Ek Oankar Akal Sahai,
On this issue Nihungs and Kala Afghana are on the same side.Yes Nihungs do Jhatka and Das also has done it.In his book maans maans kar Murkah Jhagre he did mentions about Budh dal.
Das is not supporting Kala Afghana Sahib otherwise as Das is ready with one antidote to his saying Vichitar Natak is not as per Gurmat.Today das would have pasted it but oculd not get time as Das was busy with one muslim brother ,who wrote ill of Panth.Kala Afghana Sahib can be treated some other day.
coming back to another reason for Das not agreeing to Kala Afghana Sahib is regarding his adverse comments towards Damdami Taksal,a university,Set by Guru himself.So brother Plamba will give an incite for book by Kala Afghan Ji regarding Meating eating being supported in Adi Guru Darbar.
Regarding Dasham Guru Darbar,in Vachitar Natak Guru himselfs writes of hunting ungulates.
There are still many posts about the one which tells about meat for or against.
Coming bach to Nihungs,In the book of Suraj Prakash by Chura mani Kavi Santookh singh Ji or writing of bhai veer singh Ji(Both have Taksali connection) meat is not a tobbo for Sikhs.Being Amritdhari as per Akal Takhat also eating meat is OK but eating Halal is not OK but in nihungs even use of Alchohal ,opium or cannbis are not forbbiddan and that like a medicine.
Coming again for meat issue,There are many types of Gurmat Yogis posture for which there is a deit code.As per it only light food is to be taken.This means rich diet like peanut,dry fruit ,greasy food,oily food is to avoided,And meat is one of that.So in that type of way only meat is forbiddan.
A Sikh ,who is above Lakh Chaurais is above sins(PaaP) and good deeds(punya) as they doen by human beings but in truth it is God who does all.So meat is not allowed in many a part of Sikhs just as any other veg food to control deit for some yogic work thats it and thats all.but there is no sin or good deeds attach to it.A Khalsa is above this and anyone who is still bothered with it is yet to be Khalsa.
Das only wanted to tell you all to NOT to read the book of JS Talwara,why kill Checken ,rahter read it but annalyses it and it apperas to be bundles of logic that jains use.like seeds or vegitations are devoid of life.It is against Gurubani.gurbani talks of life and not of active or non active.This means that a person who cannot mve should be killed?
Eating vegtable is like sleeping with wife while eating meat is like sleeping with *****.So this means that wife is not alive and ***** has a life?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1680
Das is only doing work on two whcih he did not do yet which are the verse Talwara has misquoted
rwmklI mhlw 4 ] (881-13)
raamkalee mehlaa 4.
Raamkalee, Fourth Mehl:
jy vf Bwg hovih vf myry jn imlidAw iFl n lweIAY ] (881-13, rwmklI, mÚ 4)
jay vad bhaag hoveh vad mayray jan mildi-aaN dhil na laa-ee-ai.
If I am blessed with supreme high destiny, I will meet the humble servants of the Lord, without delay.
hir jn AMimRq kuMt sr nIky vfBwgI iqqu nwvweIAY ]1] (881-14, rwmklI, mÚ 4)
har jan amrit kunt sar neekay vadbhaagee *** naavaa-ee-ai. ||1||
The Lord's humble servants are pools of ambrosial nectar; by great good fortune, one bathes in them. ||1||
rwm mo kau hir jn kwrY lweIAY ] (881-15, rwmklI, mÚ 4)
raam mo ka-o har jan kaarai laa-ee-ai.
O Lord, let me work for the humble servants of the Lord.
hau pwxI pKw pIsau sMq AwgY pg mil mil DUir muiK lweIAY ]1] rhwau ] (881-15, rwmklI, mÚ 4)
ha-o paanee pakhaa peesa-o sant aagai pag mal mal Dhoor mukh laa-ee-ai. ||1|| rahaa-o.
I carry water, wave the fan and grind the corn for them; I massage and wash their feet. I apply the dust of their feet to my forehead. ||1||Pause||
hir jn vfy vfy vf aUcy jo sqgur myil imlweIAY ] (881-16, rwmklI, mÚ 4)
har jan vaday vaday vad oochay jo satgur mayl milaa-ee-ai.
The Lord's humble servants are great, very great, the greatest and most exalted; they lead us to meet the True Guru.
sqgur jyvfu Avru n koeI imil sqgur purK iDAweIAY ]2] (881-16, rwmklI, mÚ 4)
satgur jayvad avar na ko-ee mil satgur purakh Dhi-aa-ee-ai. ||2||
No one else is as great as the True Guru; meeting the True Guru, I meditate on the Lord, the Primal Being. ||2||
sqgur srix pry iqn pwieAw myry Twkur lwj rKweIAY ] (881-17, rwmklI, mÚ 4)
satgur saran paray tin paa-i-aa mayray thaakur laaj rakhaa-ee-ai.
Those who seek the Sanctuary of the True Guru find the Lord. My Lord and Master saves their honor.
ieik ApxY suAwie Awie bhih gur AwgY ijau bgul smwiD lgweIAY ]3] (881-18, rwmklI, mÚ 4)
ik apnai su-aa-ay aa-ay baheh gur aagai ji-o bagul samaaDh lagaa-ee-ai. ||3||
Some come for their own purposes, and sit before the Guru; they pretend to be in Samaadhi, like storks with their eyes closed. ||3||
bgulw kwg nIc kI sMgiq jwie krMg ibKU muiK lweIAY ] (881-18, rwmklI, mÚ 4)
bagulaa kaag neech kee sangat jaa-ay karang bikhoo mukh laa-ee-ai.
Associating with the wretched and the lowly, like the stork and the crow, is like feeding on a carcass of poison.
nwnk myil myil pRB sMgiq imil sMgiq hMsu krweIAY ]4]4] (881-19, rwmklI, mÚ 4)
naanak mayl mayl parabh sangat mil sangat hans karaa-ee-ai. ||4||4||
Nanak: O God, unite me with the Sangat, the Congregation. United with the Sangat, I will become a swan. ||4||4||
here look at the second last line above.It is stateing that actually doing any sort of shamming with Guru is like eating of Filthy carcass by eagert or crow.Eagert(Bgula) also eats veg food.so does it makes veg food unedible.
Karang means carcass taken as whole and Vikh means poison or filth(Vishtha) so crows do eat such thing which man does not eat.It is more giving by Example Guru Ji are stateing us to not to Shame in front of Guru and any attempt to drag it to ritualism is anti Gurmat.
Karnag Bikh or Filthy/poisionous Carcass does not represent meat but dead animal eaten by birds but that birds are also not bad but realy bad is who shams.
Second
As follows
:
<> siqgur pRswid ] (723-13)
ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
Kwk nUr krdM Awlm dunIAwie ] (723-13, iqlµg, mÚ 5)
khaak noor kardaN aalam dunee-aa-ay.
The Lord infused His Light into the dust, and created the world, the universe.
Asmwn ijmI drKq Awb pYdwieis Kudwie ]1] (723-14, iqlµg, mÚ 5)
asmaan jimee darkhat aab paidaa-is khudaa-ay. ||1||
The sky, the earth, the trees, and the water - all are the Creation of the Lord. ||1||
bMdy csm dIdM Pnwie ] (723-14, iqlµg, mÚ 5)
banday chasam deedaN fanaa-ay.
O human being, whatever you can see with your eyes, shall perish.
dunˆØIAw murdwr KurdnI gwPl hvwie ] rhwau ] (723-14, iqlµg, mÚ 5)
duneeN-aa murdaar khurdanee gaafal havaa-ay. rahaa-o.
The world eats dead carcasses, living by neglect and greed. ||Pause||
(So here being oblivious to God is actual eating of Dead,it is mark of poor social staus but used here for spritual purposes)
gYbwn hYvwn hrwm kusqnI murdwr bKorwie ] (723-15, iqlµg, mÚ 5)
gaibaan haivaan haraam kustanee murdaar bakhoraa-ay.
Like a goblin, or a beast,Forbiddan, they kill and eat the carcasses.
Here man is termed as ghost,Beast,Haram(forbiddan),Killing(Kustan(is mazdar of Farsi stand s for to kill while Kustani is for killing) and so man is
like ghost,beast,they carry out killing,which is forbbiddan and that is like eating of dead. or to be more clear (if) killing (any one without reason) is Forbiiddan and let that person eat Dead.
as eating means Khurdan in farsi,To order ie Sitak e Amal we use bi in front of second person.
So to order one person to eat like (hey) you Eat! ie Bikhore and to more then one Bikhoreed.
So Guru is only telling to desisit from senseless killing else killing is not forbbiddan as it is said in Japu Ji Sahib
innumerable thraot cutter earn killing.. says lowly(Self humbleness Nanak) , I Can not be sacrifise to You(God as nothing even my body is not mine so how can i give it you as it is your oh God) even for once,what ever you do ,that it is good deed(This means evil deeds are done by God and they also have a good result ultimately like Jesus was crusified for good by will of God),you are always intact formless(God)Japu Ji Sahib.
idl kbj kbjw kwdro dojk sjwie ]2] (723-15, iqlµg, mÚ 5)
dil kabaj kabjaa kaadro dojak sajaa-ay. ||2||
So control your urges, or else you will be seized by the Lord, and thrown into the tortures of hell. ||2||
vlI inAwmiq ibrwdrw drbwr imlk Kwnwie ] (723-16, iqlµg, mÚ 5)
valee ni-aamat biraadaraa darbaar milak khaanaa-ay.
Your benefactors, presents, companions, courts, lands and homes
jb AjrweIlu bsqnI qb ic kwry ibdwie ]3] (723-16, iqlµg, mÚ 5)
jab ajraa-eel bastanee tab chay kaaray bidaa-ay. ||3||
- when Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death seizes you, what good will these be to you then? ||3||
hvwl mwlUmu krdM pwk Alwh ] (723-17, iqlµg, mÚ 5)
havaal maaloom kardaN paak alaah.
The Pure Lord God knows your condition.
bugo nwnk Ardwis pyis drvys bMdwh ]4]1] (723-17, iqlµg, mÚ 5)
bugo naanak ardaas pays darvays bandaah. ||4||1||
O Nanak, recite your prayer to the holy people. ||4||1||
As per Panth Prakash of Rattan Singh Bhangu,Eating murdar(dead) was forbiddan in Sikhs so the people who eat dead are not treated equally even by Nihungs of Malwa but still Gurbani says that Murdar is doing wrong Das is givneing verse which has both term meat and dead in it.
isrIrwgu mhlw 1 ] (15-9)
sireeraag mehlaa 1.
Siree Raag, First Mehl:
lbu kuqw kUVu cUhVw Tig KwDw murdwru ] (15-9, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
lab kutaa koorh choohrhaa thag khaaDhaa murdaar.
Greed is a dog; falsehood is a filthy street-sweeper. Cheating is eating a rotting carcass.
pr inMdw pr mlu muK suDI Agin k®oDu cMfwlu ] (15-10, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
par nindaa par mal mukh suDhee agan kroDh chandaal.
Slandering others is putting the filth of others into your own mouth. The fire of anger is the outcaste who burns dead bodies at the crematorium.
rs ks Awpu slwhxw ey krm myry krqwr ]1] (15-10, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
ras kas aap salaahnaa ay karam mayray kartaar. ||1||
I am caught in these tastes and flavors, and in self-conceited praise. These are my actions, O my Creator! ||1||
bwbw bolIAY piq hoie ] (15-11, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
baabaa bolee-ai pat ho-ay.
O Baba, speak only that which will bring you honor.
aUqm sy dir aUqm khIAih nIc krm bih roie ]1] rhwau ] (15-11, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
ootam say dar ootam kahee-ahi neech karam bahi ro-ay. ||1|| rahaa-o.
They alone are good, who are judged good at the Lord's Door. Those with bad karma can only sit and weep. ||1||Pause||
rsu suienw rsu rupw kwmix rsu prml kI vwsu ] (15-12, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
ras su-inaa ras rupaa kaaman ras parmal kee vaas.
The pleasures of gold and silver, the pleasures of women, the pleasure of the fragrance of sandalwood,
rsu GoVy rsu syjw mMdr rsu mITw rsu mwsu ] (15-12, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
ras ghorhay ras sayjaa mandar ras meethaa ras maas.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1680
the pleasure of horses, the pleasure of a soft bed in a palace, the pleasure of sweet treats and the pleasure of meat.
eyqy rs srIr ky kY Git nwm invwsu ]2] (15-13, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
aytay ras sareer kay kai ghat naam nivaas. ||2||
-these pleasures of the human body are so numerous; how can the Naam, the Name of the Lord, find its dwelling in the heart? ||2||
ijqu boilAY piq pweIAY so boilAw prvwxu ] (15-13, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
jit boli-ai pat paa-ee-ai so boli-aa parvaan.
Those words are acceptable, which, when spoken, bring honor.
iPkw boil ivgucxw suix mUrK mn Ajwx ] (15-14, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
fikaa bol viguchnaa sun moorakh man ajaan.
Harsh words bring only grief. Listen, O foolish and ignorant mind!
jo iqsu Bwvih sy Bly hoir ik khx vKwx ]3] (15-14, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
jo tis bhaaveh say bhalay hor ke kahan vakhaan. ||3||
Those who are pleasing to Him are good. What else is there to be said? ||3||
iqn miq iqn piq iqn Dnu plY ijn ihrdY rihAw smwie ] (15-15, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
tin mat tin pat tin Dhan palai jin hirdai rahi-aa samaa-ay.
Wisdom, honor and wealth are in the laps of those whose hearts remain permeated with the Lord.
iqn kw ikAw swlwhxw Avr suAwilau kwie ] (15-16, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
tin kaa ki-aa salaahnaa avar su-aali-o kaa-ay.
What praise can be offered to them? What other adornments can be bestowed upon them?
nwnk ndrI bwhry rwcih dwin n nwie ]4]4] (15-16, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
naanak nadree baahray raacheh daan na naa-ay. ||4||4||
O Nanak, those who lack the Lord's Glance of Grace cherish neither charity nor the Lord's Name. ||4||4||
why Das is annyed with Talwara Sahib is that if Sikhs have not to kill the living beings then this means that all People who killed and died to get Khalsa Raj were sinners or Papi or when say das may kill an enemy in battle field then das is a sinner.
Coming to AKJ,Das knows that Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh Ji were Brahm Gyani.Some of his writings were his before becoming Brah Gyani,Before his departure to Sach Khand we even did an edition of Dasham Granth Ji.It was without Hiqayats and Triya Chritars as they were complex so he was to do a research on it but he did not live long to complete it.Anyway his way of getting Brahm Gyan passes via strict code of conduct.It means lots of rituals and strict discipline and this includes the tendency of not taking meat(a Rajsik or Matterialistic food).his way is correct and when many AKJ people obtain Brahm Gyan via this way that also is OK BUT
This does not means that other Sikhs are not knowing the truth or they can not reach Akal.As Akal by self chooses us all,whom so ever he wants to give salvation.This can be stone worshipper Dhanna or meat eating Shams Tabreez or Shek Farid Sahib.
so to see how Jhtaka is done and fact about it visit the site below
http://www.shastarvidiya.org/htmls/chatka_introduction.html
Das here also want to put another view of his that being from Nirmala side to his type in general eating meat is forbbiddan but in some profession and to one who live in household life it is allowed.
Das did undergo some class of Martial arts from Budha Dal and understand there views.
Das keeps on discussing many a matters with Reformers or missioanries of Kala Afghana type and in fact many views regarding opposition to ritualism in daily life are same as per as Nihungs and Kala Afghana side are concerend
But Lastly Das also wants to say that Das have many friends who are from AKJ and they are better then his brothers.And Das also understand them as better Sikh then Das himself.And AKJ as heart of Sikh Panth.
But by meat eating Das does not think that a person is no longer a Sikh.It is true with Halal meat but not with other meats.
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