What is a Real Sant?

Sunjeet Singh · #1 (**permalink**) 24-Jun-2012, 12:29 PM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa,
Waheguru ji kee fateh,

I'm not sure if im posting this in the right thread, since I'm new to this site, butttt......

What makes the difference between a normal person and a sant? Like, what are

the qualities of a sant, and the things that make them stand out from normal
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/questions-and-answers/38706-what-is-a-real-sant.html

people like me and you. I'm looking for some real deep answers, something

that isn't so obvious and easy to just blurt out, because I'm looking towards

improving myself to become a better person and a better sikh, and just
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38706

improving as much as i can as a overall person. And hopefully anybody else

who reads this thread and the answers will also gain something out of it too.

arshi · #2 (**permalink**) 24-Jun-2012, 13:40 PM

Excellent question Sunjeet ji

Please refer to Ang 1357 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji where Guru Ji record six qualties of an elightened person. I started translating these in my own words a while ago but have not quite completed the task. Could do so for you later if you are a little patient. I am sure other more enlightened persons would respond in due course.

<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; mso-yfti-tbllook: 480; mso-padding-alt: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" class=MsoTableGrid border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 0; mso-yfti-firstrow: yes"><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 442.8pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-TOP: 0cm" vAlign=top width=590>ਮੰਤ੍ਰੰ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੰ ਧ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਨੰ ਸਰਬਤ੍ਰ ਪੂਰਨਹ॥
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</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 1; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes"><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 442.8pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-TOP: 0cm" vAlign=top width=590>mantra<SUP>N</SUP> raam raam naama<SUP>N</SUP> Dha-yaana sarbatar poornah. (1357).
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Rajinder Singh 'Arshi'

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Gyani Jarnail Singh · #3 (**permalink**) 24-Jun-2012, 13:48 PM

Guru Arjun ji writes...Bhaag Hoaa GUR-SANT milayah...and this means the GURU SAHIB.. Guru ramdass Ji...(then)...and Guru Granth sahib ji today.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38706
The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has ALL the qualities of a GURMUKH, SANT, GURU, SATGURU...and NONE of the inadequacies of a HUMAN.
Bhai Gurdass Ji calls Guru nanak Ji..GURMUKH...so all these are really Higher persons than you and me...but we cna all aspire towards those lofty heights..lofty ideals...as the word GUR-SIKH implies...

japjisahib04 · #4 (**permalink**) 24-Jun-2012, 18:36 PM

Yes our intermediatary is Gur Prasad Sabd Guru. Accepting anyone other than sabd guru will lead us nowhere.
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Mohinder Singh Sahni

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #5 (**permalink**) 24-Jun-2012, 18:57 PM

Guru Arjun Ji Sahib clearly directs us.."MANUKH KI SEWA BIRTHEE JAAN...." Nothing could be clearer or more transparent than THAT...SEWA of ONLY the SHABAD..the BANNI that is GURU is WORTHY..alll else is BIRTHEE..BEARTH..WASTE of time...

Astroboy · #6 (**permalink**) 24-Jun-2012, 21:01 PM

When I do a search with the word 'Saint', all I get is references from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji of WHO ISN'T A SANT.

Kanwaljit Singh · #7 (**permalink**) 25-Jun-2012, 03:28 AM

Har Har Sant Jana Ki Jiwan

ਸਾਰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Saarang, Fifth Mehl:

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਕੀ ਜੀਵਨਿ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38706
The Lord, Har, Har, is the life of the humble Saints.

ਬਿਖੈ ਰਸ ਭੋਗ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਰਸੁ ਪੀਵਨਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Instead of enjoying corrupt pleasures, they drink in the Ambrosial Essence of the Name of the Lord, the Ocean of Peace. ||1||Pause||

ਸੰਚਨਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਧਨੁ ਰਤਨਾ ਮਨ ਤਨ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਸੀਵਨਿ ॥
They gather up the priceless wealth of the Lord's Name, and weave it into the fabric of their mind and body.

ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗ ਰਾਂਗ ਭਏ ਮਨ ਲਾਲਾ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਰਸ ਖੀਵਨਿ ॥੧॥
Imbued with the Lord's Love, their minds are dyed in the deep crimson color of devotional love; they are intoxicated with the sublime essence of the Lord's Name. ||1||
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ਜਿਉ ਮੀਨਾ ਜਲ ਸਿਉ ਉਰਝਾਨੋ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸੰਗਿ ਲੀਵਨਿ ॥
As the fish is immersed in water, they are absorbed in the Lord's Name.

ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤ ਚਾਤ੍ਰਿਕ ਕੀ ਨਿਆਈ ਹਰਿ ਬੂੰਦ ਪਾਨ ਸੁਖ ਥੀਵਨਿ ॥੨॥੬੮॥੯੧॥
O Nanak, the Saints are like the rain-birds; they are comforted, drinking in the drops of the Lord's Name.

Luckysingh · #8 (**permalink**) 25-Jun-2012, 06:12 AM

On p319, Guru Arjan Devji
ਜਿਨਾ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਨ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾਂ ਮਨਿ ਮੰਤੁ ॥

Jinā sās girās na visrai har nāmāŉ man manṯ.

Those who do not forget the Lord, with each breath and morsel of food, whose minds are filled with the Mantra of the Lord's Name -

ਧੰਨੁ ਸਿ ਸੇਈ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਪੂਰਨੁ ਸੋਈ ਸੰਤੁ ॥੧॥

Ḏẖan sė se▫ī nānkā pūran so▫ī sanṯ. ||1||

they alone are blessed; O Nanak, they are the perfect Saints. ||1||

Then on p 392 in another shabad or hymn

Aasaa, Fifth Mehl:

ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਨੈ ॥

Āṯẖ pahar nikat kar jānai.

Twenty-four hours a day, he knows the Lord to be near at hand;

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਾ ਕੀਆ ਮੀਠਾ ਮਾਨੈ ॥
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Parabẖ kā kī▫ā mīṯẖā mānai.

he surrenders to the Sweet Will of God.

ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੰਤਨ ਆਧਾਰੁ ॥

Ėk nām sanṯan āḏẖār.

The One Name is the Support of the Saints;

ਹੋਇ ਰਹੇ ਸਭ ਕੀ ਪਗ ਛਾਰੁ ॥੧॥

Ho▫e rahe sabẖ kī pag cẖẖār. ||1||

they remain the dust of the feet of all. ||1||

ਸੰਤ ਰਹਤ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ॥

Sanṯ rahaṯ sunhu mere bẖā▫ī.

Listen, to the way of life of the Saints, O my Siblings of Destiny;

ਉਆ ਕੀ ਮਹਿਮਾ ਕਥਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

U▫ā kī mahimā kathan na jā▫ī. ||1|| rahā▫o.

their praises cannot be described. ||1||Pause||

ਵਰਤਣਿ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ ॥

varṯaṇ jā kai keval nām.

Their occupation is the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

ਅਨਦ ਰੂਪ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਬਿਸ੍ਰਾਮ ॥

Anaḏ rūp kīrṯan bisrām.

The Kirtan, the Praise of the Lord, the embodiment of bliss, is their rest.

ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਤ੍ਰੁ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨੈ ॥

Miṯar saṯar jā kai ek samānai.

Friends and enemies are one and the same to them.

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਅਪੁਨੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਜਾਨੈ ॥੨॥

Parabẖ apune bin avar na jānai. ||2||

They know of no other than God. ||2||

ਕੋਟਿ ਕੋਟਿ ਅਘ ਕਾਟਨਹਾਰਾ ॥

Kot kot agẖ kataṇhārā.

They erase millions upon millions of sins.

ਦੁਖ ਦੂਰਿ ਕਰਨ ਜੀਅ ਕੇ ਦਾਤਾਰਾ ॥
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Ḏukẖ ḏūr karan jī▫a ke ḏāṯārā.

They dispel suffering; they are givers of the life of the soul.

ਸੂਰਬੀਰ ਬਚਨ ਕੇ ਬਲੀ ॥

Sūrbīr bacẖan ke balī.

They are so brave; they are men of their word.

ਕਉਲਾ ਬਪੁਰੀ ਸੰਤੀ ਛਲੀ ॥੩॥

Ka▫ulā bapurī sanṯī cẖẖalī. ||3||

The Saints have enticed Maya herself. ||3||

ਤਾ ਕਾ ਸੰਗੁ ਬਾਛਹਿ ਸੁਰਦੇਵ ॥

Ŧā kā sang bācẖẖėh surḏev.

Their company is cherished even by the gods and the angels.

ਅਮੋਘ ਦਰਸੁ ਸਫਲ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ॥

Amogẖ ḏaras safal jā kī sev.

Blessed is their Darshan, and fruitful is their service.

ਕਰ ਜੋੜਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਰੇ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ॥

Kar joṛ Nānak kare arḏās.

With his palms pressed together, Nanak offers his prayer:

ਮੋਹਿ ਸੰਤਹ ਟਹਲ ਦੀਜੈ ਗੁਣਤਾਸਿ ॥੪॥੩੭॥੮੮॥

Mohi sanṯėh tahal ḏījai guṇṯās. ||4||37||88||

O Lord, Treasure of Excellence, please bless me with the service of the Saints. ||4||37||88||

Now the translation of 'saint' is used quite often and it does sometimes appear a little loose.
Personally, I think of such saint or sant (from what Guru Arjan ji says) as someone who is Enlightened, Wise, Knowledgable, Lives by the word of the shabad, speaks and talks the word as well, infact all words uttered by such beings are pure gurmatt.-If any of these qualities are NOT there, then I don't personally regard such as a sant.

This is my personal definition of a sant and I am sorry to say that what the majority of sangat call 'sants' ie. the sant ragees who go around as heads of their little groups..etc..- I simply regard as 'preachers' even though they may use the abbreviation and title of 'sant' before their name, but what they do mostly is katha and preach.
I mean one just has to look at a collection of kirtan and katha CD's and you will see SO MANY with Sant so and so, Sant.....So,so .so from SO so Village or town..
-I'm sorry, if some may be offended, but this is how I feel about using such a title or word as 'sant'.
In this day, we regard such as sant, only to learn or hear later that such sant did this and did that or took this much money..blah...blah...gossip..they are just as manmukh as the guy next door......

To use such a pure and strong gurmatt word to describe a person that considers their own preaching better than others, or someone that comes across as they are more closer to the lord than you, I don't feel it appropriate to use such description for the said person.

Like I say, this view may offend many out there, but the words above by Guru Arjun, shouldn't be taken lightly.

Waheguru
Lucky Singh

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #9 (**permalink**) 25-Jun-2012, 06:37 AM

When even a little "water" is added to MILK..we call it Kachee Lassee.....thats whats used to wash floors as well and also to wash the cremation block after the ashes of the departed have been collected/wash his bone fragments etc- (Hindu practices )....
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YET the Most Heavenly MILK..the CREAM of Human Society..known as "SAINT" ( from the qualities described in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji one can easily arrive at this definition)...even those with just a DASH of WHITE (0.1% Milk) are also called Sant Ji..Brahmgyani Ji..mahapurash ji..Waddeh baba Ji Sri 108 Ji, Vidya Maartand Ji etc etc etc. Yes Jios..the Modern day USAGE of the word SANT is totally OUT. Solid PROOF of this is the total LACK of "Sant Ji, Brahmgyani Ji, mahapurahs Ji Sri 108 jis etc etc DURING GURU TIMES..and even until 1925. After 1925, the SANTS grew EXPOTENTIALLY as Mushrooms after a Rain Shower..until TODAY there are way MORE "SANTS" than SIKHS. WE have seen so much Kachee Lassi that we have forgotten what 100% MILK is !!!japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:japposa tnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwahegu ru: