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What is a Real Sant?

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by Sunjeet Singh, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. Sunjeet Singh

    Sunjeet Singh
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    Waheguru ji ka khalsa,
    Waheguru ji kee fateh,

    I'm not sure if im posting this in the right thread, since I'm new to this site, butttt......

    What makes the difference between a normal person and a sant? Like, what are

    the qualities of a sant, and the things that make them stand out from normal

    people like me and you. I'm looking for some real deep answers, something

    that isn't so obvious and easy to just blurt out, because I'm looking towards

    improving myself to become a better person and a better sikh, and just

    improving as much as i can as a overall person. And hopefully anybody else

    who reads this thread and the answers will also gain something out of it too.
     
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  3. arshi

    arshi United Kingdom
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    Excellent question Sunjeet ji

    Please refer to Ang 1357 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji where Guru Ji record six qualties of an elightened person. I started translating these in my own words a while ago but have not quite completed the task. Could do so for you later if you are a little patient. I am sure other more enlightened persons would respond in due course.

    ਮੰਤ੍ਰੰ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੰ ਧ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਨੰ ਸਰਬਤ੍ਰ ਪੂਰਨਹ

    raam raam naama Dha-yaana sarbatar poornah. (1357).

    Rajinder Singh 'Arshi'
     
  4. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Guru Arjun ji writes...Bhaag Hoaa GUR-SANT milayah...and this means the GURU SAHIB.. Guru ramdass Ji...(then)...and Guru Granth sahib ji today.
    The SGGS has ALL the qualities of a GURMUKH, SANT, GURU, SATGURU...and NONE of the inadequacies of a HUMAN.
    Bhai Gurdass Ji calls Guru nanak Ji..GURMUKH...so all these are really Higher persons than you and me...but we cna all aspire towards those lofty heights..lofty ideals...as the word GUR-SIKH implies...
     
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  5. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    Yes our intermediatary is Gur Prasad Sabd Guru. Accepting anyone other than sabd guru will lead us nowhere.
    Mohinder Singh Sahni
     
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  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Guru Arjun Ji Sahib clearly directs us.."MANUKH KI SEWA BIRTHEE JAAN...." Nothing could be clearer or more transparent than THAT...SEWA of ONLY the SHABAD..the BANNI that is GURU is WORTHY..alll else is BIRTHEE..BEARTH..WASTE of time...
     
  7. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    When I do a search with the word 'Saint', all I get is references from SGGS of WHO ISN'T A SANT.
     
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  8. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    Har Har Sant Jana Ki Jiwan

    ਸਾਰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
    Saarang, Fifth Mehl:

    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਕੀ ਜੀਵਨਿ ॥
    The Lord, Har, Har, is the life of the humble Saints.

    ਬਿਖੈ ਰਸ ਭੋਗ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਰਸੁ ਪੀਵਨਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    Instead of enjoying corrupt pleasures, they drink in the Ambrosial Essence of the Name of the Lord, the Ocean of Peace. ||1||Pause||

    ਸੰਚਨਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਧਨੁ ਰਤਨਾ ਮਨ ਤਨ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਸੀਵਨਿ ॥
    They gather up the priceless wealth of the Lord's Name, and weave it into the fabric of their mind and body.

    ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗ ਰਾਂਗ ਭਏ ਮਨ ਲਾਲਾ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਰਸ ਖੀਵਨਿ ॥੧॥
    Imbued with the Lord's Love, their minds are dyed in the deep crimson color of devotional love; they are intoxicated with the sublime essence of the Lord's Name. ||1||

    ਜਿਉ ਮੀਨਾ ਜਲ ਸਿਉ ਉਰਝਾਨੋ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸੰਗਿ ਲੀਵਨਿ ॥
    As the fish is immersed in water, they are absorbed in the Lord's Name.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤ ਚਾਤ੍ਰਿਕ ਕੀ ਨਿਆਈ ਹਰਿ ਬੂੰਦ ਪਾਨ ਸੁਖ ਥੀਵਨਿ ॥੨॥੬੮॥੯੧॥
    O Nanak, the Saints are like the rain-birds; they are comforted, drinking in the drops of the Lord's Name.
     
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  9. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    On p319, Guru Arjan Devji
    ਜਿਨਾ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾਂ ਮਨਿ ਮੰਤੁ

    Jinā sās girās na visrai har nāmāʼn man manṯ.

    Those who do not forget the Lord, with each breath and morsel of food, whose minds are filled with the Mantra of the Lord's Name -


    ਧੰਨੁ ਸਿ ਸੇਈ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਪੂਰਨੁ ਸੋਈ ਸੰਤੁ ॥੧॥

    Ḏẖan sė se▫ī nānkā pūran so▫ī sanṯ. ||1||

    they alone are blessed; O Nanak, they are the perfect Saints. ||1||

    Then on p 392 in another shabad or hymn

    Aasaa, Fifth Mehl:


    ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਨੈ

    Āṯẖ pahar nikat kar jānai.

    Twenty-four hours a day, he knows the Lord to be near at hand;


    ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਾ ਕੀਆ ਮੀਠਾ ਮਾਨੈ

    Parabẖ kā kī▫ā mīṯẖā mānai.

    he surrenders to the Sweet Will of God.


    ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੰਤਨ ਆਧਾਰੁ

    Ėk nām sanṯan āḏẖār.

    The One Name is the Support of the Saints;


    ਹੋਇ ਰਹੇ ਸਭ ਕੀ ਪਗ ਛਾਰੁ ॥੧॥

    Ho▫e rahe sabẖ kī pag cẖẖār. ||1||

    they remain the dust of the feet of all. ||1||


    ਸੰਤ ਰਹਤ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ

    Sanṯ rahaṯ sunhu mere bẖā▫ī.

    Listen, to the way of life of the Saints, O my Siblings of Destiny;


    ਉਆ ਕੀ ਮਹਿਮਾ ਕਥਨੁ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ

    U▫ā kī mahimā kathan na jā▫ī. ||1|| rahā▫o.

    their praises cannot be described. ||1||Pause||


    ਵਰਤਣਿ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ

    varṯaṇ jā kai keval nām.

    Their occupation is the Naam, the Name of the Lord.


    ਅਨਦ ਰੂਪ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਬਿਸ੍ਰਾਮ

    Anaḏ rūp kīrṯan bisrām.

    The Kirtan, the Praise of the Lord, the embodiment of bliss, is their rest.


    ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਤ੍ਰੁ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨੈ

    Miṯar saṯar jā kai ek samānai.

    Friends and enemies are one and the same to them.


    ਪ੍ਰਭ ਅਪੁਨੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਜਾਨੈ ॥੨॥

    Parabẖ apune bin avar na jānai. ||2||

    They know of no other than God. ||2||


    ਕੋਟਿ ਕੋਟਿ ਅਘ ਕਾਟਨਹਾਰਾ

    Kot kot agẖ kataṇhārā.

    They erase millions upon millions of sins.


    ਦੁਖ ਦੂਰਿ ਕਰਨ ਜੀਅ ਕੇ ਦਾਤਾਰਾ

    Ḏukẖ ḏūr karan jī▫a ke ḏāṯārā.

    They dispel suffering; they are givers of the life of the soul.


    ਸੂਰਬੀਰ ਬਚਨ ਕੇ ਬਲੀ

    Sūrbīr bacẖan ke balī.

    They are so brave; they are men of their word.


    ਕਉਲਾ ਬਪੁਰੀ ਸੰਤੀ ਛਲੀ ॥੩॥

    Ka▫ulā bapurī sanṯī cẖẖalī. ||3||

    The Saints have enticed Maya herself. ||3||


    ਤਾ ਕਾ ਸੰਗੁ ਬਾਛਹਿ ਸੁਰਦੇਵ

    Ŧā kā sang bācẖẖėh surḏev.

    Their company is cherished even by the gods and the angels.


    ਅਮੋਘ ਦਰਸੁ ਸਫਲ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ

    Amogẖ ḏaras safal jā kī sev.

    Blessed is their Darshan, and fruitful is their service.


    ਕਰ ਜੋੜਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਰੇ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ

    Kar joṛ Nānak kare arḏās.

    With his palms pressed together, Nanak offers his prayer:


    ਮੋਹਿ ਸੰਤਹ ਟਹਲ ਦੀਜੈ ਗੁਣਤਾਸਿ ॥੪॥੩੭॥੮੮॥

    Mohi sanṯėh tahal ḏījai guṇṯās. ||4||37||88||

    O Lord, Treasure of Excellence, please bless me with the service of the Saints. ||4||37||88||


    Now the translation of 'saint' is used quite often and it does sometimes appear a little loose.
    Personally, I think of such saint or sant (from what Guru Arjan ji says) as someone who is Enlightened, Wise, Knowledgable, Lives by the word of the shabad, speaks and talks the word as well, infact all words uttered by such beings are pure gurmatt.-If any of these qualities are NOT there, then I don't personally regard such as a sant.

    This is my personal definition of a sant and I am sorry to say that what the majority of sangat call 'sants' ie. the sant ragees who go around as heads of their little groups..etc..- I simply regard as 'preachers' even though they may use the abbreviation and title of 'sant' before their name, but what they do mostly is katha and preach.
    I mean one just has to look at a collection of kirtan and katha CD's and you will see SO MANY with Sant so and so, Sant.....So,so .so from SO so Village or town..
    -I'm sorry, if some may be offended, but this is how I feel about using such a title or word as 'sant'.
    In this day, we regard such as sant, only to learn or hear later that such sant did this and did that or took this much money..blah...blah...gossip..they are just as manmukh as the guy next door......

    To use such a pure and strong gurmatt word to describe a person that considers their own preaching better than others, or someone that comes across as they are more closer to the lord than you, I don't feel it appropriate to use such description for the said person.

    Like I say, this view may offend many out there, but the words above by Guru Arjun, shouldn't be taken lightly.

    Waheguru
    Lucky Singh
     
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    #8 Luckysingh, Jun 25, 2012
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  10. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    When even a little "water" is added to MILK..we call it Kachee Lassee.....thats whats used to wash floors as well and also to wash the cremation block after the ashes of the departed have been collected/wash his bone fragments etc- (Hindu practices )....

    YET the Most Heavenly MILK..the CREAM of Human Society..known as "SAINT" ( from the qualities described in SGGS one can easily arrive at this definition)...even those with just a DASH of WHITE (0.1% Milk) are also called Sant Ji..Brahmgyani Ji..mahapurash ji..Waddeh baba Ji Sri 108 Ji, Vidya Maartand Ji etc etc etc. Yes Jios..the Modern day USAGE of the word SANT is totally OUT. Solid PROOF of this is the total LACK of "Sant Ji, Brahmgyani Ji, mahapurahs Ji Sri 108 jis etc etc DURING GURU TIMES..and even until 1925. After 1925, the SANTS grew EXPOTENTIALLY as Mushrooms after a Rain Shower..until TODAY there are way MORE "SANTS" than SIKHS. WE have seen so much Kachee Lassi that we have forgotten what 100% MILK is !!!japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:
     
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  11. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    Solid point Gyani ji! :)
     
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  12. Navdeep88

    Navdeep88 Canada
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    Sunmeet Singh Ji,

    I think you're right on the Money by aspiring to " be a better person and a better sikh", that's all that Counts, I don't think God CARES that you Aspire to be Something you're Not. Just try to be Good, & God Rewards those efforts, that diligence. Perhaps not in the way we want, but there is something to be said about direct Karma in this Lifetime, just try to be a Nice Person.
     
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  13. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Not just "nice"..try and be a GUR-MUKH...with qualities that enable you to FACE (mukh) the GURU...and not do what will cause you to lower your eyes, look down..or turn your face away form the GURU...each one of us SIKHS..is already a GUR-SIKH....we all just need the GUR part in our Daily LIVES....to become WHOLE !!
     
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  14. Sunjeet Singh

    Sunjeet Singh
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    Thats perfect...exactly what im looking for...thank all of you guys for your seva, but please feel free to keep throwing out ideas because any good advice will help me or anyone else reading the post :)
     
  15. sid

    sid
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    a real saint follows the path of truth and his ultimate aim is to spread permanent peace all over the world.
     
  16. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    ALL SIKHS do THAT....ever since Guru nanak ji taught us from 1469 onwards...and Guru Gobind Singh ji gave us the Mandatory Uniform so all peoples will recognize us as what we are..SAINT SOLDIERS.
     
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  17. arshi

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    Gyani ji

    Gurfateh ji

    My immediate response to Sunnit’s question was that “it was an excellent question”, not just because of the question itself but that it came from one so young. I wish I could have asked such discerning questions even when I was twice that age.

    Therefore any reply to the question must be measured and structured in a way that is commensurate with a young and an impressionable mind. I am not normally the first to respond to a thread but this young man deserves all the attention we can give.

    The responses so far have been very good. I could not help but chuckle when you wrote:

    It reminded me of a popular English saying “too many chiefs not enough Indians”. It is so true that we hear of a new baba (sant) nearly every week. It is impossible to know who is genuine even at the level of a mere Gursikh (leave alone a baba) without the guidance of Gurbani. Maskeen ji once recorded a commentary on the shabd I pointed out in my earlier post re: the six attributes (Ang 13 57) …….I notice a lot of unwanted characters/phonetics in that post – it was fine when I posted it ???...wonder what happened….. I remember him saying that in his entire life he had not come across a single person who matches the six qualities mentioned in the shabd. Neither have I, for that matter, although I have briefly come across two very enlightened individuals, but what was their spiritual status only the Lord knows. I have never been close to any present day sants or babas.

    However, all this is not to deny the good work a few individuals are doing. It is sometimes the sangat’s fault that it keeps bestowing these titles, not to mention the copycat ‘matha taikking’, which eventually leads to such elevated labels. I have quite a few anecdotes I can share in this respect.

    Running out of time but intend to continue, hopefully, with some more points which Sunnit ji may find helpful.

    Sincerely

    Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’
     
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  18. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    Why worry my brother about who is a true Sant when by studying and understanding Bani you can be a Sant yourself?

    The only problem with trying to identify a Sant nowadays is that "ittt chaakh-o thay Sant nikaal jaandhaa!"

    We have Flunay wala Sant, Timkaraay wala Sant, I am just waiting for Vodafone-wala Sant!!! :)
     
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  19. jasbirkaleka

    jasbirkaleka India
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    Gyani Jarnail Singh ji, with all due respects,terms"SANT" and "SAINT" have very different connotations. There is no concept of a SAINT or SAINTHOOD in Indian philosophy.
     
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  20. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Gyani Ji,

    I find this threadvideo relevant from another way of looking - what is and is not acceptable as Sikhs to follow.
    Ranjit Singh Dhandriyawala Kutta part 2 Truth oF This SaaDH - YouTube
     
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  21. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Veer Ji,
    I think we are all using the words interchangeably BUT only in the Sikh context. I am aware that there are various ways a "saint" is approved by the Catholic Church or maybe by some other religious authorities as well. IN that context there are NO LIVING "SAINTS"..the Church only ordains one after death and sometimes centuries after death...BUT in Sikh/Punjab context majority of sants are alive...(Using the DEAD ONES only as PROPS to make sure their own SHOPS thrive well )..and Sikhi has NO AUTHORITY equivalent to the vatican to "approve" any sant/saint/living/or dead...every sant/saint is SELF Proclaimed/or by his CHELAS. In the same way..perhaps we cna also say that a "soldier" Sipahi are NOT exactly the same ??..because a Sipahi in the Sikh Context is not just a "soldier" for he defends, he fights moral battles, is of exemplary high moral character, beneficient, kind,and ONLY FOLLOWS the CREATORS WILL rather than a human officers orders.... etc etc all of which a normal "soldier" may NOT always be...SYMANTICS..Languages, Vocabualry, Cultures, etc..are a MINEFIELD strewn with hidden land mines..even natural QUICKSAND...we always need to step carefully.."FOOK Maar maar ke pair dharna Painda Ji"...of necessity we have to use Square words to fit ROUND holes/Quadrant holes, triangular holes, pentagonal holes...He he:tablakudi:
     
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