Dilemma for Westerners?

Aman Singh · #1 (**permalink**) 31-Jul-2009, 20:45 PM

Taken elsewhere from internet...

Quote:

Having been a former Catholic who left that religion in my early teens for reasons I won't get into here, and having lived as an atheist for over 20 years, I have had very strong 'spiritual awakening' over the last two years. I've been studying comparative religion intensely for longer than that, and feel an emotional and strong connection with Sikhism.
Dilemma(pls. don't be offended): Sikhism seems the most paradoxical of all religions in that, on the one hand, it's remarkable for it's reverence for and pursuit of Truth, logic, reason, practicality, and has no conflict with science, equality for women, etc. It's not pacifistic, which is congruent with it's foundation in reality. I find it both amazingly spiritual, compassionate , and also cool-headed and ready to fight when necessary.. yes! Now -- on the other hand, from the non-Indian perspective: like too many religions, it's extremely ethnic and region-centric. Punjabi is a necessity to participate in Gurbani/Kirtan. Lacking monks and clergy, it's disorganized and lacking political direction or power. Keeping the 5 'K's is an example of 'ethnic and region centric ritual and tradition. It seems, to the Westerner, an anachronism similar to the costume and appearance of Orthodox Jews, American Amish (German origin Protestant Christians stuck in the 16th century living in Pennsylvania..), for example.

Can I become Sikh and raise my American family as Sikh, following Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and finding a local Gurdwara that will accept clean-shaven Sikhs? Do I and my family have to 'become' 18th century Punjabi in appearance.. to avoid discrimination by other Sikhs?? This is a real dilemma, pls. do not dismiss lightly.. didn't one of your Gurus predict over 900 million Khalsa one day.. but how will Sikhism grow and be 'universal' if it clings to rituals and traditions that are unacceptable to the vast majority of non-Indians. This is serious questions, pls. don't be offended. God bless you for reading this far.

Aman Singh · #2 (**permalink**) 31-Jul-2009, 20:45 PM

Taken elsewhere from internet...

Quote:

Having been a former Catholic who left that religion in my early teens for reasons I won't get into here, and having lived as an atheist for over 20 years, I have had very strong 'spiritual awakening' over the last two years. I've been studying comparative religion intensely for longer than that, and feel an emotional and strong connection with Sikhism.
Dilemma(pls. don't be offended): Sikhism seems the most paradoxical of all religions in that, on the one hand, it's remarkable for it's reverence for and pursuit of Truth, logic, reason, practicality, and has no conflict with science, equality for women, etc. It's not pacifistic, which is congruent with it's foundation in reality. I find it both amazingly spiritual, compassionate , and also cool-headed and ready to fight when necessary.. yes! Now -- on the other hand, from the non-Indian perspective: like too many religions, it's extremely ethnic and region-centric. Punjabi is a necessity to participate in Gurbani/Kirtan. Lacking monks and clergy, it's disorganized and lacking political direction or power. Keeping the 5 'K's is an example of 'ethnic and region centric ritual and tradition. It seems, to the Westerner, an anachronism similar to the costume and appearance of Orthodox Jews, American Amish (German origin Protestant Christians stuck in the 16th century living in Pennsylvania..), for example.

Can I become Sikh and raise my American family as Sikh, following Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and finding a local Gurdwara that will accept clean-shaven Sikhs? Do I and my family have to 'become' 18th century Punjabi in appearance.. to avoid discrimination by other Sikhs?? This is a real dilemma, pls. do not dismiss lightly.. didn't one of your Gurus predict over 900 million Khalsa one day.. but how will Sikhism grow and be 'universal' if it clings to rituals and traditions that are unacceptable to the vast majority of non-Indians. This is serious questions, pls. don't be offended. God bless you for reading this far.

Aman Singh · #3 (**permalink**) 31-Jul-2009, 20:45 PM

Taken elsewhere from internet...

Quote:

Having been a former Catholic who left that religion in my early teens for reasons I won't get into here, and having lived as an atheist for over 20 years, I have had very strong 'spiritual awakening' over the last two years. I've been studying comparative religion intensely for longer than that, and feel an emotional and strong connection with Sikhism.
Dilemma(pls. don't be offended): Sikhism seems the most paradoxical of all religions in that, on the one hand, it's remarkable for it's reverence for and pursuit of Truth, logic, reason, practicality, and has no conflict with science, equality for women, etc. It's not pacifistic, which is congruent with it's foundation in reality. I find it both amazingly spiritual, compassionate , and also cool-headed and ready to fight when necessary.. yes! Now -- on the other hand, from the non-Indian perspective: like too many religions, it's extremely ethnic and region-centric. Punjabi is a necessity to participate in Gurbani/Kirtan. Lacking monks and clergy, it's disorganized and lacking political direction or power. Keeping the 5 'K's is an example of 'ethnic and region centric ritual and tradition. It seems, to the Westerner, an anachronism similar to the costume and appearance of Orthodox Jews, American Amish (German origin Protestant Christians stuck in the 16th century living in Pennsylvania..), for example.

Can I become Sikh and raise my American family as Sikh, following Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and finding a local Gurdwara that will accept clean-shaven Sikhs? Do I and my family have to 'become' 18th century Punjabi in appearance.. to avoid discrimination by other Sikhs?? This is a real dilemma, pls. do not dismiss lightly.. didn't one of your Gurus predict over 900 million Khalsa one day.. but how will Sikhism grow and be 'universal' if it clings to rituals and traditions that are unacceptable to the vast majority of non-Indians. This is serious questions, pls. don't be offended. God bless you for reading this far.

harbansj24 · #4 (**permalink**) 31-Jul-2009, 23:39 PM

Aman Singh Ji,

Gurfateh

These are my personal views:

With Sikhism becoming global, it will have to adopt different languages especially English to spread Guru's message. In India for a very long period Hindi and Urdu have been used for this purpose so what is the problem if English and other languages are used? And right now are we not using English?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/new-to-sikhism/26086-dilemma-for-westerners.html

Even within families residing outside Punjab, the language of communication is often Hindi or English.

Dress has never been a problem. Men generally wear European dress along with a turban and beard neatly rolled up and pressed. They look pretty smart and women wear jeans, skirts, slacks or whatever even in Gurudwaras.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26086

The only problem appears to be Kesh and that too for men only because they need to be covered. Women do not cover their head in India other than in Gurudwaras or in presence of Granth Sahib as as a mark of respect. Turban and beard seem to be the only problem for men. Perhaps this problem also could be resolved with time.

ja58ir · #5 (**permalink**) 01-Aug-2009, 07:50 AM

Wahaguru ji ka Khalsa Wahaguru ji ka Fateh
Having born I a Sikh family I had to go through the hard time in the 1960’s but found that if you want something then it they for the taking.
As for the thought of have to keep your beard then that is not any problems as in the America they are many Sikhs how have transferred they religion for the better side.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26086
To learn to wear the turban they are Sikh Gurdwaras all over the USA just go to them and explain that you wish to learn to tie a turban they will help you with all your needs.
As for your family they can and will see that Sikhism is not only a religion but a way of life.
As for read the Nitnam you can do that in English as you wish to praise the lord it dose not matter in what language it is prayed. It is how you feel about the prayers and not the way you say them
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26086

harbansj24 · #6 (**permalink**) 01-Aug-2009, 10:37 AM

ja58ir ji,

What the anonymous person met was, that a white American wearing a wearing a turban would be queer sight in America and he would not be accepted among his peers in America both socially and at work place. And if does not wear it then he will not be accepted in local Gurdwara and by the Sikhs. That is the dilemma.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26086
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26086

This appears to be the only problem. As I have said earlier that this problem also with Guru's Grace would be straightened out with time.

I guess this is a sort of brainstorming. So as a temporary measure can this suggestion be feasible?:

The the man in his social interactions and at workplace can keep open hair or in a pigtail or in bun just like Sikh women do and the beard can be suitably be set and pressed just as Ragis do. I do find many foreign tourist in India with this fashion statement! When in a Gurudwara or with Sikh friends he can put on the turban.

Will this be acceptable?

Narayanjot Kaur · #7 (**permalink**) 01-Aug-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harbansj24

ja58ir ji,

What the anonymous person met was, that a white American wearing a wearing a turban would be queer sight in America and he would not be accepted among his peers in America both socially and at work place. And if does not wear it then he will not be accepted in local Gurdwara and by the Sikhs. That is the dilemma.

This appears to be the only problem. As I have said earlier that this problem also with Guru's Grace would be straightened out with time.

I guess this is a sort of brainstorming. So as a temporary measure can this suggestion be feasible?:

The the man in his social interactions and at workplace can keep open hair or in a pigtail or in bun just like Sikh women do and the beard can be suitably be set and pressed just as Ragis do. I do find many foreign tourist in India with this fashion statement! When in a Gurudwara or with Sikh friends he can put on the turban.

Will this be acceptable?

Harbhansj ji

I like the idea of brainstorming about this topic. It is doubtful that we ever brainstormed about this in the past.

But I do have 2 reactions. The dilemma of a turban is not such a dilemma once a person decides - OK, this is what I am going to do -- tie dastar. It is one of those dilemmas that evaporates when the individual decides to take a stand one way or the other. There are many white Sikhs who decided just that, and in spite of whatever problems come their way, persist with dastar, going about their business at home, at work, and in the community. The question of who thinks what about someone's choice to wear a turban tends to become insignificant for them. They just resolve the dilemma in terms of their personal conclusions about keeping hair, and to be consistent with the image of unshorn hair and turban that identifies a Sikh. I don't have statistics -- but there have to be more "white" Sikh males in turbans, than not in turbans, because along with a beard it is the primary way of signaling that you are a Sikh.

A thought on the side. Who started this "white" Sikh label? It has a life of its own any more. My guess on this is that just about every one who is a Sikh is on a continuum from very pale to very brown. Or am I in denial

?

My other reaction goes to your question "will this be acceptable?" No matter what the choice a person makes it won't be acceptable to someone. For example, if a man wears a turban it may please his sangat; but if his wife wears one there will be members of the sangat that think she is making an unacceptable statement.

So your original idea of using the thread to brainstorm about these dilemmas is the more fruitful way o generate interest and ideas-- as long as various readers don't miss the point -- it is about listing experiences and suggestions.

harbansj24 · #8 (**permalink**) 01-Aug-2009, 13:28 PM

Narayanjot ji,

I like your enthusiastic support for for a Sabat Surat Sikh with a turban or Dastar. I was just thinking as a way out for the problem of the anonymous Sikh in Aman Singh jis mail.

Now I will quote the experience of a distant cousin of mine who had emigrated to America in 1989. He is a talented and hardworking professional. He is a strict Sarab Lohi who knows Nit Nem and Sukhmani Sahib by heart and recites these every morning. On reaching America he posted 100s of CVs over the next 3 months and got quite a few interview calls by the not a single offer. His brother who had sponsored him told him that his kesh and turban was coming in the way. His brother had shaved off his kesh. But this guy then chose to return to India and kept his kesh. It was a great struggle those days. He was without a job for a long time. Those days the economy was not good and they were days of peak insurgency and Sikhs were looked at suspiciously. But with persistence he got a job and is now well off.

Narayanjot Kaur · #9 (**permalink**) 01-Aug-2009, 21:22 PM

Harbansj ji

Forgive me if I seemed like an extreme example of an optimist. There are some stumbling blocks in my experience and they don't quite show up in my response earlier to you.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26086

Not everything has a rosy color -- that I will admit. And I did not want to seem as if I was ignorant of the prejudice faced by Sikhs in dastar -- because I am not. My point was only that the dilemma is a dilemma as long as a person allows it to baffle them. Then decisions have to be made if a person wants to end the bewilderment and suffering.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26086

There are Sikhs who came West from East who have shaved and don't wear turbans. That was the way they solved the problem of "fitting in" and getting a job. There are Sikhs from the West who are still Western (but born in Punjabi/Sikh families) who have solved the problem too. Either they keep kesh and tie dastar or they don't. And there are Western Sikhs who converted, who for the most part keep kesh and wear turbans, as I said above, mostly the majority of this group keep kesh and wear turbans.

Each decision has its advantages and its disadvantages. There is no perfect solution. But the trials and tribulations of the "dilemma" go away once you decide --- This is it! I am going to do __________! You make a choice and understand the consequences. Keep your eye wide open. Make the adjustments that are needed. And then move on. Yes it may mean moving from West Virginia to New Mexico or California. Or it may mean working in one area of business rather than another. It may mean you go to a different gurdwara than the one you have attended for years. Or it may mean some other kind of adjustment is necessary.

But making a decision and then moving ahead in life takes much less energy than continual worry about whether other people accept you or do not accept you. And making changes is an option. That is all I can say for now. Once we put these problems behind us then we can move on to some much bigger dilemmas that face Sikhs in the West that cross national boundaries and also religious ones.

Thanks for a good discussion.