Hindu Origins of Astrology - Any Relevance to Sikhi?

The Rehit Maryada explicitly forbids consulting with soothsayers. Guru Nanaak spoke of the ever-present truth of the Divine's hukam - unknowable and firm. The Sikh view of karma is not a fatalistic view. Yet even some Sikhs, members of a truly modern religion, just like members of other faiths, continue to be attracted to astrology as a way to diagnose character and predict the future.

Astrology is spurned by science, yet Vedic astrology was and continues to be an ancient way of understanding the workings of the universal and the cosmic plan. Spending only small amounts of time, hours or minutes here and there studying, one begins to marvel at the technology if not science of this path.

Why the attraction of Sikhs to this path? When it is forbidden on the earthly plane to believe and act on it. And scorned on the spiritual plane because it is useless in our search for God? What historical and cultural reasons can be discussed?

See this link to understand how entrenched we remain in the practice of astrology.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/history-of-sikhism/17629-hindu-origins-astrology-any-relevance-sikhi.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17629

Janum-Kundli

 
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Here are a few quotes from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji regarding astrologers:-

After all their reading, the
Pandits, the religious scholars, and the astrologers argue and debate. Their intellect and understanding are *******ed; they just
don.t understand. They are filled with greed and corruption. Through 8.4 million incarnations they wander lost and confused;
through all their wandering and roaming, they are ruined. They act according to their pre-ordained destiny, which no one can
erase. || 3 || (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 27)

There are so many Pandits and
astrologers who ponder over the Vedas. They glorify their disputes and arguments, and in these controversies they continue
coming and going. Without the Guru, they are not released from their karma, although they speak and listen and preach and
explain. || 7 | (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 56)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17629

Nanak, through the Naam, greatness is obtained; through the Word of the
Guru.s Shabad, He is realized. || 8 || 5 || 22 || SIREE RAAG, THIRD MEHL: Everyone longs to be centered and balanced,
but without the Guru, no one can. The Pandits and the astrologers read and read until they grow weary, while the fanatics are
deluded by doubt. Meeting with the Guru, intuitive balance is obtained, when God, in His Will, grants His Grace. || 1 || O
Siblings of Destiny, without the Guru, intuitive balance is not obtained. Through the Word of the Shabad, intuitive peace and
poise wells up, and that True Lord is obtained. || 1 || Pause || Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 68)

The Pandits, the
religious scholars, the teachers and astrologers, and those who endlessly read the Puraanas, do not know what is within; God
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17629
is hidden deep within them. || 4 || Some penitents perform penance in the forests, and some dwell forever at sacred shrines.
The unenlightened people do not understand themselves . why have they become renunciates? || 5 || Some control their
sexual energy, and are known as celibates. But without the Guru.s Word, they are not saved, and they wander in
reincarnation. || 6 || (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 419)

All the religious scholars and astrologers read and study, and argue and shout. Who are they trying to teach? Deep within, they
are stained with the filth of emotional attachment to Maya; they deal in Maya alone. They love to deal in Maya in this world;
coming and going, they suffer in pain. The worm of poison is addicted to poison; it is immersed in manure. He does what is
pre-ordained for him; no one can erase his destiny. O Nanak, attuned to the Naam, lasting peace is found; the ignorant fools
die screaming. || 3 || (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 571)


There are more verses available.

Hi Aad ji and Begum ji
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17629

The duality remains until we know the truth.
How can not referring to artrology going to help someone know the truth that Babaji is saying. If not then better be knowlegeable.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17629

Babaji told us to be happy in param purakh's will, do we do that in any case?

I think sikhs need to open up a little. A high correlation does not necessarily mean causality !!

To Balbir Singh ji and all,

Those of us who oppose English translation for whatever reason, might have more to worry about in the future because Granth Sahib, once officially translated to English can also be translated to any language.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17629

However, I personally do not see any problem in doing so.

Read this article:
Granth Sahib to be in English
19 Oct 2007, 0121 hrs IST,TNN

AMRITSAR: Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC) on Thursday announced to translate Guru Granth Sahib in English. The decision was taken in the meeting of Dharam Parchar Committee (DPC) of SGPC.

DPC also passed a resolution condemning the efforts of Delhi Sikh Gurdwara Management Committee (DSGMC) of allegedly exporting saroop of Guru Granth Sahib.

Avtar Singh Makkar, SGPC president, said the decision has been taken to spread the philosophy of Guru Granth Sahib. He said for this purpose services of Sikh scholars - Jaswant Singh Neki and Jodh Singh - will be taken.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17629

DPC also urged jathedar of Akal Takht to take notice of the incident of sending saroop outside India by Paramjit Singh Sarna, president of DSGMC. Makkar said instead of seeking forgiveness at Akal Takht, Sarna was allegedly trying to divert the attention. A 21-member committee has also been constituted for Sikh mission, Chhattisgarh.

Respected Begum Balbir TGill -- all veer ji!

You have all spoken in very clear voices. The shabads are clear aren't they? And habits that are centuries old die hard-- so it appears.

I don't want to seem to be pointing a finger at Sikhs -- because astrology has this incredible fascination and even power over people everywhere in every religious path -- in the West and in the East. Education doesn't change things -- I know engineers who watch the planet Mercury and it's motion with great interest because the actions of Mercury presumably influence communication by mail, phone, computer, etc. I dabble in astrology -- and am a little ashamed of this.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17629
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17629

Since the Janam Kundli thread began years ago, it has been viewed over 10,000 times by SPN members and visitors. That says something?

What are the historical and cultural influences?

Balbir ji

I am having a hard time following what you say.

The topic raised is "Hindu Origins of Astrology - Any Relevance to Sikhi?"
Those who have now credited astrology to Hindus cannot claim any relevance to Sikhi.

It is pity that Ignorant have credited Many Attributes of God to Hindus. Perhaps they believe that one day God will be left for them when they give up all this way.

I thought I was basically in agreement with your point of view from Gurbani. What does
"Those who have now credited astrology to Hindus have no relevance to Sikhi" mean?

a. Anyone who says astrology began with Hindus has no relevance to Sikhi?

b. Anyone who agrees with Hindu astrology has no relevance to Sikhi?

c. Another answer - a and b were not what you meant?

I ask because when one simply makes a comment on the history of anything that doesn't change one's personal beliefs. It would just be a comment on history. For example, if someone says that Jainism is older than Sikhi it doesn't mean the person's religious beliefs are changed. I don't understand what you mean.

Actually astrology began with the Babylonians. It was the basis for their belief in Divine Government. Now that I have said that, does that change my belief in Sikhism in any way?

I don't see any agreement aad ji.

A true sikh knows the real astrology (which is neither hindu nor babylonian). It comes from his True Guru. Where is Guru Granth sahib ji forbidding anyone to know astrology. A sikh knows it on its own...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17629

Guruji is just asking the fake ones who are limited and don't know the whole to go to the True Guru and know it !!

Aadji,

Since Astrology has engulfed a wide area of influence on the human being, it was meant to be holistic science for those who had no access to modern information. Often an astrologer or palm reader would also act as a "witch doctor" to benefit the uneducated client through faith healing.

Thus became a norm to employ an astrologer - mostly fakes - to arrive at the fate of a client's health.

There's a saying in Punjabi:
"In order to cover up one lie, you have to speak a hundred more lies."

The next lie an astrologer would make is in the area of confusion - something like - there are two planetary influences in your life - one is saturn and the other is moon. It depends on the devtas of the moon to come to your rescue but because of " blah blah" their travel time can be hindered by Satan.

So the next thing a (woman) client would be asked to do is to have her body anointed with perfume oil mix with herbs. These tricks are driven by one thing - Kaam (Lust).

Of course, the more experienced a faith healer becomes, the more accurate his/her predictions can be - simply an understanding of similarities - which gives an impression of him/her being psychic.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17629
Why are these mediums in business ?
Because of ignorance of the truth.
The "instant gratification" the clients get - mainly by exciting their emotions or uplifting them to a point which makes the client temporarily forget their ordeal.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17629
Everything is psychological in nature.

So this can form a fragment of an answer which aad ji asked - relevence to Sikhi.
I would say no relevence at all to Gurmat.
But if you are confusing sikhs as a race and asking the cultural and traditional aspects, then I have no answer.

OK, let me start over.

The thread was about the historical and cultural reasons for adherence to astrology, even when it is forbidden by Rehit and Guru Nanaak said it was useless.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17629

Somehow we are going in this direction: I ask some questions and point out different angles to the topic, and the responses make it seem as if my brains are twisted.

The questions are intended to get member reactions to the topic. How did my questions get mixed up with what I may or may not believe?

This is the kind of dialog that is so typical on SPN. A major reason why I periodically lose any motivation to hang in here. Person X reads something into what Person Y said, and then gives Person Y a lecture.

I only started this because one of the SPN leaders thought it would make a good topic for the History forum; otherwise it was a dead topic for me. Anyone want to talk about history?