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Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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<blockquote data-quote="max314" data-source="post: 26639" data-attributes="member: 2817"><p>I've posted against opinions where I've been outnumbered, but the bottom line is:</p><p></p><p>1. - We come to these forums by choice, hence no matter how 'tough' it gets, it is still just a recreational activity. If it's too tough, then you just don't come.</p><p></p><p>2. - No-one has the right to impose their opinions on anyone else, nor should they attempt to enforce their opinion using insults. Even if the advocate of the opposite argument is hurling insults at you, just feel safe in the knowledge that you're at least doing your bit and that everyone can see that. Even the ones who don't say it.</p><p></p><p>3. - Relax. Take a chill pill. Your opinion isn't going anywhere. It's staying with you and won't run off just because someone says they hold a differing opinion.</p><p></p><p>So, it's all good fun. Let's try and keep it that way, shall we? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Ooh, a fellow <em>Matrix</em> fan...I like that :}{}{}:</p><p></p><p>I too am of the opinion that Guru Nanak was not 'divine'. I believe that this, in many ways, contradicts the 'virtue by example' quality of the Ten Gurus. The sacrifices they made were <em>real</em> sacrifices, and not some airy-fairy piece of magic sent from the heavens. I feel that such a belief actually belittles the incredible lives of the Ten Gurus.</p><p></p><p>Whenever Guru Nanak talks of God, he is always in awe. Some people have even gone as far to say that the Guru and God were one. I think that Guru Nanak would be the first to slap those people round their heads at such a display of stupidity. You don't talk in awe of something that you are. You talk in awe of something you are observing. This is the way in which the Granth is written.</p><p></p><p>But whilst we do indeed hold these views, it is not our place to shove it down other peoples' throats. Yeah, let them try and do it to us if they want, but that don't make no hoo-haa of a difference. No-one's gonna change their standing, so you might as well hold it with some dignity, eh? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite6" alt=":cool:" title="Cool :cool:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":cool:" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's not the scholars we are funding. We are funding the communal kitchen where everyone (and I mean literally <em>everyone</em>) can come and eat. We are funding the building where anyone who needs shelter can sleep. We are creating an environment where people of all different backgrounds can commune and socialise with families, etc and can pop into the library and read today's newspaper and chat for a bit. And when they're in the mood, they can make their way to the main prayer hall where some of the finest composed pieces of Indian classical music filled with inspirational poetry and insight and passion is being performed in a very appealing environment on floors laid with white fabrics and the Guru Granth Sahib laying at the far end underneath a beautifully-constructed quasi-shrine that - if nothing else - is at least uplifting and humbling all at the same time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Indeed. Religion has the ability to stop people thinking for themselves (and those that do are labelled <em>käfirs</em> by Muslims or <em>manmats</em> by Sikkhs...both basically mean "non-believer"), but I think that those who attempt to understand the words of the Granth properly and in their purity and with a sense of context will find that it actually contains some very deep moralistic insight.</p><p></p><p>The term <em>manmat</em> ("the mind's desire") - as I told you - has effectively come to mean the same thing to Sikkhs as the term <em>käfir</em> has to Muslims. The opposite of <em>manmat</em> is <em>gurmat</em> ("the Guru's desire").</p><p></p><p>Now, here's where it gets interesting...</p><p></p><p> So what actually <em>is</em> the Guru's desire when he looked out on a world of wife-burning, child-molesting, greed-infested, soul-destroyed, arrogant and amoral individuals (who, let's be honest, are of no shortage in today's world either:}{}{}<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />?</p><p></p><p>Well, let's see. The Guru's desire is that we live with the following:</p><p></p><p>Contentment (<em>santökh</em>), charity (<em>dhän</em>), kindness (<em>dhaya</em>), positive attitude (<em>chardih kalä</em>) and humility (<em>nimarta</em>).</p><p> </p><p>Kind of common sense, you might say...but in those days, this was a friggin' revelation. Pathetic, isn't it?</p><p></p><p>But hey, that's what it says. That's the Guru's Will. And there'snothing wrong with it! It's universal, it's everlasting.</p><p></p><p>And what is the <em>manmat</em> that people need to conquer? Why, it's the Five Thieves, of course:</p><p></p><p>Lust (<em>khäm</em>), rage (<em>krödh</em>), greed (<em>löbh</em>), attachment (<em>möh</em>), and pride (<em>hankär</em>).</p><p></p><p>The most hilarious thing, of course, is seeing that so many self-proclaimed Sikkhs are victim to these things, particularly rage, attachment and pride associated with their perspective on what their religion is. No matter how skewed their perspective or how misinformed their view, they will fight to the bitter end only to find...nothing. They were fighting for nothing. Air, perhaps. Religion is a human fabrication. Guru Nanak saw this. He even said that "there is no Hindu, there is no Muslim", and this is way before the label "Sikkh" was even conceived. This is back when the Guru was trying to <em>anti</em>-institutionalise these fabrications that were dividing mankind.</p><p></p><p>What a backtrack we've gone and done, eh?</p><p></p><p>I don't mind Sikkhism to be an institution...but it has to be an anti-institutional institution. Like how intolerance can only be sorted by being intolerant of intolerance. Same idea. And this is what the Khalsa Panth was made for. Unfortunately...people kinda...forgot why it was made in the first place...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Whilst I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make with the "artist's impression" comment, I think I should tell you that there are a number of alternative perspectives and views even on one thing. A lot of Sikkhs I know who have sorta 'disowned' Sikkhism very often are themselves unaware of what the truth behind a particular matter is. Yes, there is crap that has made it into the insitution over the years - 'tis the way of human nature, I'm afraid - but there is something very noble and very much worthy of respect at the center of it.</p><p></p><p>Believe me, I've been questioning God's purpose since the age of three and a half (I was nicknamed "Little Buddha" growing up, which used to {censored} me off, but now I take it as a bit of a complement, if only because it meant that I didn't take things at face value), and I know what Sikkhism is and what it isn't.</p><p></p><p>I know that Sikkhism started as one man's philosophy to reform a defunct and demoralised society. I know that Sikkhism changed the face of sub-continental history and that without it Hinduism would be extinct, and that India would be yet another Islamic fascist state instead of the secular democracy that it is today. I know that Sikkhism attempted to unite all human beings as one, and even <strong>if</strong> the idea of God was created for this purpose alone, then it was a noble purpose.</p><p></p><p>Also, I know that many self-proclaimed 'Sikkhs' today are not only not practicing what Guru Nanak attempted to preach, but actually have their mindset in the totally wrong place. They're like Hindus or Muslims in that their attitudes are the same, even though their 'belief systems' use different terms.</p><p></p><p>So don't take Sikkhism's worth purely on the backs of its generally misinformed following. It ain't there fault. Well, actually it is, but most people don't like to question the third-hand information that their uncle told them about what Sikkhism is as opposed to wiping their mental state clean and starting from the top.</p><p></p><p style="text-align: center"><em>"If some lucky men survive the onslaught of the third world war of atomic and hydrogen bombs, then the Sikkh religion will be the only means of guiding them."</em></p> <p style="text-align: center"><strong>Bertrand Russel</strong></p><p></p><p>Russel is referring to how the Sikkh code has the ability to reuinte and reconstute the world in a civil, democratic and secular way (remember, it was written to be such a text, and it was responsible for the cultural shift from fascism to secularism) should a third World War break out. But he was then asked that, if this religion (and I hate using that word "religion", believe me) was indeed so noble, then why did it not posess the ability to <em>prevent</em> a third World War from happening in the first place?</p><p></p><p>To this, he replied:</p><p></p><p style="text-align: center"><em>"Yes, it has the capability, but the Sikkhs have not brought out in the broad daylight, the splendid doctrines of this religion which has come into existence for the benefit of the entire mankind. This is their greatest sin and the Sikkhs cannot be freed of it."</em></p> <p style="text-align: center"><strong>Bertrand Russel</strong></p><p></p><p>And that's just it. Most people who are born into Sikkh heritage or who adopt it are simply adopting a socio-cultural hang-over that is in excess of three hundred years old. They're not looking at the principles of the religion, but are rather looking at the bells and whistles and clothes and other crap that make 'em feel like their "God's favourite"...which is just rubbish, isn't it?</p><p></p><p>The <em>actual</em> philosophy of the Granth will probably be rediscovered in generations to come when pre-ordained images of <em>maya</em> (this illusory construct that is the physical world...think <em>Matrix</em> <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite6" alt=":cool:" title="Cool :cool:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":cool:" />) are relinquished and the world is embraced in its entirety and humanity is respected in complete equality.</p><p></p><p style="text-align: center"><em>"Kabir, when you are in love with the One God, duality and alienation depart. You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald."</em></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"><strong>Guru Granth Sahib</strong></p> <p style="text-align: center"><strong>Adi Granth, p. 1365</strong></p><p></p><p><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p> <em>P.S. - And the only reason I didn't reply to KDS1980 was because I actually had no intention of posting in this thread (I tend to overlook self-perpetuating arguments with more insults than actual discussion points), but those size 1,000,000 fonts you had going on were kind of hard to avoid :}{}{}: Don't take it personally, it's just that I have other things to do than read through the whole thread :wink:</em></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><strong><span style="font-size: 15px"></span></strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><strong><span style="font-size: 15px"></span></strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><strong><span style="font-size: 15px"></span></strong><span style="font-size: 15px"><span style="font-size: 10px">This just stuck out, mainly because it is actually rather wrong.</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 15px"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 15px"><span style="font-size: 10px">Yeah, the texts were compiled <em>after</em> the death of Guru Nanak, but those words were already in writing during Guru Nanak's time. All that had to be done was to compile them into a single, static volume. It's not as though anything was re-written or re-interpreted. It was written as it was written by Nanak's scribes. He would dictate, and they would write.</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 15px"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 15px"><span style="font-size: 10px">"Granth" actually means "compilation".</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 15px"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 15px"><strong></strong></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 15px"><strong></strong></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 15px"><strong></strong><span style="font-size: 10px">He was born a Hindu, actually. And his birth was only 600 years ago. It's like saying "no-one knows what William the Conqueror looked like...so that must mean that the battle of Hastings in 1066 (way before Guru Nanak) never took place<span style="font-size: 10px">". See? Doesn't really work, does it?</span></span></span></span></p><p></p><p>Well, I'm tired now. Eyes closing, and I'm going for a run in the morning, so I'll leave it at that.</p><p></p><p>Be good :}{}{}:</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="max314, post: 26639, member: 2817"] I've posted against opinions where I've been outnumbered, but the bottom line is: 1. - We come to these forums by choice, hence no matter how 'tough' it gets, it is still just a recreational activity. If it's too tough, then you just don't come. 2. - No-one has the right to impose their opinions on anyone else, nor should they attempt to enforce their opinion using insults. Even if the advocate of the opposite argument is hurling insults at you, just feel safe in the knowledge that you're at least doing your bit and that everyone can see that. Even the ones who don't say it. 3. - Relax. Take a chill pill. Your opinion isn't going anywhere. It's staying with you and won't run off just because someone says they hold a differing opinion. So, it's all good fun. Let's try and keep it that way, shall we? ;) [SIZE=3][COLOR=black][B][/B][/COLOR][/SIZE] Ooh, a fellow [i]Matrix[/i] fan...I like that :}{}{}: I too am of the opinion that Guru Nanak was not 'divine'. I believe that this, in many ways, contradicts the 'virtue by example' quality of the Ten Gurus. The sacrifices they made were [i]real[/i] sacrifices, and not some airy-fairy piece of magic sent from the heavens. I feel that such a belief actually belittles the incredible lives of the Ten Gurus. Whenever Guru Nanak talks of God, he is always in awe. Some people have even gone as far to say that the Guru and God were one. I think that Guru Nanak would be the first to slap those people round their heads at such a display of stupidity. You don't talk in awe of something that you are. You talk in awe of something you are observing. This is the way in which the Granth is written. But whilst we do indeed hold these views, it is not our place to shove it down other peoples' throats. Yeah, let them try and do it to us if they want, but that don't make no hoo-haa of a difference. No-one's gonna change their standing, so you might as well hold it with some dignity, eh? :cool: [B][/B] It's not the scholars we are funding. We are funding the communal kitchen where everyone (and I mean literally [i]everyone[/i]) can come and eat. We are funding the building where anyone who needs shelter can sleep. We are creating an environment where people of all different backgrounds can commune and socialise with families, etc and can pop into the library and read today's newspaper and chat for a bit. And when they're in the mood, they can make their way to the main prayer hall where some of the finest composed pieces of Indian classical music filled with inspirational poetry and insight and passion is being performed in a very appealing environment on floors laid with white fabrics and the Guru Granth Sahib laying at the far end underneath a beautifully-constructed quasi-shrine that - if nothing else - is at least uplifting and humbling all at the same time. [B][/B] Indeed. Religion has the ability to stop people thinking for themselves (and those that do are labelled [i]käfirs[/i] by Muslims or [i]manmats[/i] by Sikkhs...both basically mean "non-believer"), but I think that those who attempt to understand the words of the Granth properly and in their purity and with a sense of context will find that it actually contains some very deep moralistic insight. The term [i]manmat[/i] ("the mind's desire") - as I told you - has effectively come to mean the same thing to Sikkhs as the term [i]käfir[/i] has to Muslims. The opposite of [i]manmat[/i] is [i]gurmat[/i] ("the Guru's desire"). Now, here's where it gets interesting... So what actually [i]is[/i] the Guru's desire when he looked out on a world of wife-burning, child-molesting, greed-infested, soul-destroyed, arrogant and amoral individuals (who, let's be honest, are of no shortage in today's world either:}{}{}:)? Well, let's see. The Guru's desire is that we live with the following: Contentment ([i]santökh[/i]), charity ([i]dhän[/i]), kindness ([i]dhaya[/i]), positive attitude ([i]chardih kalä[/i]) and humility ([i]nimarta[/i]). Kind of common sense, you might say...but in those days, this was a friggin' revelation. Pathetic, isn't it? But hey, that's what it says. That's the Guru's Will. And there'snothing wrong with it! It's universal, it's everlasting. And what is the [i]manmat[/i] that people need to conquer? Why, it's the Five Thieves, of course: Lust ([i]khäm[/i]), rage ([i]krödh[/i]), greed ([i]löbh[/i]), attachment ([i]möh[/i]), and pride ([i]hankär[/i]). The most hilarious thing, of course, is seeing that so many self-proclaimed Sikkhs are victim to these things, particularly rage, attachment and pride associated with their perspective on what their religion is. No matter how skewed their perspective or how misinformed their view, they will fight to the bitter end only to find...nothing. They were fighting for nothing. Air, perhaps. Religion is a human fabrication. Guru Nanak saw this. He even said that "there is no Hindu, there is no Muslim", and this is way before the label "Sikkh" was even conceived. This is back when the Guru was trying to [i]anti[/i]-institutionalise these fabrications that were dividing mankind. What a backtrack we've gone and done, eh? I don't mind Sikkhism to be an institution...but it has to be an anti-institutional institution. Like how intolerance can only be sorted by being intolerant of intolerance. Same idea. And this is what the Khalsa Panth was made for. Unfortunately...people kinda...forgot why it was made in the first place... [B][/B] Whilst I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make with the "artist's impression" comment, I think I should tell you that there are a number of alternative perspectives and views even on one thing. A lot of Sikkhs I know who have sorta 'disowned' Sikkhism very often are themselves unaware of what the truth behind a particular matter is. Yes, there is crap that has made it into the insitution over the years - 'tis the way of human nature, I'm afraid - but there is something very noble and very much worthy of respect at the center of it. Believe me, I've been questioning God's purpose since the age of three and a half (I was nicknamed "Little Buddha" growing up, which used to {censored} me off, but now I take it as a bit of a complement, if only because it meant that I didn't take things at face value), and I know what Sikkhism is and what it isn't. I know that Sikkhism started as one man's philosophy to reform a defunct and demoralised society. I know that Sikkhism changed the face of sub-continental history and that without it Hinduism would be extinct, and that India would be yet another Islamic fascist state instead of the secular democracy that it is today. I know that Sikkhism attempted to unite all human beings as one, and even [b]if[/b] the idea of God was created for this purpose alone, then it was a noble purpose. Also, I know that many self-proclaimed 'Sikkhs' today are not only not practicing what Guru Nanak attempted to preach, but actually have their mindset in the totally wrong place. They're like Hindus or Muslims in that their attitudes are the same, even though their 'belief systems' use different terms. So don't take Sikkhism's worth purely on the backs of its generally misinformed following. It ain't there fault. Well, actually it is, but most people don't like to question the third-hand information that their uncle told them about what Sikkhism is as opposed to wiping their mental state clean and starting from the top. [center][i]"If some lucky men survive the onslaught of the third world war of atomic and hydrogen bombs, then the Sikkh religion will be the only means of guiding them."[/i] [b]Bertrand Russel[/b][/center] Russel is referring to how the Sikkh code has the ability to reuinte and reconstute the world in a civil, democratic and secular way (remember, it was written to be such a text, and it was responsible for the cultural shift from fascism to secularism) should a third World War break out. But he was then asked that, if this religion (and I hate using that word "religion", believe me) was indeed so noble, then why did it not posess the ability to [i]prevent[/i] a third World War from happening in the first place? To this, he replied: [center][i]"Yes, it has the capability, but the Sikkhs have not brought out in the broad daylight, the splendid doctrines of this religion which has come into existence for the benefit of the entire mankind. This is their greatest sin and the Sikkhs cannot be freed of it."[/i] [b]Bertrand Russel[/b][/center] And that's just it. Most people who are born into Sikkh heritage or who adopt it are simply adopting a socio-cultural hang-over that is in excess of three hundred years old. They're not looking at the principles of the religion, but are rather looking at the bells and whistles and clothes and other crap that make 'em feel like their "God's favourite"...which is just rubbish, isn't it? The [i]actual[/i] philosophy of the Granth will probably be rediscovered in generations to come when pre-ordained images of [i]maya[/i] (this illusory construct that is the physical world...think [i]Matrix[/i] :cool:) are relinquished and the world is embraced in its entirety and humanity is respected in complete equality. [center][i]"Kabir, when you are in love with the One God, duality and alienation depart. You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald."[/i] [b]Guru Granth Sahib Adi Granth, p. 1365[/b][/center] ;) [i]P.S. - And the only reason I didn't reply to KDS1980 was because I actually had no intention of posting in this thread (I tend to overlook self-perpetuating arguments with more insults than actual discussion points), but those size 1,000,000 fonts you had going on were kind of hard to avoid :}{}{}: Don't take it personally, it's just that I have other things to do than read through the whole thread :wink:[/i] [SIZE=2][B][SIZE=4] [/SIZE][/B][SIZE=4][SIZE=2]This just stuck out, mainly because it is actually rather wrong. Yeah, the texts were compiled [i]after[/i] the death of Guru Nanak, but those words were already in writing during Guru Nanak's time. All that had to be done was to compile them into a single, static volume. It's not as though anything was re-written or re-interpreted. It was written as it was written by Nanak's scribes. He would dictate, and they would write. "Granth" actually means "compilation". [/SIZE][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][B][/B][/SIZE][SIZE=4][B] [/B][SIZE=2]He was born a Hindu, actually. And his birth was only 600 years ago. It's like saying "no-one knows what William the Conqueror looked like...so that must mean that the battle of Hastings in 1066 (way before Guru Nanak) never took place[SIZE=2]". See? Doesn't really work, does it?[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE] Well, I'm tired now. Eyes closing, and I'm going for a run in the morning, so I'll leave it at that. Be good :}{}{}: [/QUOTE]
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