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Gurbani (14-53)
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Pahre (74-78)
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Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
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Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
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Vaar Sorath (642-659)
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Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Hard Talk
Why Is The Law Of Karma Rejected?
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<blockquote data-quote="Archived_member14" data-source="post: 178916" data-attributes="member: 586"><p>Ambarsaria ji,</p><p></p><p>Butting in</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, you could try to find out first, what karma exactly is i.e. what constitutes cause and what are results and what are the conditions for the latter to come about. Also you might like to question any insistence on being able to observe a one to one connection between any set of cause and effect.</p><p></p><p>Karma as a law? Good deeds through body, speech or mind bring about good results and bad deeds, bad results. Good deeds can’t bring about bad results and bad deeds can’t bring about good results. </p><p></p><p>What constitutes cause / karma? Causes are mental volition of a particular intensity as in:</p><p></p><p>Ten unwholesome actions: </p><p></p><p>1. Killing living beings </p><p>2. Stealing </p><p>3. Sexual misconduct </p><p>4. False speech </p><p>5. Malicious speech </p><p>6. Harsh speech </p><p>7. Gossip </p><p>8. Coveting </p><p>9. Ill-will </p><p>10. Wrong views</p><p></p><p>And</p><p></p><p>Ten wholesome actions: </p><p></p><p>1. Abstaining from killing living beings </p><p>2. Abstaining from stealing </p><p>3. Abstaining from sexual misconduct </p><p>4. Abstaining from false speech </p><p>5. Abstaining from malicious speech </p><p>6. Abstaining from harsh speech </p><p>7. Abstaining from gossip </p><p>8. Abstaining from coveting </p><p>9. Abstaining from ill-will </p><p>10. Possessing Right Understanding of the Truth</p><p></p><p>And what are the results of karma? They are resultant consciousness as in birth in good or bad plane of existence and good or bad experiences through the five senses. </p><p></p><p>Both cause and effect require a coming together of many conditions, one material and the rest all mental. Take the case of lying; it is the intention to deceive / mislead someone else. This intention arises with consciousness and other mental factors such as feeling, perception, attention and rooted in ignorance and attachment. The intention must be of the intensity that it conditions verbal action leading to the other person being misled. This is karma and a seed has been planted which is passed on from one moment of consciousness to the next until there comes a time where a set of conditions are in place for the resultant consciousness (usually several of them) to arise in the form for example, seeing an unpleasant object, hearing an unpleasant sound or tasting an unpleasant taste. </p><p></p><p>Now, immediately following these sense experiences, depending on yet other conditions, there is a volitional activity. One person will react with aversion, for another, wisdom may arise to understand the experience and therefore experience detachment. This depends on the accumulated tendency. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But one is not asked to “observe”. It is not about conventional actions of different beings in given situations. But rather one is encouraged to develop understanding regarding the nature of different mental states. It is a study where one gradually learns to distinguish states that are volitional in nature from those that are mere resultants. This is the basis for belief in karma. And with growth of understanding is faith or confidence, confident about the value of good and the harm of evil and how one must give pleasant results and the other unpleasant result. And this is the law. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The example you give is not that of karma and its result. If I hit you and you hit me back, this is not cause and effect. The hurt that you experience is not from “my” bad action, but from your own, one done anytime from the infinite past till the morning of that same day. I experience the hurt from your slap is not the result of my hitting you, but some other deed in the past. Our hitting each other will give results in the future in accordance with the strength of intention, but when this happens, no one can ever predict. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And you think that one should be able to do the same with karma? To begin with, scientific laws involve observations of the conventional world, whereas karma is a mental reality which rises and falls away completely in an instant. Second, both cause and resultant require a coming together of a complex set of conditions all of which are extremely fleeting and not within anyone’s control.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So you have no problem with qualifying karma as “law”? </p><p>But I doubt that you really know what karma is. You have your own peculiar observation and interpretation which you allow the label karma to be applied. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you really understood karma, as in knowing the nature of volitional consciousness, there’d be no reason for you to dismiss past and future lives. You’d begin to understand for example, that birth is in fact a resultant consciousness, and so are life-continuum and death. And if you can see how one consciousness rises and falls away only to be succeeded by another one due to a set of necessary conditions, you’d have no reason to think that the process stops at death. </p><p></p><p>But of course, there is no soul, just this series of consciousness conditioned variously, till there comes a time when the fuel, namely attachment, is totally eradicated and the death consciousness of that life arises. </p><p></p><p>But you believe in soul don’t you? Please explain to me what soul is and how do you experience it? The concepts of matter and energy and their being interchangeable, this I can accept. These are based on some very real experiences through the senses and the use of concepts directly and indirectly derived and applying reason and logic. But “soul”, this is pure fiction to me. And you believe this but not so karma, when in fact the latter is very real and constitutes much of what you experience in a day?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Archived_member14, post: 178916, member: 586"] Ambarsaria ji, Butting in Well, you could try to find out first, what karma exactly is i.e. what constitutes cause and what are results and what are the conditions for the latter to come about. Also you might like to question any insistence on being able to observe a one to one connection between any set of cause and effect. Karma as a law? Good deeds through body, speech or mind bring about good results and bad deeds, bad results. Good deeds can’t bring about bad results and bad deeds can’t bring about good results. What constitutes cause / karma? Causes are mental volition of a particular intensity as in: Ten unwholesome actions: 1. Killing living beings 2. Stealing 3. Sexual misconduct 4. False speech 5. Malicious speech 6. Harsh speech 7. Gossip 8. Coveting 9. Ill-will 10. Wrong views And Ten wholesome actions: 1. Abstaining from killing living beings 2. Abstaining from stealing 3. Abstaining from sexual misconduct 4. Abstaining from false speech 5. Abstaining from malicious speech 6. Abstaining from harsh speech 7. Abstaining from gossip 8. Abstaining from coveting 9. Abstaining from ill-will 10. Possessing Right Understanding of the Truth And what are the results of karma? They are resultant consciousness as in birth in good or bad plane of existence and good or bad experiences through the five senses. Both cause and effect require a coming together of many conditions, one material and the rest all mental. Take the case of lying; it is the intention to deceive / mislead someone else. This intention arises with consciousness and other mental factors such as feeling, perception, attention and rooted in ignorance and attachment. The intention must be of the intensity that it conditions verbal action leading to the other person being misled. This is karma and a seed has been planted which is passed on from one moment of consciousness to the next until there comes a time where a set of conditions are in place for the resultant consciousness (usually several of them) to arise in the form for example, seeing an unpleasant object, hearing an unpleasant sound or tasting an unpleasant taste. Now, immediately following these sense experiences, depending on yet other conditions, there is a volitional activity. One person will react with aversion, for another, wisdom may arise to understand the experience and therefore experience detachment. This depends on the accumulated tendency. But one is not asked to “observe”. It is not about conventional actions of different beings in given situations. But rather one is encouraged to develop understanding regarding the nature of different mental states. It is a study where one gradually learns to distinguish states that are volitional in nature from those that are mere resultants. This is the basis for belief in karma. And with growth of understanding is faith or confidence, confident about the value of good and the harm of evil and how one must give pleasant results and the other unpleasant result. And this is the law. The example you give is not that of karma and its result. If I hit you and you hit me back, this is not cause and effect. The hurt that you experience is not from “my” bad action, but from your own, one done anytime from the infinite past till the morning of that same day. I experience the hurt from your slap is not the result of my hitting you, but some other deed in the past. Our hitting each other will give results in the future in accordance with the strength of intention, but when this happens, no one can ever predict. And you think that one should be able to do the same with karma? To begin with, scientific laws involve observations of the conventional world, whereas karma is a mental reality which rises and falls away completely in an instant. Second, both cause and resultant require a coming together of a complex set of conditions all of which are extremely fleeting and not within anyone’s control. So you have no problem with qualifying karma as “law”? But I doubt that you really know what karma is. You have your own peculiar observation and interpretation which you allow the label karma to be applied. If you really understood karma, as in knowing the nature of volitional consciousness, there’d be no reason for you to dismiss past and future lives. You’d begin to understand for example, that birth is in fact a resultant consciousness, and so are life-continuum and death. And if you can see how one consciousness rises and falls away only to be succeeded by another one due to a set of necessary conditions, you’d have no reason to think that the process stops at death. But of course, there is no soul, just this series of consciousness conditioned variously, till there comes a time when the fuel, namely attachment, is totally eradicated and the death consciousness of that life arises. But you believe in soul don’t you? Please explain to me what soul is and how do you experience it? The concepts of matter and energy and their being interchangeable, this I can accept. These are based on some very real experiences through the senses and the use of concepts directly and indirectly derived and applying reason and logic. But “soul”, this is pure fiction to me. And you believe this but not so karma, when in fact the latter is very real and constitutes much of what you experience in a day? [/QUOTE]
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Why Is The Law Of Karma Rejected?
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