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Why Does Lord require this.

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Sikh80, Jan 13, 2008.

  1. Sikh80

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    auTu PrIdw aujU swij subh invwj gujwir ] (1381-13, slok, syK PrId jI)
    Rise up, Fareed, and cleanse yourself; chant your morning prayer.
    jo isru sWeI nw invY so isru kip auqwir ]71] (1381-13, slok, syK PrId jI)
    The head which does not bow to the Lord - chop off and remove that head. ||71||
    jo isru sweI nw invY so isru kIjY kWie ] (1381-14, slok, syK PrId jI)
    That head which does not bow to the Lord - what is to be done with that head?
    kuMny hyiT jlweIAY bwlx sMdY Qwie ]72] (1381-14, slok, syK PrId jI)
    Put it in the fireplace, instead of firewood. ||72||
    **********************************************

    The fact of the matter is that we have come here for he wanted.We were helpless when we took birth. WE live in pain and anguish till we live and ....we die, we are still help less. He is the architect of my destiny and He has produced me and made me that I am. WE act as per HIS will and wishes. Our each action is governed by the will Of super-consciousness. If one reads Gurbani; we shall be classified as ' the poor creature' who is not capable of doing anything.

    Even devotional worship to HIM is gifted by HIM.
    If we have forgotten HIM ,it is on account of Maya /illusion/ sense organs.Where is the fault; that Bhagat Fareed ji is to speak like this.
    I never wanted to come here.He made me come here and then why should I bow to him at all.Because of food i eat or the so called beautiful things that I see and much more...but I never want ....why should the creator be unhappy with me...I think the line should be applicable to Fareed ji and not to me....
    what do you think?.please support it with gurbani...

    For Moderators please.
    [ I could not format the text better than this.I think we require more fonts and sizes for better presentation of the english text esp. when it is side by side of the gurmukhi Text.]
     
    #1 Sikh80, Jan 13, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2008
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  3. Archived_Member1

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    when reading Fareed ji's bani, be sure to remember that he was a Muslim, and so was writing from a Muslim perspective.
     
  4. Sikh80

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    But then Fareed's Bani is registered in GRanth Sahib and it shall be treated as the Bani Of Nirankaar. No?:)
     
  5. Archived_Member1

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    of course, i never suggested otherwise. but sometimes it helps to understand the context from which the writer is coming.
     
  6. Sikh80

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    It is ok. But the basic answer to the question remains to be answered.It may look simple but it is not so.No.:)
    Sometimes, I think that there cannot be any answer at all as HE willed so we sprouted from no where and will go wherever HE wills us to go and we shall sprout again..and it goes on.....NO.:u):
     
    #5 Sikh80, Jan 13, 2008
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  8. Sikh80

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    Thanks for clarifying that it is Fareed's bani. But then what should be applicable to Fareed, Fareed would have wanted should be applicable to ordinary human being as well.


    Regarding Free will, I do not think we have. Which ever way one go it is pre-destined. I fail to answer. May be God brought me to the crossing of gurudwara or to indulge in that you say as hedonism. I cannot say anyone can say with 100 percent accuracy where one should move. But speaking generally, one should prefer Gurudwara. :)

    Karma. well it is not fully explained .It has the biggest lacuna that there is no specific fruit attached to the actions. The theory is incomplete both at macro and micro level.
    regards

    Let us see what we are supposed to be as a sikh. Sikh is to be a nice human being from all angles. He has to be a good man/son/husband/father/employee and anything else that one has to for leading this life and act without expecting any fruits of the actions.[Gyani Maskeen ji] The fructification Of our efforts is not stated anywhere and to this effect the theory Of karma is incomplete and will remain so. It is a great deterrent for us.it is the way I see. Had Guru sahibaan secified that the result Of the Karmas will be reflected after 30 yeas or 40 years or the things should have been that specific things would have been easier.As it is not so we have to live with whatever we have.:wah:
    Next come the spiritual part Of the sikh. Sikh has to be in constant meditation of the almighty. Be it amritvella or any other time. It shall make our minds occupied and we shall have little time to do something that is not as per the conscience. I think if we do not think that is bad we shall never do it.This is the philosphy of simran /or meditating on continued basis. WE shall be sub duing our mind and also be in HIS meditation. We can achieve this by visiting Gurudwara.
    It is the sikhi ,that I have understood.

    I have posted 3 posts but both have been clubbed with in a single post.Kindly do not mind my english.It is very colorful. But please tell what is this automated double post.I noted it yesterday.:wah:
     
    #7 Sikh80, Jan 13, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2008
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    karma is fully explained in one simple line. ape bij ape hi khah. as you sow, so shall you reap. to blame god for your bad actions is a cop out. we must take responsibility for our actions, and we will suffer the consequences if we choose badly.

    yes, everything is God's will. but we live in the world of maya, illusion, and so we have the illusion of free will. we must make our own decisions. we should base them on what we understand of God's Hukam, but we can't sit around waiting for God to make up our mind for us.
     
  10. Huck_Finn

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    God wills all of you to shut up !!

    ;)
     
  11. spnadmin

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    amarsanghera ji

    It happens to all of us. When will the talk end and the dhyanna begin?

    But it is a forum and talk and a forum go together like a horse and a carriage.

    But more than once you have made me chuckle. I talk too much myself.
     
  12. Sikh80

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    karma is fully explained in one simple line. ape bij ape hi khah. as you sow, so shall you reap. to blame god for your bad actions is a cop out. we must take responsibility for our actions, and we will suffer the consequences if we choose badly.

    Yes, Karma is fully explained.,If you consider it to be fully explained. No one is blaming any one .All that is intended to be stated is that it leaves much to be desired. Aape beejeay aape he khah, is a generic format of the theory.It does not specify anything more than this.Probably, no need was felt and may be even now there is no need.

    I go back to the basic question:

    "The fact of the matter is that we have come here for he wanted.We were helpless when we took birth. WE live in pain and anguish till we live and ....we die, we are still help less. He is the architect of my destiny and He has produced me and made me that I am. WE act as per HIS will and wishes. Our each action is governed by the will Of super-consciousness. If one reads Gurbani; we shall be classified as ' the poor creature' who is not capable of doing anything.

    Even devotional worship to HIM is gifted by HIM.
    If we have forgotten HIM ,it is on account of Maya /illusion/ sense organs.Where is the fault; that Bhagat Fareed ji is to speak like this.

    I never wanted to come here.He made me come here and then why should I bow to him at all.Because of food i eat or the so called beautiful things that I see and much more...but I never want ....why should the creator be unhappy with me...I think the line should be applicable to Fareed ji and not to me...."

    Where is the fault Of the creature?
    It is very well stated that all we come here to remember HIM and meditate upon HIM and be a good human being and try to be Jeevan-Mukt, then we shall be happy. But it has been made difficult by the things like Illusion,five senses,ego, lack Of understanding, Karmas,pre-ordained destiny and that every thing is,more or less, dependent upon HIM and grace. Then it is given an icinng of GUru/true guru.

    A. Guru Grace
    gur ikrpw qy bUJIAY sBu bRhmu smwieAw ]9]2]18] (229-10, gauVI, mÚ 1)
    By Guru's Grace, one comes to understand, that God is contained in all.
    rwm pVhu min krhu bIcwru ] (230-9, gauVI, mÚ 3)
    Learn of the Lord, and contemplate Him in your mind.
    gur prswdI mYlu auqwru ]1] rhwau ] (230-9, gauVI, mÚ 3)
    By Guru's Grace, your filth shall be washed away.


    B.Guru
    siqguir myly pRiB Awip imlwey ] (231-11, gauVI, mÚ 3)
    God Himself unites us in Union with the True Guru,
    myry pRB swcy kY min Bwey ] (231-11, gauVI, mÚ 3)
    when we become pleasing to the Mind of my True God.

    C. Pre-ordained Destiny
    pwris prisAY pwrsu hoie joqI joiq smwie ] (27-9, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
    By personally experiencing the Personality of the Guru, one's own personality is uplifted, and one's light merges into the Light.
    ijn kau pUrib iliKAw iqn sqguru imilAw Awie ]4] (27-10, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
    Those who have such pre-ordained destiny come to meet the True Guru. ||4||

    One can see many more lines in the Granth sahib. Above all we are supposed to have the understanding as to who we are and how shall we meet him. I think I am going Off the track.
    In nutshell I have nothing in my control and I should learn to accept all the things good or bad as my destiny and HIS will.

    A concluding thought; If HE really wanted to merge into him, should it be a difficult process? Why the game of Maya and senses and ego are pasted on us ? He does not require us to meet hIm yet. The moment He wants us to merge it shall happen. Even if we undergo a strict code of physical and mental discipline it may take many lives as the people say. and then there is no indication if we are moving in a right direction. We have to take the help of the mind of ours to govern itself. These are stray thoughts and i do not know if I should be writing like this or not.I shall slow down a bit.It may not amount to slandering to anyone. I beg the forgiveness of all whom I have inadvertently hurt or have flouted.
     
  13. Archived_Member1

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    if you really feel this way, you're free NOT to bow. NOT to worship. NOT to try to conquer the 5 thieves, NOT to be sikh.

    no one is going to hand you life on a platter. and if they did, would it really be worth it? would you really have learned or accomplished anything? would you care?
     
  14. Sikh80

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    Ok ,why do not you simplify. Why should all this be done.?I mean no disrespect. I am as good a learner as you are. It is during this learning that we conceptualise the shape of the things and then proceed. So please help out if you have a clear vision. I shall be grateful.
    There is none from whom we can get these doubts cleared.
    If GOD has given us ego..it must be with some purpose...

    i would request you to kindly not to answer if you are answering me for the sake of an answer.
     
    #13 Sikh80, Jan 14, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2008

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