gs_chana said:
WJKWJF,
Jagmeet, unfortunately the whole meaning of what exactly is amrit has been confused by many over the years, through misunderstandings of gurbani.
In gurbani it is written in countless places that salvation/muktee can only be achieved through absorbing amrit.
Amrit is God, God is pure, God is without Sin, and by absorbing God in our minds, his name begins to automatically chant, his praises in your mind, NOT OUT LOUD, are chanted in your mind (as per Japji Sahib). One needs to understand that the whole meaning of amrit is misunderstood.
Gyani Ji, knows more than a manmukh like me, but I have read sufficient texts and have been given explanations as to the meaning of such phrases by Giani Nasib Singh Dhillon, and he had explained to me that Amrit is not the one you take through the Panj Piari. That amrit is of symbolism, it symobilises the unity of one man to another, under a common khalsa flag, when amrit is taken we all take a sip out of the same bowl. It makes us feel strong, it has its symbolist power.
However, Jagmeet, you shall attain salvation through meditation on God's Name, and such meditation should be done walking, sleeping, sitting (uttath, behtath, sovath jagath, hari jas gayehai).
Sikhism is universal, you are a sikh by following gurbani and living life according to it. any person can be as sikh, a muslim, hindu, etc. Because as per Guru Gobind, religion is only by name, every one on this earth is a human. As a human, we need guidance as to how to live life. That is where Guruji Comes. He gives us the guidance, thus, read gurbani (in english translated is you wish) and follow it...apply it to your life, and then and then only can you be a sikh, and the same applies to me...I am not a sikh...how dare i call myself such sikh...i may be identified as a sikh...but call yourself a sikh only if you live by guru's command, and dare I say I am not practicing what I preach, though I do try to help others on the same journey as me (vand keh shakho; share you knowledge with others on the common path to God).
And when you read gurbani, you will find in countless places, that the only way to attain salvation, is through Naam Japu, no other method.
So in response to your question, you will achieve salvation if you meditate on God's Name, but do take the Amrit (Khanda Wala) if you wish to come within the fold of the Khalsa. You can still acieve salvation without being Baptised, for a non-sikh who is not baptised can still achieve salvation through his/her respective religion, so can a human being who is a follower of Guru Granth, as the common goal of man is salvation. Guruji is a teacher, who says to his student, a Sikh, you may only achieve salvation through continuous rememebrance of God. Other acts are fruitless and just ritualistic.
Thank you for your time, sorry if I had gone on a tangent, and made no sense half way through, lolz, and for any offence I may have caused.
WJKWJF Gurdip
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI fateh.
Veer Gurdip Singh ji is quite right. The INITIATION CEREMONY we KHALSA JI go through is correctly called "KHANDE BATTE DEE PAHUL"...it is a PAHUL CEREMONY...meant to INITIATE a new Member of the KHALSA.
GURU GOBIND RAI Ji was already a GURU....BUT more importanly He was NOT a "member" of the KHALSA..and that is precisely WHY GURU JI also KNELT DOWN before the PUNJ on Bent Knee and REQUESTED the PAHUL and transformed into GURU GOBIND SINGH JI.
SECONDLY..until Vasakhi 1699....there was always ONLY ONE GURU...and Only a GURU could Give PAHUL. Guru nanak ji gave CHARAN PAHUL/NAAM to Bhai Lehana Ji to make Him GURU ANGAD..and so on.
Guru Gobind Singh ji MERGED His Divine DEH into the KHALSA ( Collective GURU)..and now this KHALSA GURU can give this PAHUL..the world over. Until Vasakhi 1699..any SIKH wanting to take PAHUL..had to travel to the Prevailing GURU....in Guru nanak ji's time..every one had to come to GURU NANAK JI ONLY. ..in 1699, the PUNJ travelled to ANAND PUR SAHIB from all over INDIA. No one else could initiate a SIKH into SIKHI...Now the GURU-KHALSA is World Wide...perfectly suited to today's circumstances.
2. The PAHUL ceremony has existed since the beginning of time...each sect, each religion had its own. Even today..to become a MUSLIM..you have to go through an "initiation ceremony"...to become a Christian you ahve to go through a "Baptism Ceremony"..etc etc. NO one can just become a "christian" by reading the Bible at home...or proclaim himself aMuslim by reading the Koran..SIMILARLY NO ONE can declare Himself a KHALSA by just reading "Gurbani" at his own home..He she will have to Present before the PUNJ KHALSA...fro the Khande Batte dee PAHUL...and be admitted to the Khalsa Brotherhood.
Hvaing said that..the "AMRIT" mentioned in GURBANI...is NAAM AMRIT. A few times "amrit" also means Milk, water, Ghee etc...BUT 99.9% of the time in Gurbani..of ALL Gurus, Bhagats etc..AMRIT= NAAM.
Khande Batte dee PAHUL has been wrongly popularised as "Amrit" - IT is NOT. Its always been Khande Batte dee PAHUL..as in PEEVOH PAHUL KHANDE DHAAR HOVEH JANAM SOHELA...WAHO WAHO GURU GOBIND SINGH JI...AAPE GUR CHELA.
The World has always been very clear...There are the LEADERS..the GURUS..the KINGS...and the FOLLOWERS..the PUBLIC. In the FIRST HISTORIC UPHEAVEL of all time...GURU GOBIND SINGH JI became the FIRST GURU to be BOTH..GURU and CHELA...KING and SUBJECT...LEADER and FOLLOWER at the SAME TIME. This has never happened before and Never happend Since..and most probably will never happen again.
Now I come to the..."SO there is NO HOPE..for the unbaptised ??....blah blah blah..
NO SUCH THING...at least in GURMATT anyway. Guru nanak JYOT is for the ENTIRE WORLD..GURBANI is UNIVERSAL TRUTH...for everybody irrespective of creed colour race height weight place of residence etc etc etc etc. Guru nanak ji or the Other Gurus Bhagats NEVER claimed SOLE RIGHT to MUKTEE/SALVATION.
But then whats the "problem" ??
Let me take a worldy example. MY son struggles through elementary school, secondary, high, college, University..post graduate etc...and achieves Dr. So and So. My neighbour's son is absolutley hopelss...cant even spell a decent four letter word correctly.
So can his father come to me and say.."SO Gyani Ji..NO HOPE for my son ahh...?
Why NOT ?? Just because his so and so cant read and write..doesnt mean he cant earn an honest living..as a carpenter/mechanic..bricklayer ??? He CANT be a DOCTOR/UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR..but we cant say He has NO HOPE !! can we ??
SAME ANSWER HERE...Millions of Sages and Bhagats etc have come and Gone...Many came BEFORE GURU NANAK...and MANY did bhagtee naam japp etc etc. Many more MILLIONS NEVER prayed a single time in their life...REad JAPJI SAHIB...ASAANKH this and ASANKH That...BUT ?? then what ??
THEY have ALL GOT their JUST DESSERTS...there are FIVE KHANDS...and many other places for Each and Everyone....surely EACH one irrespective of being a murderer like Hitler and a Humanitarian like MK Gandhi..and Divines like Gurus bhagats etc CANNOT be ALL put in one PLACE...
IN SIKHI..we have a "SIKH"....and He can progress to KHALSA....and DONT get me WRONG..becoming an AMRITDHAREE KHALSA ( PAHUL) is NOT the END..it is the BEGINNING. The KHALSA is the EMPTY VESSEL...now he must begin to Fill this empt vessel with NAAM AMRIT..from Gurbani and Naam japping. Any one who thinks He has a VISA and Booked Ticket to SACH KHAND the moment he stepped out of PAHUL CEREMONY is an EMPTY VESSEL...a DONKEY in LION's CLOTHING...he is fooling no one but HIMSELF.
There is NO FORCE..no compulsion...anyone is perfectly acceptable to remain just a "sikh" (Elementary school kid)..but anyone else wishing to progress further is ENCOURAGED....but if you think with a Doctorate Degree in your Hand you are the end all and be all...then YOU are the Biggest Fool of all time. Parrh Parrh gaddee ladhiyaeh..is like Donkey carrying a library on his back..With a "DOCTRATE DEGREE" on your wall is when the REALLY HARD WORK BEGINS...
Guru nanak Jyot and Gurbani is never "exclusive"... Gurbani preaches that each of us has his own LEVEL...Depths of the Pacific Trench...to the Peaks of Everest...and anywhere in Between..Take your PICK..and be happy.
Hope this clarifies matters..IF still got queries..happy to elaborate even further..
jarnail singh gyani:whisling:
you know how..
