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Why Do We Read Gurbani?

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichaar' started by Archived_member2, Jul 30, 2005.

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  1. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear companions on the spiritual journey!

    Let us exchange our thoughts and experiences in Satsang on the following topic.

    Why do we read Gurbani?

    I wish you all to move forward during this Satsang.

    Love.


    Balbir Singh
     
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  3. drkhalsa

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    Dear Balbir ji

    Thanks for the wishes

    The first thing that cames to my mind after reading your question was that reading/listening Gurbani make me realise of my separation from Akal Purakh and so creates a kind of longing/Vairaag.

    Jatinder Singh
     
    #2 drkhalsa, Jul 30, 2005
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  4. Archived_member2

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    Satsriakal to all and Jatinder Singh Ji!
    This is a great observation.

    The topic here is about reading.

    Many of us read Gurbani for the fulfillment of a wish, as ritual or because a preacher has directed us to follow his instructions.


    Balbir Singh
     
  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Balbir Singh jio,
    Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru JI KI fateh.

    You are right about reading gurbani for fulfillment of wishes, as a ritual and becasue some SADH SANT told us to do so many paaths of this and that Bani to get our wish..

    Its beside the point that these "sadh-sants" put people along this WRONG PATH and then still go on claiming they are "joining people with GURBANI...respect Gurbani..etc.

    The second group of people have been told..this Gurbani paath and that is a "requirement" of nitnem/discipline/rehit etc and most of us just do that...as matter of course...and some go so fast as to finish it all and get it over with..

    Gurbani says.... "Koi Birla Bichaarsee... and People think GURBANI is just GEET...this is Brahm Bichaar....and Logan Raam KHILONNA jana... How true.

    Only the rare ones "READ" Gurbani as it should be...a LOVE LETTER from our BELOVED..to be read again and agaian..lovingly pondering over each letter..and envision the lotus feet charan of Gurudev...

    Warm regards

    jarnail Singh gyani
     
  6. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Veer Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji!

    You mentioned " . . . these "sadh-sants" put people along this WRONG PATH and then still go on claiming they are joining people with GURBANI...respect Gurbani..etc."

    Well I am of the different opinion. Perhaps I am born with a God Blessed spoon in the mouth. I may write books of anecdotes being in company of great souls.

    I have heard one goes on reading books again and again till he comes to know the taste of mango. Afterwards he finds it funny when a preacher insists him to read books on mangoes.
    May I whisper? He still enjoys mangoes and books on it but the interpretation of a preacher.

    I am not waiting, for the moment when my Guru will suggest me the technique of reading to realize God.

    Right now we are little busy with HIS Play (Leelaa) and agreeing with HIM.

    By the way when you find a Guru's statement in Gurbani where HE suggests us to read any Granth, please let all know it.

    Love.


    Balbir Singh
     
  7. drkhalsa

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    dear Balbir ji

    actually i could not understand your post fully can you further explain on these point

    Does this mean that people tend love and follow interpretation more than the mangoes it ?



    Jatinder Singh
     
  8. Archived_member2

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    Satsriakal to all and Jatinder Singh Ji!
    You asked for some explanations.

    A god-blessed spoon in the mouth is The Naam.

    From my childhood I got the company of great souls. The experiences of incidents with them are anecdotes.

    Once a person comes to the taste of the mango he knows how to continue with this. He enjoys books on it too because books remember him of this taste again. He does not enjoy the false interpretation of a preacher about mangoes.

    Right now I and my God are little busy with HIS Play . It is so great to be engaged with HIM.
    I find HIM changing rules of the Game every moment. I agree and get busy with The Play again.

    Love.


    Balbir Singh
     
  9. khadsenr

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    Jai Gurudev- Love moves the world and bring people hearts togather. Reading/hearing proven spiritual texts give birth to love in heart. It is simple to say but difficult to happen. It purely depends on individual sadhana & practice on this path of spirituality.
     
  10. Amarpal

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    Dear Khalsa Ji,

    I read Gurbani because it explains to me the meaning of my life and shows me the way to advance on the path of spirituality and share the same with others.

    With love and respect for all.

    Amarpal Singh
     
  11. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    YES..and GURBANI teaches me the way to NAAM JAAP - the one and only way to achieve Union with WAHEGURU....the ultimate step of human birth.

    Prophets pirs pagambars and bhagats and sidhs and yogis have come in previous yugs...BUT KALYUG has SHABAD GURU....Naam japp and the Union with waheguru.

    Jarnail Singh Gyani
     
  12. jagmeet

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    Can you share with us some of your experiences/anecdotes?
     
  13. jagmeet

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    Gyani ji,I have this question 'what really is naam?'I know this is a 'difficult to answer' question,but hope you can shed some light.

    Another question 'what is shabad?'--how is it different from 'naam'?
     
  14. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Dear Jio,
    Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.

    Gurbani as you most probably already know is GYAN...KNOWLEDGE of the BRAHM...Waheguru...

    Shabad has two meanings... in the Entire Gurbani...one shabad is GYAN..the other Shabad is NAAM

    By a rule of Thumb..the GYAN SABADS give us GYAN of waheguru, his attributes..praise etc

    The NAAM Shabads tell us TO REPEAT....the "NAAM". These are to be PRACTISED..by repeating as in Naam japp. As a rule of thumb..any WORD that occurs TWICE...example Har har..Gobind Gobind...is MEANT to Be NAAM JAPP..and the word HAR is NAAM of WAHEGURU...so one can repeat Har har Har har..as naam japp..or say Gobind Gobind Gobind...Narayan narayan narayan..

    But ALL these NAAMS of Waheguru came in the PREVIOUS Yugs..to Bhagats of Waheguru...GURU NANAK JYOT came in KALYUG with the Totally All ENCOMPASING NAAM..WAHEGURU...this is the Gurmantar the Panj give us to naam japp.

    In Gurbani we are also given the TECHNIQUE...this Naam is to Japped AARDH URRDH...IN - OUT..as in BREATH IN (WAHE)..BREATHE OUT (GURU)..You will notice that NONE of the other Kirtam names of Waheguru..like Har har gobind gobind narayan narayan etc are AARDH URRDH...ONLY WAHE-GURU fulfills this sharat.

    In short..the entire GURBANI of 1429 Aangs of Guru Granth Ji is GYAAN of Waheguru..but there are many NAAM SHABADS...these are identified by their Naam japp instructions. The Gyaan shabads give us Knowledge of waheguru..the Naam shabads tell us to do naam japp.

    If you still have any doubts or need the specific examples from Gurbani tuks..fell free to ask and enquire further..

    Stay in chardeekalla..Happy naam japping..now that:wah: you know how..

    Jarnail Singh gyani:whisling:
     
  15. jagmeet

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    Gyani ji,
    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

    A Gurmukh sajjan told me of this method(breathe in ,breathe out) of naam jap a few years back.I did it for some time,but then another gurmukh sajjan told me that repeating the name waheguru should be done only by those who have taken amrit.Others, like me ,should say 'Dhan Guru Nanak'.What is your opinion on this?

    Coming to the central question of this thread,why is reading gurbani or repeatedly reading gurbani important?I think the answer lies in one of the lines of gurbani I read in one of the forums(don't remember which)here yesterday.If I understood it correctly it meant something like this--singing God's praises,one immerses into or acquires his qualities.

    As I write this post,I've tried to search via gurbani researcher the line I read.I don't know if it's exactly the line I read yesterday,but here it is:-

    'Har gun gaaveh,har nit padheh,har gun gaae samai'.

    Hope Gyaniji can elucidate more along these lines.One more question I have is:- 'if repeating the name waheguru is naam jap,is doing paath or reading gurbani also naam jap or not?
     
  16. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI Fateh.

    A NIGURA is a person who has NO GURU. Bhai Amardass Ji ahd been going to Ganga Baths and Mata Ji pilgrimages for nearly 30 years...and one day he met a Sadhu who liked him and told hi..BHai sahib Jee i am impressed by your deication..I would like to Eat the food you cook. Once he had eaten, the sadhu asked Bhai ji..by the way who is YOUR GURU ? Bhai Amardass ji replied I have NONE...THOOH THOOH THOOH replied the sadhu...you are a NIGURA..you have ruined all my years of Bhagtee..and thats wehn Bhai Amardass Ji felt he ahd been wasting his time..and set out to look for GURU ANGAD JI..at the ripe old age of 65+

    My purpose in telling this episode is that a GURU is VITAL. All through the Yugs the GURU alwasy gave DIKHYA to a CHELA..INITIATION RITES. Without the Initiation Rite no one could be a Chela. A YOGI had to be buried up to his neck, and his ears torn to accomodate a pair of Blobs of glass and then only could he call himslef a YOGI....simialr initiation rites were for all sects. Guru nanak Ji to Guur teg bahadur Ji..the initiation rite was CHARAN PAHUL..

    When in 1699 Guru gobind Rai ji initiated the PUNJ into the KHALSA..and then TOOK the PAHUL from THEM to transform from Guru Gobind rai to GURU GOBIND SINGH..this INITIATION RITE of Khanda Batte dee Pahul became the SIKH PAHUL. Thus the PUNJ in the Form of GURU GOBIND SINGH JI now Give this PAHUL to those who seek it.
    Thus ONLY the PAHUL ABHILAKHEES are given the Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji KI fateh "WAHEGURU" GURMANTAR. ONLY after this PAHUL Ceremony of DIKHYA..can an initiate call himself KHALSA and recite WAHEGURU.

    Since 1699 NO SINGLE PERSON..no matter how holy exalted baba ji mahraj ji, satguru ji guru ji whatever...can GIVE this GURMANTAR PAHUL to anyone...ONLY the PUNJ CAN. And even the FIVE KHALSA Ji can give this Gurmantar in the PRESENCE of GURU GRANTH JI SAHIB ONLY..no where else.

    Without being a member of the Khalsa...the word "waheguru" is just a word. Just like i can say i am "doctor"..but without the Authorised "degree" from an authorised medical university Board...the word "doctor" is just a word...no body can stop me from saying i am a doctor..but it just wont work. To get full benefit from WAHEGURU GURMANTAR..one MUST recieve it as GURU DIKHYA from the PUNJ KHALSA in the presence of GURU Granth ji.

    Without "Khande batte de pahul"..you can Japp any of the Kiratm naams of Waheguru that occur in GURBANI..you can jap har har, hari hari, gobind gobind...all HELP...but the ULTIMATE is WAHEGURU. IF you can reach the PEAK of Everest...why be satisfied with the plains of BIHAR..although no harm done if BIIHAR satisfies you..aapo aapnee marzee hai. Remember Har har etc EXISTED before GURU NANAK JYOT...IF they were "sufficent" there was no need for GURU JI to come..but GURU JI came to offer this better faster solution...in KALYUG.

    Har Gunn SUNNEH..is "LISTENING". Har gunnParddeh..is also LISTENING..and this is only possible through Naam japp..and that will lead you to Har Gunn samaieea...immersion

    Gyaan Shabds are to Give GYAAN..the "how to"..and the Naam japp shabads are the RESULT of "how to". Our ultimate aim is RESULT ORIENTED....reading the RECIPE is fine..raed it again and again to memeorise it...so as to be perfect..BUT the TEST is in the TASTE of the CAKE we bake from the RECIPE...the more we "know" the recipe..the better will be our cake...the more we read the GYAAN shabds..the Tastier will be our Naam japp..bt the ULTIMATE RESULT is NAAM JAPP - without this..NO MUKTEE..we have to present our CAKE...not tell GOD..we read your recipe a million times...sorry no time to bake a cake !!

    Jarnail Singh Gyani
     
  17. jagmeet

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    Gyaniji,
    So,is there no hope for the non-baptised?Is his or her bhakti no bhakti at all?Is naam jap by such a person futile?
     
  18. gs_chana

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    WJKWJF,

    Jagmeet, unfortunately the whole meaning of what exactly is amrit has been confused by many over the years, through misunderstandings of gurbani.

    In gurbani it is written in countless places that salvation/muktee can only be achieved through absorbing amrit.

    Amrit is God, God is pure, God is without Sin, and by absorbing God in our minds, his name begins to automatically chant, his praises in your mind, NOT OUT LOUD, are chanted in your mind (as per japji Sahib). One needs to understand that the whole meaning of amrit is misunderstood.

    Gyani Ji, knows more than a manmukh like me, but I have read sufficient texts and have been given explanations as to the meaning of such phrases by Giani Nasib Singh Dhillon, and he had explained to me that Amrit is not the one you take through the Panj Piari. That amrit is of symbolism, it symobilises the unity of one man to another, under a common khalsa flag, when amrit is taken we all take a sip out of the same bowl. It makes us feel strong, it has its symbolist power.

    However, Jagmeet, you shall attain salvation through meditation on God's Name, and such meditation should be done walking, sleeping, sitting (uttath, behtath, sovath jagath, hari jas gayehai).

    Sikhism is universal, you are a sikh by following gurbani and living life according to it. any person can be as sikh, a muslim, hindu, etc. Because as per Guru Gobind, religion is only by name, every one on this earth is a human. As a human, we need guidance as to how to live life. That is where Guruji Comes. He gives us the guidance, thus, read gurbani (in english translated is you wish) and follow it...apply it to your life, and then and then only can you be a sikh, and the same applies to me...I am not a sikh...how dare i call myself such sikh...i may be identified as a sikh...but call yourself a sikh only if you live by guru's command, and dare I say I am not practicing what I preach, though I do try to help others on the same journey as me (vand keh shakho; share you knowledge with others on the common path to God).

    And when you read gurbani, you will find in countless places, that the only way to attain salvation, is through Naam Japu, no other method.

    So in response to your question, you will achieve salvation if you meditate on God's Name, but do take the Amrit (Khanda Wala) if you wish to come within the fold of the Khalsa. You can still acieve salvation without being Baptised, for a non-sikh who is not baptised can still achieve salvation through his/her respective religion, so can a human being who is a follower of Guru Granth, as the common goal of man is salvation. Guruji is a teacher, who says to his student, a Sikh, you may only achieve salvation through continuous rememebrance of God. Other acts are fruitless and just ritualistic.

    Thank you for your time, sorry if I had gone on a tangent, and made no sense half way through, lolz, and for any offence I may have caused.

    WJKWJF Gurdip
     
  19. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI fateh.

    Veer Gurdip Singh ji is quite right. The INITIATION CEREMONY we KHALSA JI go through is correctly called "KHANDE BATTE DEE PAHUL"...it is a PAHUL CEREMONY...meant to INITIATE a new Member of the KHALSA.

    GURU GOBIND RAI Ji was already a GURU....BUT more importanly He was NOT a "member" of the KHALSA..and that is precisely WHY GURU JI also KNELT DOWN before the PUNJ on Bent Knee and REQUESTED the PAHUL and transformed into GURU GOBIND SINGH JI.

    SECONDLY..until Vasakhi 1699....there was always ONLY ONE GURU...and Only a GURU could Give PAHUL. Guru nanak ji gave CHARAN PAHUL/NAAM to Bhai Lehana Ji to make Him GURU ANGAD..and so on.
    Guru Gobind Singh ji MERGED His Divine DEH into the KHALSA ( Collective GURU)..and now this KHALSA GURU can give this PAHUL..the world over. Until Vasakhi 1699..any SIKH wanting to take PAHUL..had to travel to the Prevailing GURU....in Guru nanak ji's time..every one had to come to GURU NANAK JI ONLY. ..in 1699, the PUNJ travelled to anand PUR SAHIB from all over INDIA. No one else could initiate a SIKH into SIKHI...Now the GURU-KHALSA is World Wide...perfectly suited to today's circumstances.

    2. The PAHUL ceremony has existed since the beginning of time...each sect, each religion had its own. Even today..to become a MUSLIM..you have to go through an "initiation ceremony"...to become a Christian you ahve to go through a "Baptism Ceremony"..etc etc. NO one can just become a "christian" by reading the Bible at home...or proclaim himself aMuslim by reading the Koran..SIMILARLY NO ONE can declare Himself a KHALSA by just reading "Gurbani" at his own home..He she will have to Present before the PUNJ KHALSA...fro the Khande Batte dee PAHUL...and be admitted to the Khalsa Brotherhood.

    Hvaing said that..the "AMRIT" mentioned in GURBANI...is NAAM AMRIT. A few times "amrit" also means Milk, water, Ghee etc...BUT 99.9% of the time in Gurbani..of ALL Gurus, Bhagats etc..AMRIT= NAAM.

    Khande Batte dee PAHUL has been wrongly popularised as "Amrit" - IT is NOT. Its always been Khande Batte dee PAHUL..as in PEEVOH PAHUL KHANDE DHAAR HOVEH JANAM SOHELA...WAHO WAHO GURU GOBIND SINGH JI...AAPE GUR CHELA.

    The World has always been very clear...There are the LEADERS..the GURUS..the KINGS...and the FOLLOWERS..the PUBLIC. In the FIRST HISTORIC UPHEAVEL of all time...GURU GOBIND SINGH JI became the FIRST GURU to be BOTH..GURU and CHELA...KING and SUBJECT...LEADER and FOLLOWER at the SAME TIME. This has never happened before and Never happend Since..and most probably will never happen again.

    Now I come to the..."SO there is NO HOPE..for the unbaptised ??....blah blah blah..

    NO SUCH THING...at least in GURMATT anyway. Guru nanak JYOT is for the ENTIRE WORLD..GURBANI is UNIVERSAL TRUTH...for everybody irrespective of creed colour race height weight place of residence etc etc etc etc. Guru nanak ji or the Other Gurus Bhagats NEVER claimed SOLE RIGHT to MUKTEE/SALVATION.

    But then whats the "problem" ??

    Let me take a worldy example. MY son struggles through elementary school, secondary, high, college, University..post graduate etc...and achieves Dr. So and So. My neighbour's son is absolutley hopelss...cant even spell a decent four letter word correctly.

    So can his father come to me and say.."SO Gyani Ji..NO HOPE for my son ahh...?
    Why NOT ?? Just because his so and so cant read and write..doesnt mean he cant earn an honest living..as a carpenter/mechanic..bricklayer ??? He CANT be a DOCTOR/UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR..but we cant say He has NO HOPE !! can we ??

    SAME ANSWER HERE...Millions of Sages and Bhagats etc have come and Gone...Many came BEFORE GURU NANAK...and MANY did bhagtee naam japp etc etc. Many more MILLIONS NEVER prayed a single time in their life...REad JAPJI SAHIB...ASAANKH this and ASANKH That...BUT ?? then what ??

    THEY have ALL GOT their JUST DESSERTS...there are FIVE KHANDS...and many other places for Each and Everyone....surely EACH one irrespective of being a murderer like Hitler and a Humanitarian like MK Gandhi..and Divines like Gurus bhagats etc CANNOT be ALL put in one PLACE...

    IN SIKHI..we have a "SIKH"....and He can progress to KHALSA....and DONT get me WRONG..becoming an AMRITDHAREE KHALSA ( PAHUL) is NOT the END..it is the BEGINNING. The KHALSA is the EMPTY VESSEL...now he must begin to Fill this empt vessel with NAAM AMRIT..from Gurbani and Naam japping. Any one who thinks He has a VISA and Booked Ticket to SACH KHAND the moment he stepped out of PAHUL CEREMONY is an EMPTY VESSEL...a DONKEY in LION's CLOTHING...he is fooling no one but HIMSELF.

    There is NO FORCE..no compulsion...anyone is perfectly acceptable to remain just a "sikh" (Elementary school kid)..but anyone else wishing to progress further is ENCOURAGED....but if you think with a Doctorate Degree in your Hand you are the end all and be all...then YOU are the Biggest Fool of all time. Parrh Parrh gaddee ladhiyaeh..is like Donkey carrying a library on his back..With a "DOCTRATE DEGREE" on your wall is when the REALLY HARD WORK BEGINS...

    Guru nanak Jyot and Gurbani is never "exclusive"... Gurbani preaches that each of us has his own LEVEL...Depths of the Pacific Trench...to the Peaks of Everest...and anywhere in Between..Take your PICK..and be happy.

    Hope this clarifies matters..IF still got queries..happy to elaborate even further..

    jarnail singh gyani:whisling:
     
  20. jagmeet

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    Thanks for your replies Gurdip and Gyaniji.I still have a few questions gyaniji.You compare one who has taken pahul to a doctorate,and one who has not to an elementary school kid.Why?
    If a person takes pahul,does he instantly graduate from an elementary school kid to a doctorate?

    One more question:-say two persons A(non-baptised) and B(baptised) do equal amount of naam jap in their life-times.Does A earn less marks than B?If so why?

    One final question which I don't think has been answered.In your reply prior to this you said that:-
    "Without being a member of the Khalsa...the word "waheguru" is just a word. Just like i can say i am "doctor"..but without the Authorised "degree" from an authorised medical university Board...the word "doctor" is just a word...no body can stop me from saying i am a doctor..but it just wont work."

    My question then is:-are you implying that japping 'waheguru' won't work for the non-baptised?Do you mean by 'won't work' that it would be of no benefit?
     
  21. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI fateh.

    well here goes. in my humble opinion and from what i have learnt so far..its of no use at all..UNTIL the moment one has taken on a "GURU"..through PAHUL ( in the case of earlier Gurus from Guur nanak ji..it was CHARAN PAHUL...and in the case of others like Yogis..for example it was being buried neck deep in the ground and the Master/Guur would chant a mantar in his ear, and then his EARS would be Pierced..and blobs put in and from then on he could be "mundraan wala JOGI"..etc etc. Each sect has its own "PAHUL..INITIATION CEREMONY.

    Bhai Lehan Ji..first got "Charan pahul"....that is received acceptance as a SIKH of Guru Ji...then ON He had to NAAM JAPP the Naam that Guru Ji gave him ( this is the REAL SEWA of NAAM that has to be performed until one can attain a status..like Bhai Lehna Ji attained GURU STATUS AFTER many many YEARS of Naam japp).

    As I have already explained via my writing on BHAI AMARDASS JI..of How Bhai Ji..went to MANDIRS and TEERATHS and PILGRIMAGES...chanting the MANTRAS of the VEDAS etc fro nearly 30 YEARS... but WITHOUT any "PAHUL" or acceptance of a "GURU"...All this was FUTILE EFFORT. This is NOT to say that the GURU must be a SIKH GURU...the sadhu that claimed bhai amardass ji destroyed all his naam kamaii due to feeding him food "cooked by a NIGURA" was NOT talking to a SIKH GURU..but to a "GURU" ( of any sect).
    THIS MAJOR "volcanic eruption" in Bhai Amardass Ji's life..."WHAT have I been doing..all my 30 years of pikgrimages teeraths yatras etc have all been in VAIN.all because I DONT have a GURU ?? was the sole reason Bhai Amardass Ji went ACTIVELY looking for a GURU...and that GURU happened to be GURU ANGAD Ji.
    Then when Bhai Amardass Ji accepted "PAHUL" from Guru Angad Ji and became a GURUWALLAH...he still had to do SEWA of NAAM fro another 12 YEARS...Before He attained the Status of GURU.

    So to answer your question...NO WAY can a SIKH....just walk out of a Khanda batte de pahul ceremony and CLAIM...I HAVE ARRIVED !! PERIOD...just like Bhai lehna Ji and Bhai Amardass ji spent DECADES..AFTER Taking "PAHUL". As I said earlier..the PAHUL ceremony is JUST the BEGINNING...the ABC...and to reach XYZ...is a LIFE TIME's SEWA of NAAM.

    IN Spiritual realm...a "GURU WALLAH" and a NIGURA are different stages. My comparison to an "academic school system" lacks a certain **.
    What do i mean ? I mean...that even in an ordinary school system...a child cannot "Stay at home" until he reaches the age of say 20..and then Go sit for the Higher School Certificate Exam or ...B.A. Exam. He can "claim all he likes..that i KNOW my stuff...my dad taught me everything...whatever...the Education Authorities will ask him...WHICH Primary school did you attend ? SHOW your SCHOOL Certificates...your Secondary school certs...and then you can SIT for the EXAM !!! IF a
    "NIGURA STUDENT" ( student that studied at home privately without a school registration ) cannot hope to get past this RULE of "registration is VITAL"..how can a "NIGURA" (non-Baptised) sikh hope to get past the rules....who gave him the "naam to japp" ?? NOBODY !! Self study doesnt work in this world..and it doesnt work in the spiritual one either.

    This is NOT MY OPINION..I have already given you the Examples from Bhai lehana Ji. Bhai Amardass jis LIFE.
    Each GURU...wrote "GURBANI" after becoming GURU....Guru Amardass Ji was at age 73 when He became GURU....can you explain he never wrote a single line of poetry until age 73..and from 73 onwards he wrote a MASTERPIECE like anand SAHIB ?? a Masterpiece that rivals the japji of Guru nanak ji !!

    This is proof that there are STAGES in a person's LIFE...Progress from Stage A to B to C to D..and so on...and YOU ahve to BEGIN from A...and NO WAY someone can ignore that and begin from XY..touvch base and declare I am FIRST...reached Z the moment i chhak "pahul" !! it just doesnt happen that way..not from our Guru Ji's examples.

    Now to "it wont work" or "of no beenfit".
    NAAM of WAHEGURU.. is like the "Doctor's prescription" ( GURU's Prescription") Now we can self-medicate..by buying off the shelf...it may work..it may be of some benefit..but the WISE will NOT take this way. WHY on earth would one want to "self medicate" when the DOCTOR is FREE and available 24/7. Isnt that due to "EGO"..why the ehck should i go to the Punj ? when I can naam japp all by myself ?...or who got time man..whats the hurry anyway ?/ etc OR..it is actually "personal WEAKNESS..perceived or real...failure/scared of making the COMMITTMENT...oh i cant do that if i chhak amrit...or i will have to discipline myself..and i cant do that just yet.. SIKHI is WALLON NIKKEE...thinner than a human hair...KHANDE DHAAR...as SHARP as a Sword Blade...its Sheer DISCIPLINE...why do you think Guru Gobind Singh ji calls those who "sham amritdharees" without discipline as DONKEYS in LIONS CLOTHING ?? These think they have "fooled" the GURU by taking PAHUL, becoming GURUWALLAH..but having NO INTENTION to do the "NAAM JAPP SEWA"..so what does this prove..EVEN A "SHAM" Amrtidharee is WORTHLESS...so what about one who is NOT even a SHAM Amrtidharee ?? How could he be of any worth ??

    Dont make the mistake of thinking only GURU Gobind Singh ji.."invented" thsi pahul thing.. Guru nanak ji already declared 500 years ago...Jis Prem Khelan ka Chao.SIR DHAR TALI Galee meri aaao... Guru nanak ji WANTS YOUR HEAD on YOUR PALM...even before He accepts YOU...as His "LOVER".

    Summary:
    Answer to Question One. NO
    Answer to Q. 2 - LESS or NONE.
    (Exampe of Life of 30 years of Bhai Amardass ji's life BEFORE he met Guru angad Ji)
    Q. 3 - WAHEGURU is the NAAM given by the PUNJ KHALSA ONLY....it is for SINGHS of GURU JI only. Anybody ( irrespective of whther he is born sikh etc ) who DOESNT bother to get it...is NOT a SINGH as far as this requirement is concerned. No one is forced or compelled..its a free world. The "others" have their own....no comment on whether a "hindu" will go to heaven from japping Hari om..or whether a Christain can go to heaven on just Jesus etc.

    Thanks for a good discussion..
    Please continue to ask and enquire..SIKHI is Learning...unlearning...and RE-LEARNING...until the day we DIE..we continue to LEARN..

    Jarnail singh gyani
     

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