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Who is the Guru of Guru Naanak Dev Jee?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Archived_member2, Aug 7, 2007.

  1. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all!

    Guru Naanak Dev Jee is singing.
    ਮੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਛਿ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਥਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    मै आपणा गुरु पूछि देखिआ अवरु नाही थाउ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Mai āpṇā gur pūcẖẖ ḏėkẖi*ā avar nāhī thā*o. ||1|| rahā*o. SGGS Ang 14-4

    I asked my Guru and saw no other place.

    Can someone please explain who is the Guru of Guru Naanak Dev Jee He is referring in this Vaak? I will be grateful.


    Balbir Singh
     
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  3. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    The guru of guru nanak dev ji was god.i don't think rthere is any mention of living guru of guru nanak dev ji in sikh history.
     
  4. GURVINDER

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    GURU NANAK DEV IS TELLING ABOUT GOD "I consulted my Guru, and now I see that there is no other place at all."
    THE ABOVE WRITTEN LINES ARE THE MEANINGS OF THat SHABAD BUT IN OTHER CONTEXT THE GURU OF GURU NANAK HERE IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD.
    NO ONE WAS SUPERERE THAN GURU NANAK DEV EXCEPT ALMIGHTY GOD
     
  5. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all!

    Quote from Kds1980 Jee "The guru of guru nanak dev ji was god.i don't think rthere is any mention of living guru of guru nanak dev ji in sikh history."
    I hope we agree that Guru Naanak Dev Jee asked His Guru as recorded in the referred Vaak.

    **************

    Gurvinder Jee wrote 'BUT IN OTHER CONTEXT THE GURU OF GURU NANAK HERE IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD.' and 'NO ONE WAS SUPERERE THAN GURU NANAK DEV EXCEPT ALMIGHTY GOD'
    I do not understand how GURU NANAK IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD and simultaneously NO ONE WAS SUPERIOR TO GURU NANAK DEV EXCEPT ALMIGHTY GOD. Are the Almighty God and Guru Naanak Dev Jee the same or different?


    Balbir Singh
     
  6. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    All is God.
    Sabad Guru Surat Dhun Chela(Sidh Gost).
     
  7. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    dear balbir singh ji

    If there was any living guru of guru nanak dev ji then why there is no mention of him in sikh history and in bani?Why do we say that guru nanak dev ji is the first guru.

    ਨਾਨਕਿ ਰਾਜੁ ਚਲਾਇਆ ਸਚੁ ਕੋਟੁ ਸਤਾਣੀ ਨੀਵ ਦੈ ॥
    नानकि राजु चलाइआ सचु कोटु सताणी नीव दै ॥
    Nānak rāj cẖalāiā sacẖ kot saṯāṇī nīv ḏai.
    Nanak established the kingdom; He built the true fortress on the strongest foundations.

    Now in guru granth sahib it is written that Guru nanak dev ji established the the kingdom
     
  8. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In Sikh religion the word 'Guru' has been used in three inter-related aspects:

    Firstly it is used for God, the All-Pervading Divine Spirit, the Divine Light:
    'The Guru is Beneficent, the Sanctuary of peace, The Guru is the Light of three worlds, He is the Eternal Being, O Nanak, he who believeth in Him, attaineth peace.' (Slok Mohalla 1, p-137) 'The Guru is All-Powerful, The Guru is the Formless Lord, The Guru is the Highest, Fathomless and Limitless, Ineffable is His praise; what can a sayer say?' (Sri Rag Mohalla 5, p-52) 'The Guru is Infinite God Himself Nanak, meditate upon such a Guru day and night.' (Asa Mohalla 5, p-387)

    Secondly the word 'Guru' is also used for Guru Nanak as he was the Embodiment of God's Light:
    'Guru Nanak is the perfect Guru, With the true Guru I meditateth upon God.' (Ramkali Mohalla 4, p-882) 'Guru Nanak is the true Guru, The true Guru taketh me to God.' (Kanra Mohalla 4, p-1310) 'The Guru and God are one , Divine Master pervadeth everywhere.' (Sri Rag Mohalla 5, p-53)

    Thirdly the word 'Guru' is used for Gurbani, the Divine Word. Since Gurbani came direct from God, and as there is no difference between God and His order (Divine Word), Gurbani is Guru too:
    'The Word is the Guru, And the Guru is the Word, The Guru's Word is full of life-giving Elixir, Whosoever shall obey, what the Word commandeth, Verily he shall get salvation.' (Nat Mohalla 4, p-982) 'The Word is the True Guru and True Guru is the Word, And the Word revealeth the path of salvation.' (Kanra Mohalla 4, p-1310)

    A Gateway to Sikhism

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    So its quite clear that guru nanak dev ji used word guru for god.
     
  9. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
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    Dear Balbir Singh ji


    As I can understand

    As Nothin exist except the ONE

    So here in this Vaak ONE is Refering to ONE


    And the ONE is GOD/ALMIGHTY/THETRUTH...and endless


    Thanks

    Jatinder Singh
     
  10. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all!

    Quote from Vijaydeep Jee "All is God."
    Quote from Jatinder Jee "As Nothin exist except the ONE . . .So here in this Vaak ONE is Refering to ONE . . .And the ONE is GOD/ALMIGHTY/THETRUTH...and endless."
    They need two when somebody asks someone. In complete ONENESS No need remains to write or ask anything. All questions are gone where only ONE exists. Is it not so?

    Quote from Kds1980 Jee "If there was any living guru of guru nanak dev ji then why there is no mention of him in sikh history and in bani?Why do we say that guru nanak dev ji is the first guru."
    The curiosity is about the Guru of Guru Naanak Dev Jee whom He talked with and asked the question.

    Quote "So its quite clear that guru nanak dev ji used word guru for god."
    Does this explain? Sabad Guru is Sabad God? Lately I bought a new Sateek at the Gurdwara that is full of Sabads. Still, I do not feel I have bought God. Why?


    Balbir Singh
     
  11. Huck_Finn

    Huck_Finn
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    here is the complete reference

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
    ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
    Ik­oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

    ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ਪਹਿਲਾ ਘਰੁ
    रागु सिरीरागु महला पहिला १ घरु १ ॥
    Rāg sirīrāg mehlā pahilā 1 gẖar 1.
    Raag Siree Raag, First Mehl, First House:

    ਮੋਤੀ ਮੰਦਰ ਊਸਰਹਿ ਰਤਨੀ ਹੋਹਿ ਜੜਾਉ
    मोती त मंदर ऊसरहि रतनी त होहि जड़ाउ ॥
    Moṯī ṯa manḏar ūsreh raṯnī ṯa hohi jaṛā­o.
    If I had a palace made of pearls, inlaid with jewels,

    ਕਸਤੂਰਿ ਕੁੰਗੂ ਅਗਰਿ ਚੰਦਨਿ ਲੀਪਿ ਆਵੈ ਚਾਉ
    कसतूरि कुंगू अगरि चंदनि लीपि आवै चाउ ॥
    Kasṯūr kungū agar cẖanḏan līp āvai cẖā­o.
    scented with musk, saffron and sandalwood, a sheer delight to behold -

    ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੧॥
    मतु देखि भूला वीसरै तेरा चिति न आवै नाउ ॥१॥
    Maṯ ḏėkẖ bẖūlā vīsrai ṯėrā cẖiṯ na āvai nā­o. ||1||
    seeing this, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||1||

    ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਜੀਉ ਜਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ
    हरि बिनु जीउ जलि बलि जाउ ॥
    Har bin jī­o jal bal jā­o.
    Without the Lord, my soul is scorched and burnt.

    ਮੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਛਿ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਥਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    मै आपणा गुरु पूछि देखिआ अवरु नाही थाउ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Mai āpṇā gur pūcẖẖ ḏėkẖi­ā avar nāhī thā­o. ||1|| rahā­o.
    I consulted my Guru, and now I see that there is no other place at all. ||1||Pause||

    ਧਰਤੀ ਹੀਰੇ ਲਾਲ ਜੜਤੀ ਪਲਘਿ ਲਾਲ ਜੜਾਉ
    धरती त हीरे लाल जड़ती पलघि लाल जड़ाउ ॥
    Ḏẖarṯī ṯa hīrė lāl jaṛ­ṯī palagẖ lāl jaṛā­o.
    If the floor of this palace was a mosaic of diamonds and rubies, and if my bed was encased with rubies,

    ਮੋਹਣੀ ਮੁਖਿ ਮਣੀ ਸੋਹੈ ਕਰੇ ਰੰਗਿ ਪਸਾਉ
    मोहणी मुखि मणी सोहै करे रंगि पसाउ ॥
    Mohṇī mukẖ maṇī sohai karė rang pasā­o.
    and if heavenly beauties, their faces adorned with emeralds, tried to entice me with sensual gestures of love -

    ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੨॥
    मतु देखि भूला वीसरै तेरा चिति न आवै नाउ ॥२॥
    Maṯ ḏėkẖ bẖūlā vīsrai ṯėrā cẖiṯ na āvai nā­o. ||2||
    seeing these, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||2||

    ਸਿਧੁ ਹੋਵਾ ਸਿਧਿ ਲਾਈ ਰਿਧਿ ਆਖਾ ਆਉ
    सिधु होवा सिधि लाई रिधि आखा आउ ॥
    Siḏẖ hovā siḏẖ lā­ī riḏẖ ākẖā ā­o.
    If I were to become a Siddha, and work miracles, summon wealth

    ਗੁਪਤੁ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ਬੈਸਾ ਲੋਕੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਭਾਉ
    गुपतु परगटु होइ बैसा लोकु राखै भाउ ॥
    Gupaṯ pargat ho­ė baisā lok rākẖai bẖā­o.
    and become invisible and visible at will, so that people would hold me in awe -

    ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੩॥
    मतु देखि भूला वीसरै तेरा चिति न आवै नाउ ॥३॥
    Maṯ ḏėkẖ bẖūlā vīsrai ṯėrā cẖiṯ na āvai nā­o. ||3||
    seeing these, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||3||

    ਸੁਲਤਾਨੁ ਹੋਵਾ ਮੇਲਿ ਲਸਕਰ ਤਖਤਿ ਰਾਖਾ ਪਾਉ
    सुलतानु होवा मेलि लसकर तखति राखा पाउ ॥
    Sulṯān hovā mėl laskar ṯakẖaṯ rākẖā pā­o.
    If I were to become an emperor and raise a huge army, and sit on a throne,

    ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹਾਸਲੁ ਕਰੀ ਬੈਠਾ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਸਭ ਵਾਉ
    हुकमु हासलु करी बैठा नानका सभ वाउ ॥
    Hukam hāsal karī baiṯẖā nānkā sabẖ vā­o.
    issuing commands and collecting taxes-O Nanak, all of this could pass away like a puff of wind.

    ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੪॥੧॥
    मतु देखि भूला वीसरै तेरा चिति न आवै नाउ ॥४॥१॥
    Maṯ ḏėkẖ bẖūlā vīsrai ṯėrā cẖiṯ na āvai nā­o. ||4||1||
    Seeing these, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||4||1||
     
    #10 Huck_Finn, Aug 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  12. TGill

    TGill
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    SSA All,
    Answering to Balbir ji's question, he has bought the steek of shabd's but does that mean that he has bought god.

    Shabad is not something that is written on the piece of paper or spoken by mouth. Any language is a creation of mind and thus can't contain god, for divinity is unfathomable, uncontainable, unspeakable. Mind can't reach it.

    Shabad is something within, something inside us, the word that is written in SGGS (or the steek you bought) when heard and contemplated raises a stream of love within. An essence like a smell of sandalwood start flowing up (I am not saying this literally, just using a metaphor for not availability of anything better to explain it).
    It is this essence which is shabad, THE GURU (call it love, call it whatever for no one can explain it) . Is it this essence which takes the meditator to the Sunn samadhi as the tenth gate opens up and the meditator is full of ecstacy from the anhad music.
    This is the Guru which Guru Nanak talked about. Even if you chant waheguru thousand of time, it won't be the shabd Guru Nanak talked about. It can at the most induce sleep. The real shabd will arise when comtemplating this outer word 'Waheguru', an inner stream of real shabad arise.

    bhu chuk maaf
     
  13. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all and TGill Jee!

    Quote "Shabad is not something that is written on the piece of paper or spoken by mouth."
    How does one come to know it then? Please explain.

    Quote "Shabad is something within, something inside us, the word that is written in SGGS (or the steek you bought) when heard and contemplated raises a stream of love within. An essence like a smell of sandalwood start flowing up (I am not saying this literally, just using a metaphor for not availability of anything better to explain it)."
    O Really. I was always surprised why some Gurdwaras smell so good.

    Quote "Even if you chant waheguru thousand of time, it won't be the shabd Guru Nanak talked about."
    I have heard many preachers pleading for chanting Waheguru thousand of times. Other experts plead to be aware of not counting it.

    Quote "It can at the most induce sleep."
    It sounds like a multiplied experience.

    Quote "The real shabd will arise when comtemplating this outer word 'Waheguru', an inner stream of real shabad arise."
    May I ask? So many are searching 'Waheguru' in the inner word. Should they better contemplate 'Waheguru' as the outer word?

    Thanks for your efforts.


    Balbir Singh
     
  14. TGill

    TGill
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    Balbir ji , I really like the way you question everything.
    I think you are really funny, only you ask your questions so seriously.
    I'm sure you will ask question on these statements above as well. :)

    Well to anwer your questions:
    Quote How does one come to know it then? Please explain.
    When a person totally loses his mind :). Again I don't mean literally :)

    Quote I was always surprised why some Gurdwaras smell so good.
    So am I when the smell out there is not so good, probably cos of people who just sleep out there.:)
    However, kabir ji says - ultat pavan chakra khatu bhede surati sunn anaragi—GG, 333 (which is again metaphorical)... and thus easier to question

    Quote I have heard many preachers pleading for chanting Waheguru thousand of times. Other experts plead to be aware of not counting it.
    - Is it ? but how are they aware of being not counting :)

    Quote: It sounds like a multiplied experience.
    Why multiplied ? why not divided, or no experience at all.

    Quote May I ask? So many are searching 'Waheguru' in the inner word. Should they better contemplate 'Waheguru' as the outer word?
    the Word waheguru is outside, but how can contemplate it outwardly, is it possible ??? :)

    Thanks for questioning. I really love them.
     
  15. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    TGill ji

    Great work, good critical thinking.

    Amarsaghera ji,

    Because you posted the shabad we can see how it is breath-taking in its beauty and depth.
     
  16. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Veer Balbir Singh Ji,

    Guru Nanak Dev Ji's guru is Bani. Or the Celestial Sound Current.
    "Jaise mein aavay Khassam Ki Bani, Taiserra karri gian ve lalo"

    The written word is the expression of the Celestial Sound Current. Trying to post-mortem the word Waheguru, Allah or Ram is like Hanuman trying to find God in the mala (rosary beads). All words of God are just an expression of God. The word, Naam or Shabad are also expressions of the same thing.
    A scientist may want to express water as H2O or a Hindu may call it Jal. These expressions are not going to bring water to you. One has to work towards it in a Rohaniat Way.

    The verse " Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani, Vich Bani Amrit Sarey
    Gurbani Kehay Sewak Jann Manney, Partakh Guru Nistarey."
    Bani and Shabad are the same. "Shabad Guru, Surat Dhun Chela".
    Kindly ponder on this verse:
    "Amrit Bani Har Har Teri, Sun Sun Hovei Param Gat Meri."

    • Within is the Heavenly Light and from it Bani or Sound doth proceed,
      And it doth attune the soul with the true Lord. --Sorath M.1


      A Gurmukh can free millions of souls by the quickening influence
      of his life-impulse (the Holy Naam). --Sorath M.5


      The whole world is going astray in its search for the center of true happiness or bliss. Material objects cannot give us bliss on account of the constant change to which, by their very nature, they are subject, every moment of their existence. Again, external objects per se have no pleasure in themselves, but it is our attachment to them that gives us pleasing sensations. But these objects, on account of their ephemeral nature, have to follow the changing panorama of existence. By these kaleidoscopic changes, the mind naturally gets bewildered, distracted and very often feels miserable. Everlasting Bliss or True happiness can be had only by attachment to something that is permanent, unchanging and eternal. The evanescent charms of Dame Nature cannot afford man any happiness in the true sense of the word.

      Whosoever searches for Joy Eternal, let him seek that
      in All-Pervading Spirit (Naam).--Shalok M.9

     
  17. Huck_Finn

    Huck_Finn
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    good questions TGill ji

    Balbir ji

    your sham has been revealed.
    We can ask convoluted questions and use twisted logic to prove 1=2

    but no one can convince anyone of the truth till the person opens the mind.
     
  18. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all and TGill Jee!

    Quote "How does one come to know it then? Please explain."
    When a person totally loses his mind. Again I don't mean literally.
    My request "Please provide one reference from the Gurus where they say that losing mind is the prerequisite for NAM Simran. I will be thankful."

    Quote "However, kabir ji says - ultat pavan chakra khatu bhede surati sunn anaragi—GG, 333 (which is again metaphorical)... and thus easier to question"
    I hear sometimes even preachers losing pavan downwards. Knowing how some can redirect pavan in the opposite direction will be interesting.
    Is Kabeer Jee talking about some different pavan? Who has come to know it without true Guru and NAM Simran?

    Quote "Quote I have heard many preachers pleading for chanting Waheguru thousand of times. Other experts plead to be aware of not counting it.
    - Is it ? but how are they aware of being not counting?
    I feel they waste the valuable human lifetime in either way, counting it or being aware of rejecting the counting. God's wonder-WILL happens also without true Simran.

    Quote "Quote: It sounds like a multiplied experience.
    Why multiplied ? why not divided, or no experience at all.
    My observation "Because it continues and goes on adding."

    Quote "May I ask? So many are searching 'Waheguru' in the inner word. Should they better contemplate 'Waheguru' as the outer word?"
    the Word waheguru is outside, but how can contemplate it outwardly, is it possible ???
    My curiosity is "Is your question, the answer?"
    One contemplates in mind that is inside all. The word 'Waheguru' is outside. According to you "Shabad is not something that is written on the piece of paper or spoken by mouth." And one comes to know it "when a person totally loses his mind."
    May I ask how one loses his mind and contemplation begins on the outer word 'Waheguru'?

    **************

    Begum Jee wrote "Guru Nanak Dev Ji's guru is Bani. Or the Celestial Sound Current.
    'Jaise mein aavay Khassam Ki Bani, Taiserra karri gian ve lalo'."
    Please explain. Why Guru Naanak Dev Jee's 'Khassam Ki Bani' is not your Khassam Ki Bani?

    Quote "All words of God are just an expression of God."
    Strange. Still, rarely someone realizes God completely.

    Thanks for the wonderful reference from the Guru.
    " Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani, Vich Bani Amrit Sarey
    Gurbani Kehay Sewak Jann Manney, Partakh Guru Nistarey."

    For me 'Partakh Guru' is the present true Guru. For some 'Partakh Gurus' is the paper Guru speaking through the preacher, raagee, paathee, granthee, tape-recorder etc.

    Begum Jee is asking to ponder the true Guru's Vaak "Amrit Bani Har Har Teri, Sun Sun Hovei Param Gat Meri."
    Thanks. The Guru is singing 'Amrit Bani Har Har Teri' Amrit Bani is Hari Hari yours. The Gurus never said that Amrit Bani was their personal speech.
    Preachers know to do business only. They cannot lead people to God. So they teach people to bow down to the printed holy book imitating Guru's words through their mouth.
    I have heard that some Sikh preachers are seriously thinking to patent Gurus words claiming their heritage.'Our Gurus' are the popular words in their vocabulary.

    Quote "Whosoever searches for Joy Eternal, let him seek that
    in All-Pervading Spirit (Naam).--Shalok M.9"
    Please do it. Nevertheless, who tells us that ALL-Pervading is 'Waheguru'?

    **************

    Quote from Amarsanghera Jee "your sham has been revealed."
    Who felt I was hiding any limb?
    In this word two are no more hiding from each other, God and Balbir Singh.


    Balbir Singh
     
  19. TGill

    TGill
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    I knew you are pretty funny balbir ji, you found questionable things in the laughable matter I posted. Awesome !!
    I hardly have seen a person questioning a joke. I really like that, u are just unique.

    The gist you have given in the end is just right i.e. One contemplates in mind that is inside all. The word 'Waheguru' is outside. Shabad is not something that is written on the piece of paper or spoken by mouth. And one comes to know it "when a person totally loses his mind."
    May I ask how one loses his mind and contemplation begins on the outer word 'Waheguru'?

    - Do I really need to answer that ?

    However, One observation, your own questions can be applied to the answers you yourself give. Unbelievable ! please read your post again. A dog is hardly able to catch his own tail howsoever fast he rotate. And it is impossible when the dog is dobberman breed :)
     
  20. TGill

    TGill
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    One more thing Balbir ji, you said:
    In this word two are no more hiding from each other, God and Balbir Singh.

    Please give me a chance to touch your feet. :)
     
  21. Huck_Finn

    Huck_Finn
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    Good luck to u balbir singh ji

    may god bless you with clarity and the end goal every human soul should seek
     

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