Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Who are Sikhs according to the Siri Guru Granth Sahib?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Ozarks, Sep 5, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ozarks

    Ozarks
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    79
    Sat Sri Akaal,
    I would like to know what are the physical traits or characteristics of a Sikh as laid out in the Siri Guru Granth Sahib. Thanks.
    Sat Nam
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Loading...


  3. International Akaali

    International Akaali
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    59
    ਮਃ
    मः ४ ॥
    Mėhlā 4.
    Fourth Mehl:

    ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ
    गुर सतिगुर का जो सिखु अखाए सु भलके उठि हरि नामु धिआवै ॥
    Gur saṯgur kā jo sikẖ akẖā▫e so bẖalke uṯẖ har nām ḏẖi▫āvai.
    One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

    ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਭਲਕੇ ਪਰਭਾਤੀ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ
    उदमु करे भलके परभाती इसनानु करे अम्रित सरि नावै ॥
    Uḏam kare bẖalke parbẖāṯī isnān kare amriṯ sar nāvai.
    Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

    ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਦੋਖ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵੈ
    उपदेसि गुरू हरि हरि जपु जापै सभि किलविख पाप दोख लहि जावै ॥
    Upḏes gurū har har jap jāpai sabẖ kilvikẖ pāp ḏokẖ lėh jāvai.
    Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.

    ਫਿਰਿ ਚੜੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਵੈ ਬਹਦਿਆ ਉਠਦਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ
    फिरि चड़ै दिवसु गुरबाणी गावै बहदिआ उठदिआ हरि नामु धिआवै ॥
    Fir cẖaṛai ḏivas gurbāṇī gāvai bahḏi▫ā uṯẖ▫ḏi▫ā har nām ḏẖi▫āvai.
    Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.

    ਜੋ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਧਿਆਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ
    जो सासि गिरासि धिआए मेरा हरि हरि सो गुरसिखु गुरू मनि भावै ॥
    Jo sās girās ḏẖi▫ā▫e merā har har so gursikẖ gurū man bẖāvai.
    One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.
    ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ
    जिस नो दइआलु होवै मेरा सुआमी तिसु गुरसिख गुरू उपदेसु सुणावै ॥
    Jis no ḏa▫i▫āl hovai merā su▫āmī ṯis gursikẖ gurū upḏes suṇāvai.
    That person, unto whom my Lord and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that GurSikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed.

    ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਧੂੜਿ ਮੰਗੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਕੀ ਜੋ ਆਪਿ ਜਪੈ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥
    जनु नानकु धूड़ि मंगै तिसु गुरसिख की जो आपि जपै अवरह नामु जपावै ॥२॥
    Jan Nānak ḏẖūṛ mangai ṯis gursikẖ kī jo āp japai avrah nām japāvai. ||2||
    Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. ||2||

    Hope I was Help.

    Fateh
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #2 International Akaali, Sep 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  4. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
    Expand Collapse
    Mentor SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    791
    Likes Received:
    1,283
    Unfortunately above pankti is interpreted in such a way that anyone (whether he is a thief, rapist, murderer, gambler etc. or who acts smart and makes correction in His perfection by tempering with hairs) if he get up early in the morning and chant His name is Gursikh which is not correct. It is like sun gala akas ki keeta aaiee rees - On hearing such Divine glory, even the imposter become jealous and start imitating the real saint.

    Best regards
    Mohinder Singh Sahni
    Kuwait
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. Ozarks

    Ozarks
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    79
    I appreciate the posts thus far. Though by traits or characteristics I was hoping for a something of a more physical appearance in nature. I do like the quote from the Siri Guru Granth Sahib and that is one of the few key conditions to who is a Sikh. I guess the impetus for the question was if the Siri Guru Granth Sahib mentions any physical requirements (specifically) or if such requirements were ancillary in source.
     
  6. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    Why Ozarks ji are you interested in physical appearance? There are some tuks in Sri Guru Granth Sahib about this. Now is your time to find these as an outgrowth of daily reading of Sri Guru Granth Sahib. It takes about a year of reading and listening to kathas, and doing Nit Nem too, to be able to recognize at once when a tuk or a vaar is from Japuji Sahib, or Asa di Vaar, or Sohila. You are ready to begin that part of your journey.

    Many question can be answered by consulting the Guru directly. Try it at this link.

    Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji :page :SearchGurbani.com

    Use the search engine to search for hair, turban, and other outward attributes of appearance.


    One learns the shabad by reading and hearing it. One begins to understand the shabad by reflecting on it and discussing it with others who are also seekers.


    A turban, kurta, kirpan, kara, kechera and kanga can be purchased on the Internet in one hour. You can grow a beard in 3 months. The rest of the process - It takes a lifetime to sort out the inner state of being.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  7. Ozarks

    Ozarks
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    79
    The interest is based on a pm conversation with another member on SPN member and some questions that sprang up from there. I had poked around a bit looking but thought maybe there would be or should be a one-stop-shop answer or thread. Could not really find anything that I thought was a "must have" list in the Siri Guru Granth Sahib. I thought maybe I just wasn't looking for it in the right way or something. I thought that it maybe something in a part of the Siri Guru Granth Sahib that I have yet to get to, so I thought I'd ask.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    You can start your systematic study of Sri Guru Granth Sahib right here with the very question you have asked. Use the search engine. Post the shabads. Invite members to discuss their meaning with you. That gives you a sense of the discipline that contributes to growth of your knowledge of the Guru -- a strong start. A search organized by a theme. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    662
    Dear Ozark Ji,

    The simple and concise answer to your question is that in the spiritual sense there is no value of physical traits in the spiritual world as per AGGS.

    Cordially,

    Virinder
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
    Expand Collapse
    Mentor SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    791
    Likes Received:
    1,283
    This is the most misleading statement. Since people started misinterpretting the gurbani tuks as per their convenience by stating,'in the spiritual sense there is no value of physical traits as if God was stupid to bestow hair', or whether you are murderer, rapiest, thief, just chant His name - no matter what you do during day the, the tenth guru had to make a maryada and clearly clarify the four major kureihit - one among them is not to temper with His perfection and shave'. Please pause at this pankti why guru sahib had to state, ' sun gala akash ki keeta aaeeye rees' - upon hearing such divine glory the imposter became jealous started imitating and chanting His name to become spiritual, but guru sahib in next pankti clearly say it is kudi kudai thees - waste of time.

    Best regards
    Mohinder Singh Sahni
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    My personal view, and maybe it is not responsive to the thread topic, but I hope it is, is this.

    At some point the seeker has to stop asking other people what Sri Guru Granth Sahib says, and has to stop depending on their report. At some point the seeker has to put his or her nose into the Granth and to see for himself and herself what Guruji is saying. How does a person learn to swim without getting wet?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. AusDesi

    AusDesi
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    211

    I wanna ask a question here. What qualifies as a beard?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    :D:wah::roll::rofl!!::):rolleyes: I think uncut facial hair below the lip and chin -- as long as nature deigns it to be at any point in its evolution. You really cracked me up this morning when I read the question. Fair question.

    Three months will give you good coverage and about 1 1/2 inches in length - The Beard Community Bulletin Board FAQ
     
  14. AusDesi

    AusDesi
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    211
    :p Why? It was a legitimate question though it might have been wrongly worded. I mean i know the general definition of a beard its just a bit confusing for me in Sikh terms.


    I mean I have seen sikhs with uncut but threadead beards from the edges to make it look better, rough ungroomed beard, glued beards, neatly trimmed beards, very shortly trimmed beards, goatees and even 5 day growth. Im only counting the ones who had a turban.

    I just wanted to know which one of these is actually acceptable. I mean is there a tehnicality in the beard department? Otherwise why would there be so many different styles. Turban i understand because there is no one way to tie a turban but since Sikhs are not allowed to cut hair why are there so many different styles.
     
  15. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    AusDesi ji

    Part of the variation lies in differences in the way beards grow. The distribution of facial hair on individual faces can vary greatly, giving more or thicker growth on the sides from the sideburns, to more under the chin, to more centrally on the chin. This is genetic, and reflects patterns of hair growth that are probably genetic.

    No cutting is the bottom line. No dyeing of hair. Some even say no threaded or braided hair -- I think that is mainly an AKJ rule and have not read it in the Sikh Rehat Maryada. But even with no cutting there are differences in the way the beard grows in.


    Differences in appearance can be related to how a beard is groomed. Some Sikhs will tie their beard with a hair net, some use gel and tuck it under and pin it in place, and some let it flow freely. Others comb through the beard with grooming products or even cocoa butter, giving a tamer appearance. That accounts other aspects of variation.

    An analogy would be identical twins with great uncut mustaches. Both have identical patterns of hair growth, and equal length. One twin waxes his to a point, and the other twin does nothing and the mustache is bushy. Twin number 1 has a handlebar mustache; twin number 2 has a walrus style mustache. So they are structurally similar mustaches, but they look different. The appearance is different in spite of no cutting.

    If I am not comprehending your question, then you can check the Sikh Rehat Maryada to get the basic requirements.
     
  16. AusDesi

    AusDesi
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    211
    I think i got it. So the people who keep a beard which is trimmed are really not following the Maryada even though they make have uncut hair on the head? Now im not sure about the authority of the Maryada but does that mean they are not really sikh?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Embers

    Embers
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    148
    I have not seen it stated but I think an uncut beard could serve as a constant reminder of ones commitment or faith. I cannot think of any hair more itchy and irritating than an unruly moustache or beard. Elegant as it may be. :)
     
  18. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    AusDesi ji

    Now this quesiton is more controversial. The simple answer is NO Cutting Anywhere. Head, beard, and everywhere else, according to the Sikh Rehat Maryada.

    Think of a Sikh who decides to compete as a swimmer. To get better speed swimmers will wax or shave the entire body so that any hair at all will not cause friction and slow him/her down. So the observant Sikh will have to think in terms of how to smooth over the scalp and cannot shave any hair on his body. None.

    That is according to the Sikh Maryada. To address whether any cutting of hair disqualifies someone as a Sikh depends on the degree to which the maryada itself does define Sikh identity. There are many threads in the forum in which the Sikh Rehat Maryada is considered providing the rule for that which cannot be ignored. There are threads in which the Sri Guru Granth Sahib is used to define Sikh identity in relation to hair. There has been recently a Supreme Court Case in India wherein even tweezing of eyebrows by young women who sought seats at university allocated to Sikhs was determined to disqualify them from receiving federal educational benefits as Sikhs becaus. The reasoning was that HAIR has been the one defining feature of a Sikh historically. This would be a legal determination that applies in India. So I recommend that you explore some of those threads to get answers.

    Anyone who follows me with an answer to your question will undoubtably be very clear about the religious and spiritual guidelines that they are using.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Ozarks

    Ozarks
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    79
    AusDesi Ji,
    The Rehat Maryada has the power it does because people agree that it has that power. It is like if you were a Christian would you base your identity on the words written in the Bible or what an encyclopedia/dictionary said was a Christian. One is meant to inspire, the other to define.
    Even there though the Rehat Maryada says:
    [SIZE=-1] CHAPTER 1[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1] The Definition of Sikh :[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1] [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1] Article I[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1] Any human being who faithfully believes in[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1] i. One Immortal Being, [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1] ii. Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib,[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1] iii. The Guru Granth Sahib, [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1] iv. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1] v. the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh
    [/SIZE]
    You will note no mention of the 5 K's in that definition. It doesn't even mention that you have to follow the other things (conduct and conventions) mentioned in the Rehat Maryada. Bear in mind the term "believes" in the first sentence of article 1 when you get down to item 5. A Sikh must belief in the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, not (necessarily) participate in. It does not say Khalsa = Sikh. Though all Khalsa are Sikh, not all Sikh are Khalsa.

    As far as I can find thus far the Siri Guru Granth Sahib seems to contain no explicit physical requirements. I think this owes to its intent to inspire instead of define.

     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    [SIZE=-1]d. Any man or woman of any country, religion or caste who embraces Sikhism and solemnly undertakes to abide by its principles is entitled to ambrosial baptism.The person to be baptised should not be of very young age; he or she should have attained a plausible degree of discretion. The person to be baptised must have taken bath and washed the hair and must wear all five K's-Kesh (unshorn hair), strapped Kirpan (sword),. Kachhehra (prescribed shorts), Kanga (Comb tucked in the tied up hair), Karha (Steel bracelet). He/she must not have on his/her person any token of any other faith. He/she must not have his/her head bare or be wearing a cap. He/she must not be wearing any ornaments piercing through any part of the body. The persons to be baptised must stand respectfully with hands folded facing the Guru Granth Sahib.

    Sikh Reht Maryada, The Definition of Sikh, Sikh Conduct & Conventions, Sikh Religion Living, India

    Forgive me but I am not amritdhari and technically I should not be the one who is teaching.
    [/SIZE]
     
    • Like Like x 3
  21. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    • Like Like x 3
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page