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When It Is Hot, Be That. When It Is Cold, Be That.

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by spnadmin, Nov 12, 2008.

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  1. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    When It is Hot, Be Completely Hot
    When It is Cold, Be Completely Cold


    "One day a monk asked Great Master Tozan
    Gohon, 'How can we avoid hot and cold?'
    Tozan said, 'Why don't you go somewhere
    that is neither hot nor cold?'
    The monk asked, 'Where is a place that is neither hot nor cold?'
    Tozan replied, 'When it is cold, be completely cold;
    when it is hot, be completely hot.'"


    I am wondering whether the ideas expressed in this short vignette are found in the meanings of patience, surrender and detachment as per the Wisdom of Guruji.
     
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  3. pk70

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    Aad Jio,


    In metaphoric expression of cold and hot, here are Gur- bachan to ponder over
    ਬੁਰਾ ਭਲਾ ਜੇ ਸਮ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਇਨ ਬਿਧਿ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਰਮਤੁ ਰਹੈ
    Burā balā je sam kar jāai in biḏẖ sāhib rama rahai. ||8||
    One who recognizes bad and good as one and the same - in this way he is absorbed into the Lord Master. ||8||
    ਮਃ 1
    ਦੁਖੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਮ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣਾ ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਤੇ ਬਿਰਕਤੁ ਭਇਆ
    uk suk gurmuk sam kar jāā harak sog e birka ba▫i▫ā.
    The Gurmukh looks upon pain and pleasure as one and the same; he remains untouched by joy and sorrow.
    ਮਃ 1
    ਸੋਗੁ ਹਰਖੁ ਦੁਇ ਸਮ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਸਬਦਿ ਉਧਰੈ ਰਹਾਉ
    Sog harak u▫e sam kar jāai gur parsādī saba uḏẖrai. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    He looks upon pleasure and pain alike; by Guru's Grace, he is saved through the Word of the Shabad.( Guru Teachings) ||1||Pause||
    ਮਃ 3
    ਏਕ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸਭ ਸਮ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਨਦਰੀ ਆਵੈ ਸਭੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਸਰਈਆ
    Ėk arisat sab sam kar jāai narī āvai sab barahm pasra▫ī▫ā. ||7||
    With a single, impartial eye, look upon all alike, and see God pervading all( with Lord’s grace). ||7||
    ਮਃ 4
    ਸੁਖੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੋਨੋ ਸਮ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਨੈ ਅਉਰੁ ਮਾਨੁ ਅਪਮਾਨਾ
    Suk uk ono sam kar jānai a▫or mān apmānā.
    One who knows that pain and pleasure are both the same, and honor and dishonor as well,
    ਮਃ 9
    ਚੰਦੁ ਸੂਰਜੁ ਦੁਇ ਸਮ ਕਰਿ ਰਾਖਉ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਜਾਉਗੋ
    Can sūraj u▫e sam kar rāka▫o barahm jo mil jā▫ugo. ||2||
    I look upon both the moon( happinss, stillness, coolness) and the sun( pain, anxiety, sorrow) as the same, and I shall merge in the Light of God. ||2||
    ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ

    :)
     
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  4. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    :) Maybe that Great Master Tozan has come back as respected pk70! The shabad works according to my understanding of Tozan's teaching in this vignette. Let's continue talking.
     
  5. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Aad Ji, here is a shabad of Bhagat Kabeer Ji that touches about the state of
    mind becoming like water that turns cold and hot
    and how to go beyond this state of devotion.

    ਕਬੀਰ ਰੋੜਾ ਹੋਇ ਰਹੁ ਬਾਟ ਕਾ ਤਜਿ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ
    कबीर रोड़ा होइ रहु बाट का तजि मन का अभिमानु ॥
    Kabīr roṛā ho▫e rahu bāt kā ṯaj man kā abẖimān.
    Kabeer, let yourself be a pebble on the path; abandon your egotistical pride.

    ਐਸਾ ਕੋਈ ਦਾਸੁ ਹੋਇ ਤਾਹਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਭਗਵਾਨੁ ॥੧੪੬॥
    ऐसा कोई दासु होइ ताहि मिलै भगवानु ॥१४६॥
    Aisā ko▫ī ḏās ho▫e ṯāhi milai bẖagvān. ||146||
    Such a humble slave shall meet the Lord God. ||146||

    ਕਬੀਰ ਰੋੜਾ ਹੂਆ ਕਿਆ ਭਇਆ ਪੰਥੀ ਕਉ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੇਇ
    कबीर रोड़ा हूआ त किआ भइआ पंथी कउ दुखु देइ ॥
    Kabīr roṛā hū▫ā ṯa ki▫ā bẖa▫i▫ā panthī ka▫o ḏukẖ ḏe▫e.
    Kabeer, what good would it be, to be a pebble? It would only hurt the traveller on the path.

    ਐਸਾ ਤੇਰਾ ਦਾਸੁ ਹੈ ਜਿਉ ਧਰਨੀ ਮਹਿ ਖੇਹ ॥੧੪੭॥
    ऐसा तेरा दासु है जिउ धरनी महि खेह ॥१४७॥
    Aisā ṯerā ḏās hai ji▫o ḏẖarnī mėh kẖeh. ||147||
    Your slave, O Lord, is like the dust of the earth. ||147||

    ਕਬੀਰ ਖੇਹ ਹੂਈ ਤਉ ਕਿਆ ਭਇਆ ਜਉ ਉਡਿ ਲਾਗੈ ਅੰਗ
    कबीर खेह हूई तउ किआ भइआ जउ उडि लागै अंग ॥
    Kabīr kẖeh hū▫ī ṯa▫o ki▫ā bẖa▫i▫ā ja▫o ud lāgai ang.
    Kabeer, what then, if one could become dust? It is blown up by the wind, and sticks to the body.

    ਹਰਿ ਜਨੁ ਐਸਾ ਚਾਹੀਐ ਜਿਉ ਪਾਨੀ ਸਰਬੰਗ ॥੧੪੮॥
    हरि जनु ऐसा चाहीऐ जिउ पानी सरबंग ॥१४८॥
    Har jan aisā cẖāhī▫ai ji▫o pānī sarbang. ||148||
    The humble servant of the Lord should be like water, which cleans everything. ||148||

    ਕਬੀਰ ਪਾਨੀ ਹੂਆ ਕਿਆ ਭਇਆ ਸੀਰਾ ਤਾਤਾ ਹੋਇ
    कबीर पानी हूआ त किआ भइआ सीरा ताता होइ ॥
    Kabīr pānī hū▫ā ṯa ki▫ā bẖa▫i▫ā sīrā ṯāṯā ho▫e.
    Kabeer, what then, if one could become water? It becomes cold, then hot.

    ਹਰਿ ਜਨੁ ਐਸਾ ਚਾਹੀਐ ਜੈਸਾ ਹਰਿ ਹੀ ਹੋਇ ॥੧੪੯॥
    हरि जनु ऐसा चाहीऐ जैसा हरि ही होइ ॥१४९॥
    Har jan aisā cẖāhī▫ai jaisā har hī ho▫e. ||149||
    The humble servant of the Lord should be just like the Lord. ||149||
     
    #4 Astroboy, Nov 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  6. Randip Singh

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    Wow love this post and reply! It got my grey matter working!:happy:
     
  7. spnadmin

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    I am delighted... there is more!
     
  8. jasi

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    S.S.akal ji.

    To reply to this quote is very miss directing and it all depends in what context The High Monk has to say these words which also send message like eye to eye actions.
    In Sikhism is Nimrata and humbleness is reaction taught to us and acceptance of the situation.But if your existence is being threatened you have all the right to defends yourself if the cool addressing is completely ignored by the aggressor.

    Jaspi

     
  9. pk70

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    Namjap ji
    Just want to share in reference to your quoted Shabad of kabeer ji. He says a lot in concept of humbleness, he uses metaphor for humbleness but himself points if that kind of humbleness still hurts others, and one changes stances, it remains in question. Actually humbleness is to be like the Lord who is beyond ego anger etc, who is totally “NIRVAIR”, who love all regardless what his created beings do. It is depth of humbleness, followers to understand. In the aad ji’s quote the wise guy is just saying” blend accordingly instead of being in opposition; in Gurbani” sam kar” taking good or bad equally is a advice- weapon to defeat influence that leads the mind to the state of unbalance.
    Let’s take first example, Kabeer ji takes pebble lying on path for people to walk over it, before inserting his wisdom
    Kabeer ji says as a pebble of path is walked over, same way by getting rid of ego, one should live. By becoming humble without ego, one can unite with the Lord. In the next Vaak Kabeer ji says, wait a minute, if that pebble can still hurt others, what is the use of that kind of humbleness.
    Other example is given of dust; remember, to be humble, people give example of dust, so Kabeer ji questions that humbleness too by saying if it annoys others in any way, then of what use is it?. It is good to be humble like a dust which is on the earth in humble position, people walk over it; however, it also reacts other way too, with one blow of air( outer influence), it goes up and falls on others. That is not humbleness, means even if you act humble, show it but occasionally become a cause to hurt others, it doesn’t serve the purpose of being humble. In other words only qualities of humbleness need to pick up.
    The last example Kabeer ji takes example of water which is popular for its blending nature with every thing. It has that quality of blending but it turns cold and hot too, when water is hot, it can burn. So it doesn’t stay cool but changes by outer influence. It is used for humbleness as per its being cool and nature of blending with all; message is that if one doesn’t stay humble at all cost all the time, that is not humbleness. So what is real humbleness, Kabeer ji stresses, it should be for ever, due to it, none should be hurt, so humbleness should be intact as it is found in Lord’s nature, when Lord’s virtues are acquired, only then one can say
    . ਨਾ ਕੋ ਬੈਰੀ ਨਹੀ ਬਿਗਾਨਾ ਸਗਲ ਸੰਗਿ ਹਮ ਕਉ ਬਨਿ ਆਈ
    Nā ko bairī nahī bigānā sagal sang ham ka▫o ban ā▫ī. ||1||
    No one is my enemy, and no one is a stranger. I get along with everyone. ||1||
    ਮਃ 5
    If there is possibility in us like pebble, dust or water to affect others in bad way too with outer influence, we have deficiency in our humbleness and, we cannot say what Guru ji has said above. This is the way I look at this Shabad.:)
     
    #8 pk70, Nov 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  10. pk70

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    Monk doesn't talk about any attack. Humbleness doesn't stop you to be self defensive in case life is in danger.
     
  11. spnadmin

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    The same is true in many branches of Buddhism. In particular it is important to reject both praise and criticism of one's beliefs. And instead one should only respond to what is true and what is false in the words of others. This is on the plane of dialog. But when one is threatened physically, then even monks give serious thought to how they will react. I will post more about this if you are interested. What is forbidden is obsessive hatred and hostility, mindless violence, and acts of aggression that arise because we cling to beliefs that separate and divide in order to serve the false ego.

    Think of honor killings and violence caused by sexual jealousy, political oppression, wars rising from greed or religious separatism, and things like that. Our Gurus had no time for that. Neither do the Buddhist Masters.

    haumY krY inhkrmI n hovY: Houmai karai nihakaramee na hovai: Those who act in ego do not go beyond Karma (Ang 128).
     
  12. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    jaspi ji

    I am reading back over this thread and what pk70 says above caught my mind the second time around. You know of the martial arts: Kung Fu, judo, jujitzu, Tai Chi Tuan, and others. These were developed by monks as a form of self defense but more importantly as a form of spiritual practice in which "action in inaction" "patience with effort" and "one-pointed attention" were developed. Then they taught the warriors both the fighting strategies and the spiritual discipline. The monks understand/understood what you are saying.
     
  13. spnadmin

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    On Ang 539 Guru Ram Das speaks of "one pointed attention." Complete absorption and surrender in the presence of the Satguru within.

    ਗੁਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ਮੇਰੀ ਜਿੰਦੁੜੀਏ ਬਿਖੁ ਭਉਜਲੁ ਤਾਰਣਹਾਰੋ ਰਾਮ ॥
    gur sathigur naam dhrirraaeiaa maeree jindhurreeeae bikh bhoujal thaaranehaaro raam ||
    The Guru, the True Guru, implanted the Name within me, O my soul, and He has carried me across the terrifying world-ocean of poison.

    ਜਿਨ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਮੇਰੀ ਜਿੰਦੁੜੀਏ ਤਿਨ ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਜੈਕਾਰੋ ਰਾਮ ॥
    jin eik man har dhhiaaeiaa maeree jindhurreeeae thin santh janaa jaikaaro raam ||
    Those who have meditated one-pointedly on the Lord, O my soul - I proclaim the Victory of those saintly beings.

    The saintly being is victorious who meditates with one mind, with undivided attention.
     
  14. spnadmin

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    Action in Inaction

    Guru Arjan Dev speaks of karam karath hovai nihakaram. This is a puzzle, a paradox, not unlike the concept of "action in inaction." Nihakaram is typically translated as the "reward of action." An alternate translation for karam karath hovai nihakaram is, "He who beholds inaction in action." In other words, we do what we must do (we perform our karam). And, by going beyond ego, without trying to expect any results of our action (nihakaram), we are able to go beyond our karma. This is about the paradox of making an effort while being in a state of ultimate surrender to the Akaal Purakh(u) who is the "doer of everthing." In Buddhism there is a parallel idea having to do with the effort (karam) and the acceptance of the reality that we can give up control and we can be still expecting nothing (nihakaram), which is needed to sustain spiritual practice.

    ਬੈਸਨੋ ਸੋ ਜਿਸੁ ਊਪਰਿ ਸੁਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ॥
    baisano so jis oopar suprasann ||
    The true Vaishnaav, the devotee of Vishnu, is the one with whom God is thoroughly pleased.


    ਬਿਸਨ ਕੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਭਿੰਨ ॥
    bisan kee maaeiaa thae hoe bhinn ||
    He dwells apart from Maya.


    ਕਰਮ ਕਰਤ ਹੋਵੈ ਨਿਹਕਰਮ ॥
    karam karath hovai nihakaram ||
    Performing good deeds, he does not seek rewards.
    (obviously I don't agree with the translation of this line)


    ਤਿਸੁ ਬੈਸਨੋ ਕਾ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਧਰਮ ॥
    this baisano kaa niramal dhharam ||
    Spotlessly pure is the religion of such a Vaishnaav;
     

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