☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Questions & Answers
What Would You Do If Your Child Did Not Believe In God
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="anon" data-source="post: 180697" data-attributes="member: 19291"><p>Hey everyone, thank you for your well thought out responses. You guys have given me a lot to think about but I don't really feel like much of it is getting through to me, it all sounds a bit "waffley", or perhaps it is my own spiritual ignorance, however most of you guys are giving me advice, when this was more of a hypothetical excersize... one in which all of you adults could tell me about what you would do if your child decided he didn't believe in god.</p><p></p><p>While I do feel like this philosophical nature of conversation was not what I intended I am actually interested in what a lot of you have to say about the relationship between Sikhism and atheism. Since i was a child "Ik Onkar" seemed pretty clear cut. If we assume the typical children's tales to be true then a Sikh would have to believe that the Gurus are fundamentally different from me and you, and that they have a deeper insight into what God was than either me or you through intellectual or supernatural means, a deeper insight into a god in itself would imply that a god exists... I can't quote Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji because quite frankly i havent read it (Cue the... "How can you reject Sikhism if you havent red Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji" comments), but I have read the english translations of certain sections and to me it strikes me as VERY clear that to be a Sikh is to be a A theist.</p><p></p><p>ANYWAY that was my very VERY off topic bit. I have been quite busy recently and I am sorry I can't reply to everyone. Harry Haller, thank you for your story, however from what you wrote I think its clear that perhaps your situation was one path of many that a "Non-Believer" may take. You have made me realise that the scenario I put forward has a different meaning to everyone and that my family is different to yours and that I may never find a person who can sympathise with my dilemma because everyone is different and no two situations are the same. </p><p></p><p>However i would like to address another post;</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well I don't really understand how I am emotionally blackmailing them. To my understanding "emotional blackmail" is when a person runs risk of carrying out an act, which they wish to carry out, which could deteriorate a relationship of a loved one and therefore feels inclined not to carry out that act... correct me if my interpretation of "Emotional blackmail" is incorrect. </p><p></p><p>In other words i run risk of carrying out an act (Cutting my hair, raising my potential future child a Sikh), which could lead to the deterioration of a relationship of a loved one (my mum or dad) and as a result I'm not committing those acts.</p><p></p><p>I don't see how in any way I am emotionally blackmailing them, I can't see how they are wanting to do something (Which relates to the scenario of me "Outing" myself) which would deteriorate my relationship with them... Emotional blackmail is never usually a two way street.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I totally agree with you on this. I am in the process of researching both sides. I am in the process of reading books on theology and i plan on reading Sikh history books (Any recommendations as to where to start and which ones use the most accurate sources?). It is definitely premature for me to "Out" myself now... I still have a lot of research to do, this forum thread itself is part of this research.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm sorry but i just cannot accept the "They don't want you to make mistakes they made" argument. I am different to my parents, if my parents made mistakes in their life then they made those mistakes 20-40 years ago in a different environment, in a different time, the choices I will be presented with in life are totally different, they may sound similar but environments change, people change, what's right and wrong in society changes. My parents mistakes are totally irrelevant. </p><p></p><p>Also if we assume that I am to avoid the mistakes my parents have made... then <strong><u><em>I </em></u></strong>wont make them... if <strong><em><u>I</u></em></strong> don't make them then when I present these same principles (the ones based on the mistakes my parents made) to MY OWN kids then it wont be the case that the enforcement of these principles is because "your parents don't want you to make mistakes they made", it will be "your GRANDPARENTS don't want you to make the mistakes they made". I don't like the idea of GRANDPARENTS being the parents (ie my parents being the parents of my kids). Also whose to say that it was the Grandparents who made the mistakes..? Perhaps it was the GREAT grand parents... who made these mistakes... </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Free will and free thinking are different... and in all honesty your right, there are no physical forces at work stopping me from cutting my hair off, </p><p></p><p>I think it is wrong for me to complain of not having free will, perhaps it is just the emotional blackmail that upsets me.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Read the above at the top... i'm confused by this.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Yep the guru's were amazing, i think they were amazing men, but just that amazing men. I think their ideas of equality are great, but I do disagree with certain articles of faith imposed upon us by them. </p><p></p><p>But if I were to derive my morals from bits and pieces of OTHER philosophers... I don't need the Gurus. Martin Luther King told me all men were equal, sure this was After Guru Nanak Dev Ji told me, but I think the message and the teaching should be examined independent of the person who says it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Thank you for your reply however I just don't feel like you can say that using your above justification it would be right for me to follow my parents and do as they say. I'm not entirely convinced by Sikhism but I do appreciate everyone's replys. I will continue to engage with your responses but I do also need to do some other stuff... (My dog wont walk himself!).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="anon, post: 180697, member: 19291"] Hey everyone, thank you for your well thought out responses. You guys have given me a lot to think about but I don't really feel like much of it is getting through to me, it all sounds a bit "waffley", or perhaps it is my own spiritual ignorance, however most of you guys are giving me advice, when this was more of a hypothetical excersize... one in which all of you adults could tell me about what you would do if your child decided he didn't believe in god. While I do feel like this philosophical nature of conversation was not what I intended I am actually interested in what a lot of you have to say about the relationship between Sikhism and atheism. Since i was a child "Ik Onkar" seemed pretty clear cut. If we assume the typical children's tales to be true then a Sikh would have to believe that the Gurus are fundamentally different from me and you, and that they have a deeper insight into what God was than either me or you through intellectual or supernatural means, a deeper insight into a god in itself would imply that a god exists... I can't quote Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji because quite frankly i havent read it (Cue the... "How can you reject Sikhism if you havent red Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji" comments), but I have read the english translations of certain sections and to me it strikes me as VERY clear that to be a Sikh is to be a A theist. ANYWAY that was my very VERY off topic bit. I have been quite busy recently and I am sorry I can't reply to everyone. Harry Haller, thank you for your story, however from what you wrote I think its clear that perhaps your situation was one path of many that a "Non-Believer" may take. You have made me realise that the scenario I put forward has a different meaning to everyone and that my family is different to yours and that I may never find a person who can sympathise with my dilemma because everyone is different and no two situations are the same. However i would like to address another post; Well I don't really understand how I am emotionally blackmailing them. To my understanding "emotional blackmail" is when a person runs risk of carrying out an act, which they wish to carry out, which could deteriorate a relationship of a loved one and therefore feels inclined not to carry out that act... correct me if my interpretation of "Emotional blackmail" is incorrect. In other words i run risk of carrying out an act (Cutting my hair, raising my potential future child a Sikh), which could lead to the deterioration of a relationship of a loved one (my mum or dad) and as a result I'm not committing those acts. I don't see how in any way I am emotionally blackmailing them, I can't see how they are wanting to do something (Which relates to the scenario of me "Outing" myself) which would deteriorate my relationship with them... Emotional blackmail is never usually a two way street. I totally agree with you on this. I am in the process of researching both sides. I am in the process of reading books on theology and i plan on reading Sikh history books (Any recommendations as to where to start and which ones use the most accurate sources?). It is definitely premature for me to "Out" myself now... I still have a lot of research to do, this forum thread itself is part of this research. I'm sorry but i just cannot accept the "They don't want you to make mistakes they made" argument. I am different to my parents, if my parents made mistakes in their life then they made those mistakes 20-40 years ago in a different environment, in a different time, the choices I will be presented with in life are totally different, they may sound similar but environments change, people change, what's right and wrong in society changes. My parents mistakes are totally irrelevant. Also if we assume that I am to avoid the mistakes my parents have made... then [B][U][I]I [/I][/U][/B]wont make them... if [B][I][U]I[/U][/I][/B] don't make them then when I present these same principles (the ones based on the mistakes my parents made) to MY OWN kids then it wont be the case that the enforcement of these principles is because "your parents don't want you to make mistakes they made", it will be "your GRANDPARENTS don't want you to make the mistakes they made". I don't like the idea of GRANDPARENTS being the parents (ie my parents being the parents of my kids). Also whose to say that it was the Grandparents who made the mistakes..? Perhaps it was the GREAT grand parents... who made these mistakes... Free will and free thinking are different... and in all honesty your right, there are no physical forces at work stopping me from cutting my hair off, I think it is wrong for me to complain of not having free will, perhaps it is just the emotional blackmail that upsets me. Read the above at the top... i'm confused by this. Yep the guru's were amazing, i think they were amazing men, but just that amazing men. I think their ideas of equality are great, but I do disagree with certain articles of faith imposed upon us by them. But if I were to derive my morals from bits and pieces of OTHER philosophers... I don't need the Gurus. Martin Luther King told me all men were equal, sure this was After Guru Nanak Dev Ji told me, but I think the message and the teaching should be examined independent of the person who says it. Thank you for your reply however I just don't feel like you can say that using your above justification it would be right for me to follow my parents and do as they say. I'm not entirely convinced by Sikhism but I do appreciate everyone's replys. I will continue to engage with your responses but I do also need to do some other stuff... (My dog wont walk himself!). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Questions & Answers
What Would You Do If Your Child Did Not Believe In God
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top