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What to do with my homosexuality ? is it god's way of telling me I should focus on spirituality only

Discussion in 'Sikh Youth' started by Seeker2013, Jun 8, 2015.

  1. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    Lots of things are queer about me , but I am queer literally , ever since I could remember.

    Even as a small boy, I was different from other boys from other boys from a very young age. I would prefer playing softer games with girls rather than go in the playground and play cricket or football. Boyish sports made me uncomfortable. They seemed tough and I was never interested in the first place. To this day , I don't watch cricket or football matches. They seem boring, while the world around me goes crazy with each IPL season.

    I don't know why waheguru made me this way. What was the reason .
    Why make a person of male gender , but make a part of their inner being feminine . By feminine, I mean feeling physical / romantic / sexual attraction only to men and not to women.

    It wouldn't be such an issue if we lived in an ideal world. But unfortunately world is not ideal, atleast not where I live - India.
    It was a painful realization that most men don't feel like the way I do and therefore cannot empathize with what I go through. And since most men are not like me , I would have a terribly small pool of people to choose a potential partner from .
    And since I find myself belong (unfortunately) to one of the most disenfranchised community, self-loathing is common among us . And when you don't love yourself fully, how can you love other , how can you love your partner who is also gay ?
    I don't know if you reading this can exactly understand my thoughts here, but I hope you're atleast getting some idea of what I have said so far....

    But the thing is , I feel there's no future with my orientation and my country - india. Like what kind of future awaits me . All I see is dimness . If I remain single for life, its still a lonely and miserable feeling. If I marry a woman, how can I be happy ? How terrible that we only give people the option of only marrying someone they don't and CAN'T LOVE !

    It is emotionally painful to see couples everywhere around you and realize that this is something that waheguru didn't write in your fate !
    It is emotionally painful to watch a daily soap or movie revolving around romantic love only to be painfully made realized what you lack in life.
    It is emotionally painful when elders jokingly say "munda jawaan ho gaya, ehda byaah kar do hunn (the young man has grown old enough, lets marrying him now)"

    I don't know what should someone in my shoes do !
    the best I know of doing right now is going to gurudwara and do ardas to the only guru I know - shri guru granth sahib to bless me and show me the way .

    Did god make me gay so that I can focus on bhagti and achieve mukti ?
     
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  3. Original

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    My dear son

    You're not on your own, there is diversity amongst God's creation, even in the animal world there is evidence of the "gay" gene. Orientation such as yours is quite common now days, so don't despair but rather be proud to have opened up - problem shared is problem halved, if you consider it a problem, I don't? As a lawyer then, I was in favour of legislating same sex marriages. Same sex marriages are lawful around the world bar some, but to deny yourself the right to a natural life albeit with a man is far worse than to have lived a life of another in disguise full of praise.

    God chose you for a reason, pointing at the Sun, thus spoke Zarathustra, "you great star ! What would your happiness be if you had not those for whom you shine !". And, the same goes for you my son - stand amongst your kind and be representative of a new age and new era. Release from bondage held captive those who perished in silence.

    God will love you as much you will love Him. Let not social or family ties rob you of your right to a natural life.

    God bless you !

    Goodnight
     
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  4. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    I wish it was so easy . But I think the things worth in life are not easy !
    I feel like there is no hope in this country (India) that still carries on a victorian legacy which britishers themselves scrapped off 50 yrs back - the criminalization of so called "unnatural relationship" .
    Now you and me know thats BS . but I can't fight the whole world. Indian society is still medieval to a large extent !
    Seriously don't know what should I do . Don't feel like I have much options bar migrating to a first world country where I can breathe with relief ? >_<

    Heterosexuals are like just another mughals. Like how mughals forced their islam on everyone by torture, same way the so called "straight" majoritarian, totalitarian, tyrannical society forces heterosexuality on everyone. I so hate it
     
  5. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    I am not denying it to myself. I would like to marry (somebody of same sex) , date (someone of same sex) and spend my life with him. Its the world and society around that won't let me do it , atleast not without a lot of obstacles :(

    I so hate humans sometimes that I won't even feel sad if your whole species went extinct. Can I have an asteroid please ? :mad:
     
  6. Original

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    Those who believe in God accept God's will and hate no one nor discriminate against anyone. Where there is the "will" there is the "way" - create therefore a world within a world and give meaning to your life.
     
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  7. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    seeker2013,

    The kind of questions you ask are filled with fear of the unknown, the future, of people, of your life...being lonely etc..
    i used to be immersed in these kind of thoughts also..

    the thing that has made the biggest inpact on my life has been my spirituality, my Simran..remembrance of Waheguru.
    once that remembrance becomes fruitful, you'll never feel alone every again because you'll know there is something so loving within your very being..waheguru, that there is nothing to fear even if the whole world turns it's back on you.

    When this kind of feeling manifests within you, you will feel free...and never ever alone. Your true friend...your true guide is there with you always.

    this is not philosophy, this is absolute truth that can be felt, seen and heard...believe in it...it's there 100%
     
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  8. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    Yes, I have sworn to do sukhmani sahib for 40 days ! actually , god himself makes me wake up , because I usually wake up a few minutes before my alarm goes off ! so its god's bhana .
    I usually ask for materialistic things when praying to god, but I also pray he always be there for me and bless me with his bhagti and worship .
    Having said that , as much as I feel your answer is nice , but I still don't feel it addresses the issues of this thread, or does it ? maybe I can only tell when I am at that stage after doing lots of simran :D
     
  9. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    oh they definitely will answer those questions :)

    let me use a materialistic analogy...

    one day you are driving a ford fiesta...and you love the car...your life is the car...you worry about it, you care for it, you get anxious when other drivers are near it....then one day you see a girl or a boy...you fall in love...and then all of a sudden you stop worrying about your car so much...it doesn't mean so much to you..if it gets damaged so be it, you get it fixed and move on...but now your mind is fixed on your love for this girl or boy.

    in the same way...once you really really start to experience waheguru...your mind will be fixed and amazed at just what has occurred...you will want more...you will want to unravel more this secret...and then just like dust blowing into the air and dissapearing....your worries, anxieties and questions about other things will just blow into the air like dust...they won't worry you so much...and you'll have 'infinite' other things to occupy your mind....by inifnte other things i mean waheguru....its endless :)

    so my only advice to you is..if you are getting up for amrit vela...if you are already feeling this pull from Waheguru...keep doing it....keep doing it :)

    at the same time keep living your life...and just start to notice how your thinking will day by day / month by month change.

    stop worrying about the future...just think what positive thing you can do today....then tomorow do the same...

    enjoy the journey.....eventually you will stop asking waheguru for materialistic things and you will just ask "please show me the truth waheguru....and please show me how to serve you"

    :)

    Also once you know for sure that waheguru is there within you, and with you at all times....you will not care so much about what opinions others have of you...or if you will ever get married or how society see's a person like yourself...whenever the world seems to be turning against you, you will be able to close your eyes for a moment and feel his presence within you, see his presence within you and hear his presence within you...you will never ever feel alone ever
     
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    #8 chazSingh, Jun 11, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2015
  10. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    Whenever I feel lonely or feel a rough patch in my life, I turn to Guru Granth sahib ji for guidance. I don't think of it as a "sacred text" . I think of it as a miraculous light of god , the same light that passed from Guru Nanak through Guru Gobind Singh. So when I go to gurudwara sahib, I try to have the faith that I am actually going to bow down to Sri Guru Nanak Dev, Guru Ramdas, Guru Arjan, Guru Gobind Singh ji and not just Guru Granth sahib .

    I usually do ardas and ask a hukam from Guru ji . For me personally, hukam also means "hey guru ji, talk to me now" , Then I lift rumala sahib and whatever shabad continued into the left ang , I turn over previous ang and read it. THAT FOR ME is Guru talking to me. Now some people might think I am playing silly games with guru here. No I am not. Its just my shardaa.

    And let me tell you I have often felt Sri Guru Granth Sahib actually talk to me back. For instance, one day I said "Guru ji , when will I get selected for my job. I have done so and so seva . My parents have hope. Please help"

    I got the following gur-vaak
    "Aape sewa laayein, Aape Baksh karey . Sabna ka ma peo aap hai, har aape saar kare"
    (He himself has caused you to do seva and he himself will bless you. He's everyone's parents and nurtures all" )
    And this is just one incidence of guru ji "responding" to my ardas.

    NOW , coming back to planet earth :D
    I am still gay.. I still will feel the heat one day perhaps which perhaps heterosexuals will never have to face in life simply because they're not an invisible disenfranchised minority. I will still feel lonely, alone, not-understood , not-empathized-with , perhaps a still lone 40 yr old man who's living with one of his parent and other is dead. It freaks me out what future holds for me. If I marry, I ain't happy, If I don't marry, I ain't happy.

    Thing's complicated. But still I have my Guru Granth Sahib. Perhaps its all part of god's plan for me . :)
     
  11. chazSingh

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    there is a line in gurbani that says.....my anxieties have been forgotten and the one lord is seen

    What does this mean?

    Does it mean, that God grants you all your wishes....you meet a handsome fella, you get married, society takes you in for who you are....no judging...and you live happily ever after?

    to me it means...once you see God...once you have first hand experience of Him inside you...and all around you, then you will never worry ever again...your loneliness will depart even if you are stranded on a desert with no one...you will still feel him and commune with Him there...no worries no anything...

    that is where we must all go...what we must expand our awareness to. fearlessness...which is really our true identity...satnaam

    no more questions and worries...

    it may seem like that stage will never come...but i believe it is possible...i know it is possible...for everyone..

    And then who cares what the world thinks...who cares about all these things...and who worries about the future...you have just opened up the universe within you....unlimited discoveries to seek, truths to be uncovered...and people to inspire because you'll want them to taste this also :)
     
  12. Original

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    Kindly provide cite ref - as a matter of interest !

    Thank you
     
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  13. Seeker2013

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    Doesn't make much sense to me . Sorry ! maybe some day I might understand .
    right now i wud just focus on naam simran and my sukhmani sahib
     
  14. Original

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    In my humble view, this thread is more of a cultural "agenda" than a religious remedial discussion and as such requires appropriate categorisation. From a cultural perspective certain barriers can be best addressed and dealt with to give intellectual independence in order to pave way for Seeker 2013. And, since Punjabi culture is extremely conservative, Seeker 2013 must be advised accordingly.

    Religion a solace ? Yes, but not the ideal nor the remedy. An ideal Sikh would honour "optimistically" both the "Granth" and the "Panth" [society] in chardi kala.

    It is not recommended that the seeker should import verses from SGGSJ to support what otherwise is a natural condition [gay]. Instead, he should rise to the challenge and accept Akal Purakh's endowment and work to better his condition through meaningful and fruitful relationships with fellow humans, preferably gay men. Then, let God stand testamont to his trial and tribulations in braking social and cultural barriers in pursuit of happiness.


    As said above, Seeker 2013 in my view should seek to address "homosexuality" from a cultural perspective rather than a religious remedy albeit by default and bring about social equality. On that note, I'm reminded by my Lord of the verse found on page 469 of SGGSJ [dukh daru - dukh a remedy] and [sukh rog - comfort a pain]. Depends how one sees it. One may well take this condition to be unnatural whereby religious solace then becomes meaningful, but otherwise, if taken as natural then one should endeavour to seek and live happily albeit within social and cultural constraints.

    Indian legal system need to decriminalise same sex marriages and promote social equality. The impact of globalisation ought to permeate the social fabric of all societies in the promotion of "equality". What we don't want Seeker 2013 to do is to complain to God [after death] for shaping him gay when equally there is now accommodation for him to find his society and lead a "normal" life.

    Seeker 2013 should be advised to import positive vibes and discard "solitary confinement" attitude for the better of humanity.
     
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  15. Seeker2013

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    For me personally, I don't find my same-sex attraction an unnatural thing just the way fish don't find living in water unnatural -- because the fish doesn't know or have experienced living on land. For the fish, its born, grows and dies in water. Same way , I have only felt attracted to same gender ever since. Some women are beautiful but I don't feel that way for them like how other men do . And I have experienced nothing else ( heterosexuality) , so I can't say what it even feels like !

    I don't know what it feels to be attracted to women or fall in love with them, just like how a fish doesn't know what it feels like to live on land.

    Ok, coming back to point, making your own tiny bubble of breathable space in a conservative space like india is , needless to say, tough . Most gay men in india accept their fate of second-class men and modern shudras, and either
    1) remain single for life
    or
    2) marry women.

    Both are dreadful lives. In one you remain single with little hope of finding a love mate, the second one is dreadful to share bed with a human you can't feel love affection with. It is needless to say women also suffer in such marriages , but then who cares for women, right ? we as indian culture is more than happy to suppress female sexuality and also sometimes when that female sexuality expresses itself in males ( as in gay men) .

    Living double-lives then become a common thing . It is indeed unfortunate .

    Solution is .... what ? other than migrating to a place like canada ?!!
    I won't say its totally dark here ! saying that would be injustice to all the hard work thats being done here in this country too.

    It really makes my head explode sometimes thinking about my future . It gives me headaches.

    At those moments I feel if I should just give up everything and become a religious person . "Grehast life" as taught by Nanak is not possible for me without me making it feel like I am trapped.

    Sometimes when I look at life, it just feels like a maze of little joys and double the sorrows and then I wonder if reincarnation is true. and then think "Why not try to end this mess ( of human life itself) in this life so that I won't have to come back to this planet again?" But then agnostic me kicks in and says "Well how do you know this isn't the only one you have?! Rather than going out , partying and having casual encounters with other sexy guys, you're wasting it here being a baabey.

    Oh well ! I can literally see my mind now being a tug-of-war between this two polar opposites : the believer and the skeptic, the respecter and the insult-er, the gentle and the rude. I can literally feel it now. But its good that I feel it now. So I can address it hopefully .
     
  16. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    What to do with my homosexuality ? is it god's way of telling me I should focus on spirituality only?

    You should focus on spirituality, regardless.
    Once you do this, you can begin to ascend and rise above all dualities like good/bad....sukh/dukh.....pain/pleasure.
    At the same time, you can also realise that being male/female...homo/hetero...never really mattered anyway because there is No gender or sexual orientation to a soul/atma.
    Your atma is the jyot that matters and not your body,desires or needs in maya.

    Sikhi can help take you to that level of ''Gurmukh''.
    At this stage you don't see black/white...gay/straight or anything..but you just see "tuhin tuhin" and ONE in all.

    A gurmukh doesn't let emotions overpower him and let him worry about future or this and that....because a gurmukh rises way above this level and holds the highest regards in Hukam and continues to walk in hukam.
     
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  17. Original

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    With respect to your theological view, I would've loved to have endorsed such encouraging and perhaps applicable advice had the recipient been of reasonable age and discretion. But as things stand and he is a 21 year old male [?] I'm obliged to question my own conscience whether such a sacrifice [denying a natural right] deem necessary and if so to what end ? Am I to believe a sacrifice of a "right" be made for the want of social conformance ? No, that is contrary to Sikh belief and value. I must confess I cannot see as plainly as others do, for this here is a question of cultural acceptance and not of religious approval nor a religious remedy.

    Given that it has found its way into the Sikh domain, I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent and omnipotent Akal Purakh would have deliberately designed the young seeker only to inflict misery and dread? Or to socially engineer him to His Kingdom ? No ! Equally, I cannot anyhow be contented to view this wonderful universe resulting from accident, but much more. I'm inclined to look at everything as resulting from designed laws [hakum].

    The young seeker is gay full stop, we as a society ought to accommodate. That is the true path of a Sikh.
     
  18. chazSingh

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    Lucky ji has explained something really beautiful in his message...

    Lucky is not saying we shouldn't accommodate Gays or any other sexual orientation...rather he is giving the advice as per SGGS Ji on how to transcend his worries, anxieties, questions, concerns about his sexual orientation and any other part of his life..

    Gurbani's answer is the same for every part of our life...we can transcend all the intricacies of our mind and see the world and ourselves for what it really is (the Truth) and for what we really are (the Truth)...that is the solution to everything that we can think of.

    Someone who is one the path to Waheguru cannot see any other solution for anything other than waheguru...therefore when we reply to such a topic...it will always be from a spiritual perspective...it may not be what the person wants to hear...but unfortunately its the only answer some can provide

    A lovely verse from Gurbani ... 'The Word of the Guru's Shabad quiets worries and troubles'
     
  19. Original

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    My dear Chaz

    As always - RESPECT !

    Should we the residents of SPN take this to be an "unfortunate" state of affairs ? But why, when there is mountain load of evidence to confirm this to be a natural cause, that is to say, Waheguru "willed" it so. Should the young man be tipped to renounce natural life on account of a living God, who by implication is socially engineering him to come to His World ?

    More another time - have to pick my wife !

    Goodnight n Godbless
     
  20. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    We're supposed to live like nuns , try to forget our pain of being a freak of nature by meditating on name of god. . Being sarcastic obviously

    PS: how weird and how unlucky to be god if people only remember you (god) during times of misery :p
     
  21. Original

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    Not quite ! House of Nanak promotes, advocates and above all believes in "chardi kala" [ascending spirit] and not "lehndi kala" [descending spirit]. Moreover, this here physical world is His "lilla" [playground], play out therefore your "karm" [role] in chardi kala and then sing praises to "Waheguru".

    If someone takes your fancy in falling in "love", fall in love and enjoy the true experience of being a human before embarking upon "thanks-giving" to Waheguru for His bestowment. Experience the "sargun" [subjective] to know the "nirgun" [objective].Turn it around [do not suppress natural inclination] and accept it as Waheguru's will and then do your "nam simran" and be forever in bliss land.

    To what avail is spiritual science if physical science is not known ? And, that too on account of suppressing the one for the emergence of the other. Nay, not Sikhism at all !

    As I've explained in my previous communication, this is an item of social and not religious genre. Between you [seeker] and God there is no qualms, Waheguru accepts you coz he shaped you thus, it's the society that you need to be kicking n cussing. However, the saintly advice dispensed by my learned friends is in fact a detour for your well being towards which all humans must one day strive. And, it's only recommended not compulsory. But the crux of the matter rests with you to find, enjoy and live a natural, disciplined life as if you were a hetrosexual. This kind of endowment befalls the few to set the scene for others in likewise predicaments to live happily.

    Good day ! God bless you -
     

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