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What is Worship? What is Not?

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by seeker3k, Sep 29, 2011.

  1. seeker3k

    seeker3k
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    I am firm believer in Guru Nanak’s ideology. What I get from his writing is very simple message. One does not need to worship IDOLS to get to God. Live simple life and do no harm to any one.
    Every one different idea as to what is idol. There is no need to do arti to God. Arti mean prayer.
    My question here today is:

    What is worship?
    What is idol worship?
    What is not worship?
    What is not idol worship?
     

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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    I will start.

    worship |ˈwər sh əp|
    noun
    the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity : the worship of God | ancestor worship.
    • the acts or rites that make up a formal expression of reverence for a deity; a religious ceremony or ceremonies : the church was opened for public worship.
    • adoration or devotion comparable to religious homage, shown toward a person or principle : Krushchev threw the worship of Stalin overboard.
    • archaic honor given to someone in recognition of their merit.
    • [as title ] ( His/Your Worship) chiefly Brit. used in addressing or referring to an important or high-ranking person, esp. a magistrate or mayor : we were soon joined by His Worship the Mayor.


    verb ( -shiped |ˈwərʃəpt|, -shiping |ˈwərʃəpɪŋ|; also -shipped, -shipping) [ trans. ]
    show reverence and adoration for (a deity); honor with religious rites : the Maya built jungle pyramids to worship their gods.
    • treat (someone or something) with the reverence and adoration appropriate to a deity : she adores her sons and they worship her.
    • [ intrans. ] take part in a religious ceremony : he went to the cathedral because he chose to worship in a spiritually inspiring building.

    The idea of a deity or idol figures strongly in these definitions. Here and there a human is being "worshipped" as per rank, merit, or motherhood.
     
  4. Harry Haller

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    (tricky one, is worshiping a tree because it is part of creation, idol worship?, is bowing down before the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji idol worship, no, I think the former is to recognize the Creator in everything, and the latter is respect and love. Does idol worship actually exist? Some people worship pictures of the Gurus, this is wrong in itself because the Gurus specifically asked not to be worshiped, so it is not the idol element that is incorrect, simply, I think appreciating anything and everything with Creator in mind is not idol worship)
     
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  5. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Seeker Ji Nice question may I postulate that doing No Harm might be worship,what is not worship might be worship,Idol worship might be not idol worship.
     
  6. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Sinnerji

    I disagree, a man on a desert island could do no harm, yet not appreciate the wonders of nature and creativity all around him, and thus not be worshiping, . Whereas a man who became as one with the Island would in my mind be worshiping, what are your thoughts?
     
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  7. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Veer Ji disagreeing might be worship.Is it us who decide what is worship or the one being worshipped?:singhbhangra:
     
  8. Harry Haller

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    Brotherji,

    Duality is all very well, but just adopting an opposite point of view for the sake of it, is not in my humble view, worship, although I suppose it can be enlightening

    You have been spending too much time with Bhagat Singhji lol your are getting almost as obscure as he is!
     
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  9. spnadmin

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    I respectfully request that red be used only by admin. It is becoming increasingly difficult to read posts with red in the quotes bracket and red in the main text of an answer as it is. And if moderation is needed it will be more difficult.

    Given time, I will go back and edit member comments on top of comments in red font.

    Thanks
     
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  10. Harry Haller

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    whislingmunda

    not sure what you mean adminji
     
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  11. Ambarsaria

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    seeker3k ji some ccomments,
    Sat Sri Akal.

    PS:

    My two brothers Sinner and Harry Haller ji seem to be doing the following. Seeker3k ji I would have included you if it was 3 people video lol


    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  12. Kanwaljit Singh

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    I found an analogy between God and idol. We know what a circle is. It is a round figure where each point is equidistant from a fixed centre. But when we try to draw a circle, we can't draw a perfect one. Some of its points will be more or less than the radial distance. So we understand what a circle is. But even if we use biggest computer and draw a circle down to a million points, we don't get a perfect circle. Same is with an idol.
     
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  13. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Veer Ji I didn't get paid though I was doing it in my spare time which is something like worship :singhbhangra:
     
  14. Seeker9

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    All I would have to add is this:

    Idolatry I think is straightforward enough...i.e imbuing a physical object with such significance that you worship the object and may even attribute supernatural powers to the object

    Worship then can lead people to idolatry.

    Personally I would prefer to make a distinction between worship and appreciation. You can appreciate the wonder of the Creation without indulging in "worship"

    To me, recital of prayers should be more about making a spiritual connection and not worship

    I hope that makes some sort of sense...
     
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  15. seeker3k

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    It is not my intension to insult any one here. I only say as I see it.
    An idol is thing that is made from non living matter. Like Hindus make stone or clay or metal. There idols are not living thing As intelligent people knows that there were no shiva,brahma,vishnu. Yet people are worshiping those idols. Any thing that is not living is idol.
    Is granth living? For millions it is. But book can not talk book can not speak. Book can not move from one place to other. If people want to believe that book is living guru then that is there thing. But it is blind faith started by unknown being. We Sikhs just wanted to do what the Hindus were and are doing. Every day there is new thing being added in the ritual of worship. People tell me that their things are getting done by ardas so why you complaing? Have we lost sense that by getting bhai ji to do the ardas our problems will be solved? We created our own problem why bring god into it.

    None of the Guru said any where that he is guru. It is only people called them guru. Why?
    Example: There was a doctor who could cure any ailment. He died if we go to his grave and pray and show respect to that grave will he cure us? In the same way why are we prey to gurus who has been dead for long time? Some one wrote that he respect his mom/dad by touching their feet. Is it not true that insult mom/dad if we don’t do what mom/dad tells us to do and we don’t do that? The real respect is to do what the guru told us to do. Touching the feet of mom/dad is Hindu custom not Sikhs. I have not seen Sikhs touching their mom/dad feet. Those who are doing is because they have seen Hindus doing it.
    Every religion claim that their holy book is written or spoke by god. Yet no one of those religions try to feed food or put glass of water by the bed at night. No one put their holy books in AC room and put blanket on it. Only the Hindu and Sikhs are doing it.

    The bani in granth are written in gurmukhi. What if one can’t not read gurmukhi and he cant not hear he is def. Is that person is doomed?
    God gave us logic for some reason. It is to use and make life better. Jut for one minute thing as a neutral person. Are we not doing the things what guru tsaid in granth not to do.
    We are doing all those things what the Hindus are doing. But we call them but different name
    Religion is teaching hatred not respect.

    I am all for respect but don’t force it on others and see if it makes sense.

    There is only one rule of humanity; DO NO HARM TO ANY LIFE
     
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  16. findingmyway

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    Guru Granth Sahib ji is not the same as a stone idol as it contains the knowledge, the teachings, the key to be a Sikh. The Guru Granth Sahib ji cannot talk but it can be read. SIdols give us no knowledge!! AC rooms are more those doing the reading as it is hard to focus and take on what you are being taught when you are too hot! The cloth protects the pages so they last longer. Anyone who is a fan of books will know how easily books can get ruined! Sometimes its worth looking beyond appearances, at the deeper sentiments, before judging actions.
     
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  17. Harry Haller

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    I am all for less tradition and ritual, and more substance, And I agree with some, but not all of Seeker3k's post.

    Ok, so 90% of sikhs have got it wrong, as Gyaniji pointed out in another post, most are Hindu in action, so what do we do?

    Nothing, concentrate on our own relationship with creation and Waheguru, and get it right for ourselves in whatever way we feel comfortable, ours is not to judge, or to impose our views on others, if you are having a moan at how Hinduism has crept into Sikhism, then I am with you all the way, If you want to protest and do something about it, your on your own then brother

    I would point out that the tenth master made it quite clear that the SGGS should be treated as a living Guru, and thanks to a court case,(rightly or wrongly) it is legally so, but it is up to the individual to do what he or she feels comfortable given this diktat from Guru Gobind Singh ji.

    Also when people tend to worship idols, they are thinking of the power beyond the idol, not the idol itself, some people are clever enough to use their imagination, it is not fair to pronounce judgement on those that need a physical idol if it helps them visualize their god, we are all different, do not harm any life, do not pronounce judgement on those who do not harm any life either, no?
     
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  18. Ambarsaria

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    seeker3k ji some comments and none is made to insult you but written in a direct style like your own,
    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  19. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Seeker Veera everyone knows Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not a book,we all know it is a boat!Now if you want to ask a question ask something like' Is the Guru still the Guru if there is no Sikh?Because one is known from the other. That might lead you to realise that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji can be put on CD, on Web, in Book,but it is not ink,paper or code ,that is the medium only.Guru is known as Guru because there is a Sikh ,the Self, it is a divine truth,It is not as it seems.If God forbid no trees were left to make books Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji will still exist but in it's matterless form.

    Ambarasaria Ji
    Guru Nanak said "Jaisai mai ayee khasam ki bani and we say Akaash bani.I took that to mean from God,I could be wrong as usual ! By the way Master Musketeer Self editing is Sikhi
     
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  20. Tejwant Singh

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    Seeker3k ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Here is my 2 cent worth.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  21. Searching

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    Rather than worrying about what is worship and what is not a Sikh should only worry about Naam Japna and contemplate on the Shabad Guru.
    What difference would it make if we know what is "not worship" if we are still unaware of what is "worship"
    Or what difference would it make if we were to know what is "worship" but do not know what is not?
    Only significant thing here is to "do worship" even if what is "not worship" is not known.
    SGGS ji guides us to "Naam Japna". I believe that shall be the Sikh way of worship.
     
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