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What is happening to Sikhi???

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by BlazinSikh, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. BlazinSikh

    BlazinSikh
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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh,

    What is happening to Sikhi???

    This question may cause controversy, so i will try to explain carefully on what i am trying to say here. Well last night i was trying to get to sleep, an early sleep for fact, as i have been trying to do my nitnem, however last night i was unable to do so. Reason being is well my mind was some focused on the state of sikhi in to todays modern time, and well it just really shocked my to see so much falseness in today sikhi.

    For example Sikhism to me is probably one of the most bueatifulest lifestyle in this world today, however do to mankind this loving, GOD serving lifestyle is being corrupted by egomaniac "sikhs" (i use the term sikhs loosley for these types of people). This breaks down to many things such as there different sectors of sikhs, i mean What The Fudge is this? Why is it that we have sectors in sikhism? Why can't we all be one big family? Why must we seperate ourselves? When i look at lifestyles like Christainity and Islam all i see is brotherhood between them, from different colour, ethnics, background and so on, and yes i do know that they also have sects within there "religions", but they are still unified.

    But in sikhi, you have the 3HO'ers that follow in the beliefs in Yogi Bhajans, as well as the teachings of sikhism and becoming Gursikhs
    , when you look at 3HO Gurdwar, most of them are Non-Indians (Nothing agianst Non-indians), who have idol statues and focus more on kundaylini yoga then sikhi itself. Then you have the Namdharis, that also do follow the sikh teaching, but they believe Jagjit Singh as the living guru[SIZE=2]. [SIZE=2]And then you have Sanat[SIZE=2]an Singh S[SIZE=2]ahba, who are more in to hindu[SIZE=2]ism [SIZE=2]rather than sikhism[SIZE=2], then the Udasi, who claim[SIZE=2] ag[SIZE=2]ain being sikhs, but foll[SIZE=2]owing the steps of Guru Na[SIZE=2]nak[SIZE=2] Dev [SIZE=2]Ji Son, Sri Chan[SIZE=2]d[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE], they do not even follow, and etc etc. I am just saying why can't there just be a group of people who follow sikhism rather than these egomaniac sikhs making up there own groups of "sikhs" with there own teaching.

    Another issue in sikhism is that sikhism is not being taught to the youth of today, i obviously blame the parents, as they believe they do no have to teach sikhi, to there kids, they leave the teaching to the Gyiani, just because he is meant to be the teachers. Parents do not even teach the basics of sikhi to there kids or sikh value, i can agree to this as i am speaking from experience. Sikhs would much rather listen to some so called "sant", or to some "baba", and become sheeps by following the fasle hood they preach in sikhi, rather than going to a fellow gursikh, Gyiani and asking question to help there knowledge in sikhi. I also believe that there is a lot of ignorance in alot sikh elders mostly and majoritally from the punjabi/indian sikh community, i mean if you ask them a question in sikhi for example "why is sex before marriage not accepted?" they will probably shout and accuse you for your question, without explaining it as the Guru's did.

    Another example of ignorance in the sikh community is that well i was on the internet searching about amritdhari couples and how they cope in todays society (reason being is because i would love to become an amritdhari), and i stumbled apon the SikhSangat site where a Amritdhari sister was in a dilemma, as she fancy a fellow Amritdhari brother, however could not even speak on marriage because there uneducated parent are more intrested in caste (which sikhi is against) then the boy religiously. And the funny thing was the reply that sister had recieved was ludacris instead of helping her with her dilema they merley mocked her, and insulted, saying she is a fake amritdhari sikh who is falling in to lust (not in that terms but something similar), when all she said is she liked the guy. I mean what the hell man? what wrong has sister commited that the sangat of SikhSangat had to insult her for, no explaination ,no loving help, just insults of ignorance. I've also seen many other forms of ignorance shown by SikhSangat community. But the fact is have these sikhs forgotten what seva means, is all seva is just giving langar at Gurdwara, i mean in my Gurdwara i do not even see homeless people coming to eat from Gurdwara all i ever see is money filled sikhs just walking in eating, sitting for an hour and then just running off like they have filled there soul with GOD'S hukam.

    I mean there is so many other issues in today's sikhi that i will not mention as from reading this unclear topic you guy probably get the picture. I am sorry if this topic shocks you in a negative way, or if all i spoke was utter nonsense. But the fact is this is what i am seeing please forgive me for any mistake, or "rubbish" i may have spoken, i do not know if this is me speaking or if it is the teenage hormone talking so please forgive me. :unsure:

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh
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  3. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    The basic reason for this fuss is the total lack of acceptance of SGGS as GuROO
    There is still a person more important than the teachings of SGGS and that is why
    there are more and more new grous coming in limelight for such activities which have no
    connection with Sikh principles.
    There are 1008 Names of the CREATOR as per Hindu Shastras and a day is not far when there would be 1008 shops for such activities keeping SGGS aside.

    The need of the time is to see how people can be made more aware about SGGS
    as GuROO.I find more emphasis on outer part of Sikhi more dominant than the inner essence of Sikhi as per Gurbanee.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  4. BlazinSikh

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    Mr Prakash.S.Bagga Ji, I totally agree with you there, but as this is the problem, what could the solution for this? I mean in Sikhi i believe we need a true sikhi/sikhi's to speak out against these so called sikh sect, to end this stupidness. Hopefully if we can end many fallacy in sikhism, it could also probably inspire other human beings to do the same for the lifestyle they follow.

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
     
  5. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    The solution comes from within the problems.There is need for cosolidation of
    fundmental aspects of Sikhi as per SGGS .One can notice how Gurbanee is/has been interprated making use of words which are not the contents of Gurbanee vocabulary at all.
    I feel unless there is unified approach in understanding and be true to the messages of
    Gurbanee nothing is going to change.
    There is need for all to understand what our present GuRu is telling to do.
    Outer part should be a matter of choice rather than compulsion.How this
    can be done should be given a thinking.
    So long as as one is liable to an organisation controlling the society at different levels
    in the name of Sikh Parliament what one should expect .?
    Thus it is important to have a controlling body with capability to understand and implment the changes to the need of future generations.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  6. Harvir007

    Harvir007
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    For starters, I think it's unwise to say that all religions are unified. It is perfectly clear that there is a civil war going on in Islam and there is also still fighting between Protestants and Catholics in Ireland, small but nonetheless a lack of unity. In answer to your question, I think that all people are going to have different opinions and that it applies to all even if their religious backgrounds are the same. Some Sikhs believe you can only be a Sikh if you have kesh, some believe that all you need is to live a clean lifestyle in order to be a Sikh. It varies I guess.

    I disagree with your assertion that parents don't teach the faith. It's unwise to suggest that they don't teach the basics, because they mostly do. Just because you weren't taught Sikhi, does not mean other parents didn't teach their children about their religion. So bear that in mind please.

    In regards to your claim about pre-marital sex, I don't recall the Guru's saying anything for or against pre-marital sex. The only place in Sikhi that I see this notion is in the Rehat Maryada, which I would not even contemplate placing my faith in.

    Sikhism could be a lot more worse off. It could have dispersed into a sect of Hinduism if it weren't for all the educators that corrected many misconceptions regarding this religion. Instead, it did not disperse. It's a thriving religion with a clear manifesto; to promote peace and equality. The issues you point out are either small or irrelevant and there are far more concerning things to ponder within the faith such as militant 'freedom' fighters.
     
    #5 Harvir007, Nov 9, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  7. chazSingh

    chazSingh United Kingdom
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    there is a simple solution to all of this....Become the embodyment of SGGS Ji, realise the truth in it, live it, become it, then lead by example.

    only way in life is to lead by example. So better yourself, realise the truth in SGGS Ji, then do seva of helping others.

    you cannot uplift others, if you cannot uplift yourself

    Just my thoughts :)
     
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  8. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh United States
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    Yes you need to uplift yourself by focusing on the good and not the bad or negatives that you come across or hear about.
    I know there are so many sects etc... that you mention that we blame for dividing.

    But let me tell you about a certain person I have known who was a complete atheist as well as a drunk and womaniser. This guy spent years like this and was never happy and he just wouldn't believe in Guru until he met someone who introduced him to some baba. This baba helped restore some faith into him and made him realise that there is a god and made him realise that he would never find happiness in the lifestyle he had.
    Cut a long story short, this guy thought to himself '' well that makes a little sense, I might give this a go''. So he became a devout sikh with the radhasoamis !!
    He is amritdharie and he has faith in the radhasoami because they saved him.

    At the end of the day, I see it as a good deed done by the radhasoami baba because he heled save this man when there was no one else. Other fellow sikhs didn't go that far to help him but this baba did.
    Whatever the babas intentions are for growing his groups or for making money, I don't really care, because he was there and he has made a true sikh out of a complete terrorof a man.

    You see we have to see the good to appreciate the dear ones that have been helped. This man had no belief in God let alone religion. He is now a believer of both.

    In the same way we have the 3HO started by Yogi Bhajan.
    Remember that this yogi single handedly made over 100,000 white sikhs from hippy groups.
    If he believes in udassi or sri chand and has that statue outside his New mexico gurudwara then what is really wrong with that ?
    The statue is outside it is not by the Sri GuruGranth Sahib ji.
    We have not ever seen a picture or video of anyone worshipping that statue or waving some diva around it !!
    I mean er is NOT a single person today that can make 100,00 monai or sehajdharies into amritdharie sikhs by any means whatsoever.
    You have to applaud the yogi who made over a lakh full amritdharie sikhs from scratch.
    If yoga was used to attract them, then so what ?
    They don't disrespect the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji or worship their yoga mantras more than that.

    We should look at the postives created an not the negatives.
    It's no good sidelining the white sikhs and that is how they feel wen we have our same punjabis walking around with turbans and beards and with red threads or rakhrees on their wrists !!
    I also see many sikhs with vedic gemstone or birthstone rings in gold on their fingers. Now these very 'nagh' have obviously been prescribed by some vedic brahmin pandit !
    Yet no one says anything to these people that walk around openly, yet we criticise the statue OUTSIDE the 'birh' in espanola.

    We need to stopand clean our own critical minds first before we get depressed.
     
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  9. chazSingh

    chazSingh United Kingdom
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    great post....backed up by some divine gurbani:

    sabh thae neech aatham kar maano man mehi eihu sukh dhhaaro ||1||
    I judge myself to be the lowest of all; in this way, I instill peace within my mind. ||1|| 532
     
  10. BlazinSikh

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    Mr chazSingh Ji, your thoughts are the right thoughts, i completly agree with you, after starting this thread, and replying back to Prakash.S.Bagga Ji first post, I've been thinking about being a just incorporating Waheguru Hukam's in my life and hopefully those who see will probably do the same by incoporating Waheguru Hukam in to there life rather than what anyone say's. So i thank you for reply.

    Mr Luckysingh Ji, hey if someone does good, than thats great i am not saying people who are in different sect of sikhi do not do right, so i'm sorry if my thread has given this sort of indication, even bad people have done/do good things in their lives (no i am not saying this radhasoami baba is a bad person)

    Yes i do agree when someone does good, it should be disregarded I thank the baba that has directed the man towards GOD, i to can learn from that and do hopefully do the same. But then i do believe we should care and see that people do not blend their belifes and sikhism belife to think that they can create whatever they THINK is right, and also make money out of it for themself, rather than humanity.

    First of all i was not "sidelining the white sikhs", i was full of joy that i see sikhs of non punjabi heritage. So please do forgive me if my thread gives of this indication, i personally do not hate anyone of colour, or from different background, this is not sikhi and personally that is not me. Secondly i do agree with you and i wasn't just "targeting" them, personally i know punjabi sikhs who wear'N'care gemstone etc etc, i also know punjabi sikhs that follow sect and so on. An example of punjabi sikhs are my parents, my mother side believe in all of this gemstone, star sign and other rubbish, i've personally seen that this all a scam no reality behind this. And from my dad side the follow a dera known as SachKhand Nanak Dham which is a sect established by Mahraz Guru Darshan Das, and yes some of teaching are teachings from Guru Nanak Dev Ji, however some of his teaching are non sikhi teaching such as it is not mandatory to keep your kesh and so on. What i am trying to say was why have sect in sikhism why can't we just be one big family, brown sikhs, white sikhs, black sikhs, yellow sikhs, american sikhs, british sikhs, canadian sikhs, sikh sikhs. I mean what is the point and use of sect who have teachings which differer from sikh teachings.

    Personally i do "hate" the 3HO, i envy those who have amrit, i am a sikh who born in to it i never knew the understanding of sikhi up to when i was 16/17 year old, i regret that from a young age i did understand/follow sikhi. I wish i could half of a sikh like the 3HO sikhs.

    Yet i do believe issue of wearing "vedic gemstone or birthstone rings" should be discussed and other issue such as caste system, as most punjabi sikhs still believe in caste e.g. my mum

    Sangat of SPN please for give me if my thread has cause many anger, or upset.

    Luckysingh Ji forgive me if i have said anything in this post that may upset, or anger you.

    peacesign
    WJKK WJKF
     
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  11. chazSingh

    chazSingh United Kingdom
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    Satnaam Ji,

    I think lucky Ji was just pointing out some reasons that have been mentioned many times before as to why people think sikhi is on the downhill...

    In life there are many things that appear wrong, or that shouldnt be happening. Gurbani makes a strong point that only god can judge people...because he knows our true feeling deep in our hearts.

    Imagine we stand before god...and he asks what we did in our lives...and you reply "i fought for what i believed was right"...
    God may say "thanks for that, but BlazinSikh...you fought for all these things while still having anger, hate, revenge, ego, desire within you...these evils still affect you"

    on the other hand if you become a better, purer person....your actions become that much more effective...people take you for your word, they'll trust you, you'll trust them...your actions become worthwhile.

    just my thoughts

    god bless
     
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  12. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh United States
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    hey Blazinsikhji, No need to be apologetic.
    You have not upset or angered me in any way, I don't do that at all.
    Besides I have done enough wrongs in my life to be angering my very self.
    I was just trying to uplift you by enabling you to look at things differently. The problems are not just in certain areas in sikhi, the problems are everywhere and within us as well.

    We all learn on here by saying what we think or feel and then getting some feedback on it- AND that is all you have done. Never shy away from asking about what you believe and what you feel.

    Waheguru bless
     
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  13. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Lucky Singh ji,
    This is more for you and Chaz Singh ji. I think others may, given their circumstances, find it hard to see it.
    The more deeply I study God the more I realize that everything is alright. That in fact, things are fine the way they are. There are no problems. Yes I do feel emotions, perhaps even anger and frustration at the world, people, and myself sometimes, however, this is my avidya, inability to see God, in those situations where I feel negatively and not due to something outside of me.

    Of course, if and when a "problem" arises, God will either through me, my body and mind, or through others, or as Himself, come to the rescue. But the individual self is a helpless entity. It is stressed out by a perception of problems, which arise out of its inabilities.

    I would agree with the emphasis on becoming a better person and through that we become a better channel for God's powers. This is a good start, and leads you away from avidya, and into being a Gurmukh.
    PS I think the Nags, gems, are beneficial for those who think they are beneficial. I also have nothing against brahmins or pandits. :grinningsingh:
     
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    #12 BhagatSingh, Nov 14, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
  14. chazSingh

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    I feel if god is everything...then he himself knows why certain experiences are to be had. If all is god, surely he is experiencing himself...learning more about himself...otherwise whats the point in having experiences? just my thoughts and feelings.

    I also feel while we are at a certain level of consciousness, things appear to be inperfect. but i think through Simran, deep meditation (along with Seva and sharing in our daily lives) our consciousness starts to develop higher...we start to feel and see more in our lives...we start to see events from a different perspective ... sometimes when the world is at play, you step back and just breath it all in, analyse it...and it starts to appear as a play...a drama.

    I've only been doing Simran/mediation for almost 1 year...and only last 2 months of that have been daily amrit vela simran/meditation. this stuff is the key to unlocking everything...bit by bit, day by day it makes changes to us...and the people around us...our sight expands...and i'm sure as it expands further we will really see god working all around us, not just thinking it, but really feeling it, seeing it, communing with it...and we'll know why things are happening as they are...and we'll realise the whole system is completely perfect....and none of us ever die. fear will dissapear.

    God bless
     
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  15. harcharanjitsinghdhillon

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    Majority are egoist hard headed and self centric, even if you pour sulphric acid on their head their ego will still remain inflated..to my oppinion I think there is no remedy for this probelm
     
  16. Luckysingh

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    I too don't feel it's all that bad. There has always been problems, it's just that with time these change accordingly but the weight of them is usually similar.

    With many of us, it's the problems that actually open our eyes into seeing god. When everything in your life is hunky dory and no problems, then it is so easy to get 'lost' in yourself. Whilst being lost in yourself you end up very far away from God.

    I don't tend to worry about things too much and this sometimes scares others around me. I think they sense that I may be a little 'loopy'!!!!
    As far as I see it, I have wasted too many moments of my life worrying in the past and also too many moments chasing my own rainbows.

    I do really feel that all the inbalances and problems we have in the world and personal lives are actually all caused by us.I think we are responsible for all the actions that lead to some kind of misery.
    It's always better to blame yourself for the problems you come across around you, that way you don't invoke unnecessary feelings of anger towards others.

    We need to give and take, but we spend and expect too much of the taking.

    I too don't have any problems with these and I don't deny their benefits.But my point was directed at the hypocritical sikhs we have that sideline white sikhs for example. We have so many that accuse others of arti, puja, idols...this and that... and yet some of these same sikhs go around with pandit prescribed gems on their fingers. Personally, I have come across three of these sikhs within last few months!!!!

    This is what I mean about blaming others for disruption, we should first blame ourselves, as all events occur due to some sort of 'knock-on' or dominoe effects.
     
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  17. techsingh

    techsingh United States
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    I totally agree with you.

    ਕਰਹਿ ਕਰਾਵਹਿ ਮੂਕਰਿ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਪੇਖਤ ਸੁਨਤ ਸਦਾ ਸੰਗਿ ਹਰੇ ॥

    ang. 823
     
  18. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Tech Singh ji, please share with us the meaning of the shabad.
     
  19. techsingh

    techsingh United States
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    From my limited understanding exactly what it says ਕਰਹਿ ਕਰਾਵਹਿ ਮੂਕਰਿ ਪਾਵਹਿ.
    For you it may be different and maybe you can elaborate it for me.
     

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