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What does Creator look like to you?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Harry Haller, Nov 12, 2011.

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  1. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Gurfateh

    Although the philosophical and pragmatic elements of sikhism interest me hugely as a way of living your life, I come unstuck on the love for Creator. It is very difficult to love something you cannot hear, you cannot see, you cannot touch, although Creation can be heard/seen/touched, Creator cannot. This is hindering me in my development somewhat.

    The defination I am currently holding dear to me is the perfect Harry that exists in my head, I have a vision of a Gurmukh Harry, the way he dresses, acts, thinks, talks, is different to me, his aspirations and values, also are purer than mine, He is not concerned with the now, for nowism, is merely meism, he is concerned with tomorrow, with consequences, with the harvest of good seeds, not the planting, he has forsight, and vision.

    It is this vision, the essence of Creator in my head that, certainly in the short term, I love, and trust, and have faith in, to align myself to that pure Harry, possibly an infinitely impossible task, but nevertheless, that remains the object of what I would call Creator.

    I am interested in how others define God/Creator/Waheguru
    What do others focus their devotion on?
     
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  3. harmanpreet singh

    harmanpreet singh India
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    Re: What does Creator look like to you

    ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਨੈਨ ਨਨ ਨੈਨ ਹਹਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਕਉ ਸਹਸ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਨਨਾ ਏਕ ਤਹੀ ॥
    You have thousands of eyes, and yet You have no eyes. You have thousands of forms, and yet You do not have even one.

    ਸਹਸ ਪਦ ਬਿਮਲ ਨਨ ਏਕ ਪਦ ਗੰਧ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਗੰਧ ਇਵ ਚਲਤ ਮੋਹੀ ॥੨॥
    You have thousands of Lotus Feet, and yet You do not have even one foot. You have no nose, but you have thousands of noses. This Play of Yours entrances me. ||2||( Guru Granth Sahib)
     
  4. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Re: What does Creator look like to you

    Harmanpreetji,

    thanks very much for your post, however I am looking for an extremely personal view of what Creator is, rather than what Gurbani says, Who is it that you pray to? What do you think of?

    thank you
     
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  5. Chinu

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    Re: What does Creator look like to you

    I focus my devotion on the person, who i think is a "Superman" (Puran-Purakh), and then i pray O god!, O Nanak, please make me like this.

    That's all -- this my devotion.0:)

    "Satshriakal"
     
  6. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Re: What does Creator look like to you

    Thank you chinuji, but what exactly is it that you are thinking of? a swirling fog? superman himself? I want to know the exact manifestation of your thoughts when you think of Creator,
     
  7. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    Re: What does Creator look like to you

    My Dear Harry ji,
    Your posts are thought provoking. For sake of convenience I shall respond to your query in two parts

    A. Explanation Based on Physical attributes

    If we are looking for a definition in terms of His physical appearance , I think it is not feasible as per Gurbani. At many places we have a reference to some of the physical attributes of God or creator.But all these attributes are stated out of love and are only metaphorical.Per Gurbani, He is not comprehensible. Few lines should fortify this.

    • The Supreme Lord God is Infinite and Divine; (98-8, mwJ, mÚ 5)
    • He is Inaccessible, Incomprehensible, Invisible and Inscrutable. (98-16, mwJ, mÚ 5)
    • You are Inaccessible, Incomprehensible, Infinite and Unfathomable. Your Value cannot be expressed. ||3|| (118-1, mwJ, mÚ 3)
    • The Lord is Inaccessible and Incomprehensible. He has no master, and He is not born. He is obtained through love of the True Guru. ||1||(120-5, mwJ, mÚ 3)
    • He is Inaccessible and Incomprehensible; through the Shabad, understanding is obtained. (130-5, mwJ, mÚ 4)
    • The limits of the Inaccessible and Incomprehensible Lord cannot be found.
    • (130-11, mwJ, mÚ 5)
    • The Inaccessible and Incomprehensible Lord is the highest of all. Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, He is known. ||1||(184-6, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    • He is Inaccessible, Incomprehensible, Eternal and Infinite. (207-1, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    • God is Inaccessible, Incomprehensible and Imperishable; He is known through the Perfect Guru. ||2||(218-6, gauVI mwJ, mÚ 5)
    • You are my Support, O Life of the World; O my Lord and Master, Inaccessible and Incomprehensible. ||2||(233-10, gauVI, mÚ 3)
    • O Guru Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, the Unknowable, the Incomprehensible. ||8||8||

    B.How Sikhs Remember HIM

    If we look at the opening Lines we come across 'Mool Mantra' that gives the essence of attributes of the Creator and that is how most sikhs visualize HIM


    ~~~~~~ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. THE NAME IS TRUTH.
    CREATIVE BEING PERSONIFIED. NO FEAR. NO HATRED.
    IMAGE OF THE UNDYING, BEYOND BIRTH, SELF-EXISTENT.
    BY GURU’S GRACE ~ ~~~~

    c. Addendum

    God is an infinite source of energy. Energy has no shape be it physical, kinetic, mechanical,, electrical....and so on so forth..

    I have some problem with my Browser and for the time being close here
    Best of Regards
     
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  8. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Taranjeetji,

    Again, wonderful reply, but it not answer my question, I know what we are supposed to direct our prayers at, and I know the definition by Gurbani of what creator is, but at the end of the day, when we are alone, and we are thinking of God/Creator, what is it that we think of? Creation? Trees? waterfalls? My image is, like I said, a perfect Gurmukh Harry, is that is the essence of Creator within me, so what is the object of your thoughts, not what does Gurbani say, thank you
     
  9. Tejwant Singh

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    Harry ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Thanks for your candor and sharing your inner nakedness with us all. It makes us look within. One can only "Love" The Creator by loving the Creation, again through Seva.

    Gurbani says: "Sabh Gobind hein, Gobind bin nahin koiee".

    In other words,we are all drops of this infinite ocean called Ik Ong Kaar, hence we represent The Source through our deeds. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru gives us the tools and shows us the way about loving.

    For me loving the Creator is recycling what can be recycled rather than putting all the rubbish in one bin. Having neighbourhood groups to pick the trash from the gutters and the footpaths every Saturday, offer hot breakfast to the homeless after that etc. etc. without getting too much into me-ism. It is a collective and an individual effort and once we make this as our mission in a nonchalant manner, then LOVE is in the AIR.:)

    Thanks again for your deep thoughts and introspection. You help us boot our inner computers much faster with them.

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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    #8 Tejwant Singh, Nov 12, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2011
  10. Navdeep88

    Navdeep88 Canada
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    Harry Ji,

    When I think of God, I think of all the ways I'm taken care of on a daily basis and have been, I receive food and shelter (through whatever way), I also receive love from my family... I feel like God is the giving hand. Literally a Hand... a hand that gives, a hand that guides relentlessly.

    The second thing I think of is my heart. Like theres a little flame or something in it that I have to guard or look after. Like that is the seat of faith and love in this body and it extends outwards from there.

    idk, im very weak right now but that's what its meant.
     
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  11. Ishna

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    Lovely deep topic, many thanks Harry bhaji.

    It appears we share this stumbling block. What to picture in your mind's eye when thinking about Creator? Christians have pictures like the Sistine Chapel expressing and image of Jehova, Hindus can access idols for their imagery. But what about Sikhs?

    Lets get naked here.

    As previously mentioned, Gurbani offers us many images and metaphors. My personal favourites are references to the Creator as the ocean. I picture It as the Ocean all around and creation is fishes in The Ocean. There is no distance between us and It because we're immersed in It, yet It is engulfing Absolutely Everything at the same time.

    The over-riding thing is, 'seeing' the Creator is like 'seeing' the wind. You can see the trees move because of the wind, you can feel it against your skin, you breath it in constantly, but you can't SEE it.

    Similarly with Creator, you FEEL it more than you SEE it. Everything you imagine It to be, bright lights (the sum of all lights), an ocean (or if your hungry, soup!), SuperSant Harry, they should conjure a FEELING of awe, love, inspiration, humility... I personally know I've hit paydirt when the images fade and I'm reduced to exploding with feelings of love and awe and all that can be said is 'Waheguru!'.

    It's probably one of those things which you have to ponder and figure out for yourself - other people's images probably won't be of much help in the end.

    Other people I've spoken to visualise their 'favourite' Guru Ji when praying. The beginning of Ardaas conjures an image of being surrounded by all of them, in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and surrounded by Might.

    But that's all just my personal humble opinion.

    Good luck.
     
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    #10 Ishna, Nov 13, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2011
  12. zenfunpeaceandjoy

    zenfunpeaceandjoy
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    I personally don't like the word God! It reminds me of orthodox religious thinking, stifling even suffocating! So when I pray(in my own non religious way) I do so to the Divine Source from which we all come. I don't have an image or picture of anything because to me that would detract from the unknowable Divine Source. All Life is in reality the Divine Source. So when I pray(or meditate) I go within and from there I pray/meditate to the whole of existence, because we are all Divine.
     
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  13. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
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    Veera I thought praying had to be in a religious way but Musketeer Ji to try to answer this age old question, I think he looks exactly like you, after you have removed all that makes you ,you, that is.
     
  14. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    To me CREATOR is a SYSTEM of invisible infinite waves or vibrations of Divine word GURU.I see this SYSTEM in words as EKANKAARu and the very first SYNBOL of SGGS as the figure of this SYSTEM.
    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
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  15. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Harry Veer ji some thoughts for a great thread. mundahug

    For me there are two visualizations.

    Eyes closed:

    • In such state, think from your local environment of self, family, house, neighborhood, Borough, Town, City, Country, World, moon, sun, stars and blue yonder
    • When I do that I see a transformational mass without limits
    • Some of the transformations are apparent through our learning and much is not
    • But it is all one continuum from our inside to the extremes of the universe
    Eyes open:

    • Our bodies, the life around, and all we can see alive
    • The keyboard, the desk, the chair, the phone, etc. are all atomic organizations in fast or slow transformations
    • Life becomes matter, matter becomes life and ever changing it is
    • What appears still versus moving is just a mirage as the atoms are themselves in motion continuum with electrons spinning for ever and energy/matter continuously transforming
    • We are part of that one continuum

    So it is all one that we see or conceptualize that is for ever transformational while taking shapes in some consonance that is too huge to be fully understood.

    So that is the visualization for me. It answers almost all worldly interactions and environments for me.


    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  16. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Veer Ji
    Try to see when your eyes are neither open nor closed ,then the pots and the potter might appear very near.
     
  17. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Scarlet Pimpernel veer I believe that is a given in my post. Pots are all near including self and the potter is everywhere including participating in us!

    However, I do not like the potter example as it implies a finished product but the real potter/creator manages continued transformation and there is no steady state to speak of or a fixed pottery article.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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    #16 Ambarsaria, Nov 13, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2011
  18. Randip Singh

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    Re: What does Creator look like to you

    Looks like you , me and everyone else on this planet . Onkar dwells in everyone.
     
  19. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Ambersariaji,

    Many thanks for brightening an otherwise bad day (ill ferret/sad wife), I can just about see what you can see, and it makes a bit more sense than the perfect Harry scenario, that has its flaws in that it would be constantly changing with my perception, and I am ready to bin that concept!

    In my minds eye, I see my little junkyard of a shop, from a camera view above, with the camera panning back and back and back, Essex (yes, I am an Essex person!) UK, Europe, World, Solar System, Universe, and thats just the beginning, it goes on infinitely, moving, swirling, until you are left with a view of consonance, yes, I can see that, although my wife could not, but then she was holding a baby dummy to a sick ferret at the time, and the ferret had decided to empty its bladder, so probably not a good time for me to be reading my phone,

    We then proceeded to debate the keyboard, I understood, I can look at a keyboard and see atoms moving, and electrons pulsating, I mused to her that this was all Maya, illusion, we see keyboards and tables, but its all just a mess of electrons and atoms, all revolving like dervishes, yes I can see it, but no, my wife continued to argue, whilst another stream of ferret urine got her in the eye, that these were not living, and were not growing, I will wait till she has put the ferret to bed, and continue the debate at around 4am, when she has her guard down,

    I have now plagiarised your name for god, for what god made, for the order that god put in place, and now your vision of god, I must start having original ideas of my own
     
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  20. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Re: What does Creator look like to you

    Randip ji!

    You are the person that facilitated my adherent change to Sikh! with your explanation of the eternal truth, many thanks for that, however the question is, what is it that you think of? I know you have socialist leanings, so would it be community? society?, what encapsulates Waheguru in your thoughts?
     
  21. Ambarsaria

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    Harry veer ji I am honored to know that I am talking some sense (personally speaking) in my post.

    None of us has original thoughts. These are all a matters of circumstance and much interactions with others that take us on in our psyche to see things. Sometimes good and sometimes bad. Some we like, some we hate and vice versa and I am as guilty as any of that if not more. :sippingcoffeemunda: :mundaviolin: mundahug

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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