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Islam What do you think of Islam?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by techsingh, May 6, 2013.

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  1. techsingh

    techsingh United States
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    Muslims and Islam

    ਬਹੁ ਵਾਟੀ ਜਗਿ ਚਲੀਆ ਤਬ ਹੀ ਭਏ ਮੁਹੰਮਦਿ ਯਾਰਾ.

    what would be the correct translation for this. many people have translated it to be mohammed the friend of god.

    Then bhai shaib goes on to say

    ਮਾਰਨਿ ਗਊ ਗਰੀਬ ਨੋ ਧਰਤੀ ਉਪਰਿ ਪਾਪੁ ਬਿਥਾਰਾ।


    which is translated into "Less powerful were killed and thus the earth became replete with sin."




    so i dont' know what my sahib means by "yaar" but dosent seem like he meant friend.


    But than in zafernama is says the mugals were not true muslims. which means trues muslims would have never done those things. But than that would go against what bhai shaib is saying.


    ਕਾਫਰ ਮੁਲਹਦ ਇਰਮਨੀ ਰੂਮੀ ਜੰਗੀ ਦੁਸਮਣਿ ਦਾਰਾ
    which is translated into "Armenians and Rumis were declared apostates (Kafirs) and they were decimated in the Battle fields."
     
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  3. Auzer

    Auzer
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    Sat Sri Akal everyone...

    I am visiting this forum after many months now I guess.

    Hope many of you still remember me :D

    So today, as I was surfing this forum, I came across a thread called "What do you think of Christianity" ... I found it really interesting. I gave my personal opinion and started surfing forum again..

    Then I thought "Why there is no such thread for Islam"?

    So here I am...

    What do you think of Islam?

    Give your deadly honest opinion. What you find good in Islam, if any? What are aspects you don't understand and/or think are bad? etc. What is the over-all picture of Islam in your head? What is your view of Qur'an (if you have read and understood it)? Or any other aspect...

    Don't hesitate to give your honest opinion. Just keep the discussion civil...

    Thanks..
     
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  4. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Auzer ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Welcome back. We have many threads on that here. Please go through them but if you still wish to pursue with the subject, then it is your duty to share with us what YOU think of Islam so we can ask you questions about it and get educated by you.

    Hope to hear from you soon.

    Thanks & regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  5. arshdeep88

    arshdeep88 India
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    Forgive me if my questions come across as insulting,stupid or silly
    i wont talk about any negatives
    but few are my queries ,don't consider them as me having negativeness for islam but only as some questions

    why bowing down to a certain direction only is considered sacred?
    labelling all as muslims (right from the first person who was born ) even the jesus , other people of high stature isn't bit selfish and somehow taking the credit of jesus and adding it to islam to glorify it more?
    Terming Prophet mohammad as the only last messenger isnt again selfish ?
    do god resides only in kabba ?
    do god comes to earth at early morning time during the time of fazr namaz?
    what do you mean by fatwa what are your views about it ?
    what are your views about those persons who don't believe in god but continue to do good services?
    why so many goats are ritually killed during bakr -eid just for the sake of offering to god?
    why people of different religions are expected to adher to the logics which many muslim scholars provide but not on themselves ?
    is devil only responsible for all the chaos?
    what are your views about wrong deeds done in full awareness by humans and then afterwards blaming on devil ?
    what are your views on preaching and converting of people of other religions to islam in some countries done either by fear or by luring people by money?
    why USA is the one and the only enemy some muslim scholars consider?
    Music is haram but if the same music connects people spiritually ?
    why it is forbidden for a muslim to marry a non muslim people? afterall all the people born and who surrender ego are muslims according to some scholars?
     
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  6. Auzer

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    No problem brother... I won't take offense at all. If you knew me, you'll know that I don't take offense in anything :D
    You can. You must..

    Lets go..
    No, its not considered sacred. It is only to provide direction to the Islamic Community. While praying in groups, where to face? Prophet standardized Kaaba as a direction, so that where ever Muslims are/were, they'll have a 'sense of direction' of where to face while praying. This promotes unity and gives community a sense of direction. Thats it. Since Prophet himself led prayers and told its followers to face kaaba while praying, now it has become the standard for Muslims.

    Btw, Prophet and Muslims also prayed facing Jerusalem..and then later changed to Kaaba..and it is Kaaba since then b/c Prophet didn't change it to any other place.

    Rewards of salah are in intention and sincerity, not in direction.


    No, the concept is a bit different then what you described. In Islamic theology, Prophet didn't invent some sort of new religion..he just preached the message of God that all prophet have preached previously. Don't take the word "Muslim" in today's context. Jesus wasn't a follower of Prophet Muhammad...but he preached the message of God just as Prophet did and in this sense all prophets are same. They all preached oness of God.
    The idea is that Prophet Muhammad is the last prophet in the chain of Abrahamic Prophets. But I see your point, which is valid since you are from an eastern religious tradition.
    No. Not at all. Kaaba is nothing then a black cube.. Prophet Muhammad gave NO 'extra' significance to Kaaba. He even told a black (ex) slave, Bilal, to stand ON the kaaba bare feet and call people to Islam. The very wisdom behind this move was to show people of Mecca that it wasn't "Kaaba" that held any significance..but the message of Islam and sincerity to God.
    Are you talking about Fajr Namaz? I don't know what do you mean by god coming to Earth. Morning prayers are just like other prayers...God listens to our prayers if we pray sincerely. I don't know what do you mean by if he comes to Earth etc.
    Fatwa only means opinion. Thats it. People go to scholars to ask their opinions about different issues. These opinions are called "Fatwas". No one "has to" accept a fatwa. Its just an opinion. Thats it. And just like all opinions, there are whole range of fatwas regarding different issues. My view is that listen to different fatwas regarding the issue..and obey the fatwa that your rationality most accepts.

    In classical Islamic theology, people who do good deeds but are never exposed to Islam/God OR their heart is not genuinely convinced to believe in Islam/God, then such people will get reward in after-life for their good deeds.
    You mean Eid-ul-Adha? Well, its not 'offering to God'. It is for commemorating the great sacrifice that Prophet Abraham was willing to make in his submission to the God.

    Read more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_al-Adha

    No one is expected to adhere to the logics of Islamic scholars. Can you make it more clear that what you want to say, if I misunderstood you?
    No. Human beings have free will in Islam. They just can't say "Oh, devil made me do it" and get away. Humans are accountable for their actions.
    This is hypocrisy. And God will hold them accountable for their actions. This is position of classical Islamic theology.
    Sharing your faith is alright...but threatening people or bribing them to convert is absolutely ridiculous and unIslamic.

    haha no its not. Its all about contemporary politics. Since U.S is today's superpower and it interferes in Islamic World..hence you see resentment against U.S. It just like medieval European Christendom's resentment against Islamic Superpowers invading and subjugating Europe...It has to do with politics.
    Music isn't haram. Its a topic on which alot of "fatwas" are present. Some scholars are of opinion that it is haram, while others say its not haram. Good music in moderation is not haram in Islam. There is no clear-cut command in Islam that forbids all Music.

    Sufism actually promotes spiritual Islamic Music..
    So that the community might be preserved. You have to understand that when these laws originally came, there were very few Muslims in the world. if, at that time, they had extensively married with non-Muslims..in couple of centuries, Islam would've become extinct.

    So don't see this law from today's perspective..try to see it from the perspective of early Muslim community.

    Also, many Muslims are now marrying non-Muslims...

    Hope it helps you in getting a bit more clearer understand of Islam.

    JazakAllah :)
     
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  7. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    I have noticed a cut on the forehead of thousands and thousands muslims which they get by hitting their head on the floor. Is it considered sacred or is for good luck? Is it part of the prayer?
    sahni
     
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  8. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur
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    This is a question I have had for a long time. Please answer clearly and without hedging.

    I understand that in Islam that the Prophet Mohammed is the last and, I think, greatest of the prophets and the Holy Q'uran is the final revelation of God - Allah - to mankind.

    That being the case, any new revelation that came after him must be false. Where does that leave Sikhi, which came long after the Prophet?
     
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  9. Auzer

    Auzer
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    haha..no, Muslims don't 'hit' their heads on ground during Salah :gingerteakaur:

    And regarding that mark (called prayer bump lol), well people who pray alot have them. In some cultures, it is a good thing to have. It shows that the 'boy/man' is a regular practicing Muslim and hence his reputation excels among people. People in Egypt sometimes get fake prayer marks just to impress girls :D

    Besides this, there is no significance of that mark in Islam nor its a sign of good luck. Praying to God matters most--prayer mark doesn't.

    I think you are talking about this, right?

    [​IMG]

    The slight black mark on the forehead, right?
     
  10. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Auzer ji it's great to have you visit us again. I always value your thorough contribution and thoughtful input.

    What do I think of Islam? I'm not sure. I think it's a very comprehensive religion, and if one is happy to submit under it they would be very happy and content. I like some bits of the Quran which are very beautiful and speak of the truths of the universe.

    I also admire the devotion it can generate in people (not the extremist kind), and I personally think the hijab can be very pretty.

    My only real concerns come up around sharia law. I'm strongly in favour of a secular government, secular laws, secular education. I think there needs to be religious freedom under that as long as it doesn't contrevene the law of the land. I worry when I read about parts of England where some groups of Muslims are putting up 'sharia zones' where sharia laws are enforced in parts of England.

    I have only read the first 4 chapters of the Quran. I've since read it can be more helpful to read the last few chapters first which are more about Allah, then go back and read the rest which is more about laws. However my priority is to read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji first.
     
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  11. Auzer

    Auzer
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    People/teachers who came after Prophet and taught the same/similar message are to be respected. If they teach against Islamic principles of monotheism etc then they must be rejected.

    Sikhi's message is pretty similar to that of Islam as far as I know. It doesn't teach polytheism or human worship..
     
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  12. Auzer

    Auzer
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    Thanks for the post Ishna ji..

    Just one friendly suggestion...

    If you want to read Qur'an, then better go to some Mosque or get some Muslim friend along who knows the commentary/Understanding of Qur'an etc. It'd be helpful/easier. I've read bible and Qur'an. Since Qur'an has no 'story line' , it can be confusing as hell for readers reading it in English..I'm sure you have observed this too...Readers get confuse that what the hell is happening...

    Stay blessed.

    PS. Idiots like "Sharia Brigades", or "Anjem Chaudry" etc don't represent Sharia law. Muslims only practice "Sharia Law" in affairs like divorce, marriage, personal matters, inheritance, food, sexual affairs etc.

    The political Sharia ended with the end of Ottoman Empire. Other than extremists, no one cares about re-establishing any global caliphate..but I do see your concerns...
     
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  13. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Thanks for the advice on reading the Quran, ji. I usually seek out further information on the internet or ask in a Muslim forum.

    Speaking of forums:

    I've certainly seen Muslims on other forums who want this, and who say it will happen, because it's going to happen just before the end of the world.

    *shrugs*
     
  14. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Auzer ji

    I may have missed your last sojourn at SPN because of my illness. So far this thread has been interesting (Too often in the past, when I have said that it has been the kiss of death. But let's keep our hopes up!). :grinningkaur:

    Sharia Law is a concept that would be a good one to explore. "Sharia Law" much like the idea of "freedom of religion" gets tossed about to mean many things according to the individual or group using it.

    For example, there are parts of Sudan where Sharia Law is not only religious but political even if the political use of Sharia Law was ended with the caliphate. In Saudi Arabia there is a kind of Sharia police that runs about checking on whether women are covered up enough. In Egypt Sharia Law is used to adjudicate civil questions, such as wills and trusts. The Napoleonic code is used for criminal cases. In parts of Nigeria it is used to stone women to death. In none of these examples do the people involved consider themselves extremists.

    Now let's turn it around. Maybe burqa has nothing to do with Sharia Law. I don't know. Nonetheless. In France the burqa has been banned for wear in public places because it supposedly infringes on the personal freedom of pious Muslim women even if they make an independent choice to wear it. There the tension is with fundamental values of France: liberty, equality, fraternity. Ironically, freedom of religious expression - to wear burqa - is curtailed in the name of liberty. When does exercise of Sharia Law conflict with the exercise of democratic principles?

    In the US so far the burqa has not caused a stir, even at the neighborhood level. But something else very strange has been going on. In several states concerned citizens have gone to their state legislatures to seek laws that prevent the exercise of Sharia Law. Supporters are concerned that Sharia Law will spill out of the mosques and into the streets. The bills have been tested in courts. Courts find that such a bill cannot be passed into law to prevent something if it has not happened yet - common sense, I think. No Muslim community has tried to govern its membership by Sharia Law. We have had no stonings or beheadings that I know about. Yet the pressure continues. As far as I can tell, Sharia Law in the US is practiced only as it relates to the practice of Islam.So far no violations of US law that I know of.

    All this boils down: How does anyone who is not Muslim, or even Muslims who are not scholars of their own religion, make sense of what Sharia Law is and is not? How should it be applied in countries that are predominately Muslim (not theocracies like Saudi)? Why do countries like Nigeria tolerate extreme expressions of Sharia Law, in areas where the majority of citizens and lawmakers are Muslim? (By analogy, the US would not allow polygamy in Arizona and forbid it New Jersey, regardless of what majority wishes might be.)

    And what is a accredited Islamic web site as you have in your signature. Who accredits these sites? Thank you
     
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    #13 spnadmin, May 31, 2013
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  15. Brother Onam

    Brother Onam United States
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    I have only read the first 4 chapters of the Quran. I've since read it can be more helpful to read the last few chapters first which are more about Allah, then go back and read the rest which is more about laws. However my priority is to read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji first.[/QUOTE]

    WJKK WJKF

    In fact, most Qur'ans are organized with the longest surah first, through to the shortest last. So there is no deliberate order thematically that results. It is not a easy book to read; it was never really intended to be read as a book, with a beginning, middle and end, but rather it is simply a compilation of many revelations over a long time, resulting in much repetition.

    I find that in most great religions, the mystical break-aways tend to get closer to the sacred Truth. There is a mystical component to Christianity which strikes me as closer to the Truth; in Judaism we find Kabbalah, in Islam we find Sufi, in Hinduism there are Bhakti traditions etc. To my knowledge, Sikhism may be the only of the great faiths where the faith itself is mystical, and there is no need for a mystical break-away. The thrust of the faith is direct experience and communion with the Holy, here and now, without much ritual and promises of a heavenly afterlife.
     
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  16. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    These words are breathtaking! :idea: I think you are right!
     
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  17. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    Let us see how gurbani answers arshdeep88 questions:why bowing down to a certain direction only is considered sacred?
    ਸਚੋ ਦਹ ਦਿਸਿ ਪਸਰਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਹਜਿ ਸੁਭਾਏ ॥ the divine understanding is that He prevades in all the direction, thus confining infinite to one direction is descriminition.

    Q. Labelling all as muslims (right from the first person who was born ) even the jesus , other people of high stature isn't bit selfish and somehow taking the credit of jesus and adding it to islam to glorify it more?
    A. there is no Muslim; there is no Hindu," meaning that such labels cloak our true nature.

    Q. Terming Prophet mohammad as the only last messenger isnt again selfish ?
    A, ਆਵਨਿ ਅਠਤਰੈ ਜਾਨਿ ਸਤਾਨਵੈ ਹੋਰੁ ਭੀ ਉਠਸੀ ਮਰਦ ਕਾ ਚੇਲਾ ॥ ਸਚ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਸਚੁ ਸੁਣਾਇਸੀ ਸਚ ਕੀ ਬੇਲਾ ॥੨॥੩॥੫॥ In order to speak the truth we have 35 mard ka cheyla sitting in SGGS and Guru sahib says, 'hor bhi uthsi mard ka chaila and kaiti chhuti naal - many more can be mard ka cheyla to whom laal rang (of gian) jisko laaga.

    Q. Do god resides only in kabba ?

    A. ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਸਬਦੇ ਖੋਜੀਐ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੋ ਲੇਹੁ ਸਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਲਿ ॥੧ in order to be enlightened with divine wisdom, our body is kabba where God resides thus God has made you to live in you and with you, but we have installed the idol of self-centredness and denial of God inside. As we remove this, God comes to dwell with and in us as intended.
    Q. do god comes to earth at early morning time during the time of fazr namaz?
    A. Amrit vela is the state of mind.
    Q. is devil only responsible for all the chaos?
    A. There is no devil as per gurmat.In Guru Nanak’s philosophy there is neither ‘Satan nor ‘holy spirit’ or any other power that could stand against Him and if there is anyone equal to Him, then it means there are two God. Where number two starts, universe starts and He does not come under any count because He is the only One.The biggest philosophical difference semitic religions and us is when it says, ‘no ko hoa na ko hey – that even God cannot create one more God even he wishes so. Guru Nanak’s doctrine is completely different than the other religions. The argument that God created everything, and therefore God created evil --raises some very bothersome questions about the nature of God. If God created evil then why would God care enough to be present in our immediate lives (be felt as an immanent God) offering an alternative to evil?Evil is simply the absence of God. Evil does not nexist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. That is why when guru sahib visited mecca, he advised instead you through the stone at fictitious satan, through stone at the real satan which is your manh.

    Q. what are your views about wrong deeds done in full awareness by humans and then afterwards blaming on devil ?
    A. Dadda dosh n deeyo kissai dos krama aapnia.
    sahni
     
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  18. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Can you please give me some verses from Quran to justify your answer or any other references? Or is it just your opinion?

    How is Sikhi message similar to Islam? Give concrete examples please.

    1.Who gave Islam the authority to be the last word on seeking God?
    2.Where is the freedom for anyone to seek God they want to in their own ways?
    3 .Isn't that imposition on the whole world who worships differently than Islam? Don't they become kafirs and need to be killed by any means?

    4.On what Islamic principles is the rift between the Sunnis and Shias?

    1.What is wrong with Polytheisim? Are one billion Hindus wrong and Kafirs so need to be killed if they do not convert to Islam.

    2.Who are Aga Khanis in the Shia sect? They worship/revere Aga Khan and all Aga Khans are world known womanisers and adulterers who married many non Muslim women and had kids with them.Rita Hayworth, was not a Muslim which is one example out of many.

    So where do Islamic principles stand in the above?

    Hope to have honest responses.

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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    #17 Tejwant Singh, May 31, 2013
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  19. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Brother Onam ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Well said.

    Sikhi makes a Sikh's life from unbelievable to unforgettable.

    Thanks & regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  20. Auzer

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    Offcourse. Its a legal code that is always changing/evolving depending on the contemporary environment, reality of present time, and wishes of those who want to achieve their own purposes by using this law as a tool.

    These things happen with every law-code. I can show you many disturbing things in our U.S constitution that were added during old days in order to subjugate women and slaves etc. But judging U.S constitution only from these clauses would be wrong. Similarly, judging Sharia by people's bad actions is not the right way. Sharia isn't some 'absolute' code of law. It is different from places to places, people to people etc..Its how humans use it to their advantage..
    Offcourse. And in Africa, many Christians are still burning young girls alive due to their biblical belief that they are 'witches' and hence must be burn according to God's law. The reason for giving this example is not to attack Christianity but just to show how scripture/religious laws can be misused in a society pinned down in civil war, suffering from dire poverty, and with high literacy rates.
    Sharia has no place for it. Also, Saudis barely follow any Sharia. They follow their local laws mixed with Islamic Puritanical touch. I have lived in KSA..I know lol ...

    Do you know why Saudis don't allow women to drive? Because the biggest tribe around Riyadh (Saudi's capital) has a tradition where it is considered disgraceful if a women rides a camel by herself. Women must sit in the back and let some man ride the camel. This is more graceful/respectful for women. Guess what? Saudis translate this tradition into modern era by applying it on cars :D Hence women aren't allowed to drive in KSA. Now, Saudis will give 'religious spin' to this tradition by claiming ridiculously stupid things. But people who live in KSA knows where all this comes from. Saudis are tribal for more time than they are Muslims..Same goes for Afghans etc...hence many tribal traditions still survive in these societies.. Sadly, people in the West confuse it with Sharia Law/Islamic Law.

    Almost never.

    If you are a Muslim living in West, you can only follow Sharia Law in your personal capacity. Like no pork, no sex, no drinking, halal banking if you like etc. Remember, all of the above is if a person choose to follow Sharia Law for himself..and to what extent he follows it is also his choice.

    Sharia can't be use as the law of land in any non-Muslim majority country.

    Now, if a country is Muslim-majority, and if they decide to apply Sharia law on criminal level..like death for rapists..then this is democracy too. Since majority of people want it (it they do), they'll get it.

    So you see, there isn't any much of a conflict b/w democracy and Sharia. Also, it depends on one's interpretation of Sharia. If someone does a very, very extreme interpretation of Sharia..then he'll be in conflict with just everyone..as it is the case with most extremists..haha..

    So you see, Sharia Law works like any/all other law codes..

    Just like you make sense of every other legal code. Non of us know the constitution of our land..but just very few basic laws that are universal..like killing in punished, individual freedom is granted to everyone, and all of us adults have a right to vote etc. For anything more complicated, we have lawyers/legal experts to comment on the issue. Same goes with Sharia..Muslims know the universal/personal aspects of it..Like rape is punishable by death ( in a Sharia governed country), pork is haram, and drinking is also haram (under personal sharia practice) and so on..but if you really want to know some deep issue in Sharia..then one goes to the Mufti to clarify things etc. (Remember, you don't have to obey the Mufti. You can go to different muftis and can get different "Fatwas" (opinions) on the issue..



    Just like Prophet (SAW) told us to do.

    Through Shura (parliament)/consensus etc.
    )

    I don't know much about it. Nigera is having a civil war b/w Northern Boko haram and South groups etc...

    lol

    Well, its accredited by me..do you need any other accreditation now? :D Actually, I saw many posters posting BS sites as 'sources' on Islam/Muslims..I was kinda mad at them and hence I made this my signature..It is just a Muslim website dealing with spiritual life, health, sports, sexual life, physiology, Sharia'h Law , contemporary politics etc etc.. The whole point was that if you really need to learn something about Islam, atleast learn it by actual sources/Muslims themselves. Learning Islam from Christian missionary, anti-Islamic websites only churns more ignorance..

    Therefore I had made this as my signature...If someone wants to learn Islam..atleast ask Muslims or go to normal Muslim websites...

    Give this site some try one day..believe me, its not "convert luring" website. Inside it has thousands of articles on Muslims, Islam, contemporary life, sexual life etc etc...

    JazakAllah..now I'm very sleepy..I'll try to answer others later :)
     
  21. Auzer

    Auzer
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    SPNer

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    Also guys, though I like answering your questions, I would also really love to hear more of what YOU think of Islam. It can be negative or positive, no problem. But please go and read the opening post of this thread and respond to it as well, if you can.

    Thanks and cheers...

    :happymunda:
     

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