Wake Up Call To Sikhs !

[muslim]

im glad to hear that.

 

[thecoopes]

Sorry I don’t know your name so have to use the title name, Muslim. Anyhow peace be with you.

I am truly impressed with the amount of work you put into your posts my humble contribution follows:

Hi, first may I say about polygamy and Muslims, as long as I don’t have to pay in my Taxes for increased family income supplement whether you have one or fifty wives is not my concern.

However on your point about polygamy and the religious beliefs of Christians with the Bible saying nothing about one wife.

It actually teaches one wife.

Although the whole Bible is viewed as gods divine word, it is the teachings of the Christian Greek scriptures that are the basis for Christian beliefs, where a teaching from what is known as the Old Testament or Hebrew scriptures is not in conflict with the thoughts conveyed in the former then this too would be viewed by a Christian as sacrosanct.

The Hebrew scripture is full of instances of polygamy; this though is not the teaching in the Christian Greek scripture.

QUOTE:

“This is why a man will leave his father and mother and stick to his wife. So that the two will become one flesh”.


Notice that it uses the singular “wife” and not the plural “wives”? Also that the two will become one flesh!

In addition numerous letters by the Apostles clearly show a Christian should be the husband of one wife.

However in male dominated societies and in disagreement with Divine will men have manipulated Gods word so that they have been able to take more than one wife, even today certain Christian sects use scholastic gymnastics so as to be able to circumvent Gods will.

They justify their actions in the same manner you have described as the benefits and reasons that Muslims legitimise polygamy.

Also trying to split hairs on whether Islam or the West has the best respect for women is pointless.

You believe that women are better off under Islamic attitudes to the sexes. We have a saying in Britain. “ You would say that wouldn’t you.” But from a people who engage in what you call honour killings and these committed mainly against women I doubt that the Hijab is anything more than the manifestation of male domination that masquerades as respect.

Kind regards


John C

 

[muslim]

Remeber honour killings have nothing to do with islam and for a muslim to kill another is one of the worst sins, and so again you are judging islam from followers who arent always true to islam, as the saying goes there are always a few bad apples that ruin the bunch or whatever it is, you get my drift. So John what is your solution to the problems of rape, pedophillia and sexual assualts that are carried out on mostly women. Unlike any other religion islam a given clear guidlines to a womens dress code where as sikhism or hindus allows modest dressing. But the problem with that idea is the concept or general concencus of modest or moderate dressing is changing with the times. As we can see looking back over the years it seems womens colthes are becoming more revealing, more tight and so forth. so if hijjab is not the answer what is?

 

[thecoopes]

You have a valid point and there can be little doubt that half clad women are more likely to arouse sexual desire than someone who is dressed more modestly.

The people in this moment of time do seem to have lost something in that evil appears to be one of the most prevalent forces. I am not criticising for the sake of bloody mindedness but would point out that paedophilia is against the section of society that even in Islam is not dressed in Hijaab’s, also many sick rapes are now sadly against OAP’s. Do you not think that rather than the dress codes itself the lack of general morals is one of the main reasons.

Also when you have any religion that legislates on one thing then it has to legislate on everything, it then becomes just a book of rules.

In Christianity the command was to write it on your heart so as to love your neighbour as yourself, but alas Christianity for many has become a book of rules, with people just wanting someone to tell them what to do.

I really believe that unless you have a relationship on a personal level and as an individual, recognising you are accountable to God and you as an individual have to work it out for yourself, proving each step you take. Unless we do this we just become part of a huge juggernaut of religion where we surrender our reasoning to religious leaders. This would be great if they were right but the consequences for us if they are wrong would be catastrophic, "I do not wish to be the slave of another mans conscience."

Just a point, most of the honour killings I have read about were to do with Muslims and the channel 4 program that was “I won’t marry a white” was to do with this strict view among Asian families especially Muslims.



Just to retrace our steps on this polygamy thing. As an old man that has been married it certainly would not work with liberated Western women as I can tell you If you value your sanity one of them is more than enough!:8-

 

[Arvind]

Lol its funny how when on this site if anything is said in offense to sikhism the thread is close or what ever but if islam or other religions its perfectly okay.

Readers on this forum are aware of the openness here. Please enlighten us, Which threads were closed? Yes, there was one thread with arrogant arguments, which was put under observation for some time, and now you must have seen that restored - Without any editing.

Further, Gyani ji gave you detailed reply in other threads, there was no reply from your side. Let him know, if there is any problem in understanding any particular thing, and we are here to help you out.

Also, this site doesnt intend to become any bashing kind of site. So I would like to know those threads, which mention such bashing material. I am not in favor of keeping hatred and intolerance filled threads in this forum, initiated by SPN members, whatever reason may be. Kindly do this favor to us, by letting us know.

Enjoy Life!

 

[drkhalsa]

Dear Muslim



I dont want to argue about what Islam teaches but what i am giving is facts

your assertion that rotten apple spoils pthers does not seems to work here all these are Islamic countries and all are showing signs of rotten stuff and the rest that live in western world do do such things because western law (which is based on rationaity) is saving muslims and there women



Jordan:

On May 31, 1994, Kifaya Husayn, a 16-year-old Jordanian girl, was lashed to a chair by her 32-year-old brother. He gave her a drink of water and told her to recite an Islamic prayer. Then he slashed her throat. Immediately afterward, he ran out into the street, waving the bloody knife and crying, 'I have killed my sister to cleanse my honor.' Kifaya's crime? She was raped by another brother, a 21-year-old man. Her judge and jury? Her own uncles, who convinced her eldest brother that Kifaya was too much of a disgrace to the family’s honor to be allowed to live." The murderer was sentenced to fifteen years, but the sentence was subsequently reduced to seven and a half years, an extremely severe penalty by Jordanian standards.

Chicago Tribune, May 3, 1998

Lahore, Pakistan:

6 April 1999, 29-year-old Samia Sarwar, the mother of two young boys, was shot dead in the office of her lawyer. Samia was seeking a divorce after suffering years of domestic abuse from her violent husband. Her family felt that in seeking divorce, she had tarnished their honor, and for this she was brutally killed.

Amnesty International, 1999

Palestine:

A 25-year-old Palestinian who hanged his sister with a rope: "I did not kill her, but rather helped her to commit suicide and to carry out the death penalty she sentenced herself to. I did it to wash with her blood the family honor that was violated because of her and in response to the will of society that would not have had any mercy on me if I didn't . . . Society taught us from childhood that blood is the only solution to wash the honor."

Al-Ayyam, June 1, 2000







In the last few weeks, the Swedish society has been touched by the brutal and calculated murder of Fadima Sahindal; a young courageous woman who chose to live according to her will and paid the price by her life. In the last two months, two other young women in Denmark and Britain were killed by their fathers because of the honor of the family. Honor of men and the family took their lives. Honor killing is a tribal and Islamic practice prevalent in Islam- ridden countries and Muslim inhabited communities in the West. Being killed deliberately and brutally is, in fact, a price that victims pay to practice their minimal human rights such as how to dress, talk to men other than their male family members, live, work and study independently, and marry at will, or have voluntary sexual relations.

Hundreds of women get shot, burned, strangled, stoned, poisoned, beheaded or stabbed every year in Islam ridden countries because their male relatives believe their actions have soiled the family name. They die, so family honor may survive. According to this tribal and religious practice, woman is a man's possession and a reflection of his honor. It is the man's honor that gets tarnished if a woman is 'loose'. The murderers and their defenders refer to this verse of the Koran that allows husbands to beat their wives: "As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill - conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them", the Koran, chapter 4, verse 34. Honor killing is a tribal practice that has been incorporated in the religion of Islam, because of its anti - women nature and misogynist philosophy. And the law is usually on the man's side, not only in the Middle Eastern and the Central Asian countries, but shamefully, in the Western countries too. They often letting murderers go unpunished or with a light sentence.

According to this Islamic concept and tradition, from the early childhood, girls are taught about "eib", which means shame, and "sharaf", which means honor. And everywhere girls go are reminders that their most important mission in life is to remain virgin until they marry. Boys are also taught to have "ghayrat", meaning to be ardent. All these concepts are Islamic concepts, and that is why the killers always defend their acts of murder by these Islamic concepts. According to the UN statistics, the majority of these murders occur in the Islam - ridden countries and Muslin inhabited communities in the West.

Though, honor killing may seem not much surprising in societies such as Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Yemen, its occurrence is indeed shocking and shameful in the heart of Europe in the 21st Century. And that is where the reactionary idea of Cultural Relativism is put into practice to justify women's victimization by excusing Islam and backward traditions. Unfortunately, until recently which some measures were implemented by the Swedish government, this government not only neglected to protect the lives and the rights of these women, but also justified their murders under the name of respecting 'other' people's religion and culture. While the murderers have repeatedly and openly defend their act by referring to Islam and the Koran, the majority of feminists, the mainstream media and intellectuals try to explain these murders as the prevalent patterns of domestic violence against women in the Western societies. While the murderers, whether in the Middle Eastern countries or in the Muslim inhabited communities in the West, openly state that their act of murder are "crimes of honor", and that they are merely following the directions set down in their religious beliefs, both in the Koran and in the Bible, the apologetic Western intellectuals repeatedly assure us that it is not Islam and the backward traditions, it is the common pattern of violence that is happening to the Western women too.

Swedish intellectuals should show the honesty that is required and expected from intellectuals, by telling the truth, by siding with those innocent young women who were victimized and continue to be brutally victimized because of the Islamic and backward tradition. It is not acceptable to apologize for Islam and backwardness.

And as far as the Swedish government is concerned, there shouldn't be a different basis for people's right in the one and same society; in the Swedish society. All should be considered as Swedish citizens and equal before the law. The Swedish society is duty bound to safe guard and protect the rights of women and girls from Muslim origins. This could be done only by abolishing all the respective discriminatory laws against these girls and women. This could be done only when there is no respect, excuse and legal interpretation for the misogynist Islamic and traditional beliefs and practices.

As with many Holy Books the Quran is open to interpretation. Many of its teachings are paradoxical, contradictory and not relevant to the present period. To give just one example, the Quran has entire sections on how to treat a slave because in the 7th century slavery was seen as quite normal. Here are some of the teachings the Quran has with regards to women.

Negative things the Quran says about women: "Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other and because men spend their wealth to maintain women. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those women from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. They if they obey you take no further action against them. Allah is high, supreme." Holy Quran. Sura 4:34

And for those of you who speak Arabic: "Al-rijal qawwamun ‘ala al-nisa’ bi ma faddala Allahu ba‘duhum ‘ala ba‘din wa bi ma anfaqu min amwalihim. Fa al-salihat qanitat, hafizat li’l-ghayb bi ma hafiza Allah. Wa allati tukhafuna nushuzahunna, fa ‘izuhunna wa ahjuruhunna fi’l-madaji‘ wa adribuhunna, fa in ata‘nakum, fa la tabghu ‘alayhinna sabilan. Inna Allah kana ‘Aliyyan, Kabir."

In the teachings of the Quran adulterous women should be flogged while women found guilty of fornication should be put under house arrest until death or until "Allah ordains for them another way."

Also according to the Quran, a daughter can only receive half the inheritance of a son. A woman's testimony in court is worth half that of a man's. The compensation for the murder of a woman is half that as for a man.

Positive things the Quran says about women: The education of girls is a sacred duty. Women are allowed to own and inherit property. And, according to the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad, sexual satisfaction is a woman's entitlement.

​

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Women in Taliban Afghanistan

Though the Taliban have been driven out of power in Afghanistan much of the laws and traditions they enforced still remain in place. Mercifully the situation is changing but slowly. . .

• Since theTaliban took power in 1996 women have had to wear a tentlike garment called a burqua. They have been beaten and stoned in public for not having the proper attire, even if this means simply not having the mesh covering in front of their eyes. One woman was beaten to death by an angry mob of fundamentalists for accidentally exposing her arm while she was driving which she was also forbidden to do. Another was stoned to death for trying to leave the country with a man that was not a relative.
• Women were not allowed to work or even go out in public without a male relative; professional women such as professors, translators, doctors, lawyers, artists and writers were forced from their jobs and restricted to their homes.
• Homes where a woman is present must have their windows painted so that she can never be seen by outsiders. They must wear silent shoes so that they are never heard.
• Women live in fear of their lives for the slightest misbehavior. Because they cannot work, those without male relatives or husbands are either starving to death or begging in the street, even if they hold Ph.D.'s.
• Depression is becoming so widespread that it has reached emergency levels. There is no way in such an extreme Islamic society to know the suicide rate with certainty, but relief workers are estimating that the suicide rate among women must be extraordinarily high: those who cannot find proper medication and treatment for severe depression and would rather take their lives than live in such conditions.
• At one of the rare hospitals for women, a reporter found still, nearly lifeless bodies lying motionless on top of beds, wrapped in their burqua, unwilling to speak, eat, or do anything, but slowly wasting away. Others have gone mad and were seen crouched in corners, perpetually rocking or crying, most of them in fear. It is at the point where the term "human rights violations" has become an understatement.
• Husbands have the power of life and death over their women relatives, especially their wives, but
  an angry mob has just as much right to stone or beat a woman, often to death, for exposing an inch of flesh or offending them in the slightest way.

​

Women in Bahrain

• In Bahrain, a male doctor may legally examine a woman's genitals but is prohibited from looking directly at them during the examination. He may only see their reflection in a mirror.

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Women in Bangladesh

• Over 2000 women a year are victims of fatal or disfiguring acid attacks for alleged improper behaviour. (The World and I, May 2003)
• A rapist can sometimes marry the woman he has assaulted and avoid prosecution. This saves the family's "honor" and the woman's life. The result is that the assailant is now effectively allowed to rape his victim repeatedly, with the blessing of the court system.

​

Women in Egypt

• A woman cannot leave the country without her husband's permission.
• FGM (Female Circumcision or Female Genital Mutilation) is widespread in Egypt.
• "Honor Killing" is still practiced in rural areas and even in the main city of Cairo..
• Wife beating is so prevalent that most housewives see it as a normal part of marriage. Social workers spend much of their time just trying to convince victims that their husband's violent acts are unnacceptable.

​

Women in the Islamic Republic of Iran

• The legal age for marriage of a girl is 9 years old.
• Iran's penal code specifies, "The stoning of an adulterer or adulteress shall be carried out while each is placed in a hole and covered with soil, he up to his waist and she up to a line above her breasts". Court appointed officials or ordinary citizens then pelt the accused with stones large enough to cause pain but not large enough to kill immediately. In the Islamic penal code called Sharia the burden to prove guilt in a man is much more than with a woman. Thus women are punished more by their "transgressions" than men. Two women were stoned to death in Iran in 2001, one for adultery and the other for appearing in a pornographic movie. Cited in TIME Europe; Sept 2, 2002, p. 26-7

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Women in Jordan

• Article 340 of the Jordanian Penal Code states, "He who discovers his wife or one of his female relatives has commited adultery and kills, wounds, or injures one or both of them, is exempted from any penalty." In December 2001 Articles 97 and 98 allow for a reduced sentence for crimes committed in a "fit of fury" related to the perceived loss of honor. Approximately 75% of such "honor" killings are committed by the brother of the victim. The average sentence for the murder is about 6 months. Attempts by International Human Rights groups to cancel or modify this law are charactarised as attempts to erode Arab morals and destroy families. 62% of Jordanians oppose amending this article.
• At least 50 women a year are imprisoned in Jordan on "honor" related cases. Most will be killed by their family if they are released. "Once imprisoned a woman can only be released to a male relative who must agree not to murder them. Regarless of assurances women are often murdered within hours after their discharge. In one particularly grisly incident, Fayaz Mohammed secured the release of his seventeen-year old daughter, Lamis, from a Jordanian Detention center. He guaranteed her safety and then slit her throat once she was released in his care. Fayaz was sentenced to nine months in prison for his crime. (The World and I, May 2003, p. 184-9)

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Women in Muslim Kashmir

• A woman who leaves the house with her face uncovered runs the risk of having acid thrown in her face.
• A woman's virginity is considered the family's responsibility, especially the male members who will dominate her for her entire life, first her father, then her brothers, then her husband and finally her sons.

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Women in Palestine

• Women are not allowed to travel alone. They are required to have a male relative accompany them if they leave the house. Unfortunately, her male "guardian" - father, brother, uncle or cousin - may also be her rapist. Should she become pregnant, he will publicly condemn for dishonoring the family and then kill her and the unborn child. In 2002, 17-year old Afaf Younes was killed by her father, who had allegedly been sexually molesting her. Afaf had tried to escape his sexual abuse by running away, but she was caught and returned to her father. He then shot her in the name of honor. (The World and I, May 2003, p. 191)
• Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest are blamed on the woman. Men are presumed innocent; the women must have tempted him into raping her or enticed him into having an affair. Even if a woman survives a violent rape, she is condemned for her "mistake" and may be killed by her family. (The World and I, May 2003, p. 188)
• If a woman brings shame to her family, her male relatives are bound by duty and culture to kill her. "A woman shamed is like rotting flesh," according to one Palestinian merchant. "If it is not cut away, it will consume the body. What I mean is that the whole family will be tainted if she is not killed."

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Women in Pakistan

• In law, the testimony of one man is equal to that of two women
• For a woman to prove rape, four adult males of "impeccable" character must witness the penetration according to the local interpretation of Shari'a or Islamic Law. As a result very, very few men are charged with rape.
• However, according to a CNN report in August 2002, 60% of women are charged with adultery in Pakistan if they are raped. The punishment for their "crime" is that the women are jailed or are forced to marry their rapist.

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Women in Saudi Arabia

• Women are not allowed to drive automobiles or fly anywhere without the permission of their husband or senior male relative.
• Women can only work in complete segregation from men.
• "Honor killings" are widespread. A male relative can kill his female relative for such "offenses" as, allegations of premarital or extramarital sex, refusing an arranged marriage, attempting to obtain a divorce, or simply talking with a man.

I will write more in few days as I am busy in coming days


Jatinder Singh

 

[Living Mind]

if we want to build a peacefullworld,then i think islam needs to be banned in west and elsewhere...........

In my personal opinion, with the present 'global nature' environment of the world we live in and also the strength and size of Islam, it would be quite impossible to BAN it. However, I do believe in all earnestness that its influence has to be or rather MUST BE controlled. What could be done if possible is a universal agrement of all religions to stop the forced propagation of religions and the stop to misinterpretations and radical presentations of religions for personal or sectarian benefit.

Religions MUST be taken out of influence of politics and their leaders be prevented from entering politics or influencing it. If we care to notice, most if not all problems of the world tcoday are religion based and caused!!!!!

Religion is important but only is so much as it is to make us righteous and give us peace of mind; definitely not to control the populace and decide on how anyone should or should not live a life.

We have to remember that Man came first and then Religion; not the other way round!!!!!

 

[muslim]

Islam has nothing to do with honour killings, say what you like it is not permissible and is a great sin.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Islam has nothing to do with honour killings, say what you like it is not permissible and is a great sin.

I agree. It is not "Islam" per se...the killers in question are muslims who dont understand their religion well.

Just like the thousands of "SIKHS" in Punjab and elsewhere who ABORT FEMALE FOETUSES....are Sikhs who dont understand the SIKH RELIGION very well. GURU JI CONDEMNS killing of daughters/wives.... yet see how many dowry killings happen in Punjab sikh homes as well.

This is usually our misconception...we say "ISLAM" "SIKH" when we actually mean the Followers of islam, Followers of Sikhi...the two are worlds apart.

Jarnail singh

 

[muslim]

I totally agree.

 

[Platinum007]

In reguards to people saying Islam is still in the stone age, and hasn't moved fowards. Ever wonder, why? maybe it could be because Muslims don't want to because such advancements would lead to leading a false religion, and falsehood leads to a fake religion and a unpracticed one. In the end we are only here for lets say 60 to 80 years. why not fulfill the duty of God? (muslim pont of view)

So WHY would you want to evolve into this western society?.
from what i see all this has lead to many of our sisters spreading there legs to any guy, guys smoking up pot (because its okay and natural), drinking...

the way i see it, if you give society a little bit of something it will just ask for more and more... example: sex, look at how far its come from the 1900s just in the west.. now we have girls gone wild video's in cancun.

So basically all i'm trying to say is it seems Muslims are just keeping to there own way which is keeping TRUE to there religion and they refuse evolve becase they are afraid it would lead to what we have today in the west. Now if a muslim wants to live in the west that is his/her choice, after all saying such things like "muslims shouldn't be allowed in the west" is pretty ignorant especially when its coming form a sikh after all arn't sikhs suppose to treat and see all as equals regardless of there faith... Jew, Budist or whatever

 

[thecoopes]

Salaamulaikum I just love that Islamic thought.

Hi my friend, for what its worth here is my take on it, in respect to an objective view of Islam.

I say objective as I am no follower of any religion and am at the moment taking a fresh look at faith.



In reguards to people saying Islam is still in the stone age, and hasn't moved fowards. Ever wonder, why? maybe it could be because Muslims don't want to because such advancements would lead to leading a false religion, and falsehood leads to a fake religion and a unpracticed one. In the end we are only here for lets say 60 to 80 years. why not fulfill the duty of God? (muslim pont of view)



I have some sympathy with you here about changing to fit a modern world, the world may change but Gods word does not need to be processed for 21st century consumption.

However what I see in Islam and the interpretation of Gods will by its followers leads me to view them as just an elitist gang of myopic fanatics who believe that all who are not Muslim are dammed. This is first hand experience from living next to a large Islamic community.

As most people believe in their own religion with the same conviction as Muslims, and as all religions need faith the simple fact is, yours is true in your eyes due to faith all religions stand on faith, the faith you have does not make yours right any more than the faith I have makes mine right. Faith is unsupported belief, enjoy your religion but respect others, believe by all means yours is the truth but allow the possibility that others believe with the same faith theirs is the truth.


So WHY would you want to evolve into this western society?.
from what i see all this has lead to many of our sisters spreading there legs to any guy, guys smoking up pot (because its okay and natural), drinking...


Yes I have to agree with you here Western society leaves a lot to be desired in respect to morals.

Yet what an anathema that people who complain so much about the decadence of the West clamour to get here in their millions. Particularly to get hold of this wealth that has been generated by corruption. I don’t think the God you worship would see your argument for living in the West as valid!

the way i see it, if you give society a little bit of something it will just ask for more and more... example: sex, look at how far its come from the 1900s just in the west.. now we have girls gone wild video's in cancun. I haven’t seen that one, and if it offends don’t watch it.


So basically all i'm trying to say is it seems Muslims are just keeping to there own way which is keeping TRUE to there religion and they refuse evolve becase they are afraid it would lead to what we have today in the west. Now if a muslim wants to live in the west that is his/her choice, after all saying such things like "muslims shouldn't be allowed in the west" is pretty ignorant especially when its coming form a sikh after all arn't sikhs suppose to treat and see all as equals regardless of there faith... Jew, Budist or whatever

I’m not a Sikh or any religion you would recognise, I am a Anglo Saxon Westerner who thinks that we have left the door open for too many people who come here and bleat continually how bad everything is, but are the first in the welfare queue and first to scream when they feel their new Western freedoms have been infringed.

We do think all men are equals but ask that any who come to live with us treat everyone with the same respect.

 

[devinesanative]

Oh , Dear Muslim Bhai ,


Though muslims put lot of pressure on women to wear black cartridge over their body .

But , Muslim women not as humble as you think , they are also too hot n Sexy ...

Given a chance to them ... They will explode like a Atom Bomb...

This was in response to Platinum , Diamond and Gold member...

 

[devinesanative]

Salaamulaikum I just love that Islamic thought.

Hi my friend, for what its worth here is my take on it, in respect to an objective view of Islam.

I say objective as I am no follower of any religion and am at the moment taking a fresh look at faith.



In reguards to people saying Islam is still in the stone age, and hasn't moved fowards. Ever wonder, why? maybe it could be because Muslims don't want to because such advancements would lead to leading a false religion, and falsehood leads to a fake religion and a unpracticed one. In the end we are only here for lets say 60 to 80 years. why not fulfill the duty of God? (muslim pont of view)



I have some sympathy with you here about changing to fit a modern world, the world may change but Gods word does not need to be processed for 21st century consumption.

However what I see in Islam and the interpretation of Gods will by its followers leads me to view them as just an elitist gang of myopic fanatics who believe that all who are not Muslim are dammed. This is first hand experience from living next to a large Islamic community.

As most people believe in their own religion with the same conviction as Muslims, and as all religions need faith the simple fact is, yours is true in your eyes due to faith all religions stand on faith, the faith you have does not make yours right any more than the faith I have makes mine right. Faith is unsupported belief, enjoy your religion but respect others, believe by all means yours is the truth but allow the possibility that others believe with the same faith theirs is the truth.


So WHY would you want to evolve into this western society?.
from what i see all this has lead to many of our sisters spreading there legs to any guy, guys smoking up pot (because its okay and natural), drinking...


Yes I have to agree with you here Western society leaves a lot to be desired in respect to morals.

Yet what an anathema that people who complain so much about the decadence of the West clamour to get here in their millions. Particularly to get hold of this wealth that has been generated by corruption. I don’t think the God you worship would see your argument for living in the West as valid!

the way i see it, if you give society a little bit of something it will just ask for more and more... example: sex, look at how far its come from the 1900s just in the west.. now we have girls gone wild video's in cancun. I haven’t seen that one, and if it offends don’t watch it.


So basically all i'm trying to say is it seems Muslims are just keeping to there own way which is keeping TRUE to there religion and they refuse evolve becase they are afraid it would lead to what we have today in the west. Now if a muslim wants to live in the west that is his/her choice, after all saying such things like "muslims shouldn't be allowed in the west" is pretty ignorant especially when its coming form a sikh after all arn't sikhs suppose to treat and see all as equals regardless of there faith... Jew, Budist or whatever

I’m not a Sikh or any religion you would recognise, I am a Anglo Saxon Westerner who thinks that we have left the door open for too many people who come here and bleat continually how bad everything is, but are the first in the welfare queue and first to scream when they feel their new Western freedoms have been infringed.

We do think all men are equals but ask that any who come to live with us treat everyone with the same respect.

Dear Coopes ,


Though some always complain about the Western society corrupting the other societies , But , what I have observed that people have a natural instinct to get attracted to corrupt and corruption things , not to the good things which even may be in small quantities .


People say that in west people marry and divorce...


But , there are also some good people who have been together since their age of 11 or 13 and still maintaining their relationship.

No , one forces any one to do or not to do , but its the people themselves decide whether accept good things or bad things.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Oh , Dear Muslim Bhai ,


Though muslims put lot of pressure on women to wear black cartridge over their body .

But , Muslim women not as humble as you think , they are also too hot n Sexy ...

Given a chance to them ... They will explode like a Atom Bomb...

This was in response to Platinum , Diamond and Gold member...

Dear DS ,

You seem to be an exirianced person :}{}{}:

is this you ersonal exiriance or did some friend of your told you this true thing.

anyway bakri of al maujaroun left Uk after London Bombing as he was very brave with single hand.

Latter Bakri was arrested in middle east.
Das does not know what hapened next to him.

just visit the site of al mouhajroun again and it is under Jewish control.

There are still some elememts in UK Or India which use the resource of the system and people but want to destroy them or subdue them.
we call them Asteen Ke Samp ie snakes in cuffs.:down:

But all Muslims are not Bad either.

 

[devinesanative]

Oh Dear mind Reader ,

I am experienced without being experiencing anything.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

more elaborations about this statement are welcomed. ie Expirianced without expiriancing.

 

[devinesanative]

When , by the grace of God we will somewhere meet , then we'll discuss about experience .

But rightnow let us awaken ourselves to the above Invitation .