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Waheguru Simran, Nitnem, Gurbani Study: Which you do most and why?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Ambarsaria, Dec 4, 2011.

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Waheguru Simran, Nitnem, Gurbani Study: Which you do most and why? (Multiple Selection Possible)

  1. Waheguru Simran, why?

    53.8%
  2. Nitnem, why?

    11.5%
  3. Gurbani Study, why?

    57.7%
  4. None, Why?

    7.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    In our practice of Sikhism we do different things for spiritual endeavors and living. It goes without saying that all have varying positive influences on people's lives as such cannot sustain otherwise.

    1. Waheguru Simran

    SWEET SIMRAN - YouTube


    It has become increasingly popular over the years. Including it being made part of raen-Sabhai smagams. Something’s come to mind as follows,

    • Generally such is done where Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is in prakash
    • Generally done by people who have done the solemn bow in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
    • Is generally interjected with some popular tuks or names like Hari/Gobind/Prabh and variations thereof
    • It appears most vocal participants have their eyes closed and have appearance of wandering glance when they occasionally open their eyes
    • In a typical Katha session people have eyes open and still don’t appear to have wandering glance
    Do most of the sangat know and recognize that there is one Guru in the place and that is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? If they do, are they addressing Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in repeated chants of Waheguru?

    Certainly there is no necessity of any such once you offered yourself in a solemn bow in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to address Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    So what is the purpose and what is the lasting impact?

    2. Nitnem

    Amazing Easy to Learn Nitnem- Japji Sahib Part One - YouTube


    As part of an Amratdhari and a complete Sikh per Sikh Reht Maryada the Nitnem is required. The Gurbanis are chosen as being suitable for the times of day. What are your reaction and experience after each of the Gurbani’s is recited.

    You feel uplifted, charged to go, serene and at peace or some other emotions.

    3. Gurbani Study

    Gurbani study is a way to recognize through self, references, commentary and other resources the message that Guru ji give us in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    With limited resources, at times language difficulties (e.g. not knowing Punjabi), many a people do part of it through listening to Katha/discourses by eminent parchariks or wise.

    Bhai Balwinder Singh Rangila: Salok Mohalla 9 Katha Part 2 - YouTube

    This is also catching in popularity as a sign that people are equally hungry for understanding and more information that is available from Kirtan, Simran or nitnem.

    What are your thoughts?

    4. Other

    There are methods that people adapt like meditation. If you do so, what do you meditate on?

    Sahej Sukh Dhyan Meditation - YouTube

    Some examples may be,

    • Your understanding of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
    • Your understanding of creation or creator
    • Simply meditating on internal being and aiming for a calm and experiential state of mind
    If you do, what are your thoughts on benefits and results to share?

    Humbly submitted for dialog and discovery to help each other.

    Please liberally sprinkle with your thoughts in your own words from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji per the TOS of spn (complete sabads with English translation and a reference of panna/page reference). Srigranth.org is the best place to cut and paste from and then embed with your thoughts in a post.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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    #1 Ambarsaria, Dec 4, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
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  3. Ishna

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    Nice thread, many thanks.

    Just an observation... it may be worth mentioning the difference between Waheguru simran and Waheguru japna.

    Waheguru simran is the ultimate state of mind always, to be remembering Guruji all around constantly and aware of the interconnectedness of everything.

    Waheguru japna is the repetition of the word as a form of meditation.

    Apologies if the wrong Punjabi words have been used.
     
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  4. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    I chose Gurbani study in the poll myself. I find this is the least I can do to respect my Guru ji for the wisdom, the guidance and real life visualizations towards living that they have provided.

    Not trying to do so, I could not do. Such for me, totally personal and perhaps irrational to some, is insulting and at such point I rather not be a Sikh or if a Sikh be rather dead in shame.

    Sat Sri Akal.

    PS: I can watch Waheguru Simran with enjoyment but something in me does not allow me to participate in a live event. I attended part of such by Bhai Manpreet Singh ji locally and could not keep my eyes closed and when open would watch how people would look at each other to see if they were doing it, felt kind of funny and I did not stay long in respect of others. Absolutely not to put down anyone as there are perhaps many who put away their cares on such times of Simran and have the psyche refreshed to face ever challenging days in many people's lives.
     
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    #3 Ambarsaria, Dec 4, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  5. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    Gurbani advcates for the SIMRAN of NAAMu onlly
    and in particular RAAM NAAMu only.
    We can understand the difference between SABADu and NAAMu.
    Any SABADu is for PAPu but NAAMu is for SIMRAN.(There can be JAPu of NAAMu also)

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  6. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    prakash.s.bagga ji thanks for your post.

    Veer ji can you post an example of a Simran done according to this description and if the Simran is a Tuk or parts of SGGS or not. If from SGGS give one example that you really like for Simran purposes that meets your criteria and its context with the overall sabad as per spn TOS.

    So can PAPu do Simran or it is reserved for non-PAPu? In the thread at the start can you see who is PAPu or not in the Simran example.

    Is NAAMu part of SABADu or is it outside of SGGS? Why a PAPu who understand SABADu not understand NAAMu?

    Thank you.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  7. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    AMBARSARIA Ji,

    rwm nwmu aur mY gihE jw kY sm nhI koie ] (1429-10)
    raam naam ur mai gahi-o jaa kai sam nahee ko-ay.
    I have enshrined the Lord's Name within my heart; there is nothing equal to it.
    ijh ismrq sMkt imtY drsu quhwro hoie ]57]1] (1429-10)
    jih simrat sankat mitai daras tuhaaro ho-ay. ||57||1||
    Meditating in remembrance on it, my troubles are taken away; I have received the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. ||57||1||

    Can you tell me what is this RAAM NAAM.?
    Is this the word RAAM?
    Is this the word Waheguru?
    I consider this RAAM NAAM an important one in Gurbani.
    Prakash.s.Bagga
     
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  8. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Isi you are right, Master Musketeer is really talking about the modern day trend of the sangat entering ino coordinated chanting or feigned meditation, but for some reason referred to it as Simran which has a much deeper meaning as you suggested.

    The Sikh liturgy I experienced growing was more of sit back and feign that you understand.
     
    #7 Scarlet Pimpernel, Dec 4, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  9. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    It would be better first we know how a particular word is NOUN or ADJECTIVE in Gurbani.This is again a part of grammer understanding.
    I am sure you will try to understand this when you come across to give meaning to "GuR Kaa Sabadu" in interpretation of Sukhmanee.

    When you say can PAPu do SIMRAN ? You should realise you are talking of a person whereas there is no such person in Gurbani.It is the SIMRAN of the word PAPu itself if it suits anyone.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  10. ravneet_sb

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    Sat Sri Akaal,

    "Guru's Bani" is "Art of Living" it's very imortant as it is guide for all aspects of life.

    It teaches way to think, read, speak, listen, vision etc. Again it connects to all literal
    development (arts and sciences (nature, as ultimate science)).

    Regularity Nit(Daily) nem(remembring Naam) is important, as subject which we do not practise, we have to again refer books,
    either practise as way of life, or refer daily.

    Waheguru recitation is imporatant, for cleansing and connecting to "GURU's BANI"

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
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  11. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Gurfatehji

    I am on a slightly different path in that I never set out to embrace Sikhism again, but in the last year it has become obvious that there is much validation in the SGGS to backup everything that has been burned into me by the consequences of my actions, as such, I now consider myself a quite 'die hard' seeker, I am hugely interested in the Wisdom, the practicality of the SGGS, at times it is not pleasurable, like chanting or meditating, it is deadly serious, I fear the clock is ticking away, and time is going by, and I only have until my death to answer the multitude of questions that still persist,

    I think what we are seeking is the divine connection that fills us with that good feeling, if some people can find it by meditating or chanting, then thats great, I would never argue that they were on the wrong path, but it is only a temporary connection, like taking drugs, and then coming back down to reality again, I believe that if you can model yourself on the Gurus, embrace the frequency of Creator, then you would end in that feeling 24/7. For me, meditation and chanting merely gives me an insight into what life could feel like if I embraced the wisdom and lifestyle as set out in the SGGS.

    I have never been one to tease myself, again for me, it is akin to hiring out a pristine blue 1994 RR LSE (with working air suspension!) for a day, when I would rather spend some time working hard til I can afford to keep one forever.
     
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  12. Tejwant Singh

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    Ravneet ji,

    Guru fateh.

    Can you please enlighten me about the difference between Nitnem and Gurbani study?

    Are they different? If yes, then it what sense?

    Where did you get them meaning of Nem as remembering Naam?

    What is Naam for you?

    And please explain the last part which I did not understand that is: "as subject which we do not practise, we have to again refer books,
    either practise as way of life, or refer daily".


    Thanks & regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  13. ravneet_sb

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    Tejwant Singh Ji,

    Can you please enlighten me about the difference between Nitnem and Gurbani study?

    Nitnem is reciting of Five Bani's as a daily routine as a summary reading.

    Under the influence of "Maya" our mind gets filth, our actions tend to deviate from the
    path, unless and until our mind if formed as per "GURU's BANI"

    "Guru's Bani" is understanding of total book of 1430 Pages.

    Its not so easy to understand the whole book. Reading/writting doesn't resolve.

    To understand one word, the light, sound and matter related to word needs to be resolved.

    As an example : Make a child read apple/ recite apple/ but don't show/physically sense apple to him.

    Apple will be in front of him, one will never be able to understand apple as existence.


    Understanding of word intutive awareness, guru's bani has experienced every one as
    blind. but even phyically blind can get the way through imaginative sense.

    Like blind man sense the path through there imaginative sense.

    But person with eyes are intutively blind, close eyes for one day and understand
    how blinds find there way and experience blind,
    through there evoked imaginative sense.

    And we people with eyes are intutively blind and get hurted from obstacles, as a blind
    man.

    All of us are enticed and influence by "MAYA", clear the veil, understand "SURAT"
    If each word of "GURU's BANI" reflects to mind, one is connected to NAAM, or

    one is physically present, but imagination is at home/business/ SEX/ FOOD/ SECURITY/
    RELATION/ EGO

    Mentally not attached to "GURU's BANI"

    To me each "WORD" in "GURU's BANI" is "NAAM" and it connects to experience "World"

    Like to some persons word

    "SURAT" appears as face, to some as region in Gujrat, to some as imaginative sense.

    and all are True to there experience

    Depending on the experience, every one forms mind,

    but when it comes to "GURU's BANI"
    one shall discuss in contest of "GURU's BANI"
    not as experience of other sources such as movies, novels, etc.

    Mind formation can be related to formation of pitcher,
    when clay is soft it forms shape,
    but once it is formed, it makes noice, and
    imagine how much

    effort is for human to shape a stone
    and for "stone" to shape him as "GOD" what we seek.

    And when
    stone is form of human's ego
    "EGO's get's blasted to shape hard mind to make someone realise "GOD", and the way humanity reflects back.

    Getting trained and to give right training for religion is not easy path.



    Bhul Chuk Maaf

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki FAteh





    ,





    Are they different? If yes, then it what sense?

    Where did you get them meaning of Nem as remembering Naam?

    What is Naam for you?

    And please explain the last part which I did not understand that is: "as subject which we do not practise, we have to again refer books,
    either practise as way of life, or refer daily".
     
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  14. ravneet_sb

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    SAT SRI AKAAL,

    Biggest hurdle in learning is our formed "EGO's"

    Understanding of "EGO" formation, is how mind forms.

    As a analogy

    Clay if soft state can take any form, which is available as new child. Till 10-30

    Once the clay is formed, it gets heat, as youth. 30-60

    The formation is ready.

    Any re formation will tend to change the original form,

    Person will cry as feeling death of ego while living. And one really cries, once
    one reflect his animal instinct going away, and human is getting formed.

    So feel the pain to stone when it is carved as "GOD"


    Waheguru Ji Ki Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
  15. prakash.s.bagga

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    AMBARSARIA Ji,
    SABADu and NAAMu both are very much there in SGGS the only thing is we fail or avoid to recognise.
    SABADu is ann SINGLE WORD as NOUN
    NAAMu is always a pair of two Single words and is ADJ -NOUN and COLLECTIVE NOUN.

    NAAMu has been refered to MATTER (Vibrating) of the UNIVERSE in Gurbani(Now you are going to disagree on this)
    NAAMu is an ATTRIBUTE for the MATTER Vibrating) and describes the internal Quality of the MATTER(Vibrating) whereas NAME or NAA-Au is a word for recognition of the MATTER.
    ALL the MANTRA refered in Gurbani are related to NAAMu not to NAME or NAA-Au.
    So NAAMu is present within every matter of the UNIVERSE and NAAMu is OMNIPRESENT and OMNIPOTENT VIBRATING WAVE.
    Thus understanding of NAAMu requires an indepth study of Gurbani.

    The word is WAHi GURoo(I fail to understand why we write it as WAHEGURU.) You can give a look to the word in GURMUKHI SCRIPT and then see How this should be written in ROMAN to match Gurmukhi word.
    If we write wrong how we can understand correctly?

    The Basic problem is that we dont have correct english translitration of SGGS and this is tha main cause of confusion.

    I think first we should look into this how this anomaly can be removed then only we can understand Gurbani more clearly.

    I am fully aware that the subject in question isvery sensitive but at the same time while sharing views on such subject we should keep in mind the limitation of english translitration .
    These are my personal views only.
    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  16. Ambarsaria

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    Prakash.S.Bagga ji thanks for your post. Some comments.

    Veer ji that is exactly why ਨਾਮੁ is referred by me as a relationship to understanding or Gian/Knowledge.

    Prakash.S.Bagga veer ji I agree on this and it is my error. Actually Dr. Kulbir Singh ji Thind appears to have given correct trans-lite-ration as below.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ
    vāhigurū

    I used the most common usage (wrong) word. I will watch it in the future. As you know I read Punjabi while translating Gurbani elements and don't depend upon any trans-literations. So I am not affected by trans-literations in my study of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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    #15 Ambarsaria, Dec 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  17. prakash.s.bagga

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    AMBARSARIA ji,
    While I agree and appreciate the translitration of the word by Dr Kulbber Singh ji.
    But I would like to see his translitration for the whole of Gurbani.
    If you can mention me how I can make access to his site it would be nice of you.
    With thanks
    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  18. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Veer ji the above is from the following,

    srigranth.org.

    It is a very versatile site for searching, doing online Dictionary checks, Mahan Kosh, Peof. Sahib Singh ji's Darpan, Bhai Manmohan Singh ji, Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa ji and all in one place.

    ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ


    For example if you double click on any word (say ) it will take you to the dictionary and if you hit Home there it will take you to various option to search Gurbani, etc.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
    #17 Ambarsaria, Dec 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  19. Tejwant Singh

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    Ambarsaria ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    It is not your fault. It is the syntax of our native languages that make us pronounce and write in a wrong manner. We invert V for W and vice versa in English, just like the Germans.

    That is why I always write Vaheguru rather than Waheguru because is V not W.

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
    #18 Tejwant Singh, Dec 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  20. BhagatSingh

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    Ambarsaria ji,
    I hope this answers your question on why they are using the word "Waheguru". It doesn't just mean wonderful teacher, it is also referring to the teacher inside of you and God. The later being the same in non-dualism, that is, the teacher inside you is God. So no they are not calling out Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (although if they were that would not change much).

    Look how Bhai Gurdas ji poetically describes Waheguru mantr. Though one need not use it as it is just a word one uses to remember and repeatedly identify with the (inner) God.

    ੪੯ : ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ
    Waheguru Mantra

    ਸਤਿਜੁਗ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਾਸਦੇਵ ਵਵਾ ਵਿਸਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ।
    Satijougi Satigur Vaasadayv Vavaa Visanaa Naamu Japaavai.
    सतिजुगि सतिगुर वासदेव ववा विसना नामु जपावै ।
    In Satyug, Visnu in the form of Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu.

    ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹਾਹਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ।
    Duaapari Satigur Haree Krisan Haahaa Hari Hari Naamu Japaavai.
    दुआपरि सतिगुर हरी क्रिसन हाहा हरि हरि नामु जपावै ।
    The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari.


    ਤ੍ਰੇਤੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਰਾਮ ਜੀ ਰਾਰਾ ਰਾਮ ਜਪੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ।
    Taytay Satigur Raam Jee Raaraa Raam Japay Soukhu Paavai.
    तेते सतिगुर राम जी रारा राम जपे सुखु पावै ।
    In the the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that rembering Ram will produce joy and happiness.


    ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਗਗਾ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਲਾਵੈ*।
    Kalijougi Naanak Gur Gobind Gagaa Gobind Naamu Alaavai.
    कलिजुगि नानक गुर गोबिंद गगा गोबिंद नामु अलावै ।
    In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Guru Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited.


    ਚਾਰੇ ਜਾਗੇ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗੀ ਪੰਚਾਇਣ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਵੈ।
    Chaaray Jaagay Chahu Jougee Panchaain Vichi Jaai Samaavai.
    चारे जागे चहु जुगी पंचाइण विचि जाइ समावै ।
    The recitations o f all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man.


    ਚਾਰੋ ਅਛਰ ਇਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜਪੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਜਪਾਵੈ*।
    Chaaro Achhar Iku Kari Vaahaguroo Japu Mantr Japaavai.
    चारो अछर इकु करि वाहगुरू जपु मंत्र जपावै ।
    When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered,


    ਜਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਫਿਰਿ ਤਹਾਂ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥੪੯॥੧॥
    Jahaa Tay Oupajiaa Dhiri Tahaa Samaavai ॥49॥1॥
    जहा ते उपजिआ फिरि तहा समावै ॥४९॥१॥
    The jiv merges again in its origin.

    7 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੭
     
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  21. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Ravneet Singh ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    You write:

    What do you mean by the above? Is it just a casual mechanical parroting or is it about understanding Gurbani and using it in our daily lives is required? If not then Nitnem becomes irrelevant and a futile daily exercise.

    What do you think?

    Once again, pardon my ignorance, you mean learning, understanding, practicing even one page of Gurbani is not Gurbani? One has to understand all 1430 pages of SGGS, our only Guru to make it Gurbani?

    Some Banis are from the 1429 pages of SGGS, our only Guru in Nitnem. So you mean doing them is just a useless, unfruitful venture?

    First of all it is not a book. SGGS is our only Guru and of course understanding the whole SGGS is quite a task. Almost impossible. That is why we take hukumnaamas daily so we can follow them and work our lives of Miri-Piri based on them.

    Please elaborate the above.

    I agree. That would be bad teaching skills. Why would you make the child read and recite something without showing as far as apple is concerned?

    Are you trying to imply that our Gurus were bad teachers because they told us to parrot/chant/repeat?

    Not if you show the apple first to the child and then ask him to repeat the name till he gets it. After all he/she is a baby and just beginning to form words physically and put the picture of the apple in his brain's memory bank.

    Yes of course. I have many members in one side of my family who were born blind and all of them were/are successful as poets, Raagis etc etc.

    Please elaborate the above.

    Now you are contradicting yourself. Here what you said above:{ "Guru's Bani" is understanding of total book of 1430 Pages. } and now you are talking about just one word of Gurbani. Which is it?

    I know you are talking about other people not about you because you talk below about yourself. What made you pass that judgement on others?

    Only Ik Ong Kaar knows which milestone each of us is at. Neither you, me or anyone else can find that out no matter how many times we try to play Ik Ong kaar.

    Oh, now I get it. You claim that you are better than the people you talked above. How interesting! Isn't this called Me-ism?

    I beg to differ with you on that one. It would depend on the context. It has nothing to do with the imaginative sense.

    No they are not without the right context. Sorry to burst your bubble.

    Wrong again as mentioned above. All depends on the context.

    Who is doing that?

    Are you talking about idol worshiping and Murti puja now? What context made you change to this?

    Where did you get the above from? Please share with concrete examples.

    Who is getting trained and who is giving the right training? Please name some.

    Hope to learn from your interesting thoughts. Please respond in layman's terms so I can understand and learn from you.

    Thanks & regards

    Tejwant Singh
     

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