Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Vox Populi of Sikhi

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Tejwant Singh, Dec 10, 2009.

Tags:
  1. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
    Expand Collapse
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,559
    Likes Received:
    6,988
    Vox Populi of Sikhi
    by Tejwant Singh Malik


    I personally have no problems or any qualms about Prof. Sahib singing the poetry from Dasam Granth as I do not have any qualms about people including Prof. Sahib for singing varaans by Bhai Gurdas ji although neither of them is in the SGGS, our only Guru. Many claim without any evidence but due to the tradition of our oral history that Guru Sahib had indicated that vaarans by Bhai Gurdas ji is the key to the understanding of the SGGS, our only Guru, which does not hold any water because SGGS is not under any padlock that requires the key to open it, and stating that on behalf of our Gurus is an insult to them because they did not add any of Bhai Gurdas’ poetry to SGGS on purpose. The same is true for Guru Gobind Singh not adding his poetry but only his dad’s Guru Teg Bahadar. Undermining this decision of theirs is undermining our Gurus.

    Now, some have shown their objections that Prof. Sahib flaunted his knowledge of Gurbani to many during his hay days, which is second hand information and giving the benefit of the doubt is one of Sikhi traits which we should remind ourselves of as often as possible.

    Many have also said that when he sang and gave explanations about the poetry which he truly believed was written by our Dasam Pita and made a lot of money of it, the money he raked should be returned or given to some charity after his realisation or and awakening through the learning process which Sikhi is based on.

    Let me pose a question to them. If they worked for a company like Enron in the USA or Satyam in India and honestly thought that the company was doing everything under the law and in the honest manner but found out one day that was not the case, would they return the money that they had received from the said companies? I think not.

    Same goes for Prof. Sahib who honestly believed in something but later on in his life came to the realisation that it was not true, thanks to the way of life called Sikhi where learning, unlearning and re-learning is not a shameful act but a valour duty of a Sikh.

    Secondly, how do we know or rather who knows that Prof. Sahib has not given a cent to any charity or help the needy, ever?

    He had two choices, either to keep mum about it and kept on singing in the old fashioned way, knowingly this time that the so called “Gurbani” was not written by our Dasam Pita and kept on raking money by fooling others or admitting that he was fooled himself due to his own ignorance then and was wrong due to the lack of knowledge which can only be attained with time.

    He chose the latter despite being aware of the consequences of being stoned by others who claimed to have loved and adored him and took his love for granted, yet felt betrayed as if the love is a one way street. If they had truly appreciated Prof. Sahib’s love and then they would have loved in return by studying the Gurbani themselves. If they had played their part in this love affair then they would have applauded Prof. Sahib’s bravura rather than hurling stones at him with disdain. It is not Prof. Sahib who has betrayed them but they have done that to themselves because they were too lazy to perform their duty as Sikhs by studying Gurbani.

    Some say, why it took him so long to realise that the Shabads he was singing and raking money of from were not written by our Dasam Pita.

    For those I have a question.

    1. How long did it take them to reach to this Gurmat level that they are now and why didn’t it happen to them earlier? What is their excuse or justification?
    Some say that as Prof. Darshan Singh is a public figure then he should come “clean” to the public about when, why and how he came to the realization that Dasam Granth or part of it is not authored by our Dasam Pita.

    It seems like a valid request in the first glance but if we give ourselves a bit of time and think about it, we should come to know that the Sikhi path is the journey of the individual and each one of us carries our own spiritual torch either we are famous or not.

    Some say that let’s stay neutral which seems a bit puzzling to me because our history proves otherwise.

    1. Did Gobind Rai tell his father, our ninth Guru, Guru Teg Bahadur to stay neutral when the Kashmiri Pandits came to him for help?

    2. Did our brave Sikhs stay neutral when the Hindu women were kidnapped and raped by the Muslim fiends?

    The answer to both is NO and our history shows us quite nitidly what took place instead.

    Some say that this ruckus interferes with their spiritual writings and they can not concentrate or have the time to cultivate their passion, if they start discussing about this hot potato. They fail to understand that this hot potato affects Sikhi all over because of the Sikhi power has been abused by a few for too long at the top and these power mongers should be made to come to this realisation .

    Our short Sikh History is full of examples like this. In Sidh Gosht by Guru Nanak, He interacts with so called learned people who ran away from their duties and called themselves sages. Were these people acting as neutral while not performing their duties as householders, brothers, husbands, sons or fathers while the Mughals were marauding and raping innocent women ruthlessly in a fiendish manner?

    I fail to understand the true meaning of being neutral and what it entails.

    Sikhi is not about being insecure, which breeds parochial mindedness. Sikhi is all about breeding goodness within, no matter how, what or who the next person you come across is like. Only security in the self as a Sikh can help us cultivate open-mindedness which is one of the cornerstones of Sikhi, not by making someone an outcast, which breeds disdain and hatred rather than acceptance.

    The reason being that fighting for justice demands action and being” neutral” is inaction or sitting on the fence.

    Some also say that by putting all this in public will make the world mock us as Sikhs.

    Once again, let’s go back to our short and recent Sikh history.

    1. Wasn’t it a mockery when our fifth Guru, Guru Arjan Dev ji was tortured to death?
    2. Wasn’t it a mockery when our ninth Guru, Guru Teg Bahadar was beheaded at Chandni Chowk?
    3. Wasn’t it a mockery when our young boys and girls were beheaded in return for money so Sikhi could be erased from the face of this earth?
    4. Wasn’t it a mockery about all other Sikhs who were tortured to death, like Bhai Mani Singh, Bhai Taru Singh and many others whom we mention every time when we do Ardaas?
    In my opinion, all what is happening with Prof. Sahib is a very positive thing for Sikhi and for the Sikhs in general. This may be used as a wake up call for all of us who depend on other people for our Gurmat knowledge hence contradicting ourselves of the daily actions of Nitnem, thus admitting that this act has just been an act, nothing more. Just a mere ritual of parroting, nothing more.

    Once we admit that, and then may be our Nitnem will not be like a sand castle built daily on a beach knowing that it will be washed away and crumble with the first wave that hits the shore.

    If we do not make an effort to study, understand and put Gurbani into practice ourselves, so that, with our Guru's guidance, goodness can be bred within and shared with others, irrespective of someone's hue, creed or faith, rather than depending on others to do it for us, then only we can call ourselves being on the Sikhi marg.

    It is interesting to notice how the cauldron of hatred has come simmering on the edge of the pot which we thought had the Gurmat Amrit in it. It has shown how Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh, Hankaar have been only parroting words which we made ourselves totally detached from rather than making them our own meaningful ill traits that should be lassoed by us with the help of SGGS, our only Guru.

    Talking about the hatred against Prof. Sahib by the same people who loved and adored him once have shown the spiritual paper boats they have been sitting on while being rowed by someone else. They had forgotten that Sikhi is a one man/woman kayak and the rower him/herself is the sole traveler in it whether he/she is going over the calm lake or through the water rapids.

    SGPC should be sans any political influence from the reigning party or any other outside force is must. A consensus should only occur based on the teachings of SGGS, our only Guru, not on any egos which are running around hiding behind the wonderful baana bestowed upon us by our tenth Guru, Guru Gobind Singh. But, in order for that to happen, The SGPC, The Jathedaars of the Takhats- the both entities who wield and abuse their power in the name of Sikhi-, should study, understand and hence, attain the tools given to us in SGGS, our only Guru.

    These tools are to be used in order to cultivate the life of Miri-Piri which till today is considered by them as the umbilical cord of Sikhi. Sadly to say that this is a total misconception about this wonderful concept created by Guru Nanak but named as such by our sixth Guru, Guru Hargobind.

    Miri-Piri are the two parallel lines on which the Gurmat train runs. Until and unless we cut all kinds umbilical cords falsely knotted to the Sikhi womb, we can not find the way to run our Gurmat train. It will keep on sitting on the utopic platform, guised as Takhats, SGPC, and other GPC’s that are cropping up like mushrooms, at which the so called travelers have nothing to do but keep on bickering with each other because there is no Gurmat train to take the journey onto.

    It is time to take out our spiritual swords and speak up and out loud because justice is being ignored, especially by those who hold the power.

    Vox Populi of Sikhi demands that from each of us.

    Tejwant Singh
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 6
  2. Loading...

    Similar Threads Forum Date
    Sikh News Punjab launches populist 'atta-dal' scheme on I Day (Calcutta News) Breaking News Aug 15, 2007
    Sikh News Punjab launches populist 'atta-dal' scheme on I Day (IANS via Yahoo! India News) Breaking News Aug 15, 2007

  3. Admin Singh

    Admin Singh
    Expand Collapse
    Admin SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    Messages:
    5,974
    Likes Received:
    5,043
    Amazing use of power of words, so well authored!! :wah:
     
  4. harbansj24

    harbansj24
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    887
    The companies like Enron and Satyam hire highly skilled professionals like various categories of engineers who do their professional work only. They have nothing to do with whether the company is being run ethically or not. The people who were responsible for cheating have been adequately punished.
    There can be more relevant examples. When Guru Nanak ji, reformed Sajjan Thug, he asked him to get rid of his ill gotten wealth, which he did by donating it entirely for good causes. But it does not automatically follow that, skilled persons he had employed for making buildings or tailors whom he had employed for making his fine clothes also should have given away their money earned through the Thug. They were only doing a professional job.
    Similarly Emperor Ashoka, after the battle of Kalinga when he saw the human suffering that was caused by his desire to become a great emperor, stopped further conquests and utilised his his wealth for the good of his subjects. That did not mean that his waariors or other professionals employed by him should also have given away their money which Ashoka gave them.

    So Prof Sahib cannot be compared with those hired by big organisations as skilled professinals

    The above unprecendented sacrifices have made us all proud. They were made with determination for a cause and in no way can they be called as mockery. How can they be compared with the current spectacle in which both the proponents and opponents of DG do not have a clue in support of their arguments other than mere emotions such as Dasam Pita could not have said so and so OR He could have definitely said such and such because of so and so reasons?

    I think, this quite valid. Because if he had come to a firm conclusion that no verse of DG was authored or did not have his approval, then he must have very valid, logical and authenticated reasons for that. So why not share them. This will surely and greately help in the arguments getting more coherent because of his standing. Whereas at present only emotions run supreme.
     
  5. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    In my opinion, all what is happening with Prof. Sahib is a very positive thing for Sikhi and for the Sikhs in general. This may be used as a wake up call for all of us who depend on other people for our Gurmat knowledge hence contradicting ourselves of the daily actions of Nitnem, thus admitting that this act has just been an act, nothing more. Just a mere ritual of parroting, nothing more.

    I think you are onto to something important Tejwant ji,

    In the past week and a few days, the upsurge in commentary on the subject of Dasam Granth and Professor Darshan Singh has soared on the net, mail-groups, blogs, and forums. There was not such an outpouring of perspectives on these two subjects before then. It seemed that most were willing to abide by the SGPC edict that the subject not be discussed for fear of stirring controversies. Their argument was that the matter would be studied. First many seemed to abide by that decree. Since December 5, it seems now that people are finding their voice, vox populi, as you put it so well. People gave themselves permission. They have never been so eloquent or willing to share their views with courage.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
    Expand Collapse
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,559
    Likes Received:
    6,988
    Harbans ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    My initial quote:

    Quote:
    <table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Let me pose a question to them. If they worked for a company like Enron in the USA or Satyam in India and honestly thought that the company was doing everything under the law and in the honest manner but found out one day that was not the case, would they return the money that they had received from the said companies? I think not. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
    Your response:

    The companies like Enron and Satyam hire highly skilled professionals like various categories of engineers who do their professional work only. They have nothing to do with whether the company is being run ethically or not. The people who were responsible for cheating have been adequately punished.
    There can be more relevant examples. When Guru Nanak ji, reformed Sajjan Thug, he asked him to get rid of his ill gotten wealth, which he did by donating it entirely for good causes. But it does not automatically follow that, skilled persons he had employed for making buildings or tailors whom he had employed for making his fine clothes also should have given away their money earned through the Thug. They were only doing a professional job.
    Similarly Emperor Ashoka, after the battle of Kalinga when he saw the human suffering that was caused by his desire to become a great emperor, stopped further conquests and utilised his his wealth for the good of his subjects. That did not mean that his waariors or other professionals employed by him should also have given away their money which Ashoka gave them."


    Can you elaborate your Sajjan Thug example as you compared him to Prof. Sahib?

    Sajjan Thug knew that all his wealth was gotten through thuggery. Was that also the case with Prof. Sahib according to you?

    I am glad you mentioned Emperor Ashoka's episode. So, he changed after he came to the realisation. So, did Prof. Sahib. That is why he spoke against DG, and as asked in my essay, do you have any proof that Prof. Sahib has not helped the poor, or given to any charity or started any charitable work for Gurmat parchar? if you do, please share with us.

    "So Prof Sahib cannot be compared with those hired by big organisations as skilled professinals"

    Prof. Sahib IS the organisation, hence responsible for his own actions which he has shown time and again.

    Quote:
    <table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Wasn’t it a mockery when our fifth Guru, Guru Arjan Dev ji was tortured to death?
    Wasn’t it a mockery when our ninth Guru, Guru Teg Bahadar was beheaded at Chandni Chowk?
    Wasn’t it a mockery when our young boys and girls were beheaded in return for money so Sikhi could be erased from the face of this earth?
    Wasn’t it a mockery about all other Sikhs who were tortured to death, like Bhai Mani Singh, Bhai Taru Singh and many others whom we mention every time when we do Ardaas? </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
    "The above unprecendented sacrifices have made us all proud. They were made with determination for a cause and in no way can they be called as mockery. How can they be compared with the current spectacle in which both the proponents and opponents of DG do not have a clue in support of their arguments other than mere emotions such as Dasam Pita could not have said so and so OR He could have definitely said such and such because of so and so reasons?"

    Exactly my point which was tongue in cheek. As we know that all what I mentioned about our Sikh History was done in open and we Sikhs learned from that then this should also be in the open because we Sikhs serve a Nirbhau and Nirvair Ik Ong Kaar. Nothing should be done or decided behind closed doors. This is one more reason that SGGS, our only Guru is open to all to read and study irrespective of anyone's hue,creed or faith. After all we are told to live by Gurmat ideals bestowed upon us in SGGS.

    Quote:
    <table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Some say that as Prof. Darshan Singh is a public figure then he should come “clean” to the public about when, why and how he came to the realization that Dasam Granth or part of it is not authored by our Dasam Pita. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
    "I think, this quite valid. Because if he had come to a firm conclusion that no verse of DG was authored or did not have his approval, then he must have very valid, logical and authenticated reasons for that. So why not share them. This will surely and greately help in the arguments getting more coherent because of his standing. Whereas at present only emotions run supreme."

    Can you please elaborate what you want him to share or clarify with us? Do you believe that Charitars were written by our Dasam Pita?

    So, I have no idea what kind of approval or disapproval you are looking for from Prof. Sahib. Your input regarding this would help us at SPN to discuss this further in a fruitful manner, which allows disagreements which is part of the learning process for us as Sikhs. Being neutral is like keeping mum which does not serve any purpose when different voices need to be heard no matter how much they differ from each other.

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
  7. harbansj24

    harbansj24
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    887
    Tejwant ji,

    There is no question of comparing Sajjan Thug with Prof Sahib. We were only comparing if the employees of recalcitrant persons /organisations are also equally liable because in the earlier mail you had given the example of employees of Enron and Satyam.


    This was in context if Dasam Pita had authored or approved part or entire DG or not.

    Every one is using only emotions to say whether DG was or was not authored OR had or had not approval of Dasampita. These things have to have concrete evidence, this way or that. It cannot be based on mere believes.
    If you ask me personally whether I believe whether Dasam Pita wrote or approved Charitas or not, Iwould say that I BELIEVE HE DID NOT! But I also BELIEVE that that he could have written or caused to have written or approved some banis and stirring verses which are now part of Sikh psyche. But just such emotional believes will not get us anywhere and and differences in the panth will only get magnified and go out of hand.
    So if neither proponents or opponents have any reasonable evidence in their support, then is there any point in creating unwarranted controversies which lead to nowhere?
    Is it not possible to sit down like civilised Gursikhs and discuss which parts are acceptable and useful and which are the parts which have never been used by Sikhs and are unacceptable?
    Do we have call each other names and label each other or do have to disrupt Sangats just because some ragi would have sung verses from DG?
    Is this the way that our Gurus pointed to us? Are we not putting to waste their teachings which have also so lovingly explained, essayed and elaborated for us by Bhai Vir Singh ji?

    In another thread it is mentioned that AKJ has challenged Prof sahib to debate with reputed scholars on DG. Now this also not the proper way because in this sort of challenges one party has to necessarily win and other lose. This cannot be the purpose. We have to have calm, logical,sane and useful disussions with a view to solve this vexed problem.
    So since Prof sahib has been in a major way responsible for stirring this controversy, is it not his responsibility to agree to discuss and give his reasoned and logical views.

    After all the Sidhs also threw a challenge to Guru Nanak ji, But Guru ji with his calm thinking and reasoning won over the Sidhs.

    Gurfateh and regards
     

Share This Page