☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Translators And Free Will
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="curious seeker" data-source="post: 122557" data-attributes="member: 11092"><p>Taranjeet singh ji</p><p></p><p> As I post this, I realize that I have not yet read other's comments, so I apologize if I am repeating myself. To quote the line that, to me , is the crux of your argument:</p><p></p><p>'' What the English translation says [you have come, and now you perform actions to determine your future] amounts to complete freedom given to the man to act as as he pleases.If this is true then it is in conflict with the attribute of the God that He is omnipotent. Man's freedom will hit this provision and hence is not tenable. Man cannot be the chooser as He is bound with in the Command of His hukum.The english translation is, therefore , defective. ''</p><p></p><p> I am sorry, maybe I am too dense, however, when the English translation says: ' ... you have come, now you perform actions to determine your future' I do not see anything here but LIMITED free will and nothing at all that is in conflict with Hukam, Gods Power, God's Divine Law or with God's Perfect Will. Rather, I see it as saying: In the Perfect Will of God, the Rewards for the choices of man are predetermined. Not men choosing. Man must have the ability to choose or he could not even choose to be under the Hukam of God's will!!!!! </p><p></p><p>This does not, AT ALL, affect God's Omnipotence. For when it says above, '... you have come.. ' we came because we ARE CREATED by Sat Guru and His Word which expresses His Will. And when it says ' ... now you perform your actions to determine your future ... ' it means , to me, that we freely choose to act think, speak and act, but ONLY because God has given us the Free Will to do this. Thus when we choose we either choose what carries, for us, predetermined rewards that are good, or predetermined rewards that are bad.</p><p></p><p> Thus God remains omnipotent and man remains free to choose. However, those destined for Liberation (which is the main reward among the good rewards above) are the ones who REALIZE through the ENLIGHTENER, which is the SGGS (the Naam, the Gurbani, etc) that in order to be liberated one must put one's free will, (Along with the rest of ones's being) under the Hukam of God's Perfect Will. That is why it is the rewards for our choices (I.E. Salvation, Nirvana or reincarnation and suffering) that are predetermined and not one's choices.</p><p></p><p> That at least is my considered opinion. Now if the SGGS says different in the original Gurmukhi, I humbly stand corrected</p><p></p><p>Blessings</p><p>Curious</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="curious seeker, post: 122557, member: 11092"] Taranjeet singh ji As I post this, I realize that I have not yet read other's comments, so I apologize if I am repeating myself. To quote the line that, to me , is the crux of your argument: '' What the English translation says [you have come, and now you perform actions to determine your future] amounts to complete freedom given to the man to act as as he pleases.If this is true then it is in conflict with the attribute of the God that He is omnipotent. Man's freedom will hit this provision and hence is not tenable. Man cannot be the chooser as He is bound with in the Command of His hukum.The english translation is, therefore , defective. '' I am sorry, maybe I am too dense, however, when the English translation says: ' ... you have come, now you perform actions to determine your future' I do not see anything here but LIMITED free will and nothing at all that is in conflict with Hukam, Gods Power, God's Divine Law or with God's Perfect Will. Rather, I see it as saying: In the Perfect Will of God, the Rewards for the choices of man are predetermined. Not men choosing. Man must have the ability to choose or he could not even choose to be under the Hukam of God's will!!!!! This does not, AT ALL, affect God's Omnipotence. For when it says above, '... you have come.. ' we came because we ARE CREATED by Sat Guru and His Word which expresses His Will. And when it says ' ... now you perform your actions to determine your future ... ' it means , to me, that we freely choose to act think, speak and act, but ONLY because God has given us the Free Will to do this. Thus when we choose we either choose what carries, for us, predetermined rewards that are good, or predetermined rewards that are bad. Thus God remains omnipotent and man remains free to choose. However, those destined for Liberation (which is the main reward among the good rewards above) are the ones who REALIZE through the ENLIGHTENER, which is the SGGS (the Naam, the Gurbani, etc) that in order to be liberated one must put one's free will, (Along with the rest of ones's being) under the Hukam of God's Perfect Will. That is why it is the rewards for our choices (I.E. Salvation, Nirvana or reincarnation and suffering) that are predetermined and not one's choices. That at least is my considered opinion. Now if the SGGS says different in the original Gurmukhi, I humbly stand corrected Blessings Curious [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Translators And Free Will
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top