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Translation: "Servant Nanak has realized God; he sings the Lord's Praises through the actions he doe

Discussion in 'Intellectual Translations by SPNers' started by Ishna, Dec 11, 2012.

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  1. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Gurfateh

    This shabad is at the very beginning of ang 82. This is Dr Sant Singh Khalsa's translation:

    ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਭਾਈਆ ਹਰਿ ਕਿਨੈ ਪਾਇਆ ਨਾਉ
    Sanṯ janā viṇ bẖā▫ī▫ā har kinai na pā▫i▫ā nā▫o.
    Without the humble Saints, O Siblings of Destiny, no one has obtained the Lord's Name.


    ਵਿਚਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਵਦੇ ਜਿਉ ਵੇਸੁਆ ਪੁਤੁ ਨਿਨਾਉ
    vicẖ ha▫umai karam kamāvḏe ji▫o vesu▫ā puṯ ninā▫o.
    Those who do their deeds in ego are like the prostitute's son, who has no name.


    ਪਿਤਾ ਜਾਤਿ ਤਾ ਹੋਈਐ ਗੁਰੁ ਤੁਠਾ ਕਰੇ ਪਸਾਉ
    Piṯā jāṯ ṯā ho▫ī▫ai gur ṯuṯẖā kare pasā▫o.
    The father's status is obtained only if the Guru is pleased and bestows His Favor.


    ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਲਗਾ ਭਾਉ
    vadbẖāgī gur pā▫i▫ā har ahinis lagā bẖā▫o.
    By great good fortune, the Guru is found; embrace love for the Lord, day and night.


    ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਛਾਣਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਉ ॥੨॥

    Jan Nānak barahm pacẖẖāṇi▫ā har kīraṯ karam kamā▫o. ||2||
    Servant Nanak has realized God; he sings the Lord's Praises through the actions he does. ||2||

    The last tuk "Servant Nanak has realized God; he sings the Lord's Praises through the actions he does. ||2||" is translated by Bhai Manmohan Singh as:

    Slave Nanak has realised the pervading Lord and he does the deed of singing God's praises.
    Members may be able to assist, please:
    1. Which words in the original convey 'singing'?
    2. Which translation do you feel is closer to the real meaning of the tuk: Dr ji's or Bhai ji's?
    3. How would you translate the tuk?
    Many thanks.
     
    #1 Ishna, Dec 11, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
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  3. spnadmin

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    Ishna ji

    That is interesting. In a way the same point is being made by both translators. Important difference.

    The first emphasizes the deeds we do; the other one however emphasizes the deed of singing itself.

    The second sends the message that the simran is sewa of good deeds. You know Kanwaljit ji makes this point often in the forum and it would be interesting to here his take on things.

    So much, however, depends on the scansion of poetic verse, making a straight grammatical take may not always be appropriate. I myself am not that good at it. And I cannot go to ask :happykudi: Professor Sahib ji because I have to get ready for work. Meanwhile, some kind forum member may be able to do that.
     
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  4. BhagatSingh

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    What does this mean?
     
  5. spnadmin

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    admin notes:

    When a translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji takes us to the more vedic interpretation of the message of the Nanak's, it should be posted in the section of the forum, Sanatan Sikhism. This makes it clear to readers far and wide that a sectarian view of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is being read in a specific historical context.

    Also, when one is quoting sections of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that make overt mention to the Hindu cosmology and gods one needs to explore the historical events that shed light on how to translate that shabad or tuk. Often it seems Guru Nanak is buddying up with one or more Hindu deities, when the historical contexts tell a quite different story.

    Thread is closed for a few hours to pause and reflect. Will reopen later in the day. Thank you.
    Thread is now open
     
    #4 spnadmin, Dec 12, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    DEEDS and "Singing"...have to work in TANDEM...

    In fact Gurbani is entirely written in RAAG..hence its MEANT to be SUNG...and the NITNEM Bani SOHILA is actually SUNG in daily use (KIRTAN SOHILA is its popular name !! )..and Rehrass SODAR is still SUNG in Darbar Sahib !! Kirtan Chaunkis of FOUR HOURS specific to Raag and Time is Traditional method

    And Guru Nanak ji MUST have SUNG...(breaking out into song as we call it..) every time he laid his Hands on the Plough..patted his bullocks backs..or sat down to milk His cows.....Mardinayah Chhak Rebaba...BANNEE AYEE..is favourite line quoted about His daily life...Guru Ji would ask Mardana Ji to Pluck the strings of his Rebab...and Guru nanak ji would break out into GURBANI...SINGING !!! ( and I very much doubt they did this "act" sitting under a tree cross legged..( as the Yoga Chautha padd beleivers would love for us to beleive )..because Guru nanak ji also RECORDED the Gurbani in His own handwriting in a Book he carried with him always...and Guru Ji worked for a LIVING - Honest Hard Work being a Fundamental pillar of Gurmatt.
     
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  7. BhagatSingh

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    There is no mention of singing in that shabad. It's about earning karma by Kirat/ਕੀਰਤਿ praising.

    That's what I tried to point out in my translation before it was taken down. I transliterated ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ and ਹਰਿ to Brahm and Hari. -_-
     
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  8. Luckysingh

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    Just to add,the verb or doing word is 'kamao'or ਕਮਾਉ.
    This means to 'earn' if i'm correct.
    Both translations are equally sufficient, but I would personally go with more of the 2nd one-
    "Servant Nanak has realized God; he sings the Lord's Praises through the actions he does. ||2||" is translated by Bhai Manmohan Singh.

    Personally, I find it applicable to see these 'actiions' as good earnings or the 'kamai'.

    Allthe good we do,whether it is praise,seva,naam jap,wand shak, caring,sharing...etc.. is all ''kamai''. It is ALL earned through our actions.
    Kirat is the honest earning itself through honest labour and work.

    The ONLY 'kamai' that actually matters is this kamai as it doesn't show on our maya 'bank' statements, unlike the dollars or pounds we earn through livelihood.
    The only worthy and more permanent kamai is infact this one and not our bank accounts.
     
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  9. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Kamao...also means..."PRACTICE"....

    In everyday lingo..a strong bodybuilder type with shining rippling muscles would be mentioned as " is deean KAMAIIAN keeteahn"....which means he has been at the GYM (practising/exercising"....and the results are obvious...

    A mother may well question her worthless drug addict son...."Kee KAMAII" karkeh liayaan...even IF hes returning back form SCHOOL !!.....meaning is clear also.

    Gurmatt is PRACTICAL...Kirt...Honest Hard labour..Kamaii (practise of Gurmatt principles..Creators attributes..SACH DEE KAMAII wild be earnings of TRUTHFUL LIVING..waand chhaknna naam jappnna remembering HIM thanking HIM..are all important.
     
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  10. Ishna

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    Thanks for the replies.

    If the word 'singing' doesn't appear in the shabad, any ideas why it's been inserted into both translations?

    What does the word 'pacẖẖāṇi▫ā' mean, please?


    To me there is a big difference between the two translations:
    One is saying the performance of good deeds is how you 'sing praises'.
    The other one talks about literal singing.


    Which is odd if the word 'singing' or something similar doesn't even appear in the original.


    Thanks
     
    #9 Ishna, Dec 16, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  11. spnadmin

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    ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਛਾਣਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਉ ॥੨॥

    Jan = Slave, devotee

    Nānak = Nanak

    barahm = all pervading Lord/ Brahm

    pacẖẖāṇi▫ā = praising/singing praise

    har = Lord of the Universe/Hari

    kīraṯ = realizes/in context realizes one's inner self

    karam = good deed/ in context virtuous life or virtuous actions ਕਰਮ The word is karam not karma

    kamā▫o. = earns, gains, works toward

    Because the tuk is a line of poetry and even in English the grammar of poetry can be ambiguous, the translator has to decide what English phrase structure best fits the underlying meaning. So not only can there be 2 different renderings of the tuk but here is yet another 3rd rendering.

    The servant-devotee thus realizes God; praising Divine virtues becomes his/ her pursuit in life. 2. (from Rawel Singh at http://www.sadhsangat.com)

    I can give a 4th translation, but my tikka is downstairs and I am in the bedroom. Hope I remember tomorrow. That one is worth it because the translator uses voluminous footnotes. lol
     
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    #10 spnadmin, Dec 16, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  12. Ishna

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    Thanks adminji for the word-for-word translation. It helps a lot. peacesignkaur
     
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  13. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Spnadmin Ji..You are RIGHT...Kirt kamao can be Pursuit in Life..Lifes Mission..ambition to achieve...Thanks Jios.
     
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