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Controversial Told DAD that meat is NOT forbidden, and he gets ANGRY!

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Singh12, Jun 13, 2012.

  1. Singh12

    Singh12
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    First of all im a 25 year old MONA that eats meat, and my dad has been case dhari AMRIT vegetarian for 20 years, who KEEPS TELLING ME TO STOP MEAT.

    So yeah I told my father about the FOOLS WHO WRANGLE OVER FLESH ARTICLE (http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html) which basicly Proves that Meat is neither forbidden or recomended, and the same for Veg foods.

    And my father got angry... and was hardly letting me finish sentences. Saying meat is wrong bla bla bla! It was like he was so fanatical about his current beleif, that I said to him i think you are getting angry (and also a victim of KROHD/rage) because you have thought your beleifs to be RIGHT for SO LONG (20 years) that if you find out otherwise now, your AHANKAAR does not want to risk any chance of believing it to be true.

    He went further with scare mongering tactics like "You will see when you die and you are reincarnated as a animal etc".

    Even when im telling him the quote from Nanak:
    "The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.
    What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?
    It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.
    Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.
    They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.
    O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.
    They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.
    They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat."


    And he keeps trying to change the meaning of the quote to fit his agenda (convert me to vegetarism. Where as im saying that neither DIET is recommended in the GGSJ)

    --
    Also I WILL stop meat WHEN I WANT TO, and NOT because my DAD keeps telling me to, because of his silly history.

    - For example when he was 24 years old (NON AMRIT) He slapped my mother for eating meat (BTW THEY BOTH ATE MEAT BEFORE THEY GOT MARRIED, BUT AFTER MY DAD TURNED RELIGOUS, AND THEN TRIED FORCING IT UPON MY MUM)
    - He also started hitting my mum because she let her MUSLIM (non religious) friend in the house

    BUT the GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI promotes PEACE and LOVE to ALL the HUMAN RACE, not ignorent predujices like this (when the muslim friend wasnt even {censored word, do not repeat.}in religious)

    ALSO GGSJ says:
    "Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false."

    So how can you treat a muslim with disrespect (falseness) when the MUSLIM is made from following the KORAN.
    DAMN I HATE HYPOCREATES or HALF EDUCATED PEOPLE on SIKHI SHOVING THEIR BELIVES DOWN MY THROAT
     
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    #1 Singh12, Jun 13, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2012
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  3. Navdeep88

    Navdeep88 Canada
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    1) This is a Blog Entry, not a Topic of Discussion.
    2) No one is Perfect, You're a Grown man. Get over the Fact that Not everyone is Going to Aggree w/ you, that's Life. Rofl, He's Your Father, He's always going to be telling you SOMETHING, Trust Me, that's What Parents Do, & that's What they're Supposed to do!
    3)Why are you Holding your Father to such a High Standard? He's a Human Being, Just like you. If you were Provided w/ a Safe, Loving Household to Grow up in, if you were Provided w/ a decent education, & Food, that's ALL your Father Had to do for you. That's It, that's where his Loyalty Towards you as a Child Ends b/c You are Now a Grown Man, & He Owes you Nothing.

    *On An Interesting Note: You're Profile Lists you as 22, & you say you're 25. Why Are you LYING?? Isn't THAT DISHONESTY??
     
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  4. Singh12

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    1) :/
    2) I was calm about the whole thing, he was the one who kept cutting of my sentences and started getting angry. Something or not, hes told me to stop eating meat so many times, he needs to understand that i wont stop meat.. by him imposing his Will onto me.
    3) Yes you are right. But Its just me pointing out what he was like at ~25 years old (women beater!), but the only things hes got to say to me is stop eating meat.. its such a broken record

    4) Its a forum, I dont ever put the time and effort in to get the birth date right on a forum, so couldnt care less about that.
    So please get over it LOL motherlylove

    Thanks for your input though, and which forum catogary do you recommend i post this, could a mod move it to a more suitable catagoary? thanks
     
  5. Navdeep88

    Navdeep88 Canada
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    I suggest you Remove it b/c you Sound like a Brat, If @ 22/25 etc, you're Sitting @ HIS Table, Eating HIS Food, You Need to Get Over it Mah Brotha.
     
  6. Singh12

    Singh12
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    Maybe.

    But I never bring meat home, I always eat it at takeaway.

    And he also imposed his beliefs on my granddad, and after a while my granddad took amrit and stopped eating meat, but then relapsed and broke it and started drinking alcohol again etc, which I believe is because he felt forced to do amrit in the first place and did not make the decision from within, but merely from the outside.

    what I'm saying is that I won't give up something if it's against my will, otherwise its pointless and goes no where because you are making a decision for an external person.

    and my dad's basically told me I better start changing if I wanna live in his house... but because it's against what I want

    maybe its best if I move out soon

    I could just never tell my dad that i eat meat , but that's not me, I'm a man of truth
     
  7. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    Don't worry about it, just because he doesn't want to listen to your point of view.
    Remember, there is no law or rule that is correct and standard for the meat issue.
    It always comes down to personal belief- this is what you must remember, to tell someone that their life long belief is wrong is not a sikh approach, to make them understand is another matter. Guru Nanak never went around telling people their ritualistic beliefs were wrong did he ? NO, he showed them the way to wake them up and realise the understanding.

    DO NOT KEEP INSULTING YOUR FATHER'S INTELLIGENCE by sputting forward your beliefs. You OR me are in no position to say who's right and who's wrong.

    I mean at 22/25 years old I kept trying to convince and tell my dad that I was a virgin.
    He just wouldn't believe me and kept telling me that I was lying!!!
    What could have I done to prove it ? Should I have bought my girlfriend home and asked him to verify and ask her???
    In the end, did it matter if I really was or not ?? NO- It really didn't matter to him!!!
    Just like you eat meat outside the house- fine, carry on, but don't insult him by trying to convince him that it is OK to have in his house.

    Take it easy and show your love for family and mankind- and enjoy your quarter
    pounder outside.
     
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    #6 Luckysingh, Jun 13, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2012
  8. Navdeep88

    Navdeep88 Canada
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    Oh, Boo-Hoo, Your Dad Inspired your Grandad to Stop Drinking. What a Crime!! Cry a River, Build a Bridge & Get over it. There are Worse things in Life, People have been Physically Raped, Abused etc. They've gone Hungry, w/out Shelter, & Worse.

     
    #7 Navdeep88, Jun 13, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2012
  9. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    I think you should play him at his own game, learn as much as you can about Sikhi and try and bond using a love of something you both have an interest in, I don't think either of you sound particularly perfect lol, but if you could both have an open mind, you may learn something

    peacesignkaur
     
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  10. Singh12

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    Yeeh true.

    And as for navdeep, you just sound like a very angry person

    I hope you did not have a predujice against me as soon as you seen that I was a MONA & Meat eater
     
  11. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    This is probably the reason why I totally turned my back on vegetarians and vegetarianism. These people seem to care more about the "feelings" of animals (if indeed they have feelings), than the feeling s of human beings!!!

    This sort of vege-fascism and fascism in general, is the route cause as to why the younger generation turn away from Sikh temples.

    Your father IS wholly wrong on this issue and the pupose of Sikhism. I mean what sort of SIKH beats a woman? That is just cowardice.

    ...there is no reasoning with these sorts of people (even if he is your own father). Just get on with your own life.

    -Stay away from cigarettes.
    -stay away from narcotics and alcohol.
    -stay fit and healthy
    -if you want to eat meat, eat it. If you don't then don't. Do not get attached to any type of food.


    When you have your own house, do what you please. ....and above all:

    <TABLE style="mso-cellspacing: 3.7pt" class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 0; mso-yfti-firstrow: yes"><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt">Page 473

    </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 1"><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt">Sabẖ ko ākẖai āpṇā jis nāhī so cẖuṇ kadẖī▫ai.
    All call You their own, Lord; one who does not own You, is picked up and thrown away.

    </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 2"><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt">Kīṯā āpo āpṇā āpe hī lekẖā sandẖī▫ai.
    Everyone receives the rewards of his own actions; his account is adjusted accordingly.

    </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 3"><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt">Jā rahṇā nāhī aiṯ jag ṯā kā▫iṯ gārab handẖī▫ai.
    Since one is not destined to remain in this world anyway, why should he ruin himself in pride?

    </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 4"><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt">Manḏā kisai na ākẖī▫ai paṛ akẖar eho bujẖī▫ai.
    Do not call anyone bad; read these words, and understand.

    </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 5; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes"><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; BACKGROUND: #babac7; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt">Mūrkẖai nāl na lujẖī▫ai. ||19||
    Don't argue with fools. ||19||

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    Saying this, there is more to Sikhi then what you eat. Ask yourself:

    1) is it organic?
    2) is it responsible grown/reaared
    3) What effect does it have on the environment.

    Best Wishes
     
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    #10 Randip Singh, Jun 13, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2012
  12. Singh12

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    Thank you Randip for some Real Input on the matter.

    Exactly, so my feelings are, that he was such an immoral hypocrite when he was my Age, and now hes jus choking on the fact that i eat meat.

    - Yep I dont smoke.
    - I dont drink much (maybe once in 3 months, and always remain in a state where i have control, and I have never gone to the extent that i throw up)
    - I try to stay fit

    Ive also told Him about how theres 6 CHASKA (addictions) written before MEAT (is last).

    And especially addiction to SWEET things is a CHASKA BEFORE MEAT.
    Ive Told him that SUGAR is worse than MEAT! e.g you NEVER see kids with BAD teeth CAUSE of eating too much meat, But you DO see kids with BAD teeth because of eating to much sweets as a kid (Malnutrition, sugar replaces vitamins, not good)

    So SUGAR DAMAGES the body (+ diabetes), so you could say its closer to the effects of alcohol (body damage?)

    At one point in the debate between my Dad, he said that Refined White Sugar is good for you!?
    Lol *** the things he comes up with sometimes, seems like he makes them up on the spot, just to go against me, and not accept that im right (cos im the 'kid' i guess lol)

    Thank you for this

    Also theres so much issues ive talked about with my dad who drinks milk EVERY day:

    CRUILTY TO COWS while ALIVE: e.g how cows are locked up and treated for milk, how HORMONES are INJECTED into cows to INCREASE milk production. And They are PURPOSELY kept pregnant so that they continue producing milk to SELL for MONEY for HUMANS, when really the milk is intended by WAHEGURU (imo) to be for CALFS.

    And in these UNATURAL FORCEFUL conditions the Cows udders Get SORE and blister and blead both Externally AND Internally, and this BLOOD & PUSS ends up in the milk. But wait theres More, sometimes the UDDERS get INFECTED, so then these milk factories Slap some OINTMENTS on and INJECT ANTIBIOTICS to deal with the infections, which ULTIMATELY end up IN THE MILK, which people consume. But yet so many sikhs cant get enough of MILK and PANEER. Look at this cruel ness for milk.

    Also Regarding animals: what about all these Leather shoes (and furnature) that some sikhs wear, made by skin ripped from animals, and what about the SKIN on the TABLA in my Dads room??

    ALSO The GGSJ says to NOT HARM the body.

    But yet my family cant seem to get enough of WHEAT which is Gluten based, hard to digest. And is filled with PHYTO TOXINS and ANTI BODIES from the WHEAT, which can Damage our bodies. But also if the plant is producing antibodies, maybe it Does not want to be eaten? Not to mention WHEAT is So devoid of nutrients IMO.

    P.S - Dont forget the Blood, Puss, Steroids and Antibiotics in MILK. Which damage the body.
    Oh and I forgot that SO MANY people dont really digest LACTOSE (in milk) properly, so it can negatively affect digestion. Also MILK TAKES CALCIUM AWAY FROM BONES, The MYTH that milk gives you strong bones and stuff, is exactly that; a MYTH, FUNDED by the MILK FACTORIES to PUT ON TV so they can SELL MORE MILK and make MORE MONEY.

    Theres so much stuff to consider. All i can say is that knowledge is power
     
    #11 Singh12, Jun 13, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2012
  13. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Randipji

    I am happy to confirm that animals have feelings, they feel love, anger, hate, shame, lust etc

    The difference is that animals feel according to circumstances and situations, and are generally in consonance with their environment when they feel, unlike human beings, lol
     
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  14. linzer

    linzer Mexico
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    Just as a question. How wide spread is the belief that vegetarianism is obligatory in sikhi. I know in the offfical rehat it's not but for example in the rehat of 3ho it is.
    And also I've heard that in someplaces to take Amrit you must be vegetarian and speak punjabi. Both of these seem strange given what I know. As I understand this hasn't always been a problem. When did this become a controversy?
     
  15. linzer

    linzer Mexico
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    Thanks, but I was talking about Sikhi.
     
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  16. Archived_Member16

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    source: http://www.sikhs.org/meat.htm


    Misconceptions About Eating Meat
    by Sandeep Singh Brar


    The view of Sikhism is that eating meat or abstaining from it is the individuals choice. A Sikh is considered no lesser or greater a Sikh if they eat meat or are a vegetarian.


    Final Ruling from Akal Takht

    The Akal Takht represents the final authority on controversial issues concerning the Sikh Panth, in this regard the issue of meat eating has been settled. Hukamnama issued by Akal Takht Jathedar Sandhu Singh Bhaura dated February 15th 1980 that Amritdhari Sikhs can eat meat as long as it is jhatka meat and that eating meat does not go against the code of conduct, Kurehit, of the Sikhs. Thus a Sikh cannot be excommunicated for eating meat.


    The Sikh Reht Maryada (The Official Code of Conduct) An Amritdhari Khalsa Sikh is not allowed to eat the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way.

    In Punjabi the word "Kuttha" specifically means meat prepared according to the Muslim ritual slaughter.

    Punjabi-English Dictionary, Punjabi University, Dept. of Punjabi Lexicography, Published Dec. 1994. "Kuttha: meat of animal or fowl slaughtered slowly as prescribed by Islamic law."

    Punjabi English Dictionary, Singh Bros., Amritsar "Kuttha: Tortured, killed according to Mohammedan law."

    What is Jhatka Meat and Why? Jhatka meat is meat in which the animal has been killed quickly without suffering or religious ritual.


    Sikhism, A Complete Introduction, Dr. H.S.Singha & Satwant Kaur, Hemkunt Press

    We must give the rationale behind prescribing jhatka meat as the approved food for the Sikhs. According to the ancient Aryan Hindu tradition, only such meat as is obtained from an animal which is killed with one stroke of the weapon causing instantaneous death is fit for human consumption. However, with the coming of Islam into India and the Muslim political hegemony, it became a state policy not to permit slaughter of animals for food, in any other manner, except as laid down in the Quran - the kosher meat prepared by slowly severing the main blood artery of the throat of the animal while reciting verses from the Quran. It is done to make slaughter a sacrifice to God and to expiate the sins of the slaughter. Guru Gobind Singh took a rather serious view of this aspect of the whole matter. He, therefore, while permitting flesh to be taken as food repudiated the whole theory of this expiatory sacrifice and the right of ruling Muslims to impose iton the non-Muslims. Accordingly, he made jhatka meat obligatory for those Sikhs who may be interested in taking meat as a part of their food.

    Sikhs and Sikhism, Dr. I.J.Singh, Manohar Publishers.
    And one semitic practice clearly rejected in the Sikh code of conduct is eating flesh of an animal cooked in ritualistic manner; this would mean kosher and halal meat. The reason again does not lie in religious tenet but in the view that killing an animal with a prayer is not going to enoble the flesh. No ritual, whoever conducts it, is going to do any good either to the animal or to the diner. Let man do what he must to assuage his hunger. If what he gets, he puts to good use and shares with the needy, then it is well used and well spent, otherwise not.

    Why is Meat not served in Langar?
    The reason why meat is not served at langar in the Gurdwaras is because langar is supposed to be a symbol of equality of mankind where all people no matter what race, religion or caste can eat toghether in the atmosphere of brotherhood. Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, it does not matter who they are. Different religions have different dietary restrictions. Hindus cannot eat cow, muslims cannot eat pork and will only eat halal meat. Jews will only eat kosher meat, others cannot eat fish or eggs. But in a gurdwara langar, it does not matter what their dietary taboos or religious beliefs are, the food is designed so that all can eat together and no one will be offended or not be able to partake of the meal.
     
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  17. linzer

    linzer Mexico
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    Thanks. This is good useful information. But as you can see from some of the above comments that after more than thirty years there is still disagreement. Is this a sectarian thing? brahminization? (I'm not sure that's word but you know what I mean). Just curious is all.
     
  18. Navdeep88

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    Uh, I Cut my Hair, But Im a Proud Vegetarian, But My Responses to your Inquiries were based on the fact that it seemed like a Lame Issue & Situation. The way you're Blaming your Dad, about he's so this & that. Shut Up, Live Life, & then Give your Dad a Hug about how Awesome he was about everything but this One Miniscual Issue.
     
  19. Luckysingh

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    Come on Navdeep ji, this guy is more or less a similar age to you.
    It's not nice to talk to him like he's a kid, he hears enough of that from his father.

    It may seem like a real big issue to him, at that age I myself would be very concerned with 'miniscule' events!!!

    Remember that it is a well known fact that females mature and get wiser much earlier before us males. With both of you being similar ages, you seem to sense his inmaturity!!!
    Boys stay boys for much longer before they become responsible men. At that age I thought I knew it all but in fact I knew nothing and was completely lost!!!!
     
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  20. Archived_member14

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    Harry ji,

    Some questions, but first a clarification which may be helpful.


    These are not feelings but mental formations. Feelings are pleasant, unpleasant or neutral arisen either at the mind or at the sense doors. So we have for example, love or attachment being associated with either pleasant or neutral but never unpleasant ‘mental’ feeling. And hate always with unpleasant mental feeling. Tactile consciousness is accompanied by either pleasant or unpleasant feeling, but never neutral, all being however, ‘bodily’.


    Is this consonance you are referring to, the same kind you seek to also attain? If so, how do you reconcile this with the fact that humans are said to be superior to animals? In other words, if animals so easily achieve the consonance which is the aim all humans should have, does this not then mean that in fact human beings are inferior to animals? If this is not what you are saying, then please explain what it is that you mean by “consonance” in each of the two cases, namely one, which animals achieve naturally and the other, which human being achieve only as a result of correctly following the teachings of such persons as Guru Nanak?
     
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  21. Randip Singh

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    Errr NO!!!

    Meat is not forbidden in Sikhism. Shakta-ism doesn not forbid meat either infact it encourages animal sacrifice. Buddism does not ban meat either. In fact the Lord Buddha died eating rancid pork.

    So please do not confuse you Vaishnav beliefs with all other faiths. :angryyoungsingh:
     
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