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General Thirst for God (BoSKD 4)

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by BhagatSingh, Oct 10, 2012.

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  1. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Bani of Sant Kabir Das, Shabad #4, starts at the end of page 323.

    A bhagat's relationship with God was that of two lovers, who had been separated for a very long time but always wanted to get back together. During their separation, their beloved's name is constantly on their tongue and on their mind.

    Listen to this shabad, a rendition by Bhai Harjinder Singh: http://www.sikhroots.com/component/...-kab-gal-lawenge/8035-madho-jal-ki-piaas.html

    ਗਉੜੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ
    Raag Gaurhi Kabir ji

    ਮਾਧਉ ਜਲ ਕੀ ਪਿਆਸ ਨ ਜਾਇ
    O Husband of Lakshmi, my thirst for your name does not go away.

    Background: ਮਾਧਉ - See post http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-granth-darpan/39118-bani-of-sant-kabir-das-1-a-2.html#post171263

    ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਅਗਨਿ ਉਠੀ ਅਧਿਕਾਇ ਰਹਾਉ
    In Your water, my thirst grows more intense. Think about this.

    ਤੂੰ ਜਲਨਿਧਿ ਹਉ ਜਲ ਕਾ ਮੀਨੁ
    You are the Ocean and I am the fish.

    ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਉ ਜਲਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਖੀਨੁ
    I live in Your water, without it I would suffer. 1.

    ਤੂੰ ਪਿੰਜਰੁ ਹਉ ਸੂਅਟਾ ਤੋਰ
    You are the parrot-cage whom I am belong to.

    ਜਮੁ ਮੰਜਾਰੁ ਕਹਾ ਕਰੈ ਮੋਰ
    What harm can the cat (death) do to me? 2.

    Yama is the king of dead. He is likened to a cat chasing after the mortal likened to a parrot.

    ਤੂੰ ਤਰਵਰੁ ਹਉ ਪੰਖੀ ਆਹਿ
    You are the tree and I am the bird who nests there.

    ਮੰਦਭਾਗੀ ਤੇਰੋ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਨਾਹਿ
    How unfortunate, even then I do not recognize You as the tree. 3.

    ਤੂੰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਹਉ ਨਉਤਨੁ ਚੇਲਾ
    You are the True Guru and I am your new disciple.

    ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਮਿਲੁ ਅੰਤ ਕੀ ਬੇਲਾ
    Says Kabir, please meet me now, before it all ends.

    After going through several forms the Atma takes on the human form. It is in this form that we have a chance to meet God. Kabir says meet me before the cycle ends, which is the end of the human form. He says don't make me wait till my next human form; don't make me wait that long, meet me now.

    Summary
    Sant Kabir expresses his thirst for water, his desire for meditation on Ram. He sees it as his habitat, his life, his protection and his shelter. He yearns to unite with Ram with a sense of urgency only he knew.


    Questions

    1. How did Sant Kabir come to this, where he feels such an intense thirst?
    2. Do you get a sense of Kabir's feelings after listening to the shabad?
    3. Most people have a desire for material things. How can a desire be for something that is not material?
    4. How can one develop a desire for something that is not material?


    God the Water (BoSKD 3)
    Bani of Sant Kabir Das 2
    Bani of Sant Kabir Das 1
     
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    #1 BhagatSingh, Oct 10, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2012
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  3. chazSingh

    chazSingh United Kingdom
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    Interesting questions Bhagat Ji,

    It's a shame many of the sangat are not drawn to such discussion and are busy discussing things that in the big scheme of things do not matter at all :(

    I'll try and answer your questions from my own personal experience

    How did Sant Kabir come to this, where he feels such an intense thirst?
    for me the thirst was always there...but my effrort didnt match...i always read gurbani, tried to understand, got confised with certain terms, got misguided by others that didnt know themselves. Found some enlightening books by sants and brahmgianis...slowly things started to make some sense...that i will have to make the effort and experience for myself. still the excuses manifested in my mind.

    I wanted a good job, was thinking about marriage, many material things. most of my time was spent on this...thinking they will make me 'truely' happy. Eventualy i realised that they wouldnt...something was always missing inside...there was a yearning for god...a love i couldnt really understand where it was coming from.

    Do you get a sense of Kabir's feelings after listening to the shabad?
    Yes, i am so motivated to doing my 2.5 hours of amrit vela simran...no matter how tired i am...i will wake up..it's my time with god. I don't know how long my life will be...so i pray i will get to my destination in this life.

    Most people have a desire for material things. How can a desire be for something that is not material?
    When one makes the effort for Simran and starts to experience gurbani in their physical being, then the thirst just grows and one starts to realise that material things can not provide the same level of peace and bliss that one starts to experience during their Simran. It ignites the explorer in a person...to delve deeper and deeper into the truth.

    How can one develop a desire for something that is not material?
    When one starts to realise that material things and things done for self, will always crumble and rot, whereas when one does something good for someone else, the love ripples through the other person and beyond...bringing a smile to them that spreads throughout the day. It's immeasurable...what is this love that seems indistructable...lets explore :)
     
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  4. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Ya well that's too bad. It's both ways though It's not just them but us as well. We are not drawn towards other things. We wouldn't know what we are not drawn towards.

    Yeah same, I mean Guru Granth Sahib is pretty difficult to understand. Only when I started meditating from Buddhist influence did I actually understand Guru Granth Sahib. But when I did, I got it in a blink.

    The feeling of something missing is like a bottomless cup. The insight I had a few weeks ago was that we are this bottomless cup and to be at peace with a bottomless, empty cup was the only way to really enjoy the attempts to fill it up.

    I think there is a tremendous force within us that wants to lead us to peace but we have put so many obstacles in its way. What meditation allowed me to do was to see those obstacles and work to drop them. The little things can be dropped with just a breath.

    Have you seen Kung Fu Panda 2? It's a hilarious film. Basically they described three ways of finding inner peace. One was to meditate in solitude for a long time. The other was through suffering. And the last was to realize who you are. The main character goes through an elaborate journey of the last kind.

    I think there is another way and that is to lose your self in the love of something else. This actually happens often but with things that are temporary. The trick is to make this happen for something that is not. And I think this is the way described in Guru Granth Sahib. jin prem kiyo tin he prabh payo Only those who love Prabhu obtained Him.

    2.5 hours? How's that like? When I do it, i only do it for like an hour. The first half hour and the last fifteen minutes are pretty cluttered, in the middle there is a lot of clarity.

    Good answers. Nothing I can add. It is a process of waking up the bottomless cup.
     
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  5. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh United States
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    Good posts.

    I think it takes a while to get a grasp of these ideas and to start some physical action on them whilst one explores deeper into self.
    It makes you accept everything as we peceive it but at the same time to understand what actually matters and what doesn't.

    The simple realisation of what is nirgun and sargun and even if they are dualities, it is their manifestation that needs to be understood.
    Yet, you can make the dividing line between them both as thick and rigid as you want, but you can almost bring them so close so that the dividing line is barely visible.

    Kabir's urge and intense thirst for the creator is mentioned throughout the bani and in this shabad.
    Rather than just being love and a wanting for the lord, he expresses it here as a ''must needed thirst quencher''. -where he desperately needs the Lord water ocean for continued survival.

    It is expressed as a need more than just wanting, and this is where the importance is in his expressions.

    Elsewhere, Kabirji mentions the need for the bride, to be with her loving Lord husband.
    Again, the difference is that the bride is not just looking for a soul mate or loving husband, but it is about re-uniting back together after being seperated.
    In that manner, Kabir ji's urge and desire for Lord God is about re-emerging or re-awakening the love between them that is more intense and deeper when they are together.
    Hence, the desperation and need expressed in the shabads.

    Like Bhagat ji says above about the empty cup, this is how Kabirji he feels. But when it is filled and there is no empty space, then the whole world seems fullfilled and nothing around us can seem empty.
     
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  6. chazSingh

    chazSingh United Kingdom
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  7. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Kabir ji in a different shabad tells us to withdraw form the senses and be conscious of our consciousness. Knowing consciousness would not be possible if it weren't for the senses.
    This consciousness that illuminates the universe around us, does it through our senses. This lamp of God we walk around with, when we look at it, is God experiencing Himself. The fact that there is something to be illuminated is what makes the light. If there is nothing to be illuminated, could one speak of light?

    That is the duality that we are to live with. Without this duality there would be no world.

    To see permanent and temporary as One, would be an extraordinary feat! The One light that is split by the prism of the mind.

    That sounds pretty extreme. I can get intense quiet with bursts of insight but nothing like that! I have never lost track of time during meditation. It is something I do want to experience.

    There's been research on this meditation actually makes one physically healthier. It improves respiration, reduces stress, and with reduction in stress we can reduce the risk of cardiovascular diseases and other diseases, as reduced stress strengthens the immune system.
     
  8. chazSingh

    chazSingh United Kingdom
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    It can get pretty extreme...i try not to mention too much about experiences as each of us may have different experiences and expectation for a particular experience causes problems.

    I mentioned my meditation and meditation technique to my older brother and without me knowing he started doing it also (whilst lying in bed before sleep) and he came back to me mentioning similar experiences to what i had when i started off.

    Not sure what method you use but for me, sitting comfortably on a couch.... repeating "satnaam" or "waheguru" silently in my mind, and concentrating my focus/attention/surat (with eyes closed) in between the eyebrows (third eye region)...thats how i started off, and it;s been working great for me since.

    Once we get better at putting out attention to the third eye region whilst using the mantra to keep our mind occupied, its then (for me anyway) that the inner light and sound (shabad) started becoming a reality...gurbani just starts to take a whole new level and meaning.

    As a sangat all we can continue doing is motivating each other and learn from each other. ... god bless you on your journey


    funny you mention that, since i started doing longer sessions of meditation, my resting heart rate dropped from about 75 beats per minute to about 60 beats per minute...if you look at the charts for resting heart rate thats about an athlete level....theres no way i'm as fit as an athlete :)
     
  9. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Sometimes I jap, focusing on the sound and sometimes I focus on my breath, the rise and fall of my stomach and my sensations in my body. I tend to be in my head, thinking and contemplating all the time, So I try to balance that with bringing attention in to my body. I try to scan it back and forth. Then I withdraw my attention from that to the entity who is paying attention. At least I try to, sometimes with successful results. If I have images pop up, I immediately call out "image" in my mind and let it go. If I notice internal dialogue I say "talk" in my mind and let it go. Then I go back to the above steps.

    My biggest hurdle to meditating is me noticing that I am meditating. Sometimes I'll have an insight and then notice that I am having an insight and then the insight just disappears.

    :grinningsingh:
    Now imagine if you exercised too. How much lower would your resting heart rate be?
     
  10. chazSingh

    chazSingh United Kingdom
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    Sounds similar to what i do...the breath really helps...i sometimes do 'Wahe' breathing in, and 'guru' breathing out...

    The thoughts and images that pop up...they really annoyed me...knocked me off my concentration....no whenevr they appear i just tell my mind to carry on..i'm not interested....eventually it starts to leave you alone :)

    focussing on the third eye region in silence doing the mantra in mind is what really kickstarted it for me. thats when inner light would appear and when sense of body would start to become less...i have my bad days though...where the mind just won't settle (events in the day just keep popping up)

    sounds like you're doing great...it's just like exercising...gets easier the more we practice.
    this sounds kinda familiar...and still happens to me... sometimes the light used to appear in my minds eye, and even though i had my eyes closed, i would try and focus on the light with my actual eyes...would lose concentration straight away.
     

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