Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

The Concept of "Suchham" in Sikhi

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by etinder, May 21, 2006.

  1. etinder

    etinder
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    488
    Likes Received:
    6
    What do you think of the concept of "sucham " in Sikhi, what is its validity? Is it another brahamanic- ritualistic inheritance? And to what extent is "Jooth" and "such" is important to an Amritdhari sikhs life?

    gurufateh
     
  2. Loading...

    Similar Threads Forum Date
    Interfaith Meet At Gaya -Concepts Discussed Interfaith Dialogues Wednesday at 8:04 PM
    Concept Of Langar In Sikhi New to Sikhism Sep 11, 2016
    Concept Of Manmukh/Gurmukh. Is There A Freewill In Sikhism? Questions and Answers Jul 25, 2016
    Sikhism Hukamnama Of Akal Takht Sahib (History And Concept) Sikh Sikhi Sikhism Jun 20, 2016
    Controversial Concept of so-called Jhootah and Sikhism Hard Talk Dec 10, 2015

  3. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2004
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    86
    Gurfateh

    Das can give you a quote from Guru Granht Sahib Ji and that implieis not only to Panda addressed but the whole Human race.

    ਬਸੰਤੁ ਹਿੰਡੋਲੁ ਘਰੁ
    बसंतु हिंडोलु घरु २
    basant hindol ghar 2
    Basant Hindol, Second House:

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
    ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
    ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad.
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

    ਮਾਤਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਪਿਤਾ ਭੀ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੇ ਹੀ ਫਲ ਲਾਗੇ
    माता जूठी पिता भी जूठा जूठे ही फल लागे ॥
    maataa joothee pitaa bhee joothaa joothay hee fal laagay.
    The mother is impure, and the father is impure. The fruit they produce is impure.

    ਆਵਹਿ ਜੂਠੇ ਜਾਹਿ ਭੀ ਜੂਠੇ ਜੂਠੇ ਮਰਹਿ ਅਭਾਗੇ ॥੧॥
    आवहि जूठे जाहि भी जूठे जूठे मरहि अभागे ॥१॥
    aavahi joothay jaahi bhee joothay joothay mareh abhaagay. ||1||
    Impure they come, and impure they go. The unfortunate ones die in impurity. ||1||

    ਕਹੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਸੂਚਾ ਕਵਨੁ ਠਾਉ
    कहु पंडित सूचा कवनु ठाउ ॥
    kaho pandit soochaa kavan thaa-o.
    Tell me, O Pandit, O religious scholar, which place is uncontaminated?

    ਜਹਾਂ ਬੈਸਿ ਹਉ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਖਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    जहां बैसि हउ भोजनु खाउ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    jahaaN bais ha-o bhojan khaa-o. ||1|| rahaa-o.
    Where should I sit to eat my meal? ||1||Pause||

    ਜਿਹਬਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਬੋਲਤ ਜੂਠਾ ਕਰਨ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਸਭਿ ਜੂਠੇ
    जिहबा जूठी बोलत जूठा करन नेत्र सभि जूठे ॥
    jihbaa joothee bolat joothaa karan naytar sabh joothay.
    The tongue is impure, and its speech is impure. The eyes and ears are totally impure.

    ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਕੀ ਜੂਠਿ ਉਤਰਸਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਅਗਨਿ ਕੇ ਲੂਠੇ ॥੨॥
    इंद्री की जूठि उतरसि नाही ब्रहम अगनि के लूठे ॥२॥
    indree kee jooth utras naahee barahm agan kay loothay. ||2||
    The impurity of the sexual organs does not depart; the Brahmin is burnt by the fire. ||2||

    ਅਗਨਿ ਭੀ ਜੂਠੀ ਪਾਨੀ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਬੈਸਿ ਪਕਾਇਆ
    अगनि भी जूठी पानी जूठा जूठी बैसि पकाइआ ॥
    agan bhee joothee paanee joothaa joothee bais pakaa-i-aa.
    The fire is impure, and the water is impure. The place where you sit and cook is impure.

    ਜੂਠੀ ਕਰਛੀ ਪਰੋਸਨ ਲਾਗਾ ਜੂਠੇ ਹੀ ਬੈਠਿ ਖਾਇਆ ॥੩॥
    जूठी करछी परोसन लागा जूठे ही बैठि खाइआ ॥३॥
    joothee karchhee parosan laagaa joothay hee baith khaa-i-aa. ||3||
    Impure is the ladle which serves the food. Impure is the one who sits down to eat it. ||3||

    ਗੋਬਰੁ ਜੂਠਾ ਚਉਕਾ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਦੀਨੀ ਕਾਰਾ
    गोबरु जूठा चउका जूठा जूठी दीनी कारा ॥
    gobar joothaa cha-ukaa joothaa joothee deenee kaaraa.
    Impure is the cow dung, and impure is the kitchen square. Impure are the lines that mark it off.

    ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਤੇਈ ਨਰ ਸੂਚੇ ਸਾਚੀ ਪਰੀ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ॥੪॥੧॥੭॥
    कहि कबीर तेई नर सूचे साची परी बिचारा ॥४॥१॥७॥
    kahi kabeer tay-ee nar soochay saachee paree bichaaraa. ||4||1||7||
    Says Kabeer, they alone are pure, who have obtained pure understanding. ||4||1||7||


    Ang 1195.

    People who may Qoute verse unto St Kabir to support vegitarianism may not agree to this verse.


    anyway for reason of hygene say we must not share food with person who drinks or smoke as he may have germs maginfied in weak body and those strong germs can attack us if we take them via salvia else they do not.

    Das will wait for input from Dr Khalsa or other Dr HPS Ji.
     
    #2 vijaydeep Singh, May 21, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  4. kds1980

    kds1980 India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    2,738
    after reading the above shabad i want to say how could akjs justify
    their bibeki rehat.not eating from the hands of non amritdharis,hair cutters,meat eaters.etc.i have read several discussions on tapoban
    some even say that sikhs should not eat food cooked by machine.
    all this is just pure brahamanism.thats why i beleive that sikhi should be based on guru granth sahib first.
     
  5. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    1,606
    ਨਾਤਾ ਧੋਤਾ ਥਾਇ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥
    ā ḏẖoā thā­ė na pā­ī.
    but in spite of their bathing and washing, they shall not be acceptable.
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     
    #4 Astroboy, Apr 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    EXACTLY mereh veero ate bheno.
    Gurbani is patently clear and simple - composed in aarsh (heavens) but of human necessity written down in Earthly Language (farsh )
    Bathe, brush your teeth, use SOAP ( saboon is mentioned in japji )..etc etc purely for bodily HYGEINE, cleanliness etc....BUT DO NOT CONFUSE body with the MANN - Inner Soul atma ...This can ONLY be cleaned by NAAM - Bhareah matt papaan ke sang ..also in japji.... NO "Earthly" suchams , bibeki rehits, etc etc can make the MANN clean under any circumstances.
    Gurbani so clearly refutes the belief that mere bathing at teeraths, pilgrimage centres, sarovars etc etc can make our Mann CLEAN...NO WAY. IF such bathing did that then ALL FROGS, Turtles, Fish, Crocodiles etc etc would be SAINTS..IF mere abstaining from conjugal relations between man and woman did that.( CELIBACY).then the Gays/khusrehs etc would be SAINTS..IF merely eating grass (vegetarianism ahinsa abstinence from meat/killing animals for food etc) amde SAINTS..then all cows goats etc would be SAINTS..the SGGS is chock full of such advice - AVOID such suchams and cleanliness RITUALS as a means to an END..the one and ONLY sucham fir the Mann is Naam Japp...meaning Nama jappo, KIRT karo and Wand chhako ...I am painfully aware that many many such brahminism's RITUALS of bhittia giya, sucham, bibeki rehit, sootak satak etrc etc have crept BACK into Tatt gurmatt and are invading our Gurdwaras and Guru Ke Langars...keeping many that Guru Ji LOVES..... OUT and dividing US all along such ritualistic lines..there are many many such "super duper Modern brahmins in Sikh disguise raoming among us...how sad. Guru nanak ji sat down with the most commona nd lowest of the low..people like Bhai lalo..and we sit among the Malik Bhagos and keep the Llalos OUT of Gurdwaras as unfit/unlcean/unamritdharee ??? EKS KE BARAK !!!

    Gyani jarnail Singh
     
  7. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    1,606
    I wish every Gyani could summarize a lecture to this extent but they won't because their money basket would remain empty.
     
  8. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    Veer ji,
    Gurfateh.

    SACH SUNAISEE SACH KEE BELA....Even TRUTH has a time/limitation. TRUTH DELAYED is TRUTH DENIED. Guru Ji Kirpa karan..when our Gyanis and Kathakaars/kirtaniyas and et-el begin to say the TRUTH and ONLY the TRUTH..HE will fill the "baskets"...sewa nu mewa..... A SIKH has to be without fear or favour..Never frighten anyone and never be frightened of anyone..in the service of TRUTH...AAD SACH JUGAAD SACH...Nanak hosee bhee SACH. Sadly many today wear the blinkers of MAYA..and serve this Master more than SACH of Guru nanak's HOUSE.
    Warmest regards to all...
    Happy Baisakhi to ALL Nanak Naam Leva Sangats
    Gyani jarnail Singh
     
    #7 Gyani Jarnail Singh, Apr 10, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2008

Share This Page