1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Dear Guest, we truly appreciate your patience while we are working hard on the upgrade process, which was forced upon us due to the decline of our original forum software. Good news is SPN is almost ready to resume its normal operations soon. The new cutting edge software has been chosen with a primary focus on enhancing user experience especially while using SPN on the mobile devices such as tablets or phones. This new platform will also provide us the opportunity to implement new ideas which were not possible in old software. Forum appearance will be an on going process and you would notice significant changes as we mature working in the new software environment. Some of the core functionality like the blogs will be restored gradually. Once, the forum is fully active, please take your time navigating around the new forum functionality. We will also introduce you to new functionality from time to time.

The Brahma Dilemma. Why Don't Indians Give Back to Society?

Discussion in 'People & Opinion' started by harbansj24, Jan 10, 2010.

  1. harbansj24

    harbansj24 Well-Known Member SPNer

    Why Indians don’t give back to society
    by Aakar Patel, Mint, July 4, 2009
    Some characteristics unite Indians.
    The most visible is our opportunism

    Why don’t we worship Brahma? We know he’s part of the Hindu trinity as the creator, but we worship Vishnu, manager of the cosmos, and Shiva, its eventual destroyer. The answer lies not in religion, but in culture. But in what way does our religion shape our culture?

    Weber explained the success of capitalism in the US, Germany and Britain as coming from their populations’ Protestant faith. This ethic, or culture, was missing from the Catholic populations of South America, Italy and Spain. Protestants, Weber said, extended Christianity’s message of doing good deeds, to doing work well. Industry and enterprise had an ultimate motive: public good. That explains the philanthropists of the US, from John D. Rockefeller to Andrew Carnegie to Bill Gates.

    What explains the behaviour of Indians? What explains the anarchy of our cities? To find out, we must ask how our behaviour is different.

    Some characteristics unite Indians. The most visible is our opportunism. One good way to judge a society is to see it in motion. On the road, we observe the opportunism in the behaviour of the Indian driver. Where traffic halts on one side of the road in India, motorists will encroach the oncoming side because there is space available there. If that leads to both sides being blocked, that is fine, as long as we maintain our advantage over people behind us or next to us. This is because the other man cannot be trusted to stay in his place.

    The Indian’s instinct is to jump the traffic light if he is convinced that the signal is not policed. If he gets flagged down by the police, his instinct is to bolt. In an accident, his instinct is to flee. Fatal motoring cases in India are a grim record of how the driver ran over people and drove away.

    We show the pattern of what is called a Hobbesian society: one in which there is low trust between people. This instinct of me-versus-the- world leads to irrational behaviour, demonstrated when Indians board flights. We form a mob at the entrance, and as the flight is announced, scramble for the plane even though all tickets are numbered. Airlines modify their boarding announcements for Indians taking international flights.

    Our opportunism necessarily means that we do not understand collective good. Indians will litter if they are not policed. Someone else will always pick up the rubbish we throw. Thailand’s toilets are used by as many people as India’s toilets are, but they are likely to be not just clean but spotless. This is because that’s how the users leave them, not the cleaners.

    The Indian’s reluctance to embrace collective good hurts his state. A study of income-tax compliance between 1965 and 1993 in India (Elsevier Science/Das- Gupta, Lahiri and Mookherjee) concluded that “declining assessment intensity had a significant negative effect” on compliance, while “traditional enforcement tools (searches, penalties and prosecution activity) had only a limited effect” on Indians. The authors puzzled over the fact that “India’s income tax performance (was) below the average of countries with similar GDP per capita”.

    We do not think stealing from the state is a bad thing, and our ambiguity extends to corruption, which also we do not view in absolute terms. Political parties in India understand this and corruption is not an issue in Indian politics. Politicians who are demonstrably corrupt, recorded on camera taking a bribe or saying appalling things, or convicted by a court, can hold legitimate hope of a comeback—unthinkable in the West.

    The opportunist is necessarily good at adapting, and that explains the success of Indians abroad. We can follow someone else's rules well, even if we can’t enforce them at home ourselves. The Indian in the US is peerless at the Spelling Bee because the formula of committing things to memory, which in India passes for knowledge, comes naturally to him. But this talent for adapting and memorizing is not the same as a talent for creation.

    The question is: Why are we opportunists?

    In his great work 'Crowds and Power', Elias Canetti observed that the rewards religions promised their faithful were all far off, in the afterlife. This is because a short goal would demand demonstration from god and create sceptics instead of believers. There is an exception to this in Hinduism. Hinduism is not about the other world. There is no afterlife in Hinduism and rebirth is always on earth. The goal is to be released entirely and our death rites and beliefs -- funeral in Kashi -- seek freedom from rebirth.

    Christianity and Islam are about how to enter heaven; Hinduism is about how not to return to earth, because it’s a rotten place. Naipaul opens his finest novel with the words “The world is what it is”, and Wittgenstein (“The world is all that is the case”) opens his Tractatus similarly.

    Hinduism recognizes that the world is irredeemable: It is what it is. Perhaps this is where the Hindu gets his world view -- which is zero-sum -- from. We might say that he takes the pessimistic view of society and of his fellow man. But why?

    The Hindu devotee’s relationship with god is transactional: I give you this, you give me that. God must be petitioned and placated to swing the universe’s blessings towards you. God gives you something not through the miracle, and this is what makes Hinduism different, but by swinging that something away from someone else. This is the primary lesson of the Vedic fire sacrifice. There is no benefit to one without loss to another. Religion is about bending god’s influence towards you through pleas, and appeasement, through offerings.

    Society has no role in your advancement and there is no reason to give back to it (in any way, including leaving the toilets clean behind you) because it hasn’t given you anything in the first place. That is why Indian industrialists are not philanthropists. Rockefeller always gave a tenth of his earnings to the Church, and then donated hundreds of millions, fighting hookworm and educating black women. Bill Gates gave $25 billion (around Rs1.2 trillion), and his cause is fighting malaria, which does not even affect Americans. Warren Buffett gave away $30 billion, almost his entire fortune. Andrew Carnegie built 2,500 libraries. Dhirubhai Ambani International School has annual fees starting at Rs47,500 (with a Rs 24,000 admission fee) and Mukesh Ambani’s daughter was made head girl.

    An interesting thing to know is this: Has our culture shaped our faith or has our faith shaped our culture? I cannot say. To return to the question we started with: Why is Brahma not worshipped? The answer is obvious: He has nothing to offer us. What he could do for us, create the universe, he already has. There is no gain in petitioning him now.
    dalbirk, Admin Singh and BhagatSingh like this.
  2. kds1980

    kds1980 (previously Kanwardeep Singh) SPNer

    re: The Brahma Dilemma. Why Don't Indians Give Back to Society?

    I agree that Indian rich class is very miser But I don't think that rich class of west is better .majority of wealth is still controlled by US and european Businessmen .If they are so generous then why do we still have large scale poverty in Asia and Africa .so picking out few example of some businessmen of west is not good comparison
  3. kds1980

    kds1980 (previously Kanwardeep Singh) SPNer

    re: The Brahma Dilemma. Why Don't Indians Give Back to Society?

    Also Muslim arab sheikhs,sultan of brunei are also known to be very rich but never heard that shiekhs being generous especially to non muslims.
  4. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Well-Known Member SPNer

    This is a rant.
    All religions have a similar opinion, and this to me seems like a bigger problem than percieved by most people.

    This world is where the game starts. This is it!! This is your only opportunity to make the best of it!! Yes, the game will end, but it is pretty fun while it lasts!!
    "No" they say! This world is filthy, the people are filthy (those of other religions, castes, race are filthier)!!

    Abrahamic faiths: We are born sick. Heaven is better. "Life" begins once you die! It's all about the after-life.
    Dharmic faiths: We have probably sinned in the past lives. Merge with God, attain nirvana. we don't want to come back to this filthy place! It's all maya or an illusion or something like that.

    Can we get away from this mentality??
    Admin Singh, harbansj24 and spnadmin like this.
  5. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895 Well-Known Member SPNer

    Dear Bhagat Ji,

    Yes we can get out of this mentality by making an honest attempt to become dead while alive(ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤੁ).
    Hell and heaven are right here on this earth, depending upon how one is leading his life. Once someone is on the spiritual path and the veil of illusion of the lower self is lifted through Akal Purkh’s Grace, and one visualizes the Higher Self, life on earth becomes a life in heaven. Divine Knowledge makes this possible with the eradication of doubt and duality. Harmonies of heaven resound in one’s divine nature. Otherwise one lives in hell, detached from Akal Purkh’s name hidden by the veil of illusion of lower instincts.

    ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਬੈਕੁੰਠਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਮਨਹਿ ਬਸਾਈਐ
    Ninā ho¬ė a baikunṯẖ jā¬ī¬ai., Nām paārath maneh basā¬ī¬ai.

    If I am slandered, I go to heaven; the wealth of the Naam, the Name of the Akal Purkh, abides within my mind.-----Kabir, Gauri, AGGS, Page 339-3

    For full article please see;

    Heaven and hell/ਭਿਸਤੁ ਅਤੇ ਦੋਜਕੁ
    Contact sikhphilosophy.net Administraion for any Suggestions, Ideas, Feedback


    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2010
  6. RandomX2

    RandomX2 New Member SPNer

    That was a pretty fun read, and it gave a good illustration as to the typical Indian citizen. Did you write it yourself? If so, kudos to you.

    From as far as I could tell, you pinned our (using 'our', because I'm assuming you're of Indian heritage) opportunist tendencies on religion as opposed to culture. Culture was mentioned more for its influence on religion, not so much as a direct factor.

    I think culture (influenced by religion, which was still influenced by culture) is the bigger factor, not vice-versa. =/

    But anyway, good stuff.

Share This Page