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Islam The Amazing Qur'an

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by muslim, Jan 28, 2005.

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  1. muslim

    muslim
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    Here are a few interesting books written about islam written by NON-MUSLIMS:

    The Bible, the Quran, and Science
    by Dr. Maurice Bucaille

    THE HOLY SCRIPTURES EXAMINED IN THE LIGHT
    OF MODERN KNOWLEDGE


    Translated from French

    by Alastair D. Pannell and The Author

    General Conclusions
    At the end of this study, a fact that stands forth very clearly is that the predominant opinion held in the West on the Texts of the Holy Scriptures we possess today is hardly very realistic. We have seen the conditions, times and ways in which the elements constituting the Old Testament, the Gospels and the Quran were collected and written down: the circumstances attendant upon the birth of the Scriptures for these three Revelations differed widely in each case, a fact which had extremely important consequences concerning the authenticity of the texts and certain aspects of their contents.

    The Old Testament represents a vast number of literary works written over a period of roughly nine hundred years. It forms a highly disparate mosaic whose pieces have, in the course of centuries, been changed by man. Some parts were added to what already existed, so that today it is sometimes very difficult indeed to identify where they came from originally.

    Through an account of Jesus's words and deeds, the Gospels were intended to make known to men the teachings he wished to leave them on completion of his earthly mission. Unfortunately, the authors of the Gospels were not eyewitnesses of the data they recorded. They were spokesmen who expressed data that were quite simply the information that had been preserved by the various Judeo-Christian communities on Jesus's public life, passed down by oral traditions or writings which no longer exist today, and which constituted an intermediate stage between the oral tradition and the definitive texts.

    This is the light in which the Judeo-Christian Scriptures should be viewed today, and-to be objective-one should abandon the classic concepts held by experts in exegesis.

    The inevitable result of the multiplicity of sources is the existence of contradictions and oppositions: many examples have been given of these. The authors of the Gospels had (when talking of Jesus) the same tendency to magnify certain facts as the poets of French Medieval literature in their narrative poems. The consequence of this was that events were presented from each individual narrator's point of view and the authenticity of the facts reported in many cases proved to be extremely dubious. In view of this, the few statements contained in the Judeo-Christian Scriptures which may have something to do with modern knowledge should always be examined with the circumspection that the questionable nature of their authenticity demands.

    Contradictions, improbabilities and incompatibilities with modern scientific data may be easily explained in terms of what has just been said above. Christians are nevertheless very surprised when they realize this, so great have been the continuous and far-reaching efforts made until now by many official commentators to camouflage the very obvious results of modern studies, under cunning dialectical acrobatics orchestrated by apologetic lyricism. A case in point are the genealogies of Jesus given in Matthew and Luke, which were contradictory and scientifically unacceptable. Examples have been provided which reveal this attitude very clearly. John's Gospel has been given special attention because there are very important differences between it and the other three Gospels, especially with regard to the fact that his Gospel does not describe the institution of the Eucharist: this is not generally known.

    The Quranic Revelation has a history which is fundamentally different from the other two. It spanned a period of some twenty years and, as soon as it was transmitted to Muhammad by Archangel Gabriel, Believers learned it by heart. It. was also written down during Muhammad's life. The last recensions of the Quran were effected under Caliph Uthman starting some twelve years after the Prophet's death and finishing twenty-four years after it. They had the advantage of being checked by people who already knew the text by heart, for they had learned it at the time of the Revelation itself and had subsequently recited it constantly. Since then, we know that the text has been scrupulously preserved. It does not give rise to any problems of authenticity.

    The Quran follows on from the two Revelations that preceded it and is not only free from contradictions in its narrations, the sign of the various human manipulations to be found in the Gospels, but provides a quality all of its own for those who examine it objectively and in the light of science i.e. its complete agreement with modern scientific data. What is more, statements are to be found in it (as has been shown) that are connected with science: and yet it is unthinkable that a man of Muhammad's time could have been the author of them. Modern scientific knowledge therefore allows us to understand certain verses of the Quran which, until now, it has been impossible to interpret.

    The comparison of several Biblical and Quranic narrations of the same subject shows the existence of fundamental differences between statements in the former, which are scientifically unacceptable, and declarations in the latter which are in perfect agreement with modern data: this was the case of the Creation and the Flood, for example. An extremely important complement to the Bible was found in the text of the Quran on the subject of the history of the Exodus, where the two texts were very much in agreement with archaeological findings, in the dating of the time of Moses. Besides, there are major differences between the Quran and the Bible on the other subjects: they serve to disprove all that has been maintained-without a scrap of evidence-concerning the allegation that Muhammad is supposed to have copied the Bible to produce the text of the Quran.

    In view of the level of knowledge in Muhammad's day, it is inconceivable that many of the statements In the Quran which are connected with science could have been the work of a man. It is, moreover, perfectly legitimate, not only to regard the Quran as the expression of a Revelation, but also to award it a very special place, on account of the guarantee of authenticity it provides and the presence in it of scientific statements which, when studied today, appear as a challenge to explanation in human terms.


    THE AMAZING QUR'AN
    Dr. Gary Miller

    Calling the Qur'an amazing is not something done only by Muslims, who have an appreciation for the book and who are pleased with it; it has been labeled amazing by non-Muslims as well. In fact, even people who hate Islam very much have still called it amazing.



    Conclusions
    Returning one final time to the subject of good guesses for the purpose of the present example, the odds that someone guessed correctly about all three of the aforementioned subjects - the sex of bees, the movement of the sun and the existence of time zones - are one in eight!

    Certainly, one could continue on and on with this example, drawing up longer and longer list of good guesses; and of course, the odds would become higher and higher with each increase of subjects about which one could guess. But what no one can deny is the following: the odds that Muhammad (s), an illiterate, guessed correctly about thousands and thousands of subjects, never once making a mistake, are so high that any theory of his authorship of the Qur'an must be completely dismissed - even by the most hostile enemies of Islam!

    Indeed, the Qur'an expects this kind of challenge. Undoubtedly, if one said to someone upon entering a foreign land, "I know your father. I have met him," probably the man from that land would doubt the newcomer's word, saying, "You have just come here. How could you know my father?" As a result, he would question him, "Tell me, is my father tall, short, dark, fair? What is he like?" Of course, if the visitor continued answering all of the questions correctly, the skeptic would have no choice but to say, "I guess you do know my father. I don't know how you know him, but I guess you do!"

    The situation is the same with the Qur'an. It states that it originates from the One who created everything. So everyone has the right to say, "Convince me! If the author of this book really originated life and everything in the heavens and on the earth, then He should know about this, about that, and so on." And inevitably, after researching the Qur'an, everyone will discover the same truths. Additionally, we all know something for sure: we do not all have to be experts to verify what the Qur'an affirms. One's iman (faith) grows as one continues to check and confirm the truths contained in the Qur'an. And one is supposed to do so all of his life.

    May God (Allah) guide everyone close to the truth.
     
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  3. lion

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    Amazing quran or ,<mod edited> quran?

    Moderator' Note: Please refrain from any bashing. Thanks.
     
  4. muslim

    muslim
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    Lol, read it and weep.
     
  5. lion

    lion
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    muslim-i did read it, <mod edited>

    Moderator' Note: Please refrain from any hurtful comments. Thanks.
     
  6. CaramelChocolate

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    To be honest I don't really want to ever read anything you have to say when you constantly speak in that immature manner.
     
  7. muslim

    muslim
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    Hmm i didnt mention the authors of the book saying anything nasty about the quran.
     
  8. SinghGur

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    i wonder why the authors never converted, maybe you should listen to your muslim brother. or ex-brother.

    Westerners Find $cience in the Quran!

    This article was published in The News From Bangladesh April 18, 2001

    The tales of Bucaille and Moor, twooccidental charlatans

    By Abul Kasem

    The new Mullahs and other Islamists feel very happy whenever they find occidental (western white person) talks in favor of their faith (Islam). This is especially true when these western people try to associate Qur’an and Hadith with anything resembling an inkling of scientific truth. For the last 25 years or so, the Islamists have found an infidel supporter (pseudo) of their faith. He is none other than Dr. Maurice Bucaille who was in France in 1920. At one time, he was the chief of the surgical clinic of the University of Paris. In 1976, he published a book entitled "The Bible, The Qur’an and science.” Ever since its publication, the Islamists have found a great sanctuary in this book whenever the question of science and Qur’an is raised. Bucaille’s writings have become not only a source of inspiration for them, but it also has become their principal source to confront the secularists who point out the various ambiguities, inconstancies and the unscientific nature that one could find scattered all over Qur’an.

    In his book, Dr. Bucaille discusses the following main topics as revealed in the Qur’an

    The Creation of the heavens and the Earth

    Astronomy and the Qur’an

    The Earth

    Human Reproduction

    If one reads Dr. Bucaille's discourse on these topics, it does not take much intelligence to note the twisted logic and his clever selection of only those verses that serve his purposes. There is not enough space in this short essay to deal with each and every aspect of Dr. Bucaille's topics. One striking point however is that he only elucidates a natural phenomenon as described in the Qur’an and interprets that natural phenomenon as the scientific explanation in the Qur’an. (For details to a rebuttal to Dr. Maurice Bucaille please visit www.freespeech.org/rationalthinking or refer to "The Qur’an and the Bible in the Light of History & Science" by Dr. William Campbell, publisher Middle East Resources 1992). This is absolutely unacceptable to anyone who has the slightest idea what scientific knowledge is all about.

    Take for example the case of "water cycle.” Dr. Bucaille tries to depict that the Qur’an had the advance knowledge of this natural phenomenon before anyone could discover it. This is totally untrue. Water cycle is really an observable natural fact that is understood even by an illiterate and uneducated (in modern science) person. This water cycle consists of the following phases. (1) Water evaporates from the land, lakes, rivers; seas etc. (2) Water is transformed in to cloud. (3) Cloud gives rain. (4) The rain replenishes the water in land. (5) Water runs to the rivers, lakes and then to the sea. The cycle then repeats. There is no doubt that this phenomenon was clearly understood even by the pre-historic people that enabled them to invent the system of agriculture, which is largely dependent on this cycle. Today, even the primary school children are aware of this cycle of nature. To say that the "water cycle" is something that is discovered by the Qur’an is simply laughable and reveals nothing but the real motive as to why Dr. Bucaille is so inclined in pleasing the Islamists. Let us look for some clues to this matter.

    Dr. Bucaille was appointed the family physician of the late King Faisal of Saudi Arabia. King Faisal introduced him to the Islamic religion and its source, that is, the Qur’an and Hadith. At that time, Dr. Bucaille was a stereotyped westerner who had prejudicial ideas about Islam and the Qur’an. He was acutely aware of the perceived de-humanized face of Islam outside the Islamic world. This charlatan found a great opportunity to make good money out of this situation. He thought that if only he could please the Islamists by writing a few good things about Islam he can have a good share of the petro-dollar that was pouring in Saudi Arabia. This will be better than remaining as a lowly physician to the king. So he learned the Arabic language and started to study the Qur’an and wrote the book, "The Bible, The Qur’an and Science". Money—he did make and plenty of it. This is due to the fact that almost all the Islamic countries have translated his book in their languages and it is a must read book for the new Mullahs. Also, consider how much blessings he had received from all the oil rich Seikh doms. For all of these, he is deeply grateful to his paymaster, the Arabs. In fact, in the lengthy introduction part of his book he writes "The debt of gratitude I owe to the late King Faisal, whose memory I salute with deepest respect, is indeed very great: the fact that I was given signal honour of hearing him speak on Islam and was able to raise with him certain problems concerning the interpretation of the Qur’an in relation to science is very cherished memory. It was an extremely great privilege for me to have gathered so much precious information from him personally and those around him".

    Dr. Bucaille's book leaves one with the impression that he (Dr. Bucaille) is convinced that Islam is the truest religion of all on earth and the Qur’an is indeed the words of Allah. Now when a person is so much convinced in a faith we naturally expect him to be a Muslim, isn't it? But Dr. Bucaille is not so stupid to follow this path. Having digested the Qur’an and the Hadith thoroughly he knew what fate awaits him (and his family) if ever he changes his mind on Islam (death for apostasy in Islam). He also realized that he could make more money if he does not convert to Islam. Therefore, until today, he is a Catholic. What bugs him to become a Muslim and follow the Qur’an, which he claims to be so divine and scientific? Being a man of science why does not he lend his ultimate allegiance to the scientific Qur’an? What answer the Islamists have for this enigma of Dr. Bucaille?

    Qur’an has 114 Suras and thousands of verses. Why Dr. Bucaille deliberately chooses those verses that deal with a handful of natural phenomena? He very cleverly chooses to quote the following benign verses

    "There is no compulsion in religion" (2:256)

    "(God) has not laid upon you in religion any hardship" (22:78)

    This is deliberately done by him to give an impression that Islam is very merciful and tolerant religion. This is aimed at people who have very little knowledge about the real Islam (especially the western people). Does not this tactic sound like the tactics used by our new Mullahs? Dr. Bucaille cleverly avoids the political, social and the violent parts of the Qur’an. Are not political and social matters scientific too? After all, there are such subjects as political science, social science, etc. Dr. Bucaille writes that he could not find any verse in Qur’an that is against science. If we have to believe this blatant lie emanating from his pen, then

    Hilla marriage must be scientific.

    Mut’a marriage must be scientific.

    Hijab must be scientific.

    Having four wives at any time and plenty of concubines (possessions of the right hand) must be scientific.

    Cacophony of azan (loud prayer call, a chief source of noise pollution in Islamic world) must be scientific

    Tayammum (ablution with dirt and stones) must be scientific

    Slavery must be scientific

    Death for apostasy must be scientific.

    Islamic genocide (like Bangladesh) must be scientific.

    Cutting off hands and feet for petty theft must be scientific.

    Using stones to relieve oneself must be scientific.

    Drinking the Camel’s urine must be scientific.

    Beating the wives to make them obedient must be scientific

    Killing infidels must be scientific.

    All the actions of the Talibans must be scientific.

    And so on.

    If the Qur’an is scientific then why not Kama Sutra (Sanskrit treatise to love making) scientific too? Why not the Bhagabat Geeta, Monu’s Sanghita, the Vedas and the Mahabharata scientific? If the Hindus could generate billions of petro-dollar they can surely employ many western professors to do just that. When I was in high school, I had a devout Hindu teacher. He always used to say that Hinduism is the basis of all science. How? He used to give examples of the mention of Vimana (air craft), Garuda (probably flying saucer or space ship), Trishul Chakra (probably rotary space station), Agni Baan (ballistic missiles), etc., to prove that the Hindus knew how to make those things, which are very common in to-days world. 'Do not these examples prove that Hinduism is more scientific than any other religion?' he used to say. We just used to nod our head in agreement. That was just to please him and to ensure a good mark in his subject. Dr. Bucille is there to please the Arabs, the Islamists and to make money; tons of it. He also employs another tactic. He declares that his own faith (Catholic Christianity) is not as scientific as Islam is. What a great news for our new Mullahs! There can be no news sweeter than this, no news happier than this, no news more pleasant than this. Nonetheless, he actually fools the Islamists by throwing dust in their eyes. Never does he covert to Islam. But Mullahs are too docile and cretinous not to see his stratagem. How sad!



    Dr. Keith Moore

    Another great sanctuary for the Islamists and the new Mullahs is the embryologist Dr. Keith Moore. He was the former President of the Canadian Association of Anatomists and professor Emeritus, Department of anatomy and cell biology, University of Toronto. When he was offered a faculty position in King Abdul Aziz University, right away he smelled the sweet scent of petro-dollars and plenty of it in Saudi Arabia. He worked with the embryology committee of the King Abdul Aziz University in Jeddah. His job was to interpret the many statements in the Qur’an and Sunnah referring to the human reproduction and prenatal development. One wonders why the Saudi Government has to employ an infidel to interpret the Qur’an when there are no shortages of Islamic scholars for this job. Why did not the Saudis have qualified people from the 'Islamic brother' countries? How come the Saudis cannot trust the interpretation of the Qur’an from their 'brothers'? The answer lies in the fact that the Arabs practice overt and covert form of racism (call it Islamic racism if you would like). Any dark skinned people who have worked in the Arab countries will attest to this fact. There are separate pay structures and perks for the whites and the dark skinned people in most Arab countries. A statement from a dark skinned people no matter how much education and knowledge he or she does have is not acceptable to the Arabs. Whereas, a sworn statement by a western white skinned person with a very little expertise is totally acceptable to them. As you know, bulks of American Muslims are blacks. However, the Arabs will seldom employ a black American to do the job of Dr. Keith Moore even though the Black American may be as competitive as a white American. The white population knows this craving by the Arabs for white recognition. And they take full advantage of this weakness of the Arabs to make more money out of them. Any way, let us hear what Dr. Keith Moore had to say to please his paymaster. At a conference in Cairo, he presented a research paper and stated:

    "It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur’an about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, or Allah, because most of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God or Allah".

    Bravo! What could be a better statement than this from an infidel to please the Islamists! Notice that he never mentioned whether the statements in the Qur’an are scientific or not. He simply stated what the Islamists wanted to hear, took his money and went home. He never converted to Islam. He just fooled the ever-gullible Islamists and the new Mullahs and laughed all his way to the bank. In the West, they say that a sucker is born every minute. I have to say that as long as Islamists are there they will produce gullible folks ad infinitum and in turn these new simpletons would be taken for a ride by the clever ones such as Maurice Bucille and Keith Moore. (For a full rebuttal of Dr. Keith Moore's findings visit www.freespeech.org/rationalthinking/)

    Readers, have you ever noticed that most of the white skinned westerners that wrote anything good about Islam have either been on the enormous pay roll of the Arabs (petro-dollar) or were engaged by them (the Arabs) to do research work on Islam (in the infidels land) with a fat budget. This type of research works on Islam is very seldom properly supervised or checked by an independent third party. The only thing that matters is the white skin of the researchers. There are plenty of talented researchers in many Islamic countries. But the petro-dollar does not reach them. Why? This is because the researchers are mostly non-whites even though they (these researchers) are good Muslims and are dedicated to their work. Many a time I have received unsolicited research findings on Islamic matters from some obscure Universities in countries like US, Canada, U.K. The researcher's name involved is always the name of an Anglo-Saxon or similar race. At one time, I received a research finding that was designed to prove that the Islamic halal method of animal slaughter is better than the western style of slaughter (that is, halal meat is more scientific than non-halal meat). They used EEG machine to measure the pain threshold and pain duration of the animals when slaughtered in the halal way and compared that with the haram (forbidden) way of animal slaughter. Now, it does not take a genius to guess what was the conclusion of this research. If a genuine researcher reads these research reports, he will simply dump that in the dustbin. Because the report breaks all the rules in designing, conducting and presenting research findings. These research reports are aimed at the gullible new Mullahs who feel great in the scientific authenticity of their belief. The western researchers are very clever. They do the science a priori. They know what the Islamists want. So they do the research backward; that is, they draw the conclusion first (according to what the Islamists want) and then they conduct the research experiments in such a way that the conclusion is confirmed. This route of a priory research makes Islamists happy. The researchers are happy and money pours in to the starved faculty of the obscure University in the West. This is what I call is a ‘Triple Win situations’ (win, win, win situation). Just imagine how much money the Islmists will throw if ever the research findings go against what the Islamists want to hear!

    When will the new Mullahs learn the lesson that these infidel western white researchers on Islam have only the dollar sign in their mind and that they just want to fool the Islamists and make more and more money out of them? Islamists views are delusional. All these testimonials from some charlatan occidentals are not going to change the gross inanity and incongruities in Islamic holy book Qur’an. The Arabs do not realize it that within the next century all that black gold buried beneath their soil would be exhausted. When that happens (believe me, that would happened one of these days), how would they finance another Maurice Bucaille or Keith Moore? There is still enough time to give up on this shoddy practice of hiring testimonial givers from the West. Qur’an, which was compiled more than 1400 years ago, should stand on its two feet. The book may have served its purpose to Arab society then. But like any other book, its time has expired. All the testimonials from Nobel Laureates will not be able to bring back its original lustre, which may have dazzled the eyes of Seventh century’s Arab Bedouins. The sooner the modern-day Islamists realize it, the better it is for prejudicial Islamic world; because, they have a lot to catch up.
     
  9. vijaydeep Singh

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    Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

    When ever this child Muslim teach Sikhs about Islam

    Das feels as if some Tenth Standard student is trying to teach a subject ot a professor who is having a doctoral degree. :u):

    People like him are responible for insult inflicted upon Islam as they make that great Faith mere a type of road show and they are selling it like a thing road side vender is selling
     
  10. The lion king

    The lion king
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    Why the hell would a civil person want to read a 7th century book when there are far more advance books available!
     
  11. Neutral Singh

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    Dear "The Lion King", i would ask you a few questions in your terminology...

    • What is so wrong with Quran (AS)?
    • Have you read it and understood it fully?
    • For that matter have you or we read SGGS Ji?
    • Have you or me read SGGS Ji and understood fully?
    • If not then what is the use of a 14th century 'book', according to you as well? How would you define advanced books ?
    • If we have not read and understood and tried to implement the teachings of those advanced books in our lives fully then what is use of such advanced books? I certainly did not expect the above post from you... dear "The Lion King" :hmm:
     
  12. vijaydeep Singh

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    Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

    Kuran is Godly but binding it with worldly science ,which are yet to be proven compleltely is idiotic.

    Dayanand first day said that sun revolves around earth as per Veda next day someone told him that it is earth so next day he changed the meaning of his vedic verse to prove the same.

    If there is any muslim who say that Islam says that earths does revolve around the sun then that guy can be acting foolish as in our milkway galaxy,motion of various objects is in such way that in some relative space sun also could be revolivng aroound the earth.Science has yet to found many truth which Vedas,Bibile ,Adi Guru Darbar and Dasham Guru Darbar have already found.

    So twisting there meanings just to fit present day descriptive sceince which is not yet perfect is foolish.
     
  13. Sher Singh

    Sher Singh
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    why cant we just live in peace, and not argue!!! im getting mad at the fact that Sikhs are drooping down to where to prove something, they go and give negative feedback! this is sickening! people saying why believe in a 7th century book, islam this, islam that,. GEEZ, grow up, is this the way The Sikh Guru's told us to act?! NO! it isnt, grow up and stop all this bs. Live according to Sikh doctrine if your a Sikh, or Islamic doctrine of ur a Muslim, etc. ALSO, im getting sick and tired of muslims saying the Quran is this and that, adn that the Quran is the best, etc. PLease Grow UP! Respect all religions and what they believe! No book is better than one another, all are Great in exaclty where they are. The SGGS is the most dearest to Sikhs, the Qur'an to Muslims, the Bible to Christians, etc. PLease stop this!!!

    no offence to anyone, im just so mad at those people who r doing this!!
     
  14. Arvind

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    Dear Sher veer,

    I appreciate your mindset of - Live and Let Live.

    In some situations, when attacker continues to attack, the victim gets mad, and reciprocates, and this is like an unending loop. For sure, respect and compassion play a great role in any situation.

    Regards.
     
  15. Sher Singh

    Sher Singh
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    True Arvind Ji
     
  16. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh



    It is possilbe to interpret whole of holy Kuran and Islam totaly in agreement with Gurmat(Sikhism) Same can be Said for Holy Vedas and Bible.



    We are the true inherters of all and true Aryans,Jews,Chrstians and Muslims at the same time.
     

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