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USA Southern Baptists want to evangelize to Sikhs

Discussion in 'Breaking News' started by Archived_Member16, Aug 14, 2012.

  1. Archived_Member16

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    Southern Baptists want to evangelize to Sikhs
    On August 13, 2012 At 6:14 pm

    After the tragic shooting, at a Sikhs temple, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, the Southern Baptists want to share the Gospel with the Sikhs. They view this as “an unprecedented opportunity to reach out to their Sikh neighbors with the Gospel of Jesus Christ,” said Aslam Masih, North American Mission Board's (NAMB) national coordinator for Muslim people groups and South Asians.

    "We have an opportunity now to turn this very sad situation into a life-changing encounter with the Gospel for Sikhs throughout North America," Masih said.

    They want to turn a tragedy into changing the Sikhs into Christians, but until now, the Southern Baptists have not focused on the 1.1 million Sikhs in metropolitan areas between the U. S. and Canada.

    Now, since the tragic event on August 5, they want to reach out to the Sikhs with the Gospel via SEND North America, NAMB’s evangelism group.

    Send North America is NAMB's church planting and evangelism strategy to penetrate lostness in 29 urban areas in North America. Through Send North America, NAMB is connecting church planters with partner churches and church planters with places that need new churches.

    Masih said he has seen evangelism opportunities this week and sees opportunities to do that with the Sikh’s temple next door to the Southern Baptist Church in Baltimore, Maryland.

    He called the temple, allegedly expressing his sorrow, and asked if the Baptist Church could visit the temple and give the Sikhs an opportunity to visit the church. Masih said the temple leadership agreed and offered to bring food.

    Masih plans to share his testimony, but allegedly the Sikhs will have an opportunity to share their beliefs with the Baptists. He also plans to leave a video about Jesus, in the Punjabi language, for the Sikhs to view. He hopes to build bridges, so that they can reach out to the Sikhs, with the Gospel of Jesus.

    "When we start with us and what we believe, they're not going to listen," Masih said. "When you talk about them, they'll listen. That's how you build a bridge. Show an interest in their lives, and you'll build a relational bridge."

    Masih views the doctrine of the Trinity and Incarnation as obstacles for the Sikhs, as they evangelize and share Christ with them.

    Sikhs take a very strong belief in the unity of God from Islam and often struggle with Christian explanations of the Trinity.

    Sikhs also see God as more of an abstract principle that cannot be defined by a human incarnation and have trouble understanding the incarnate Jesus.

    He prepares the Baptists with how to relate to Sikhs and tells them to greet them in their language. He also suggests that Baptists share their testimony and show them, “by attitudes and actions” that “God loves them.”

    "The language of love is understood by all cultures," he added.

    source: http://www.goddiscussion.com/100146/southern-baptists-want-to-evangelize-to-sikhs/
     

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  3. Inderjeet Kaur

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    Until this, we have pretty much been under the radar of the evangelisers. Now they are aware of us and we need to be prepared.

    Not really. The unity of God is not from Islam and Christians often struggle with "Christian explanations of the Trinity," falling back on the old saw of accepting it by faith. You, know, 3 = 1.

    Again, not really. Most Sikhs are well-aware of Vishnu's incarnations as Rama and Krishna and Kalki to come, and I think also once as a fish. The difference in Christianity is the belief that Jesus is the only incarnation of God and that only belief in the atonement and accepting him as your personal saviour will save you.

    If these evangelisers really think we are as stupid and naïve as this article suggests, they will be very surprised, I think.

    Beware of these tactics:
    • Presenting Jesus as analogous to Guru
    • Presenting Christian hymns as shabads
    • Presenting the Bible as the living word of God and hence like Sri Guru Granth Sahib
    • Being friendly and seeming to be interested in Sikhi and asking questions as if they are interested. THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN SIKHI. THEY ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN CONVERTING YOU.
    I have a lot of experience with that last, some of it from my own relatives.

    I hope administration does not see this as hateful. I have a lot of experience with evangelisers, most of it negative, and would like the opportunity to let Sikhs know what they are up to, their tactics, etc.

    I also highly recommend this article:

    Seeking Sikhs
     
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  4. TigerStyleZ

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    Yes, exactly be aware !! I had same experience... they just want try to convert you!
     
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    So these guys want to push their own agenda at this difficult time for Sikhs in USA. Maybe not to them but to anybody from outside their community these evangelists are portraying themselves in a bad light, especially once this article has become public.


    All this tragedy will do is make Sikhs more united and stronger. In fact they have weak characters to think that Sikhs will be so scared that they change their religion to avoid further attacks. These guys need to be taught about Sikh history.
     
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  6. Ishna

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    My step-daughter was invited to Bible study by one of her friends last year... she's had a rough couple of years with her mother's side of the family (crime, etc) and I think having people reach out and pray for her and tell her she's loved by God won her over almost instantly - and that's the biggest problem I think. If people aren't getting love and support at home or from their community they can be influenced by it swiftly and heavily.

    A colleague from work is a member of a choir of a very Evangelical group in my city, they own the biggest church here, and they had an Easter show on which I took my step-daughter to see (her parents are both atheists). They build Jesus up in the story of Easter, and then kill him (obviously) and it really gets to the humanity in anyone I think. For Christians it's obviously very affirming. After the show the pastor gives a big emotional prayer and speech, getting people to raise their hands and pray and follow that feeling which the story has created in them. It's a bit like showing someone a cooking program then handing them a burger hehehe.

    The thing that got to me the most, was at the end of the performance, when the pastor was leading the group in prayer for Jesus blessings and faith etc, I heard the family behind me praying - they were Indian! and that made me feel kind of sad.

    It's a bit tricky for Sikhi in that, despite it's amazing beauty and Truth, it's not a candy bar of warm fuzzies and love and cuddles... You don't get a pat on the back and told everything will be alright, just praise the Lord and believe in Jesus as your savior and all will be roses. Sikhi requires self responsibility, effort and a deep search for Truth and I think that might be the community's jugular vein for these Evangelicals.

    But I'm a relative outsider and could very well be wrong.

    Oh, did you know there's a book on converting Sikhs? http://www.singhsabhacanada.com/?p=394 Awe, it's out of print, what a shame...
     
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  7. Archived_member15

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    I have seen few things quite as sick and lacking in human empathy as this!

    What a truly digusting way of trying to gain converts - using a human tragedy as a launch-pad?

    I already had a very low view of the Evangelical/Southern Baptist movement (having had some very horrid experiences on one of their forums and having read all of their offensive words about the Catholic Church ie that we are the w.hore of Babylon, the pope is the antichrist, that we're not Christians etc.) and this has really made them plummet even lower in my estimations, if that were possible.

    Whatever happened to compassion?

    A belief system that would make a person want to exploit people who have suffered unimaginable pain in their community, is one that in my opinion is not "religion" in any true meaning of the term.

    No wonder people turn to atheism in the modern world!
     
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  8. Ishna

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    Are you referring to the lovely Jesus is Lord website? I had fun with that one as a rebellious neo-Pagan teen! Do they realise their hatred actually gives fuel to the seeker's fire in the search for Truth?

    I'll take Catholicism before Evangelical Christianity any day - there is thought and rationality in Catholicism and not so much hype.

    The one's who preach with hatred are missing the point - you catch more bees with honey. Preach love to people who have no love and you'll win converts.

    It's like, giving people candy to eat although chickpeas would be better for them - who wants to eat chickpeas when you could have chocolate?
     
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  9. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    and I thought everyone was declaring..WE ARE ALL SIKHS !! was that just a T-shirt slogan ?? Why NOT convert all Christians to SIKH ??? Does water only flow downwards ???

    A Banniah shopkeeper in the village put up a huge pile of currency notes with a sign saying" MONEY ATTRACTS MONEY"...so a simple Simon took out his One Dollar bill and tried very hard to attract some of the shopkeepers pile but failed. He then went Inside the shop and confronted the shopkeeper...your sign is false he said..i have been trying for an hour to ATTRACT a few dollars form your pile using this Dollar Bill but NOTHING Happened. Here hand over the Bill to me said the shopkeeper..and taking it form simple Simon he threw the dollar onto the pile he was having in the window...THERE YOU SEE..my SIGN is CORRECT...but ONLY THE MAJORITY ATTRACTS..so since MY PILE is BIGGER..your single dollar bill was attracted to my pile. Be on your way...and the simple Simon lost his last dollar..ha ha..so CHRISTIANS are the PILE here..beware...of losing your bottom dolar...
     
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  10. Archived_member15

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    Oh there are more websites than that one sister Ishna peacesignkaurMy personal favourite is from the "Jesus is Saviour" website (similar to Jesus is Lord), namely:


    "...
    Why Catholics are Going to Hell
    By David J. Stewart


    I don't mean to be unkind by saying that Catholics are going to Hell; but rather, to speak the truth and warn you of the judgment to come (2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9; Revelation 20:15). The modernistic idea that we should all refrain from criticizing anyone else's religion is a completely evil New World Order philosophy. I'm going to speak the truth of God's Word, even if it offends you. I am going to warn you that you are on a wrong road, headed for the bottomless pit, even if you hate me for it. I am telling you the truth. Catholicism is a manmade religion that cannot save you. There is NO salvation in the Catholic Church; only idolatry, worshipping of the dead, heathendom, rituals, vain repetitions and doctrines of devils (1st Timothy 4:1). Salvation is NOT found in any religion; but rather, in a Person, the precious Lord Jesus Christ!...Catholicism preaches ANOTHER GOSPEL and has ANOTHER SPIRIT...Catholics are also REQUIRED to do good works to go to Heaven. Ask the average Catholic about faith verses works and they'll admit that they're trusting in FAITH AND WORKS to save them..."

    Or perhaps the delightful:

    "...The Catholic Church is Straight Out of the Pits of Hell

    Catholics are going to Hell because they have chosen to follow the traditions of men, instead of obeying the gospel of Jesus Christ...."

    I feel sorry for these people. Humanity shouldn't be this way.

    They abhor Catholics more than anybody else.

    There are literally thousands of websites on the web saying things such as: "Invitation to Catholics - become Christians!".

    An example from a "respectable" Evangelical website of this kind of prejudice and xenophobia:


    "...
    Are Roman Catholics Christian?


    by Matt Slick





    Are Roman Catholics Christians? They are if they have trusted in Jesus alone for the forgiveness of their sins. However, if they believe that the are saved by God's grace and their works, then they are not saved -- even if they believe their works are done by God's grace -- since they then deny the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice. Being a Christian does not mean being a member of the Roman Catholic...CARM's position is simple. If a Roman Catholic believes in the official Roman Catholic teaching on salvation, then he is not a Christian since the official RCC position is contrary to scripture. Therefore, as a whole, Roman Catholics need to be evangelized. They need to hear the true Gospel..."


    So yeah we've got to be "evangelised" too :angryyoungkaur:

    The irony of course being that, as wikipedia explains:


    "...The Catholic Church, also known as the Roman Catholic Church, is the world's largest Christian church, with more than one billion members worldwide..."


    Given that the majority of Christians in the world (although not in the USA or Britain etc.) are Catholics, then this means that the majority of Christians are not Christians? :swordfight-kudiyan:

    There are whole websites devoted to evangelizing Catholics ie:


    http://www.reachingcatholics.org/


    "...Reaching Catholics For Christis an association of ministries and individuals having a zeal to share the truth of biblical salvation with Roman Catholics.
    RCFC has been formed to serve the body of Christ and its participants by functioning primarily as a clearinghouse, that is, a cooperative developed to facilitate the work of individuals and ministries committed to bringing the good news of God's gift of salvation to Catholics. RCFC directs ex-Catholics and others with a heart for witnessing to Catholics, as well as like-minded, Bible-believing churches and organizations, to the services and materials of its participating ministries. Reaching Catholics For Christ hopes to further the work of such ministries to the body of Christ and encourage support from the Body for such ministries.
    The general purpose of Reaching Catholics For Christ is to support ex-Catholics and other individuals in their endeavor to personally minister the true gospel of salvation to their Catholic loved ones, friends and acquaintances. RCFC is committed to 1) strengthen and increase the effectiveness of associated ministries which have been called to proclaim the biblical gospel to Catholics, and 2) help such ministries educate the body of Christ as to the unbiblical nature of Roman Catholic salvation. Simply, RCFC is committed to encouraging intercommunication among the millions of born-again ex-Catholics (and other like-minded believers), as well as connecting them to ministries throughout the world which can help them evangelize Catholics...."

    They genuinely believe that we are not Christians since we reject such beliefs as "sole fida" (faith alone) and "sola scriptura" (bible alone) not to mention our mysticism. Oh...Here's what they think of that:

    "...

    I once read an Evangelical write:


    "...Jesus Christ is the Son of The Most High. The wicked will not see...The Roman Catholic Church is responsible for todays false Christianity and religious confussion. Most if not all religions are tentacles of the Roman Catholic Church that have MAKING MONEY at the top of their list in common and will never admit to the fact that they are responsible for the worship of statues, self proclaimed saints, made Mother of Christ into a goddess, stand between you and Christ and many more blasphemies..."


    Yep they just love us icecreamkaur

    Just see this video:

    The Catholic Jesuit Vatican is the Harlot that Rides the Beast 2 - YouTube

    As you can see its all propaganda and lies but people do sadly believe it :motherlylove:

    I cannot blame people for rejecting the whole concept of religion after reading and seeing such things.
     
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  11. Archived_member15

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    There are exceptions of course such as Billy Graham, a 20th century Evangelical missionary who was respectful towards Catholics and people of other faiths, however he was largely ostracized and widely condemned by the a lot of more militant and prominent leaders of the community.

    In fact he was called a "Closet Catholic":


    Billy Graham's False Teachings & Beliefs,The Closet Catholic - YouTube


    He is a wonderful man who once said (and this is quoted in the above video):


    "...Well, Christianity and being a true believer -- you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ ... I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ, because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven..."

    - Billy Graham (born 1918, still alive)


    If only all Evangelicals were like him, a man of genuine Christian spirit. Ironically the above video, which aims to expose him as "false" is actually exposing him as being the genuinely good man that he is!
     
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  12. Searching

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    Vouthon ji
    Maybe what you are saying about Evangelicals is correct but from an outsiders point of view it reflects bad on all Christians and not just one sect.
    Its good we have you here to explain things related to Christianity but all people do not have that luxury.
     
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  13. Archived_member15

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    Amen motherlylove
    This is the case with practically all religions though (my own certainly included in that definition). Islam is a key example. One can think also of Hinduism, where in India extremists a few years ago murdered many worshippers in a Church.

    Nonetheless, this does not negate the beauty of the Upanishads and their message that the Lord of Love is within us all - it is the actions of a renegade sect which misrepresents Hinduism.

    All members are type-cast because of the wrongs of other people. It is natural, I suppose for this too happen, if regrettable.

    Christianity is even more complex because it has so many sects with such a wide variety of beliefs. It is almost impossible to view Christianity as a homogenous religious tradition. It is practically as diverse as Hinduism.

    Given that, I rarely refer to myself as a Christian - since there are beliefs that I do not share with other 'Christian' denominations. I call myself Catholic, which embraces all the Churches of the Catholic tradition - Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Anglican and Episcopalian. Evangelicals, Mennonites, Brethren, Mormons etc. are not part of the Catholic tradition, so there is a very real difference between us despite our common beliefs in the Incarnation, Trinity etc. (Mormons don't believe in those two doctrines so there is even greater difference in their case).

    In other words, 'Christianity' is a very loose name for what in actuality constitutes a series of very different ecclesial communities with a clear difference between those of the 'Catholic' wing (Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans) and those of the non-Catholic wing.

    Thus I do not think that one can in fact clump them both together, indiscrimanetly, without taking into consideration this key point.

    As an example, Evangelical Christianity - at least exhibited by these people - seems to have at its heart a strong "proselytism" founded upon conversion tactics. A description of proselytism:

    "...Proselytizing attacks other religious beliefs and practices in order to assert that its own way is the only way to salvation. Second, proselytizing is often supported by financial resources and marketing techniques that make local religious activity seem second-rate and shabby..."

    This is completely rejected by the Catholic Church. In the official documents of Vatican II it is stated:

    "...Proselytism is a corruption of the Christian witness by appeal to hidden forms of coercion or by a style of propaganda unworthy of the Gospel. It is not the use but the abuse of the right to religious freedom..."

    Similarly, Orthodox Churches have long been opposed to proselytism and raised this issue during negotiations for admission into the World Council of Churches. In 1956 the Central Committee of the WCC met in Hungary and discussed a report on "proselytism and religious liberty." A final version of this report was approved in 1961 at the third assembly of the WCC. It defined proselytism as a corruption of Christian witness: "Witness is corrupted when cajolery, bribery, undue pressure or intimidation is used—subtly or openly—to bring about seeming conversion."
     
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  14. Arvind

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    Dear Evangelizer Brothers,

    Please be a little mindful of using this sensitive time to convert people.

    Leave us Sikhs alone! Please and Thank You!

    People who want to come your way, will come anyways. Otherwise history has delivered a clear message - More the massacres, stronger came out the sikhs! More the price on the head of a sikh, more they grew in numbers solidly.

    With Love and Best Regards to all mankind,
    Humbly Arvind.
     
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  15. Kanwaljit Singh

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  16. Inderjeet Kaur

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    That video can't be embedded, so I went to YouTube and watched it.

    And then proof that she is not telling the truth,

    (When did any Sikh family want 2 girls, I ask you?)

    And that is just the first 45 seconds.

    The really disturbing thing about this video is her description of abuse. I wonder how much of that really happened and turned her against Sikhi? It's hard to blame her if she is escaping what she says. The hard part is that she may well be telling the truth. Although taboo to talk about, abuse does go on.

    And we all know that the case of Jaswinder Kaur Sidhu is not unique.

    We do need to clean our own house, but in the meantime, we need to make sure that our house is not infiltrated by Christians or Muslims or Hindus or anyone else.
     
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  17. TigerStyleZ

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    Brother Kanwaljit ji,
    there was already a discussion about this video. You can clearly see that this girl is ignorant and/or know nothing about Sikhi. If her Story is true her parents knew nothing about SIkhi as well , it is a shame for both - for her and her parents(but only if the story is true)
    Gyani ji is so right..! But people like Jairnail Singh ji become very seldom now, in our community...
    But the question now is " Why the youth is moving away from Sikhi"? What principles of Sikhi are so hard to follow? Why there is a disintereset? Maybe I should create a new thread..

    I have many friends who like my views and SIkhi etc.. they almost agree with Sikhi in many points- but there are just simple points that keeps them away from Sikhi - like keeping hair- that makes the "religion" ( Can we call Sikhi a "religion"?) for them "unattractive", and there it fails - so they don´t develope more for Sikhi ... I mean they are born and raised with a razor/scissor.. you understand?

    Hope you all stay in Chardi Kala!
     
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  18. Kanwaljit Singh

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    What is a Sikh?

    Keep your hair and tie a turban (Why?) Suddenly we trim our beard and shave legs.
    Wear a Kara (Why?) Some gold, some steel, some iron.
    Some (Who) will wear Kachhera and Kirpan (Why?)
    We can't smoke (Why?) but allow copious amounts of drinking.
    Go to Gurudwara every sunday (Why?)

    That sums up the Sikhi given by parents to children. After that if the child goes away from Sikhi, the child is not to be blamed.

    Guru's path is now left to be a self contradicting interpretation of Sunday Sikhs!
     
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  19. Astroboy

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    According to this quote from the bible, Evangelists should not convert everyone and its self-explanatory.
    According to The Bible, people who are born with or acquire defects throughout their lives should not approach the altar of a Church to make an offering to God because they "hath a blemish."
     
    #18 Astroboy, Aug 16, 2012
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  20. TigerStyleZ

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    Yes , brother Kanwaljit you are right , but I meant friend who aren´t born into a SIkh family..
    I encourage them to go the way of Guru .. and I tell them that they can start slowly... they shouldnt agree with all things at once.. but they should start slowly on what they already agree.. but in the end it fails just on this little things like kesh... that is what I used to mean
     
    #19 TigerStyleZ, Aug 16, 2012
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  21. WWW

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    Vouthon,
    There was a chapter in Mertons New Seeds of Contemplation, I believe it was called the Theology of the Devil. I found it to be the most enlightening explanation on the protestant mindset that I have ever read. Are you familiar with it? I think it would help many of the sikhs here better understand the difference between the two faiths.
     

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