Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Sikhs Who Do Not Keep Kesh

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Navdeep88, Jul 16, 2011.

  1. Navdeep88

    Navdeep88 Canada
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    651
    Dear Members,

    This issue is quite a sensitive one but one of great importance to me. I'd like to know where Sikhs who don't keep their hair fit in? I am one of them.
    I love gurbani, love the ideals of Sikhi...they sustain me. But I don't keep my hair, not for any other reason than I don't think my external identity is of any great significance. I dress appropriately, cleanly, and conduct myself respectfully, thats about it.

    I'd like to know the most honest opinions of baptized Sikhs on what they think of their fellow Sikhs who don't keep their hair. I accept that baptized Sikhs are more committed, more knowledgeable and are at the forefront of Sikhi, and rightfully so. Where do you see those who don't keep their hair?

    I HOPE its not the most significant issue of how much of a Sikh one can be, that would be very discouraging. But I'm seriously beginning to doubt, because there is quite a harsh judgement from some. Especially when its people doing seva at the Gurdwara.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Loading...

    Similar Threads Forum Date
    World Sikh Gurdwaras in France keep doors open; Sikhs step up through #PorteOuverte Breaking News Nov 17, 2015
    Why Sikhs Keep KESH ? Blogs Oct 21, 2015
    Do sikhs need to keep fasts? Sikh Sikhi Sikhism Oct 13, 2013
    UK Sikhs open temple as Hindus keep looking for base Breaking News Sep 21, 2013
    India We need to keep adversaries of Sikhs away from the faithful: Sukhbir Badal Breaking News Feb 1, 2013

  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    Re: Sikhs who don't keep hair?

    You are a SIKH...just at a different "level"...( not in the sense of being lower/higher - just lateral level...as in a Class...every one is a student progressing at own pace..)

    Remember our "religion" is NOT a religion per say....Its a WAY OF LIFE....we Live the Life gifted to us by the Creator...try and improve things, live better - as better human beings..more loving, more compassionate, more considerate..more truthful, more honest..as each day goes by...so that we arrive at a stage which Bhagat kabir Ji describes as...When we ARRIVED..we cried...and the World Laughed..but when we GO...we LAUGHED and the World CRIED !! IF we can go laughing..we have had a good going at being a Sikh....ALL those Hundreds of thousands of SIKHS Martyrs...standing in a long line behind Guru Arjun ji Sahib..... who GLADLY CHOSE DEATH - some horribly torturous and terrifyingly horrendous painful deaths even..EACH one--every SINGLE one of them went LAUGHING !!

    So no reason to despair..be uncomfortable..feel any lesser or shortcomings...just keep on PROGRESSING....as we are all SIKHS from the first moment here to the last moment here. We dont try and "fit" in because we are DIFFERENT.
     
    • Like Like x 11
  4. Navdeep88

    Navdeep88 Canada
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    651
    Re: Sikhs who don't keep hair?

    thank you giani ji!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. aristotle

    aristotle
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    2,654
    Re: Sikhs who don't keep hair?

    The question of Sikhs keeping hair or not has been out there for long. Sikhism, as a religion, is extremely encouraging towards maintaining unshorn hair. This is the highlight of a Sikh's worldly identity. However, we have Muslims without reading namaz five times a day, Christians without Church , Buddhists who don't even give a thought to celibacy.......and Sikhs without unshorn hair.
    The argument that it all matters on the inside is very half baked cake sort of stuff; If the inside is devoted to the Guru, the inside obeys Guru's words, and maintaining unshorn hair is one of them. Meanwhile, I don't believe in excluding Sikhs(who don't keep hair) from the Gurudwara activities or from the Sikh community. They should, however, be encouraged to keep hair, and all this I say shouldn't be done forcibly in even the slightest meaning of the word. It is a personal choice, i agree, but we should promote unshorn hair among the Sikh community and show them the true meaning of doing so, how it is so deeply connected with the Sikh and our history.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  6. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,122
    Likes Received:
    7,948
    Re: Sikhs who don't keep hair?

    Navdeepji

    As you clearly love sikhi, you are a work in progress, at some stage you will reach a point in your life where you are so in tune with the creator, your soul will want to sing out in praise, at that point you may find a deep desire to take the physical form of a sikh, not only to complement the clear inner sikh in you, but also to inspire others and as a way of honouring the creator.

    Its a long road, we are all seeking enlightenment, long hair does not define a man, but I do believe that if/when you do find yourself close to that enlightenment you will want to share that joy by embracing the k's.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  7. Joginder Singh Foley

    Joginder Singh Foley United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    271
    My own opinion on this is that utimately it is up to the individual Sikh what he or she is going to make of his or her Sikhi and much or little he or she is going to practise their Sikhi but ultimately only Guruji can judge us on our commitment to Sikhi and we should not critisc:happysingh:ise another Sikh for his/her commitment and practice of Sikhi. I have seen many instances of Sikhs who do not have full identity even my favorite hate Sikhs who wear hindu strings on their arms that really gets this Singh going but i control my anger and think that they will have to answer to Guruji for their actions just as i will and lieave them to it, Me as someone who was not born to Sikhi but adopted Sikhi will do my best to live and identify my self as a Singh as you as an individual Sikh not only represent your self as a Sikh but you also represent the entire Sikh nation and religion and i am for want of a better word proud to identify myself as a Sikh and a bearded turbaned Punjabi Sikh stands out in a crowd want you are a 6 foot plus 350 pound bearded turbaned Irishman like me you really stand out
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
    Expand Collapse
    Apache Spark, Scala developer
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    2,147
    First things first, you don't love your parents for the approval of your 'siblings' or 'relatives'. You love them because you love them. Similarly you don't keep hair for acceptance from Panth, you keep them for they have been gifted to you by Guru Himself. Guru said that those who call themselves My Sikhs and Love Me, will keep their hair uncut. You just live up to that.

    Isn't hair an ideal of Sikhi? Do you just love ideals or do you work towards them?

    Hair is nothing external, Hair is part of you. After millions of years of evolution from monkey to human, we have lost our tails but kept thick hair on our head. Why? Because hair supports the high voltage neutral activity that goes on in our brain. It is not with us by chance!

    You clean yourself for your mental peace. But you dress yourself to fit in the society. Guru is asking you to keep your hair not to fit in but for your peace.

    What do I feel about people without hair? I pity them just like I pity myself for not listening to Guru and acting under the influence of Kaam (Lust), Krodh (Anger), Lobh (Greed), Moh (Attachment) and Ahankar (Ego). I see them wandering in this lifetime just like I am, when I don't get up for Amrit Vela. I don't see myself fit for part of Panj Piyare for giving someone Khande Ki Pahul, doing Akhand Paath or Kirtan. But I don't wish to do it to fit into definition of an Amritdhari. I do it for I promised Guru. And Jin Prem Kiyo Tin Hi Prabh Payo.

    Guru has asked for Hair. If Guru comes to you and asks for something, will you be discouraged? Or jump with joy to do something for Guru?

    People do so in their moment of weakness. They end up saying wrong words, rather than giving right advice.

    Rest is up to you. It is your life and your way of living. Guru asks you not to cut hair. You may not or you might. Guru will surely find other way to convince you, so that you can go on your path of Sikhi without Hurdles and meet Him. But do you wish to wait more?

    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki Fateh
     
    • Like Like x 5
  9. calkaur

    calkaur
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    3
    So, who exactly is a Sikh? Should those who are not baptised with amrit not call themselves "Sikh" because they are not actually following what guru teaches?
     
  10. Ishna

    Ishna
    Expand Collapse
    On hiatus
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,942
    Likes Received:
    5,002
    Calkaur ji and Kanwaljit ji

    If the only people allowed to call themselves Sikh were those people who follow Guru ji's teachings 100%, there would be very, very few people calling themselves Sikh indeed! Those following the essence of Sikhi in their hearts but not outwardly, well they couldn't call themselves Sikh. Similarly those who follow the outward show of Sikhi but don't follow the essence in their hearts, they couldn't call themselves Sikh either.

    A Sikh is a student of Guru Sahib... student means they don't know everything yet. I think the term is fully applicable to anyone who is sincerely committed to Sikh faith, no matter where they are on the path. Only the individual really knows. They should be committed to growing on the path, and I personally believe that involves keeping kesh eventually. Everyone struggles with some aspect of discipline. I struggle with many! But I still call myself a Sikh because I have the intention of learning, moving forward and ultimately overcoming my shortfalls to be the kind of person who, if Guruji were to magically appear before me, he'd recognise me in my outward appearance and in the sincerity of my heart that I'm a Sikh. With Guruji's kirpa I will hopefully get there one day (with my fellow bhajis and bhenjis!).

    I think the label of Khalsa would apply to those people who in their heart and outward appearance they are true Gursikhs but even they are rare in this world, with a lot of fake Khalsas running around looking like "real Sikhs" but really their hearts are full of the five vices.

    On this topic, I was reading McAuliffe's first volume of The Sikh Religion last night and read this:
    A Jogi went to visit the Guru and congratulate him on the large number of converts he had made. The Guru replied that he had few real Sikhs, as the Jogi himself would see. The Guru and the Jogi determined to proceed into the forest and there make trial of the Sikh converts who accompanied them in numbers. For this purpose the Guru assumed a terrible guise. He put on dirty, tattered clothes, took a knife in his hand, and proceeded with some hunting dogs into the forest, ostensibly in quest of game. On this several of his Sikhs fled. It was on that occasion the Guru composed the following:-- (go here to read the shabad and the full page of text)...

    As the party proceeded they found the road covered with copper coins. Some Sikhs took them up and departed. Further on were found silver coins. Several Sikhs took up the silver coins and returned home. As the Guru's party proceeded further, they saw gold coins on the road. Several of the remaining Sikhs took up the gold coins and quickly vanished. Only the Jogi, two Sikhs, and the Guru's attendant Lahina now remained.
    Even Guru Nanak realised there were many people who called themselves Sikhs, but weren't "true Sikhs". Not everyone "gets it" right away but to deny the sincere seeker the fellowship of Sikhs (and self-identification as one) I think is cruel.

    Hair is one of a number of things which make up the full Khalsa identity and you don't get there overnight. :grinningkaur:
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    Guru Arjun Ji refers to HIMSELF..as "half a Sikh" at best..the only Complete SIKH in His time was GURU RAMDASS JI.

    SEE How High the Level bar can be ?? Some are able to walk..they call themsleves "jumpers..long jumpers..others cna jump a few feet higher..the call themsleves High Jumpers..some can jump while running..they call themsleves hurdles jumpers...yet otehrs jump much higher..pole vaulters...so many levels..so many types...why do people like to comparatmentalise..put others/themsleves into tiny boxes...and compartments/pigeon holes..the WORLD is an OYSTER...anyone can achieve naything..any level.. There were "Sikhs" like Bhai Duni Chaand who lived close to the Guru in Fort Anandpur Sahib and ate the most karrah parshaad daily...Everyone called him..the Guru's Elephant.....One day news reached the Fort that the enemy ahd brought in a Mast Elephant, almost mad with rage and that it would be attacking the fort gates the next day...Guru Ji Laughed out LOUD ( LOL ) and said..Why worry..we also have our very own Elepphant..Dunni Chaand..tomorrow we will send him out to Battle the Mast Elephant...and while Duni Chand sat beside Guru ji and received the Pat on his back form Guru Ji..deep inside he was thinking..what Madness is this..did I come here to DIE ?? How cna a human battle amad raging Bull of an elephant and survive ? In the depth of the night Duni Chand tied a rope to the fort balustrade and jumped down over the walls to escape......even a broken leg in the process didnt stop him form disappearing into the night...Next Morning...the Sikhs were sent to seek out Duni Chand so Guru Ji could make him ready for battle....but DC was persona-non-findo...he had vanished into thin air...LOL....Guur Ji pointed His Divine finger at the DIMINUTIVE..thin and wiry just 4 ft 10 inches tall..skinny looking Bahi bachittar Singh and said..THAT ELEPHANT will fight for us and DEFEAT the Mad raging Bull hammering at our gates.....and Bhai bachittar Singh accomplished just that...a MIRACLE of sorts...when with the Gurus Blessings and special cockscrew spear called naagnni, he charged the mad raging drunk elephant outside the gates of Anandpur...and standing on his horse's back, he plunged the spear into the elephants skull, piercing through metal plates tied there to protect the elephnats naturally thick skull..the elephnat badly wounded turned around and beagn to flee...Bahi bachitar singh caught hold of its tail and climbed atop its back slashing right and left its ears and trunk...the elephant raced through the mughal forces trampling dozens perhaps hundreds in its rage and death throes...and Bhai bachitar Singh returned back to the Fort to resounding cries of Boleh So nihaal !! BOTH Duni Chand and Bachitar Singh were "SIKHS" who had lived close to the GURU !!! but clearly of different LEVELS....and to the GURU..they were BOTH."MY SIKHS". Period.:redturban:mundahuglol:sippingcoffeemunda::):happysingh:
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
    Expand Collapse
    Apache Spark, Scala developer
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    2,147
    May Guru test us like Duni Chand everyday, help us realize when we fail and get back on the right track, not make us run away from Guru.

    @Calkaur ji

    We only know what Guru wants from us (and information too is getting lost with generations), but only Guru knows what He thinks.

    I reply promptly at times, it's mostly due to my passion or stupidity, don't know. Other thing I now observe about myself, is that I am constricting my mind's grip around Sikhi, which at times is leading to loss of open thinking. I try to find a balance within myself. I at times wish that I could converse only using Gurbani tuks, not using any other word out of Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Till now, I don't have that depth and strength of knowledge to go that far. So I am using other options.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
    Expand Collapse
    ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
    Writer SPNer Contributor Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,366
    Likes Received:
    5,657
    So far I see only Sikhs in the replies! I cannot say if they are Guru ji's piyare yet from inside and out! Haven't seen test results for these lately. With the current state of Sikhism and attacks on its core values, the day is not far when people will be tested.

    I have great faith. However I suspect that there will be a very high failure rate during the first real test. Many will have to relearn a thing or two including yours truly.

    Rest are words and talk from me, you and all.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  14. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,122
    Likes Received:
    7,948
    Is a sikh is someone who never stops the search, always onwards, upwards,

    could the creator be like a film with no end? in which case all we have is what we have learnt today, and what we could learn tommorow, till we die

    As sikhs, we want to be like the Guru's. We want the contentment, knowledge, the peace, knowing in our hearts that our way is the creators way, without doubt or fear, as time goes on, for us mona types, we will want to look like our Guru, to make him our ultimate role model, when teenagers get entranced by pop stars, they look upon that person as an image of who they themselves want to be, as we get older, our heroes change, from pop stars to movie stars, but the ultimate role models were the Gurus, they encapsulated everything that a balanced individual could want to be like, and what more could a sikh want, than to emulate and look like 10 of the best stars in the world
     
    • Like Like x 5
  15. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    How coincidental..i just wrote my verison of the baove in my facebook Account..

    " Modern Sikhs mostly just look like Sikhs..inside they are miles away from True Rehat of Gurbani....even the OUTWARDLY SIKH look alikes are NOT Sikhs inside....and the other side.."sikhs" who cannot/dont want to.."look" like Sikhs claim they are Sikhs "inisde"...what an anamoly..ascharajta...stra<wbr>​ngeness..one SIKH is carrying a FUSED LIGHT BULB in PLAIN SIGHT..attached to RED and Black Wire, complete with SWITCH and ALL ( 5 kakaars kesh, kirpan karra etc etc).....but is oblivious to the fact that his BULB is not giving out any :"light" as it is FUSED/BURNT out and just looks like a BULB !!...The Other "sikh" claims his LIGHT BULB is working and bright..BUT hidden inside his Jacket....also oblivious to the fact that a "Working lighted bulb" will RADIATE HEAT and LIGHT even from deep within and soon SHOW UP on the surface !! NO Amount of red wire, Black wire, On Off Switch etc will work to light up a Fused Bulb/as there is NO ELECTRICITY Flowing from WITHIN...its the REHAT..the Discipline that manufactures this Electricity !!...END OF QUOTE:

    Watch this...http://blip.tv/sikhnet/rehni-rahe-soi-sikh-mera-4154786
     
    • Like Like x 3
  16. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
    Expand Collapse
    ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
    Writer SPNer Contributor Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,366
    Likes Received:
    5,657
    Gyani Jarnail Singh ji I get humbled by your thanks in this regard. You are a fountain of knowledge whereas I just go to the fountain for a drink.

    Your contributions are of great value. As Khalsa we need to be polite and all that but we cannot just keep beating around the bush for some dialog which relates to core values of Sikhism. Clarity of thought and directness of statements with respect is the highest of all high methods of sharing.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  17. sachbol

    sachbol
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    146
    I am a soldier. A soldier in improper uniform is punished by commanders. Nobody can become a Sikh just by growing hair.
    But Hair is a part of our uniform.

    Looking from a different angle, I think a person(With cut hair) with full faith in Sri Guru Granth Saheb must be accepted
    as a Sikh and must be given full respect. Some of the Neo Babbe are taking wrong advantage of this point.

    I used to keep my beard short while in army. My commanding officer appointed me Gurdwara Secretary and asked me to
    encourage Jawans toward proper Sikhi. He allowed me to keep my beard short. After a short period I had a long flowing
    beard. This may not work for all but I think we must encourage such people to take part in Gurdwara activities.

    Gurfateh
     
    • Like Like x 3

Share This Page