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Heritage Sikhs in Pakistan

Discussion in 'History of Sikhism' started by Admin Singh, Aug 22, 2009.

  1. Admin Singh

    Admin Singh
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    Lahore: There is a curious liking for Sikhs in Lahore. The moment locals see a Sikh, they warmly greet him "Sat Sri Akaal Sardar Ji!" and go out of the way to enquire about his health. Shopkeepers even feel embarrassed taking money from Sikh customers.

    In a city where there are just seven Sikh families, they stand out with their turbans and flowing beard. "It's their exotic look that perhaps attracts people here," says Zaheer Hussain, a research scholar. Hussain feels Sikhs also have a lot in common with local Muslims. There are more than a dozen sub-castes that the Sikhs share with the people here. "For instance, if you have Sidhus, Randhawas, Virks and Bhattis among the Sikhs, you have them among the Muslims as well. As a result, locals feel an immediate affinity," Hussain says.

    Amritsar and Lahore were known as the twin cities before the Partition. If Lahore was the cultural capital of pre-Partition Punjab, Amritsar was its business capital.

    Ashraf Ali, a businessman, however, feels Sikhs are liked here for a historic reason. "We feel that in India both the Sikhs and the Muslims were not being treated fairly. So, we tend to identify ourselves with them and give them love and affection when they come here," he says.

    Many equated the 1984 Operation Bluestar with the demolition of Babri mosque in 1992. They feel persecution by the Hindus binds Muslims and Sikhs.

    Meanwhile, the Pakistan Evacuee Trust Board announced that more than 25,000 acres of land had been acquired in Nankana Sahib for the proposed Guru Nanak Dev International University. Asam Hashmee, chairman of the board, said a governing body had been constituted to spearhead the project.
     
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  3. AusDesi

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    Seven families. God damn. Far cry from the day when Non-muslims were the majority of the wealth was with Non-muslims.
     
  4. faujasingh

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    HAHAHAHAHA this article conflicts its own purpose. They like sikhs but only when 7 families are left !!!! The shopkeepers feel embarrased from taking money from them ?? i think i know the reason, those shops belonged to sikhs formerly and during partition they were looted and acquired.

    I have lived in Amritsar and i will not compare it to Lahore where there are Lashkar taiba rallies, gun and drug mafia ruling. THATS **** !!!

    comparing bluestar and babri demolition is so absurd, this is making no sense. How can our Sri Darbar Sahib be compared to ruins ???? this is insulting .

    Overall this article is too political rather than showing cultural ties.
     
  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    The JASWANT SINGH shocker...Real story of Partition 1947...( which has been promptly BANNED in BJP run Gujerat..because the TRUTH is very difficult to swallow ) reveals so much of the FALSEHOOD on which most Indians have been fed all these 60 years....the Power Crazy Nehru, Patel and Gandhi who were the REAL REASONS behind Partition..because they would rather DIVIDE the HOUSE than give some due respect to the younger brothers..the Muslims the Sikhs !! Nehru just couldn't wait to begin RULING...and Patel just couldn't wait to kill off all the Princely states especially the SIKH ones..to enable just MAJORITY RULES !! minorities can go to Pakistan..Sikhistan..whatever...we dont care attitude...just get the hell out and let us be the rulers after 1000 YEARS !! of SLAVERY....The Muslims took what was offered..the SIKHS fell for the SUGARY LIES and got nothing. NOW after 60 years..people on BOTH SIDES are realising they were taken for a ride by the wily POLITICIANS...and NOW while the Hindutva BJP wants the entire Sub Continent "united under hindutva"..the Taliban types want the Mughal Empire Back..BOTH will not get what they desire...the people may choose what they really want a nd deserve..for once...?? Dare we hope for peace and goodwill..the genuine type to resurface after all this hatred and killing of past 60 years..and three wars...
     
  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    I have been to AMRITSAR..and certainly the SIKH shopkeepers there dont feel any embarrassment to cheat even fellow GURSIKHS..especially if they are NRIs like myself who dont know the real prices !! Prices of even ordinary things like karras and kanghas kirpans etc right INSIDE the darbar sahib complex are all so INFLATED....and the shops are owned and operated by "sikhs"..and whats worse sikhs who are in Guru Ki nagree day in and day out listening to Gurbani 24/7 !!
    IN Contrast..things in Lahore were indeed given at a discount to us as soon as they found out we were from malaysia.....a "muslim country"...One taxi driver refused point blank to take the fare from us...and showed us a few more places than we asked for..all for FREE....it may be just our "luck" that we have yet to meet any such type in India even though we travelled to india all over for many years..so benefit of the doubt is there..BUT we have met a few more such good souls in various other countries we have visited over the past decades of travel..of necessity such accounts are highly personal and biased..but then thats what a personal account is...NOT every person is "politically motivated" ( I mean its not necessary for an Indian to "hate" a pakistani simply because the two nations have fought wars ?? or Vice Versa... is it ??)
    I am also aware of how the SIKH Jathas that go to paksitan on Gurpurab visits..have members that are smugglers, and bad hats..who go for businesss rather than pilgrimage...so such are on both sides.
    I found the article encouraging...hopefully more such will emerge and turn into reality..
     
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  7. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    I agree with that Nehru and patel should also be blamed for partition but in no way Jinnah was innocent.It was Jinnah's call for Direct action day which started mass riots in calcutta in 1946.Jinnah did nothing to stop Riots in pakistan .Hardly any sikh survived in west punjab and sikhs lost much of their land.so how could we say that Jinnah was seculer.Muslim league was the main culprit behind the riots in Punjab.Here is the link to the book which
    has account of riots of partition.

    Muslim League Attack on Sikhs and Hindus in the Punjab 1947
     
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  8. AusDesi

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    I know its been banned but do a bit of research though. Its been banned because Gujarat Congress was planning protest for saying things which were anti-Patel and so Anti-Gujarati.

    CM's of Chattisgarh and MP refused to ban it. They are also BJP ruled.
     
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  9. AusDesi

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    Come on man. Why did they specially want the Sikh princely states? Infact, sikh princely states were some of the smallest. Patiala, Jind and Nabha all put together are not even a quarter of the size of Rajasthan or Hyderabad.

    If you're going to use this logic of princely states then you should recognise the fact that Hindu kings were the biggest loser in the partition. They got the double whammy by Congress. They had their lands taken off them and then they were denied what was promised to them at partition.

    Also, the main ideological difference between Jinnah and Nehru was the debate on the central government. Nehru wanted a strong central government with weak states. Jinnah wanted strong states and weak central government. When he could could not get that he wanted something like 30% representation of muslims in the parliament. At last he quit congress and joined Muslim League.

    Also, one of the most important reason was the end of Zamindari. India ended Zamindari while it is running strong in Pakistan. Muslim Zamindars lost big time under Zamindari hence some of the biggest estate owners moved to Pakistan.

    I know you would want Sikh majority areas to become Sikhistan and i have no problems with that. However, If Sikhs were recognised separately you would not even have the punjab you have today. Majority of Eastern Punjab was given to India because sikhs and hindus COMBINED held a majority over muslims. IF it had been separate, alot of modern day punjab would be in Pakistan.

    I don't like Jinnah or Nehru. My people got ****** over by both of them. However, I don't mind Jaswant Singh telling both sides of the story.

    Having said that, I feel a bit sorry for Nehru. Pakistanis, other Muslims and Sikhs call him a Hindu zealot while the Hindu right curses him for being a Muslim lover. History has not been kind to any of the leading figures in the Indian partition.
     
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  10. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    I don't understand double standard of BJP. Gandhi too was from Gujarat But RSS love's To criticise him But at the same time they love Sardar patel .If people can criticise Nehru,Gandhi, Jinnah then why can't they criticise patel.
     
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  11. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Here is another view............from the Indian side...
    One sentence i "liked" is about how KN wonders if there is a Agency or some group that wants perpetual hatred between Pak and India...he forgt to mention that there is one or two similar ones in Delhi too..he he he..and "distortion" of History also occurs regularly in Delhi...see how the Sikhs have to be on their toes to keep out such distortions from School Text Books...the GUILTY are on BOTH sides !!!

    Read on..

    Wagha border should not be a site of hatred.

    I have returned from the Wagha-Amritsar border disheartened, not
    because there is no lessening of martial posture of soldiers at the
    sunset parade, but because of a new monstrosity that has come up
    there. The Pakistan authorities have put up 10 reliefs, projecting
    figures in carving on boards to show how Hindus and Sikhs had killed
    and looted Muslims during partition. The reliefs have been displayed
    in such a way that they are visible only from the Indian side. They
    cannot be seen from the Pakistan side because the back of the reliefs
    are just blank boards.

    The scenes carved out are offensive in expression and deprave in
    purport. They have been installed in the last two months, probably
    because the voice of peace with India is gaining strength in Pakistan
    and because nearly 50 people came to the border, the zero point, for
    the first time last year to light the candles since independence six
    decades ago.

    I cannot make out why Islamabad -- there must be some agency in the
    government -- has to devise ever-new ways to stoke fires of hatred.

    True, there are mindset bureaucrats and vested interests to promote
    hostility lest the candles of peace should ever dispel the darkness
    of discord. But should the history be distorted? Already, the
    official textbooks in Pakistan begin history from the advent of Islam
    in India. Mohenjadaro or Taxila has no relevance. Some effort has
    been initiated by a few intellectuals to correct the history but they
    have met with little success.

    Again, the reliefs put up at the border distort facts. Whatever has
    been shown happened on both sides. Hindus and Sikhs were victims in
    Pakistan and Muslims in India. It was the same sordid spectacle in
    the newly-born countries, neither less in brutality nor more in
    compassion. Women and children were the main targets.

    If someone were to tell me that Hinduism is greater in generosity or
    that Islam emits more love, I would beg to differ. I saw the
    followers of the two religions killing in the name of faith. They
    were raising slogans of Har Har Mahadav or Ya Ali while piercing
    sword or spear into one another. Some incidents were captured in the
    books which were published at that time. Aur insan mar gaya is the
    famous book by Ramanand Sagar and Peshawar Express by the eminent
    Urdu writer, Kishen Chander, to narrate events of how man dies when
    the Satan in him awakes. Then there are Sadaat Hassan Manto's short
    stories in Urdu that tell how the two communities touched the depth
    of crime and callousness. Even the best of friends killed each other.

    I myself travelled from my home town, Sialkot, to Delhi. I saw murder
    and worse. There was no difference in cruelty or brutality. During
    the journey, I saw the same pain-etched faces -- men and women with
    their meagre belongings bundled on their heads and the fear-stricken
    children following them. They had left behind their hearth, home,
    friends and hopes.

    The tragedy is too deep for words. But to convert it into a Hindu and
    Muslim question is something pathetic. It was a heinous crime that
    took the toll of 10 lakh people and uprooted two crore Hindus,
    Muslims and Sikhs. For some biased members at Islamabad to plan and
    depict in reliefs the tragedy of Muslims is meant to whip up hatred
    against Hindus who were as much at the receiving end in Pakistan as
    were Muslims in India.

    I wish the reliefs had shown the examples of bravery and courage, how
    Muslims in Pakistan saved thousands of Hindus as the Hindus did in
    the case of Muslims in India. A study has been made under the
    guidance of Ashish Nandy, a leading intellectual in India, and it
    shows that 50 per cent of targeted victims were saved by the two
    communities on either side.

    Nothing could be more futile than an argument about who was
    responsible for the partitioning of the subcontinent. With the
    sequence of events stretching back for over six decades, such an
    exercise can only be an academic distraction. But it is clear that
    the differences between Hindus and Muslims had become so acute by the
    beginning of the forties that something like the partition had become
    inevitable. That Hindus and Muslims were two separate nations made
    them increasingly distant to each other.

    For those who still regret the division, I can only say that the
    British could have probably kept the subcontinent united if they had
    been willing to ladle out more power in 1942 when Sir Stafford Cripps
    tried to reconcile the aspirations of the people of India with his
    limited brief. The Congress Party could also have done it if it had
    accepted in 1946 the Cabinet Mission proposals of a centre with three
    subjects -- Foreign Affairs, Defence and Communications -- and zones
    with provincial autonomy. The Muslim League could have stopped
    relations from snapping if it had not resorted to Direct Action in
    Calcutta on August 16, 1946. That led to what is known as Great
    Killing when 5,000 people died.

    But the history's ifs are at best hypothetical and at worst
    subjective. Partition was like the Greek tragedy. All saw what was
    happening. Still they could do nothing to check it. The climate in
    the country had become too polluted to escape the carnage and the
    migration that came in the wake of independence on the night of
    August 14-15. The speech on August 11, 1947, by Quaide Azam Mohammad
    Ali Jinnah, a title given by Mahatma Gandhi, that you were either
    Pakistanis or Indians and that religion had nothing to do with
    politics could not assuage the parochial feelings which had been
    advanced to justify the constitution of Pakistan. The mood of
    fanatics in that country can be judged from the fact that they
    suppressed the speech.

    Has partition served the purpose of the Muslims? I do not know.
    During my trips to that country, I have heard people say that they
    are happy that at least they have "some place" where they feel
    secure, free of "Hindu domination" or "Hindu aggressiveness." Imagine
    the influence that their numbers -- their votes -- could have
    commanded in the undivided subcontinent! They would have been nearly
    one-third of the total population.

    The reliefs at the border only widen the gulf between the two
    countries. Instead of apportioning the blame of partition, it would
    be far better to deal with the enmity and hatred that has been the
    fallout, keeping the two countries on tenterhooks.

    Kuldip Nayar is an eminent Indian columnist.
     
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  12. AusDesi

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    Yes it shows the hypocrisy of RSS. They claim Patel to be a champion of the Hindu right. Its true that Patel was a religious person who was a strong leader and united India. However, same could be said for Gandhi. Gandhi was religious, a shrewd politician and he united atleast hindus in one group.

    I think the main reason they claim patel is Somnath. Modern day temple of Somnath was a mosque in 1947. Unlike Sangh Parivar, Patel did not go and demolish the mosque. He talked with the muslims in mooving their mosque a couple of kilometres. They did so and the result is the modern day Somnath.

    Now what i don't understand is why RSS champions him for that. They did the exact opposite. They demolished the Mosque. Now Babri is such a big issue that it will NEVER be solved. Its not about a mosque or temple anymore its about Hindus V Muslims. Whoever gets the decision their way, a lot of people will be killed and history will again give birth to a Babur.

    EDIT - Their hypocrisy extends also to their own people. BJP these days doesn't talk too mucha bout Veer Savarkar. The man was a atheist who had no problems with cow slaughter. Yet when they needed him they championed him.
     
  13. AusDesi

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    Thats obvious. You can't clap with one hand. There are many people responsible for creating hate against Pakistan.
     
  14. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    I read plenty of Articles on partition.majority of writers blamed Patel for not caring about muslims in India on the other hand the same writers praised Gandhi and Nehru for trying to stop riots and allowing muslims to stay in India.
     
  15. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    REALITY is and WAS..no one could have pushed ALL the Muslims to Pakistan..just too many of them...so Nehru/Gandhi tried their best effort at DIVIDING the SUB CONTINENT to get as "much" of it as possible..and DAMN the consequences. Paksitan was smaller..and Sikhs/Hindus were lesser..they managed to get RID of nearly ALL non Muslims....BUT still the Religious umma unity etc FAILED because Bengalis hated the Punjabi Pakistanis...and till today the balochis hate the sindhis, the sindhis hate the pushtuns...and they ALL hate the Mujharis who migrated from Bihar/UP into DREAM Pakistan only to find that nobody gave a damn about their religion..they were UNWANTED //illegall imigrants....the PUNJABI MUSLIMS are the ZAMINDAARS OWNING and RUNNING Pakistan..and all the others are SLAVES of the Punjabi Muslims...
    RELIGION is never the GLUE to hold Nations together..sooner or later the ECONOMIC REALITY strikes..and then CHAOS begins...Bhukha Mullah Ghareh maseet..Economics rules foremost..that si why it was so easy for Indira to engineer the breakaway of Bengal into Bangladesh !! and the Horrendous atrocoities the Fellow Pakistanis havocked on their fellow/co-religionists Banglas..raping and killing teenage gilrs and all...shames any religious person.
     
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  16. AusDesi

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    Its possible but if he really wanted to be right wing he would have joined the Hindu Mahasabha.
     
  17. faujasingh

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    we can give blame the nehru gandhi and congress party pvt ltd always but to tell you what i feel about it, is its like flogging a dead horse. I firmly belive one thing a butcher will slaughter because there is a demand for meat. Similiarly nehru gandhi and congress pvt ltd ran their business because there was a demand for them to lead.

    One man called muhamad ali jinnah demanded pakistan and ordered his co - religionists to go for 'direct action' . 2 people gave in, gandhi and nehru. Gandhi for his weakness and the ardent desire to show the angel in him and go ahead with his ideology of the ahimsa and Nehru for sheer happiness, foreseeing the happiness of his dream coming true of becoming the first Prime Minister of a divided India.

    Perhaps we all should migrate to Lahore since its going to be good discounts ! :)
     
  18. AusDesi

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    I've packed my bags already.

    Oh wait, they hate hindus lol.

    *puts clothes on hangar again*
     
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  19. spnadmin

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    faujasingh ji YES
     
  20. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Sure No one could have pushed entire muslim population of India.But like Lahore,Karachi etc Delhi could have been ethnically cleansed from them.But in 1947 Gandhi was highly pro muslim and It was purely because Of Gandhi and Nehru large population of muslims in Delhi Survived.One can still visit Jama masjid,Old delhi and see the pre partition type environment with Hindu,sikh and muslim shopkeepers and people moving around But one cannot say the same thing about the lahore because there was no muslim league leader to save them.Similarly large number of Uttar pradesh muslims
    which were well known supporters of Muslim league stayed in India .

    Also I would like to point out that in East bengal hindu population too was
    very large about 30% before partition.but today only less than 10% are their

    Surely there is communal environment against muslims in India and congress too did soft hindutva from time to time .But in No way one can compare communal environment and ethnic cleansing that happened in East and West Pakistan with India
     
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  21. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Hindu Mahasabha did not have mass support and Patel was very senior leader of congress.Joining Hindu Mahasabha could have finished his career in politics.
    It is not neccessary that one should be in right wing party to support Right wing views.One could still be a part of Liberal party but still have sympathy towards your own right wing community.
     
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