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General Sikhi and Creationism

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by harmansingh85, Aug 22, 2014.

  1. harmansingh85

    harmansingh85
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    Hello SPN! I have been a lurker for a while, but now I finally made an account.

    I have a question/discussion. My parents are very strict Sikhs, and whenever I ask them a question they get mad at me. For example, one time I asked my mom why there weren't more Sikhs in the world, and why most lived in Punjab if Guru Nanak Dev Ji traveled widely around South Asia. A simple question, which I thought did not disrespect our beliefs. Unfortunately, my parents thought so, and instead of answering the question, my mom started thinking that I "hated" Guru Nanak Dev Ji. I was astonished at this.

    Anyways, I was watching some videos on the universe(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NbBjNiw4tk)
    and I saw this Bill Nye video on how kdsi should not be taught about creationism. In the comments, there was an argument between a Christian and an agnostic. The Christian was talking about creationism, and the agnostic was talking about science.

    Then I started wondering, what does Sikhi believe in, when talking about evolution, or how the world started? Do we believe in the Big Bang, or in creationism? Because I myself believe in evolution.

    By the way I am only fourteen, but talk to me as you would talk to an adult. I am very mature and relatively smart for my age.
     
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  3. Brother Onam

    Brother Onam United States
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    #2 Brother Onam, Aug 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  4. harmansingh85

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    Thank you for the reply Onam Saab. Does that mean that it all happened at one time, at God's command, or does it imply that it happened over a series of time?
     
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  5. Brother Onam

    Brother Onam United States
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    Young brother,
    When you're dealing with something like the creation of universes (the bani teaches that there were created many worlds above our own as well as many nether worlds below), I think the whole conception of time becomes bewildering. But yes, I think the bani suggests a more-or-less instant creation!
    Sikhi is a faith that's rooted in sacred Truth, and as such, I've found nothing in the teachings that would violate our understanding of science. As such, I see no reason to doubt evolution or other logical processes we deduct from observing our world.
    Sikh doctrine posits no outlandish theories of how humans were created, whether from mud, or someone's rib, or from a stalk of corn, etc.
    Stay strong in your inquiries, young brother, there is nothing higher than Sacred Truth.:purple-pargi:
     
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  6. aristotle

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    Well said Brother Onam Ji...
     
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  7. ActsOfGod

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    Well done Harman Singh. The fact that you have questions means you are taking things seriously and are genuinely interested. That is a wonderful thing. Never stop asking, thinking, inquiring, learning. This is what Sikhi is about, inquiring and learning. So you're absolutely doing the right thing.

    Sometimes parents may not be able to give us answers that are satisfactory for us, and sometimes they may get emotional (upset/angry, etc.) if we ask questions, but that is not your fault in any way. You didn't do anything wrong. Even though your Mom misunderstood you, don't be upset at her. Perhaps she doesn't have the answers you need, but if you keep learning, you will get the answers.

    Guru Sahib gives us the answer. When you begin reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib, it starts with "Ik Oankar"

    Roughly translated, "From the One [Creator], came the sound that created the entire Universe". Guru Sahib is describing the phenomenon that scientists now call "the big bang", which is used to describe the creation of the Universe.

    So the short answer to your question is yes, we do believe in the big bang.

    If you keep your inquiring mindset, and keep asking questions, you will find out just how amazing our Guru Sahibs are. Keep learning, keep asking, keep an open mind, and keep checking in with your inner voice and intuition.

    Read Gurbani, start with japji Sahib, and when you come across something you don't understand, do some research and learn about it. Eventually you will realize what a rare and valuable gem you have been gifted with. I can't even describe it with words.

    Yes that is evident. You're a very thoughtful and resourceful young man. Keep up the great work!

    Guru Sahib kirpa karan.

    AoG
     
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  8. Inderjeet Kaur

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    A while back I wrote an article about the relationship between Creator and science from a Sikh perspective. It is very short as and simple. I hope it helps to clarify the issue. This is, of course, just my take on the subject.

    GOD and SCIENCE - What I believe, in words an intelligent child can understand
    My answer to the question, "Do you believe in God or Science?"
    I will repeat myself.
    There is a Creator who created everything (except Itself which is eternal beyond Its creation). Much more could be said here, but the discussion of the genesis of Deity is far beyond the scope of this simple explanation of God's relationship to Science.


    [​IMG]
    I really miss dear, old, eccentric Pluto.
    When this Creator created the universe, It made it to run in a particular way, according to certain rules that we call Natural Law.
    We call the Creator God.
    We call our attempts to discover and codify Natural Law, Science.
    There can be no conflict, no contradiction between God and Science.
    If there is an apparent contradiction, that shows our lack of understanding.
    (And it's OK to be agnostic or atheist. OK with me, at least.)

    :sippingcoffeemunda:
    https://sites.google.com/site/mynotesfromfb/god-and-science-simplified
     
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    #7 Inderjeet Kaur, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
  9. harcharanjitsinghdhillon

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    birth is taking place in one house and death is taking place in another house.. we are located on earth, but at the same time million miles away new stars and creation is taking place, and in other places far away dissolution of stars are taking place at the same time....
     
  10. harcharanjitsinghdhillon

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    Sciences comes from the mind and intellect.. Spirituality comes from soul spirit....
     
  11. eileen

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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

    Harcharanjit Singh Dhillon Ji's simple comment resonates with me.

    For me a lot of this controversy in the U.S. is grounded in a battle between Christianity and Science. I believe Christianity establishes a personified deity as a God, and therefore the characteristics of this God, and the debates about God vs. Science reflect an attempt to envision the scope and method and behavior of this God-person.

    In Sikhi I don't find this type of conflict because Gurbani tells me that god is a formless and shapeless Creator and not a personified deity. I understand that this Creator is present within me and within all people. I don't attempt to uncover the rules by which the Creator is involved with the external world because I am not seeking external validation or proof of the Creator's existence.

    So to my mind, there is no conflict. The more science discovers, then the more we learn about the external world that exists and that is great for the advancement of science and learning.

    What I am focused on in my own contemplation is the interaction between the Creator within me and the external world and others, and how I can become better at expressing the Creator within me through my actions.

    For me Gurbani leads me on an ethical journey of understanding more than a metaphysical journey of understanding. Maybe that is why your parents were so dismissive. Maybe they felt you are going into a debate that does not best serve your goals?
     
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  12. Kulbirrose

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    Perhaps some worlds were created quickly, some slowly. Reading various books by authors such as Gregg Braden, Lynn McTaggert, Bruce Lipton might be interesting for you. Exploring Astronomy might be useful as well.
    The quick answer would be to follow what Guru Nanak said, "See God in All."
     
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  13. Ishna

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    Did the "Creator" create things deliberately, precisely and on purpose, or did the "Creator" set in motion the natural laws which run automatic mechanisms of creation and destruction?

    (Personally I go with the latter.)
     
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  14. eileen

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    i also agree with the latter, because it removes the notion of a sentient being acting like a puppetmaster. i think that puppetmaster type description which is common in other religions is what gives rise to the creation controversies because people begin to suppose the being's intent and judge the process of creation and also debate the methods by which this type of being is micromanaging things. i think people tend to try to define and understand the behavior of such a being in order to create external 'proof' and it is kind of missing the point, in my opinion.
     
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  15. eileen

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    i would also add one thing related to this that is part of my understanding of Gurbani and the nature of Hukam, which is often translated as "Divine Law" and seems related to this discussion of the nature of actions of the Creator in the world.

    i don't think it is necessary to understand that there is only one method by which Hukam operates, i believe the description of Hukam in Gurbani can be understood as both the set of laws that govern the external world and also the set of laws that govern the Creator nature within or soul. so Hukam in the external world may be something like the law of gravity. and Hukam that relates to my soul might be something like pushing a person out of the way of a boulder that is rolling down the hill due to gravity.

    i believe the separation of these two is a duality that is to be overcome by living according to the Creator nature first and foremost, and expressing that nature in the external world through our actions.

    this point may be far off the topic, but these connections are what come to my mind and maybe they set the context for the points i am trying to make regarding creation.
     
  16. Inderjeet Kaur

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    I think the Creator set it all in motion, and not being bound to time, most especially linear time, it has always known what will happen.
     
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