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Sikh Gurus Sikh History, Vol 1: Guru Nanak Sahib (Part A)

Discussion in 'History of Sikhism' started by Gurmat Vichaar, Jun 26, 2016.

  1. Gurmat Vichaar

    Gurmat Vichaar
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    Sikh History, Vol 1. Guru Nanak Sahib (Part B), by: Dr Harjinder Singh Dilgeer
     
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  3. Original

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    ...well worth listening to !

    Dr Dilgeer has attempted to consolidate what otherwise, remains pretty much a fragmented historical account of Sikh History. The dialogue between the present and the past is well documented and balanced. As a historian, he could not entirely escape from the influences of age and the current environment in which he lives. Accordingly, element of subjectivity in interpretation and reconstruction were unavoidable. This gave way to his own prejudices and preoccupations. Result of which, showed significant unparallel between the spiritual and the temporal.
     
  4. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Original ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Please elaborate your thoughts for all of us.

    Thanks
     
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  5. Original

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    Dear Sir - A very good morning !

    Further to your text above, I'm of the opinion that Dr Harjinder Singh Dilgeer has done the best he could as a historian on the source materials available, notwithstanding as it were, the lack of primary sources and relying solely on the secondary. His account is reasonable, insofar, interrogation, evaluation, analysis and interpretation of the human past a reconstruction. Both interpretation and reconstruction fell much to much on deciphering secondary sources in line with the change in time. Throughout the interview, his keenest is discernible from emphasis placed on elimination rather than, on reliance of the historical account we have to date, and as a result, an attempt to reconstruct the Sikh past using hard-core logic. It makes sense to separate the wheat from the sheaf in what otherwise, is overtly interwoven between fact n fiction.

    However, I feel, Dr Dilgeer was pretty economical on Nanak the spiritual than he was on Nanak the temporal, particularly, the experience at the River in Sultanpur Lodhi. In that, he provides the mere base for the spiritual experience of Nanak, which forms the very basis of Sikh as a separate Religion, but not the actual account. His admission by way of acknowledging that Nanak regularly held his "vichar" [I'm inferring it to mean meditation] at the River is indeed commendable, but yet, his lack of appreciation of value, importance, creditability, delicacy and above all sophistication of a mechanism that is fundamentally the root cause, illustrates an unbalanced bias.

    I'm led to conclude that Dr Dilgeer is more inclined to reflect on the sociological account than he is in interpretating and reconstructing the historical perspective within which Sikhism came to be as a Religion.

    I'm humbly obliged to tell the reader that this is what "I" make of the interview.

    Good day !
     
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    #4 Original, Jun 27, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
  6. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Original ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Before I pick your brain for my own benefit, please share your opinion/s about the two historical places in Sikhi.

    1. Panja Sahib
    2. Hem Kunt

    Thanks.
     
  7. Original

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    Sir

    We have what we call confirmation bias, a flawed system in our thinking ability. This is an evolutionary condition built into our system. Any logical or clinical justification sought to explain the irrational nature of humankind is not only fraught with difficulty, but is rather complex. As a result, natural law jurists and philosophers in general have excluded the entertainment of such phenomenon as not having proper genetic basis for the psychological predispositions of the individual mind. Accordingly, we've made provisions for those who believe pigs can fly, Dolphins sleep with one eye open, slugs have four noses and Guru Nanak having an iron hand. All on account article 18 of the human rights law, which states that all individuals have the freedom of thought, conscience and belief.

    Both Panja Sahib and Hemkunt Sahib are means to an end, and the end is Waheguru. If people choose to believe in both of the above and find it helps them coordinate and connect with their inner being [Waheguru] as a result, then let them, for that'd be their freedom to chose a right to which they are entitled.

    Sikhism is way beyond external edification and reverence - Sikhism is spiritual and spirit is Waheguru. All else is incidental ! Make what you will, Sir !

    In my humble opinion, Dr Dilgeer would be the appropriate authority to seek further guidance from.

    Much obliged
     
  8. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Originalji

    Dr Dilgeer would not be the appropriate authority to seek further guidance from regarding your personal opinion, I think it is important, given the discussion and your views on Dr Dilgeer.

    If need be, we can then open a new thread discussing such, but in the interests of furthering discussion on this thread, I see no harm in your personal view, I think it can only give our arguments strength if we are all open and clear about our beliefs.
     
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  9. Kully

    Kully United Kingdom
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    A few points from the video:

    1. Dr Dilgeer Sahib feels that Guru Nanak was in the habit of reading literature from which he furthered his knowledge, and it was his understanding of such literature that impressed the people wherever Guru Ji travelled.

    2. Dr Sahib's take on the Sacha Sauda feels like his is purposely looking for ways to negate this.

    3. Dr Sahib's take on Guru Nanak Ji at Bein nadi seems very out of keeping for a "Professor of Sikhism". He asks was there a tunnel through to the bottom of the nadi to where Sri Akal came to meet Guru Sahib. (I have also heard him saying that Guru Ji hid in some bushes in the river for 3 days whilst formulating a plan on what to do next.)

    Then also trying to explain that Guru Sahib was known as Nanak Nirankari, so why did Sri Akal come to meet him, made me give up on the rest of the video.
     
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  10. Original

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    Hi Kully

    Dr Dilgeer is not the first nor the last. This has always been the case and always will be the case, hence, manmukh nature. For if Nanak's mystical wisdom lay ready to hand and was easily accessible to the manmukh, why and who would value gurmukh and for what ? It must be 'cause all noble things are difficult as they are rare. Nanak's spiritual Sikhi isn't everyone's cuppa !

    Baba Ji sums it nicely:

    ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੧ ॥ ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਗਡੀ ਲਦੀਅਹਿ ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਭਰੀਅਹਿ ਸਾਥ ॥ ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਬੇੜੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਗਡੀਅਹਿ ਖਾਤ ॥ ਪੜੀਅਹਿ ਜੇਤੇ ਬਰਸ ਬਰਸ ਪੜੀਅਹਿ ਜੇਤੇ ਮਾਸ ॥ ਪੜੀਐ ਜੇਤੀ ਆਰਜਾ ਪੜੀਅਹਿ ਜੇਤੇ ਸਾਸ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਲੇਖੈ ਇਕ ਗਲ ਹੋਰੁ ਹਉਮੈ ਝਖਣਾ ਝਾਖ ॥੧॥ SGGSJ 467

    Translation : One can read books until the cows come home, but the speculative mind and the on-hand clinician will never know the ultimate reality that is "satnam" - Waheguru !

    Goodnight -
     
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