BhagatSingh
SPNer
- Apr 24, 2006
- 2,921
- 1,655
haha, I second that. We all have this self destructive thing (i think hormone) inside that we must keep under control.
BhagatSingh
SPNer
- Apr 24, 2006
- 2,921
- 1,655
The above sentences sound cool on paper but in reality they fall apart. You are forgetting that gravity is measurable. We have defined what it is and it has become a law.
God on the other hand cannot be described fully (defined).
Now about your tasting sugar analogy. God is not something we can measure, in case of sugar, it was measuring the sweetness. And sugar is NOT the only thing that tastes sweet.
Sugar free gum anyone? :ice:
Thanks for the ice cream, but I would rather play here and watch your PLAY on words
. :u):
Well Aad and Aman ji,
Once more I tried. It is like hitting my head against the wall. You cannot raise ones awareness if it is not in ones Destiny. I do not have time to waste.
"Vishta ka keeda, Vishta mein reha samai"
Randip Singh mandli "Zindabad"
Santa Singh mentality "Zindabad"
Regards
ekmusafir_ajnabi
Stop throwing the toys out of the pram....grow up!OMG
It is not uncommon for MAYA to put agents to block the TRUTH reaching general public. The business of Maya will collapse otherwise. Gubani says quite clearly
"Koor phirey pardhaan ve Lallo"
So you are one of these "Maya" Agents?:}{}{}:
No, I am! Please do not try to take away my role in this regard.Why don't we take a look at the different meanings of atheism and then think of the argument so far from these different points of view.
BhagatSingh
SPNer
- Apr 24, 2006
- 2,921
- 1,655
I got one: questioning the exitence of God.
Why don't we take a look at the different meanings of atheism and then think of the argument so far from these different points of view.
Why don't we take a look at the different meanings of atheism and then think of the argument so far from these different points of view.
I guess if reading Bani and Truthful Living is our goal then we Sikhs are all defined as agents of Maya by Ekh Musafir
- Oct 10, 2009
- 48
- 47
First of all science cannot overtake religion SGGS is far superior and most
advanced scripture in the world. The concept of god is well defined in Sikhi
because Japji Sahib is description of SGGS. The world WAHEGURU is been
used the day man set the foot on earth.
advanced scripture in the world. The concept of god is well defined in Sikhi
because Japji Sahib is description of SGGS. The world WAHEGURU is been
used the day man set the foot on earth.
- Aug 28, 2010
- 1,514
- 1,116
- 72
THERE IS NO CONCEPT OF GOD IN SGGS there are reasons to say so
It is important to understand that the BASIC CONCEPT OF SGGS is based on
the word GURU. and GUR.
Considering the very grammer of the word GOD we would find that the word GOD does not fit anywhere for any reference in Gurbaani.
Secondly the word GOD is not a word of Gurbaani Vocabulary.This is an extra word so its use should confom to the grammer of Gurbaani language which is difficult to justify.
This is a UNIQUE beauty of the language of SGGS that the moment anyone tries to make use of any extra word it should be made according to the grammer of the language of SGGS ji otherwise its use does not convey any meaning of the messages of Gurbaani.
Thus it may be important to consider the above points and see what the word GOD can refer in Gurbaani.
I am not against the sanctity of the word GOD whichmay be one of the important word in some other philosophy but certainly the word GOD may not be reference for anything in SGGS .
Prakash.S.Bagga
It is important to understand that the BASIC CONCEPT OF SGGS is based on
the word GURU. and GUR.
Considering the very grammer of the word GOD we would find that the word GOD does not fit anywhere for any reference in Gurbaani.
Secondly the word GOD is not a word of Gurbaani Vocabulary.This is an extra word so its use should confom to the grammer of Gurbaani language which is difficult to justify.
This is a UNIQUE beauty of the language of SGGS that the moment anyone tries to make use of any extra word it should be made according to the grammer of the language of SGGS ji otherwise its use does not convey any meaning of the messages of Gurbaani.
Thus it may be important to consider the above points and see what the word GOD can refer in Gurbaani.
I am not against the sanctity of the word GOD whichmay be one of the important word in some other philosophy but certainly the word GOD may not be reference for anything in SGGS .
Prakash.S.Bagga
prakash s bagga ji
There are real dangers to being armchair philosophers when claiming that Sikhism is atheistic. I would say no it is not -- the idea of [GOD] takes on more than one form. The word "GOD" fits western religions, but even western religions in some cases do not espouse the concept of a personal [GOD] and these religions also do not claim to be atheistic.
It is also very frustrating when you return to the Gurbani argument without being explicit regarding "Gur" and other terms that you use. It makes discussion with you impossible because no one knows what you are talking about - you give no definitions.
If one is trying to say that [GOD] in Sikhi is not "God" because the Sat is timeless, formless, and all pervading, then we are treading a slippery slope. I have read this argument Nirankar in Sikhi = Atheism 1000 times. A timeless, formless, all pervading divine principle can be called anything you like, including GURU, GUR or GOD or Sweet Potato, or be labeled in many other ways -- as is the case in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. A timeless, formless, all pervading divine does not however make Sikhi atheistic. So we all of us really need to move from simplistic labeling and pay more attention to the subtleties of theology and philosophy; otherwise, some truly misleading statements are made.
Thanks.
- Aug 28, 2010
- 1,514
- 1,116
- 72
SPNADMIN Ji,
First of all let me make it clear that the Quote is not mine.
I value your concern a lot and I was expecting your response like this one.I have nowhere tried to esblish any similarity between Sikhism and Athiesm.
I have simply mentioned a concern how correct is the use of word GOD with reference to Gurbaani in SGGS.Nothing more than this.
We are already sharing many views with respect to certain values in Sikhism and you would also realise that many misunderstandings are responsible for certain uncalled for circumstances like that of FAKE GURUS and BABAS.
I have my different viewin this regard .It is important to have greater transpareny
in understanding of our Philosophy of SGGS so that no one can attemt to damage the very concept of Gurbaani.
The point which I have raised should be viewed in right perspectiveand simply outright rejection may not help .Its serious thought might result in better results.
Otherwise why should I have concern if the concerned at large are comfortable withany words
We should clarify the correct reference meaning of the word GUR from our various Academic institutions and let us see what they opine.
You will surprise to know that in INDIA there is prfound use of the word PARMATAMA in interpretation of Gurbaabi.You will notice there is no such word in the whole of Gurbaani.I always try to bring this to the notice of various scholars regarding this too.
There are deliberations going on regarding this also.
Any way if SPN sangat feels uncomfortable with this point of viewThis shall not be raised anytime in future.
Prakash.S.Bagga
First of all let me make it clear that the Quote is not mine.
I value your concern a lot and I was expecting your response like this one.I have nowhere tried to esblish any similarity between Sikhism and Athiesm.
I have simply mentioned a concern how correct is the use of word GOD with reference to Gurbaani in SGGS.Nothing more than this.
We are already sharing many views with respect to certain values in Sikhism and you would also realise that many misunderstandings are responsible for certain uncalled for circumstances like that of FAKE GURUS and BABAS.
I have my different viewin this regard .It is important to have greater transpareny
in understanding of our Philosophy of SGGS so that no one can attemt to damage the very concept of Gurbaani.
The point which I have raised should be viewed in right perspectiveand simply outright rejection may not help .Its serious thought might result in better results.
Otherwise why should I have concern if the concerned at large are comfortable withany words
We should clarify the correct reference meaning of the word GUR from our various Academic institutions and let us see what they opine.
You will surprise to know that in INDIA there is prfound use of the word PARMATAMA in interpretation of Gurbaabi.You will notice there is no such word in the whole of Gurbaani.I always try to bring this to the notice of various scholars regarding this too.
There are deliberations going on regarding this also.
Any way if SPN sangat feels uncomfortable with this point of viewThis shall not be raised anytime in future.
Prakash.S.Bagga
- Aug 28, 2010
- 1,514
- 1,116
- 72
SPNADMIN Ji,
I seek a very specfic answer for a question from your goodself
What is the need of making use of any word which is not a content of Gurbaani .Are Gurbaani words insuffcient to get the complete and perfect interpretations ?
Pl do resond me to these.I look forward to this.
Thanking you,
Prakash.S.Bagga
I seek a very specfic answer for a question from your goodself
What is the need of making use of any word which is not a content of Gurbaani .Are Gurbaani words insuffcient to get the complete and perfect interpretations ?
Pl do resond me to these.I look forward to this.
Thanking you,
Prakash.S.Bagga
I have come accross thios problem before.
Unfortunately many people confuse the Abrahamic concept of "God" with the Sikh one. Two different concepts.
For example, in the opening line of the Sikh prayer
Ek Onkar is interpreted as One God but Onkar actually means "Constant".
prakash s bagga ji
The answer is: so that people can communicate with one another, from different times, cultures, and from one to another language, language must be used, ordinary language as it is spoken in ordinary ways. So we have to use ordinary words in order to discuss the vocabulary in Gurbani. If we don't then how do we communicate?
Randip Singh ji
If that is true, then why does the mantar begin with the number 1 instead of the word "one." In ekoankar ੴ ੧ implies the unity or oneness of creation.
- Dec 21, 2010
- 3,384
- 5,689
Aethism: Just some thoughts developing out of wiki,
Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.
Based on the above Sikhism is in concert with atheism if one God envisioned in Sikhism is not classed a deity, which it cannot be since it is recognized as pervasive and present in everything in the universe known or unknown. What is present in everything is not a deity concept in the traditional sense.
In extreme summary through "Mool Mantar" is a definiton of the general scope of Sikh God being, a single universal truth pervasive without bounds of fear, animosity and time. In a way a very impersonal or extremely fair regardless of consequences (akin to concepts of Universal morality). We do need to recognize also that Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji keeps warning in case we try or attempt the full disclosure of such a truth as that is not achievable. Hence conversely, a Sikh God if not completely definable and is inconsequential, as long its search is or understanding is carried out with that premise to be in unison with the single universal truth foundation.
I think I may have said more than I should and stand corrected/commented.
Sat Sri Akal.
*****************************************************************************************************
Notes: Some perhaps non-thread related material I will delete if not appropriate or put it under a new thread.
Just some thoughts for consideration, comments and correction as appropriate. I was trying to understand Prakash S. Bagga ji's repeated references to "Gur - Guru" so tried to search for myself to clarify in my mind.
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1-ie`k[ E-EAM[ > -kwr[
‘E’ sMsik®q dw Sbd hY[ Amr koS Anuswr ies dy iqMn ArQ hn:-
(1) vyd Awid Drm-pusqkW dy ArMB Aqy A^Ir ivc, Ardws jW iksy piv~qr Drm-kwrj dy ArMB ivc A`Kr 'EN' piv~qr A`Kr jwx ky vriqAw jWdw hY[
(2) iksy hukm jW pRSn Awidk dy au~qr ivc Awdr Aqy siqkwr nwl ‘jI hW’ AwKxw[ so, ‘EN’ dw ArQ hY 'jI hW'[
(3) EN-bRhm[
iehnW ivcoN ikhVw ArQ ies Sbd dw ie`Qy ilAw jwxw hY-ies ƒ idRVH krn leI Sbd 'EN' dy pihlW '1' ilK id`qw hY[ ies dw Bwv ieh hY ik ie`Qy 'EN' dw ArQ hY 'auh hsqI jo iek hY, ijs vrgw hor koeI nhIN hY Aqy ijs ivc ieh swrw jgq smw jWdw hY['
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.
Based on the above Sikhism is in concert with atheism if one God envisioned in Sikhism is not classed a deity, which it cannot be since it is recognized as pervasive and present in everything in the universe known or unknown. What is present in everything is not a deity concept in the traditional sense.
In extreme summary through "Mool Mantar" is a definiton of the general scope of Sikh God being, a single universal truth pervasive without bounds of fear, animosity and time. In a way a very impersonal or extremely fair regardless of consequences (akin to concepts of Universal morality). We do need to recognize also that Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji keeps warning in case we try or attempt the full disclosure of such a truth as that is not achievable. Hence conversely, a Sikh God if not completely definable and is inconsequential, as long its search is or understanding is carried out with that premise to be in unison with the single universal truth foundation.
I think I may have said more than I should and stand corrected/commented.
Sat Sri Akal.
*****************************************************************************************************
Notes: Some perhaps non-thread related material I will delete if not appropriate or put it under a new thread.
Just some thoughts for consideration, comments and correction as appropriate. I was trying to understand Prakash S. Bagga ji's repeated references to "Gur - Guru" so tried to search for myself to clarify in my mind.
PS: Professor Sahib Singh ji's exposition below may be useful per Randip Singh ji's comment,
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‘E’ sMsik®q dw Sbd hY[ Amr koS Anuswr ies dy iqMn ArQ hn:-
(1) vyd Awid Drm-pusqkW dy ArMB Aqy A^Ir ivc, Ardws jW iksy piv~qr Drm-kwrj dy ArMB ivc A`Kr 'EN' piv~qr A`Kr jwx ky vriqAw jWdw hY[
(2) iksy hukm jW pRSn Awidk dy au~qr ivc Awdr Aqy siqkwr nwl ‘jI hW’ AwKxw[ so, ‘EN’ dw ArQ hY 'jI hW'[
(3) EN-bRhm[
iehnW ivcoN ikhVw ArQ ies Sbd dw ie`Qy ilAw jwxw hY-ies ƒ idRVH krn leI Sbd 'EN' dy pihlW '1' ilK id`qw hY[ ies dw Bwv ieh hY ik ie`Qy 'EN' dw ArQ hY 'auh hsqI jo iek hY, ijs vrgw hor koeI nhIN hY Aqy ijs ivc ieh swrw jgq smw jWdw hY['
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