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Should We Serve Alcohol as Guru Ka Langar?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Gurukameet, Jun 14, 2011.

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Can Meat and Alcohol be Served as Guru Ka Langar? (Muliple Selections Possible)

  1. Yes! Any event Serving Meat (Jhatka) can be termed Guru Ka Langar. Why? Please explain.

    24.1%
  2. No! Any event Serving Meat (Jhatka) cannot be termed as Guru Ka Langar. Why? Please explain.

    46.3%
  3. Yes! Any event serving Alcohol/Liquor/Beer can be termed Guru Ka Langar. Why? Please explain.

    1.9%
  4. No! Any event serving Alcohol/Liquor/Beer cannot be termed Guru Ka Langar as it is a Kurehat as per

    72.2%
  5. I Don't Care! Why? Please explain.

    1.9%
  6. Not Sure... Why? Please explain.

    3.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Gurukameet

    Gurukameet
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    Should we serve Alcohol as Guru Ka Lanagar?


    For many celebration is a time of joy , when a moment comes in a family, when there is finally a engagement , wedding, when there is finally a child born. These are times of joy and happiness, and for most people we mark these occasions with seeking blessing from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, we not only seek blessings as a family, but use this opportunity to share with the community our joy. For some in the community. We too have attended shared there joys at weddings and sadness in funerals. So get together as a community. We get together and share langar food, it is an opportunity to meet up old friends to meet with relatives and see how children have grown.
    We do this in a communal setting, Gurdwara, which means the house where the Guru resides. As we enter the Gurdwara we remove our shoes and socks why? Because we do not want to miss any opportunity of not being absorbed in the vibrations of shabads, we absorb the delights of Guru’s keertan we all our beings. We enter and bow to our Guru , why, because we seek Guru Jees blessing. We sit and listen to keertan, and delight in being given blessings by the Gani jees or do we?


    Then we stand in the Ardass and are given the blessings of all the 11 Gurus and listen to the instructions of Guru Jee and are given Hukam Nam Guru Jee is all knowing and without fail perceptive. It is all a wonderful experience to be topped with further delights of purshad and delicious food in the langar hall. Well not if you are expected to go the hall next door where you will be given alcohol and meat.

    This has happened and still happens, and why is it wrong?


    First of all, you are graciously being given blessings, you have experienced the vibrations of Guru Shahads you feel blissful. A particular shabad was played at a programme my mind is full of celebrations, that is important ‘Man Viddiyan’ (apologises I cannot find the full shabad). My mind is congraluted, my mind that houses the 8th gate, that mind which is so important to us that we protect it constantly. That mind which will carry us across to the other side. The mind which is so important in our lives in how we choose to live our life. Oh dears of the beloved, is it not enough to have this blessing?


    Is it not just fulfilling to have these precious moments?


    Why dear beloved, do we then after wards have to consume alcohol? To pollute this gracious mind that we have. To many this is the experience, for many, the Gurdwara is the necessary ritual that needs to be done, before the party and fun begins. Where have we come and gone in Sikhi that we have allowed our children to be empty vessels that need fuel from alcohol, the leaders have failed us dramatically for this to be allowed and continued. The parents that toiled so hard like slaves in this country, have no happiness in there lifes that they feel the need to escape with alcohol, and to bless the community with poison of the mind. As I sat in the hall, next to the Gurdwara, where Guru Ka Langar was served with alcohol and meat, I listened to an old relative I had not seen for years, I gave her my condolences as her brother in law had died of alcohol abuse, she was not bothered, she said it was self inflicted as he had made her sisters and children life’s a misery as an alcoholic. This is very poison that we feed to the Sadh Sangat ?

    ‘Man Vidhidyan’ no these two things are separate and they should be kept separate. The bliss in the mind with Gurus Shabad, is not the same bliss you experience with alcohol, alcohol causes violence, causes deaths while driving, causes families to break up, keeps doctors in jobs all night with stitching people up, a job they don’t relish. This is not the blessing that our Gurus would give us, so should we be celebrating in this style?
     
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  3. spnadmin

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    Re: To celebrate or not?

    If what you describe was a wedding celebration, in a hall next to the Gurdwara set aside for social occasions, then you were not at Guru Ka Langar. You were at a wedding party. If there were no alcohol or meat, it would still be a party, not Guru Ka Langar.
     
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  4. Gurukameet

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    Re: To celebrate or not?

    It was not a wedding party, but a programme, the programme listed on the card, Guru Ka Langar would be served, which it was at the hall next door.
     
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  5. spnadmin

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    Re: To celebrate or not?

    Ok We need that clarification. I am however suspicious that be it a programme, one can simply call something Guru ka Langar. Le t's see what the responses are like.
     
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  6. Gurukameet

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    Re: To celebrate or not?

    Why are you suspicious? It was a kurmai, to be more precise.
     
  7. Gurukameet

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    Re: To celebrate or not?

    Kuramai is pre-engagement programme from the grooms side, where the bride family come with fruits etc..at the Gurdwara.

    For my clarification? Spnadmin you believe it is acceptable to have meat and alcohol served as Guru Ka Langar??
     
  8. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Re: To celebrate or not?

    Dear Gurukameet Ji

    I respect the fact you practise abstinence and are a vegatarian.
    If the party was in a separate hall and follows on from the Holy Service that's fairly normal of panjabi culture .If a man drinks one or two beers with his meal on a special occasion thats not immoral is it?But to judge others might not be even amoral. Some might drink alot but be honest,others might abstain but be less honest. Todays drinker might be an abstainer tommorow and vice versa.
    ps I love the way Admin are suspicous of misleading statements and rightly so!
     
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  9. Gurukameet

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    Re: To celebrate or not?

    OK, you are saying that to serve alcohol as Guru ka Langar is perfectly normal and not misleading because it is part of Punjabi culture??

    I am a bit surprised to be honest. I think it is unlikely that SPN is supported by Guinness, but I may be wrong.

    This issue I was trying to raise is it acceptable to serve alcohol as Guru Ka langar? The consensus here is that it is?

    As Langar is given to everyone, regardless of gender and caste, I presume it would be acceptable as female to drink as well? But that's not part of Punjabi culture.
     
  10. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Re: To celebrate or not?

    Dear Gurukameet Ji

    No that's not what I said ,what I meant to say, sorry if it was not clear, is if it is in a separate Hall and after the Gurdwara Service ,then it should not be referred to as "Guru Ka Langar" .
    Be patient there is no consensus yet ,just me trying to discuss it with you,to me even the title of this thread is misleading ,because what you have issue with is not celebrating but indulgence.
     
  11. Ishna

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    Re: To celebrate or not?

    What is "Guru Ka Langar"?

    Wikipedia: Langar (Punjabi: ਲੰਗਰ, Hindi: लंगर) is the term used in the Sikh religion for free food, served in a Gurdwara.

    I'm a little short on time but I'd love to get some better sources.

    They might have called it Guru Ka Langar on the card, but that doesn't make it Guru Ka Langar. I think by the very presence of meat and alcohol, and that it wasn't held at the Gurdwara automatically disqualifies it as Guru Ka Langar.

    Unfortunately the number of people who listen, learn, believe and act accordingly are few. Most people just want to have a good time, and don't take the time or give attention to the details and dare I say, the "correct" way of doing things. I will put myself out there and say the people who held the party, by calling the food Guru Ka Langar, are misguided.

    If they want to party with meat and alcohol that's their porogative and I will not pass judgement on them for it. But misappropriating an important concept like Guru Ka Langar is damaging to the youth and community as a whole.
     
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  12. Admin Singh

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    Re: To celebrate or not?

    In reply to your question, spnadmin in its first reply clearly stated SPN's stand on the issue and this is just to reconfirm: Serving alcohol/liquor/beer in any event and calling it "Guru Ka Langar" is not appropriate and most likely reflects an ignorance or a mischief on the part of the organizer of the event, hence the suspicion.

    I think you interpreted the above comment all wrong, spnadmin is suspicious as to the motive behind calling a event or a programme "Guru Ka Langar" not that it is ok to call any event/program serving alcohol "Guru Ka Langar".

    And then at the same time, SPN members are entitled to their own opinions. But this does not under any circumstances mean SPN supports their views.

    As spnadmin said "Let's see what the responses are like." this does not mean to endorse any particular point of view.

    I hope this clears some of the confusion caused by the ambiguity in the first post.

    Gurfateh!

    :)
     
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  13. spnadmin

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    Re: To celebrate or not?

    Aman ji That was exactly my point as you put it 100 percent. Thank you. I was trying to get to the bottom of the event. I was not making a declaration but asking how the event became title Guru Ka Langar in the first place when none of the circumstances seemed to fit. :happykudi:

    For example, may I hold a party at a local park, near a gurdwara, and invite everyone. Serve veg and no alcohol and call it Guru ka Langar?
     
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  14. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Re: To celebrate or not?

    Each and Every SIKH ....is instructed to give a LOUD HAIL....Guru Ka Langgar Tyaar Hai..Snagat is welcome to JOIN IN. This was the Practice...sadly no longer in common as SIKHS have become MORE "malik Bhago" ( Bloo.d oozing form his 36 food spread feast)..and LESS "Bhai LALO" ( milk oozing out of crude roti made from cheap baajra seeds)
    GURU NANAK ALWAYS chose to stay with and eat form Bhai LALOs Langgar...BUT MOST SIKHS today wont even take a second look at a Bhai lalo type of langgar of plain Daal roti (still a THOUSAND times better than the one GURU Nnanak Ji ate..BUT PLAIN and TASTELESS to US..His SIKHS !! How times have changed ??? )

    Anyway I digress.. What I menat to stress is that EACH SIKH HOME is supposed to be a GURU KA LANGGAR..simply to show that its HIS GIFT...the Christians have ONE DAY..of THANKSGIVING...to celebrate His GIFT of FOOD..Guru nanak ji taught us SIKHS to have this THANKSGIVING 3 times a DAY !! GURU KA LANGGAR !! Food to SHARE with the NEEDY....as time went by..SIKHS have delegated this RESPONSIBILITY to the Cllective..GURDWARA....so Gurdwaras took over this JOB of Providing Guru Ka Langgar 24/7.....time went by..even Giurdwaras stopped....and ONLY a few carry on the 24/7 Guru ka Langgar Concept...
    Time went by..SIKHS...got BORED with SEWA..and began to CATER....FARMOUT the cooking/distribution....no more Honest Labour..no more sewa..no more any RELIGIOUS FEELINGS..just plain.."get it over with mentality....feed the masses..and get it over with..lets go back to making more money..so next time we can CATER more variety..and get more Balleh balleh !!..EVEN GURDWARAS fell into this trap...recently in Malaysia a GURDWARA ran a MEDIA Campaign...for a "Guru ka Langgar with 500 dishes on the menu...a Guru ka Langgar with the BIGGEST Laddoo..Biggest Pratha...Largest Chapattii..etc etc to enter the Guiness Book of RECORDS !! The Parbhandaks (mostly clean shaven who dont know a word of Gurbani and can harldy speak Punjabi etc etc)..are still at IT....
    Now a days.."wise" Sikhs will Call ahead to the various Gurdwaras in town..."SO WHAT dishes are you having in your Gurdwara Guru ka Langgar today..Ji ?? And who attends what Gurdwara depends on the FOOD/DISHES !! People TWITTER others..This Gurdwara is just plain daal roti..avoid it..go to that Gurdwara..kheer..yoghurt..jalebis..etc etc..SANT BABAS take out Media ads..Jalebi Langgar...Barfi langgar..!!! My Gurdwara..Chinese Food..Mine..South Indian cuisine...that one mughal Dishes..karrahi paneer..etc etc...are NORMAL SIKH CONVERSATIONS...
     
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  15. Kanwaljit Singh

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    Re: To celebrate or not?

    If there is a hall serving alcohol, then the whole entering Gurudwara, listening to Kirtan part may not happen at all!

    Alcohol helps us in shedding inhibitions and celebrating to the max. Ya I may be a minor addict.

    When kid is less than 10 years of age, he is too young to learn 'mature' concepts of Sikhi. When he is 10-17 oh he has to top in his class and become entrance test cracker. 18-23 strive hard in university and get best job. 24+ and with job, I don't have time for Paath or Gurudwara, let me enjoy drink with friends.

    Thousands of people die all the time and we think we are going to live forever. There is no fear of death and no fear of addiction, wasting your life away by erasing your existence in those moments of indulgence.

    Sadly most of the habits of a person are based on the company he keeps. If the society is falling from grace, they would rather take everyone along. That is why we have always stressed the importance of Sangat.

    One beer loving person in Gursikh sangat can't do anything. But one teetotaler in drinking company falls most of the time.

    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki Fateh ji
     
  16. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Re: To celebrate or not?

    YOU MAY..and you can call it Guur Ka Langgar IF it fulfills the criteria...HONEST LABOUR...SEWA..RELIGIOUS FERVOUR...Kirt karo..Waand Chhako..Naam jappo...The "finaces" must come from KIRT.....the food is prepared..served..as a SEWA..with Love..and respect...and equality...without distinction..and "naam Jappo" aspect is by example..and voluntary...effort be made that most feel that way (Thanksgiving mood).
    Any and all FOOD as allowed to a SIKH (srm)..and financed from ones KIRT honest labour, prepared with genuine love sewa in mind..CAN BE TERMED GURU KA LANGGAR. The "MENU" is not a criteria to judge.

    2. AFTER having virtually forced all "Gurdwaras" to have Vegetarian food under Guru Ka Langgar label...via arguments that its because everyone and sundry comes to Gurdwara and as such food served must cater to all..even when the SRM clearly makes a provision for NON-HALLAL as ALLOWED...
    Some over zealous ones among us are carrying over that "closed concept" over to even PICNICS..birthday parties..wedding parties etc..which are NOT "religious" and to which the people invited are NOT the "Gurdwara Sangat"......and SGGS is NOT Parkash or present.

    3. Meat is ALLOWED as long as its NOT "Hallal"..BUT ALCOHOL in nay forma nd substance is STRICTLY PROHIBITED and is one of the KUREHITS.
    Over zealous Sikhs have LUMPED Alcohol and "meat" together...which is NOT the RIGHT WAY.....even if argued that wheres theres "meat theres alcohol !! its NOT always the case...a it will be BEST if BOTH meat and alcohol are avoided..BUT its not right to lump them both in the same basket. Forcing the issue leads to talibanism accusations.
     
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  17. spnadmin

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    Re: To celebrate or not?

    Gyani ji

    This is the crux of the answer for me. Others may disagree. Thanks so much
     
  18. Gurukameet

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    The overall growing consensus in UK is that it is wrong to serve alcohol and meat in Gurdwara premises, whether there is Guru Granth Sahib is there or not as the sangat has brought the premises and it is anti-Sikh to serve alcohol. I appreciate some administrators of SPN may disagree and feel it should be allowed, in a separate hall, but these people are a growing minority. Sikhi consciousness is growing and I hope it will continue to grow, so that all the other rubbish serving in Gurdwara is kept to a minimum.

    As Sikhs we should eat little and sleep little.

    There comes a time when as individuals we should take steps to ensure that others are not mislead and misguided, by authorities. I will write a very polite letter to the Gurdwara and request that they stop serving alcohol in Gurdwara premises and explain in detail why it is wrong. Gainis/authorities no longer hold knowledge on Sikhi as knowledge is so widely available and people gratefully are learning.

    Guru Ka Langar sometimes in my opinion manifested itself at church gatherings or local community groups where people of all colours, castes and religion share very simple food, without the risk of disease that over indulgence in rich foods brings, and many Gurdwaras are guilty of this. I agree.
     
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  19. Archived_member14

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    Re: To celebrate or not?

    Spnadmin ji,


    Are you saying that it is OK to serve meat in the Gurdwara? Does it not make a difference to you if this discourages Sikhs who are vegetarians and also Namdharis, Radha Soamis, Hindus and Jains who otherwise like to come to the Gurdwara, from coming as often as they like? And if the meat served is non-halal, would this not also put Muslims off?

    I believe that limiting the menu to vegetarian food only is good and practical in every way.
     
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  20. Ishna

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    When I've been at church gatherings the fare has been sugary biscuits, or sugary cakes and things. Community groups I've been to much of the same, if not moreso!

    I've only had simple langar, we usually have roti, daal and sabhji (don't know how to spell it... spiced vegetables) with yoghurt which has those cute little crispy ball things in it (I'm white so they give me lots of yoghurt, hahaha else I get a runny nose!), and plain salad. There's usually kheer.

    I've heard people talk about their turn to do langar is coming up and they're going to get a chef to do the cooking, or have it catered. But I like the langar when the sangat does it, when the aunties come up and ask you to make sure you come on the weekend and help rinse, chop and cook. Always tastes better and it really does wonders for the soul getting together in the kitchen and cooking. I just wish my sangat would jaap something while working. At Sikh camp, when it was our teams turn to do langar seva, we would jaap "satnam waheguru" for most of the time and it gets delightfully hypnotic.
     
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  21. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Dear Confused Ji

    I agree cooking meat would put off vegatarians,and the opposite does not really apply so better leave things as they are.

    (No disrespect to Giani Ji though)
     

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