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Sehajdharis seek separate SGPC if voting right denied

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by kds1980, Apr 12, 2010.

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Do You Think the Idea of a Separate SGPC for Sehajdhari Sikhs Practical? Please share your views.

  1. Yes!

    10.5%
  2. No!

    84.2%
  3. Not Sure!

    5.3%
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  1. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Ludhiana Stories

    Sehajdharis seek separate SGPC if voting right denied
    Our Correspondent

    Jagraon, April 11
    The national executive council of the Sehajdhari Sikh Federation (SSF), a political party registered with the Election Commission of India, has decided to form a separate SGPC for ‘Patits’ and Sehajdhari Sikhs as they have been denied voting right in the SGPC elections.

    Condemning the new definition of the Sikh given by the High Court, SSF leaders stated that the fanatic attitude of the SGPC and the Delhi Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee the Sikh religion had been confined to the ‘keshdharis’ and ‘amritdharis’ only.

    Spokesperson of the federation Balwant Dhaliwal stated that the World Sikh Conference at Delhi was merely an eyewash of the Sarna brothers where 85 per cent of the Sikh population had been ignored by declaring them ‘Patits’ and non-Sikhs.

    ‘If a person who trims his beard is not a Sikh, a person who colours his /her hairs is not a Sikh who goes to the beauty parlour is not a Sikh, who consumes alcohol is not a Sikh, then who is left behind to be called a Sikh’, questioned the SSF leaders.

    The SSF council stated that after the Haryana, Rajasthan SGPC was formed and after that a few so-called Sikhs have formed an All-India SGPC but all of them have ignored the Sehajdhari Sikhs. They stated that the persons born in Sikh families who does not keep unshorn hairs or trim their beards cannot be called ‘Patit’ as it is applicable for those thrown out of religion and those who commit transgressions after par taking amrit of the 10th Guru.

    Labeling non- amritdhari as the ‘patits’ and non-Sikhs has divided the religion. Sikh religion, which is already in minority, has been divided into a sub-minority by this definition of the Sikh.
     
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  3. jasbirkaleka

    jasbirkaleka India
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    :khanda3:The SGPC and other such other Sikh Organisations are proving to be the worst enemy of their own They are doing a great a dis-service to the most modern and rational religion of the world.Tsk.tsk.Going to the courts to defne who is a Sikh.What a great idea.What next?
    And lo, the Hindus are so happy to see the Sikhs redused to such a minuscule minority:disgustedmunda:.
     
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  4. harbansj24

    harbansj24
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    Jasbirkaleka ji,

    The Punjab and Haryana High Court gave a definition of who is a Sikh only for the purpose of governance.
    Now if you did not have such a definition, then anybody can claim to be Sikh and then enjoy preferred admission into Sikh minority institutes, vote in the gurudwara elections etc. Sikhism being such an open and inclusive religion, anyone can declare himself to be Sikh without being questioned.
    So then how would you differentiate between a Sikh and a non Sikh for such purposes?:confusedmunda:
     
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  5. ac_marshall

    ac_marshall
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    Why would Hindus be happy? What have they got to do with the internal politics of Sikh Organizations? Is there a single Gurudwara that Hindus don't visit? Most Hindus and other communities don't even know who are Sehajdharis and Amritdharis. All that most of the people of other Indian communities know is that a Sikh is called "Sardarji" who maintains unshorn hair, beard and wears a turban and that he is the most appealing member in India's Armed Forces. Why would Hindus, Christians or Muslims even bother about knowing who are Sehajdharis?



     
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  6. ballym

    ballym
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    Why should there be a reservation in educational system? Give them free education but never compromise on quality.
    If Gurudwaras are really for everyone then what is the problem if a person visiting it regularly votes( and does not have hairs) in its election. Criteria should be active , constructive involvement.
    If some unwanted person is still able to vote, then it is some problem with eligibility mechanism which can be corrected.
    Simply keeping hairs is should not be a criteria. Right now, that is practically the criteria. I respect you are a great scholar.... please suggest a different method other than length of hairs.
    Real intellectuals like you can only bring a change. And a change is a must .... otherwise it may be too late.
     
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  7. ballym

    ballym
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    I guess you are unaware of religious black market( I have coined this phrase just now! Copyright :) ) .There are so many agencies who are interested in getting a piece of sikh population folllowing their Guru. Hindus are definitely one of them. Why should they state that sikhs are just a part of hindus. They do it time and again.
    Why a Christian clergy had to do when he offered me to convert? It did happen. What is your motive in being so naive? Are you really ignorant about the questions you have asked? Read related threads on this forum to get information instead of asking simple questions.
    You have stated MOST. SO how many bad apple does it takes to create problem. Muslims say that MOST of them are peace loving!
     
  8. ac_marshall

    ac_marshall
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    Gurfateh,
    The only thing I've tried to convey is that internal conflict among Sehajdharis and Amritdharis cannot benefit either christians, hindus or muslims.

    With members of each group (Amritdhari and Sehajdhari) sticking to their argument of being true Sikhs, how can an external religion derive benefit? Both are strong and clear in their arguement that they are "Sikhs". Had the RSS or VHP got support of Sikh leaders, Hindu organizations would definitely feel happy. But here the matter is within the Sikh community with neither Christians, Muslims nor Hindus in picture.

    I totally agree with you about the mass prosyletizing activities undertaken by Christian missionaries and about Hindu organizations claiming Sikhs to be a part of Hinduism. But, I don't find anything in the conflict internal to Sikhism that would benefit Hinduism, Christianity or Islam.

    -Regards:
    Adam Marshall
     
  9. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Reservations in India are necessary if you want your community to become prosperous.Many of you living outside India have no knowledge how much difference is their between lives of Urban metro people,small town people and rural people.As majority of sikhs are living in rural area's there is hardly any chance for them to compete with urban metro people.

    Merit in education not only comes from hard work but also from money and family conditions
    .If your parents can afford you very expensive coaching institutes and totally plan your career then its very easy for those people to enter top level universities.On the other hand you are from rural area with family and financial problems then even if you are better than an urban person you cannot make it to top level university
     
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  10. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Ballym ji,

    Guru fateh.

    As long as there is a caste system in India where not all are considered equal, this reservation will exist and is must. As Kanwardeep pointed out quite correctly that most of the Sikhs live in the rural areas of India and have no means to educate their kids. So, in order for the Sikhs to have the opportunity to excel, this decision by the High court is necessary.

    As you live in Canada, you must be aware of the Affirmative Action south of your border in the US which helped many people even some of them became the Judges of the Supreme Court and one is still there.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  11. PCJ

    PCJ
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    Here is a catch-22. Religion can not survive without differentiating people but religion becomes unGodly once it starts differentiating.

    Here is a perfect example: You remember Bhagat Kabir said: ek noor te sabh jag upjeya kaun bhalay kau manday? Also one of your gurus said: na ko vairi nehi begaana sagal sang hum ko ban aayi.

    So what it means is that a true believer in the Almighty Lord doesn't see people different from each other. But at the same time though, if people of religion do not differentiate, anybody can take over religious places. That's why, out of fear of someone else taking over religious places, the people of religion have to differentiate and as soon as religion starts differentiating, it becomes unGodly.
     
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  12. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Religions like sikhism also do lot of sewa even to non sikhs.Hundreds of Gurdwara serve Free langars,There are thousands of sikh schools and college's where non sikh students study and they are not asked to convert to sikhism.Despite lot of shortcoming in Religions
    many religions still do sewa.May I ask you self styled religion haters what you are doing on Ground level except talking and ranting .
     
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  13. PCJ

    PCJ
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    Stating facts is not hatred...

    You may not be prepared to accept the truth. This however does not mean that nobody should state truth.

    Think about this. Those who achieved higher state of mind than us stated that all people were equal and same. In other words, those who are closer to Lord state that then all are created equal. It's pretty simple.

    Therefore, one of the signs that someone is closer to Lord than others is that he or she doesn't even look at people differently. The opposite of this is that those are farther away from Lord actually do look at people differently. They do discriminate...

    This is not because I say so. This is so because it obviously is God's Law.

    As far as people in Sikh schools go, 100% of the seats allowed by the Gov't. to be reserved for Sikhs are reserved for Amritdhari and sehajdhari Sikhs.

    You have to realize that in spirituality, what matters is the state of soul. Those, who have any reason at all to discriminate, can not claim that their soul is in the state of perfection. So, everything becomes useless, wheather it's so-called sewa or anything else.
     
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  14. narenem

    narenem
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    i agree
     
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  15. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Again as usual ranting. You believe what you are speaking is the truth so it
    must be truth.Same as a muslim say that What i am speaking about the islam is the truth.Is there any difference between you and fanatic muslim?Both Believe they are speaking the truth

    As far reservation is concerned Only 50% of seats are reserved for sikh students and that too in technical and medical college's.In schools there is hardly any reservation and in many non sikh area's a very large majority of students are sikhs.My mamaji himself is Gurdwara president in small town of Assam and the school they run their benefits assamese kids.Your blaming about 100% seats reserved only show how ignorant you are.
     
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  16. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Kanwardeep ji

    The vast majority of people born in the US do not understand the "reservation" system that is built into the Indian constitution. So they do not understand how this system actually works against Sikhs in areas where Sikhs are in the majority. Although in the US we have affirmative action (a way to boost minorities who have experienced historical discrimination) we do not have what is exactly a system of quotas or set-asides which would operate more the way reservations do in India. In fact recently quota systems used by universities have been struck down in the US, and also formulas used by universities to calculate percentages for various groups. There have been major court cases related to this.

    So it would be great if you could take a moment to explain how reservations work.

    Note: in the US private companies may set quotas if they choose to, but under Bakke v. Regents that public universities (and other government institutions) could not set specific numerical targets based on race for admissions or employment.<sup id="cite_ref-.2770s_242_1-5" class="reference"></sup>
     
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  17. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Narayanjot ji

    In India Dr ambedkar made a provision of reservation in College's as well as in jobs For Dalits as tribe's.of 22.5%.Unfortunately with the time it became a political tool in the hands
    politicians.Later on India extended this reservation to Backward communities which are called OBCs.Now many communities despite being financially succesful are enjoying this reservation just because they have political numbers.In many states day by day quota
    is increasing despite supreme court order that reservation should no exceed 50%

    Now coming to minorities Like sikhs,christians muslims.They are entitled a special right that if they open a college then they can reserve 50% seats for their community.Now sikh institutions are running some medical and engineering college's .A reserved seat in those college's is very valuable.As large majority of sikhs are in general category it is necessary for us to have more good sikh college's as no reservation is provided to sikhs in Govt college's
     
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  18. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    I also like to point out that Sikhs open very large number of schools in India where there is no reservation for sikh students and very large number of students are non sikhs and unlike Christians who openly try to purchase faith of students by asking them that if they convert their whole or partial fee's will be waived sikh schools never do That
     
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  19. jasi

    jasi
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    WAHE GURU JI KA KHALSA ,WAHE GURU JI KI FATEH.

    Now here we go again defining . Who is Sikh?

    Already divided community will be further divided and put against each others.

    Sikh means follower of truth and Guru Nanak dev Ji's preachings to make one's life easy to pass through youth and GRASTI MARG yet stay completely dedicated to Akal Purkh.

    SIKH CAN BE ANY ONE WITHOUT ANY COLORS OR ORIGINS,CAST ,OR SPECIAL DRESS OR WITHOUT TURBANS OR WITHOUT ANY RITUALS,WITHOUT ANY SPECIAL GARBS.

    THERE ARE MILLIONS OF SINDHIES ,MUSLIM OTHERS ARE CALLED SIKHS ,MEANS THE STUDENTS OF TRUTH AND BABA GURU NANAK DEV JI TEACHINGS.

    HOPE THIS SHOULD BE UNDERSTOOD ONCE FOR ALL TIMES.

    THAT IS WHAT I LEARNED FROM MY CHILDHOOD.

    NOW COMES THE KHALSA AND TURBAN ISSUE ONE IS FREE TO BE AMRITDHARI SIKH AND SINGH AT THE SAME TIME WITHOUT CRITICIZING ANY ONE 'S CHOICE. BECAUSE ANY ONE HAVE A FAITH OR LEARNING GURU NANAK DEV JI'S TEACHING IS GURU' SIKH.

    ONE CAN NOT RESTRICT TO CERTAIN DRESS TO BE CALLED HIMSELF AS A SIKH . SIKH OF WHAT ?. SIKHISM AS UNIVERSAL FAITH TO BE FOLLOWED BY ALL AND ALL WILL BE CALLED SIKHS OF TRUTH FOLLOWERS OF GURU NANA DEV JI'S TEACHING AND PREACHINGS.

    Guru Gobind Singh created a khalsa with certain visible changes and created a Sant Sepahi according to the situations existed at that time.


    Singh(Tiger) was added with first name without any cast back ground to give the final touch to the foundations of oneness laid by Shri Guru Nanak Dev Ji. by eradicating the cast system.


    let the wist dome play roles to give as much as MAT to respect each others and spread Gi uru nanak deve Ji univesal tecahing to all over the world without critsizing based on cast system for fut rther divisons

    Let us shun EGO and HAUME.

    JASPI




     
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  20. Rupinder.Singh

    Rupinder.Singh Australia
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    Every now and then these issues creep up....and real motive behind all these issues is nothing but love for leadership.

    And Easiest leadership comes pre-embedded with "Divide and Rule" policy.

    Religion has nothing to do with these issues, and to solve these problems nothing more is required than common sense.

    but as someone said, "There are millions of scamps around, but I have not met a single one who accepts it"

    Here are my few cents:

    First one:

    1. A person born in a Doctor Family is not a doctor unless he/she himself achieves the medical degree and Most importantly practices it.

    And the whole process is as follows

    Education > Degree > Practice


    So is a Sikh.

    "Without Education, Degree and Practice no-one is a Sikh."


    Second One:

    2. To have more doctors, we obiviously need to educate more people with medical degrees and thus give them a chance to practice, and the easy candidate for it are youngs born in Doctor families

    But as these young ones are already born in Doctor families, they have started considering themselves doctors (SehajDhari Doctors) without need of any education, degree or practice, just because they know that simple flu can be cured with xyz tablets.

    So they dont want to Go thorugh the tough process of

    Education > Degree > Practice

    but still want themselves to be addressed with title of "Doctor Sahb"

    This state of mind is called as "state of Fear"

    and it is my opinion that "Sehajdhari Sikhs" are one of those kids born in (or somehow related to) Sikh families, who are fearfull to Go through the well established process of

    Education > Degree > Practice of sikh phylosophy

    but still want themsleves to be considered Sikhs



    3. Now Will a person without a doctoral Degree, Education or experience , be allowed to talk/vote on the international Conference on Some medical research...


    Answer to above question will probably shed light on the answer to the issue at hand.


    4. And whoever came up with the term "Sehajdhari Sikhs" in the first place, I believe, did not even know the definition of "Being a true Sikh", but he/she surely might have heard about Easy leadership policy somewhere.


    5. In the end I would say I am not being critical of so called Sehajdhari Sikhs, but I wont support anyone who says education, degree and practice are not necessary to become a doctor.

    "Dont make any decisions just to increase the quantity of Doctors, make decisions that lead to quality doctors who can really save lives"

    "It is quality that matters, not quantity"

    Dont Shun System to win support, Work towards getting support for the system.

    God Is one...Humanity is above all religions...
     
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  21. Gurmit Singh

    Gurmit Singh United States
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    Waheguru jee ka Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh

    Very First Stanza of Japp Jee Sahib advises us daily:

    "Hukam Razaai Chalnaa Nanak Likhiya Naal".

    A Sikh must lead his/her life under God's Divine Command.
    Hair are God's gift both for Females and Males and as such
    we must take care just like other Body Parts.

    The Sikh Gurdwaras Act 1925 has also prescribed Form to
    declare that I am a Keshadhari Sikh; do not trim or shave
    my beard or Keshas; do not smoke or use Kutha (Halal)
    meat, in any form; do not take alcoholic drinks; and am
    not a Patit. *Patit means a person, who being Keshadhari
    Sikh trims or shaves his beard or Keshas or who after
    taking Amrit commits anyone or more of the Four Kurahits...

    The Sikh Reht Maryada, 1945 and the Sikh Ardaas remind
    us to maintain unshorn Hair, beard, moustaches, eyebrows.

    On 30 May 2009, A Full Bench of the Punjab and Haryana
    High Court had delivered Judgement that "maintaining hair
    unshorn is an essential component of the Sikh religion."

    If any doubt representative Photo of a Sehajdhari reproduced
    at page 693 of Mahan Kosh (in Punjabi) - Encyclopaedia of
    Sikh Literature by Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha, available since
    1930 may be seen.

    Let Dr. Harbans Lal of USA and his other associated Patits
    may do whatever they like. I am sure the Court will term
    them as Sehajdhari Hindus so that they are free to shave/
    trim/cut their hair and read Bhagwat Geetta or Ramayan
    including Veds and Manu Samiriti for elevating their lives.


    Gurmit Singh (Australia)
     
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