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Salvation/ liberation/ ਜੀਵਨ–ਮੁਕਤੁ

Discussion in 'Spiritual Articles' started by vsgrewal48895, Apr 10, 2009.

  1. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
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    SALVATION/ LIBERATION/ ਜੀਵਨ–ਮੁਕਤੁ


    ABSTRACT


    Salvation is a state of poise reached through the stage of enlightenment. It is the end in itself for a serious seeker of spirituality. Mukti stands for final liberation from cycle of birth and death with out transparency and proof of its validity. Teachings contained in Sabd Guru define liberation in the phrase “Dead while Alive” (ਜੀਵਨ-ਮੁਕਤੁ) and that state cannot be described as stated by Guru Amardas in Raag Bilawal;

    ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਜਿਸੁ ਏਕ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਸਦਾ ਰਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਲੇ॥ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਗਹਣ ਗਤਿ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਸਚੈ ਆਪਿ ਸਵਾਰੇ॥

    So jan mukaṯ jis ėk liv lāgī saḏā rahai har nālė. Ŧin kī gahaṇ gaṯ kahī na jā¬ī sacẖai āp savārė.

    He alone is liberated, who lovingly focuses on Akal Purkh, always dwelling with It in his heart. His depth and condition cannot be described being embellished by The True Akal Purkh Itself. -----Guru Amardas, Raag Bilawal, AGGS, Page, 796-19

    ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਬਿਦਿਆ ਬਿਗਿਆਨਿ ॥ ਜਿਹਵਾ ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਸਾਦਿ ਲਭਾਨਾ ॥

    Mukaṯ nahī biḏi­ā bigi­ān. Jihvā inḏrī sāḏ lobẖānā.

    Liberation does not come from learning without discernment, as the tastes of the tongue and sex organs lures one of the path.-----Guru Nanak, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 903-14

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    Emancipation is liberation from ignorance, illusion, doubt, duality, ego, and or dying in to the Word, or awakening to the teachings. It is the evolvement of a state of equipose with complete tranquility of mind, while still alive Jeevan-Mukat (ਜੀਵਨ-ਮੁਕਤੁ) as expressed in Sabd Guru:

    ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਤਾਂ ਏਕ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਏ ॥ ਅਚਰੁ ਚਰੈ ਤਾਂ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਏ ॥ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਮਨਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਸਾਏ ॥

    Sabaḏ marai ṯāʼn ėk liv lā¬ė, Acẖar cẖarai ṯāʼn bẖaram cẖukā¬ė,Jīvan mukaṯ man nām vasā¬ė.

    By dying in to the Word comes absorption in the One Akal Purkh. By consuming the evils hard to overcome removes all doubts. By lodging the Naam in the mind attains liberation while living. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 412-17

    ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਜਾਗੇ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਪਰਹਾਰੀ ॥ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਜਾਗਿ ਰਹੇ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ ॥ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਗਤਿ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਪਾਈ ॥

    Gurmaṯ jāgė ḏurmaṯ parhārī, An¬ḏin jāg rahė liv lā¬ī, Jīvan mukaṯ gaṯ anṯar pā¬ī.

    Awakening to the Guru's Teachings, evil-mindedness is taken away. Remaining awake and aware night and day, lovingly focused on the Akal Purkh, one becomes Jivan Mukta - liberated while yet alive, and finds this state deep within him self. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 904-4

    ਜਰਾ ਜੋਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਈ ਸਚਿ ਰਹੈ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਸੋ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਹਉਮੈ ਜਾਇ ॥

    Jarā johi na sak¬ī sacẖ rahai liv lā¬ė, Jīvan mukaṯ so ākẖī¬ai jis vicẖahu ha¬umai jā¬ė.

    Old age cannot torment one who remains lovingly absorbed in the True Akal Purkh. He alone is called Jivan-Mukta, liberated while yet alive; from within whom egotism is eradicated. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 1009-19

    ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਮਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਵੈ ਸੋਇ ॥

    Āp pacẖẖāṇai man nirmal ho¬ė, Jīvan mukaṯ har pāvai so¬ė.

    By realizing the self, mind is purified; such a person attains absorption in to Akal Purkh while living -----Guru Amardas, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 161-10

    ਜਿਸੁ ਲਾਗੀ ਪੀਰ ਪਿਰੰਮ ਕੀ ਸੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਜਰੀਆ ॥ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਸੋ ਆਖੀਐ ਮਰਿ ਜੀਵੈ ਮਰੀਆ ॥

    Jis lāgī pīr piramm kī so jāṇai jarī¬ā.Jīvan mukaṯ so ākẖī¬ai mar jīvai marī¬ā.

    Only those who feel the pain of this love know how to endure it. Those who remain dead while yet alive are said to be liberated while yet alive.-----Guru Ramdas, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 449-2

    ਜੋ ਇਸੁ ਮਾਰੇ ਸੁ ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤਾ ॥ ਜੋ ਇਸੁ ਮਾਰੇ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਜੁਗਤਾ ॥

    Jo is mārė so jīvan mukṯā, Jo is mārė ṯis kī nirmal jugṯā.

    One who kills duality is liberated while yet alive. One who kills this lives a pure lifestyle. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 238-4 & 5

    ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਆਗਿਆ ਆਤਮ ਹਿਤਾਵੈ ॥ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਸੋਊ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥

    Parabẖ kī āgi¬ā āṯam hiṯāvai, Jīvan mukaṯ so¬ū kahāvai.

    One, who, in his conscience, loves the Will of God, is said to be liberated while yet alive. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 275-4

    ਮਾਨ ਮੋਹ ਦੋਨੋ ਕਉ ਪਰਹਰਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਕੇ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਵੈ ॥ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥

    Mān moh ḏono ka¬o parhar gobinḏ kė gun gāvai, Kaho Nānak ih biḏẖ ko parānī jīvan mukaṯ kahāvai.

    One who abandons both pride and attachment, and sings the Glorious Praises of the Akal Purkh, is the way by which he is said to be liberated during life, says Nanak
    -----Guru Tegh Bahadur, Raag Bilawal, AGGS, Page, 831-2

    ਜੀਵਤ ਮੁਕਤ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਲਾਗੇ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਸਦ ਜਾਗੇ ॥

    Jīvaṯ mukaṯ gurmaṯī lāgė, Har kī bẖagaṯ an¬ḏin saḏ jāgė.

    Those who are attached to the Guru's Teachings are liberated while yet alive. They remain forever awake and aware night and day, in devotional worship of the Akal Purkh. -----Guru Amardas, Raag Malar, AGGS, Page, 1262-1 & 2

    ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰੈ ਮਰੈ ਫੁਨਿ ਜੀਵੈ ਐਸੇ ਸੁੰਨਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥

    Jīvaṯ marai marai fun jīvai aisė sunn samā¬i¬ā.

    One, who remains dead while yet alive, will live even after death; thus he merges into the Primal Void of the Absolute Akal Purkh. -----Kabir, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 332-16

    ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਹੁ ਮਰਹੁ ਫੁਨਿ ਜੀਵਹੁ ਪੁਨਰਪਿ ਜਨਮੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੋ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਨੇ ਸੁੰਨ ਰਹਿਆ ਲਿਵ ਸੋਈ ॥

    Jīvaṯ marahu marahu fun jīvhu punrap janam na ho¬ī, Kaho Kabīr jo nām samānė sunn rahi¬ā liv so¬ī.

    Die while yet alive, and by so dying, be alive; thus you shall not be reborn again. Says Kabir, whoever is absorbed in the Naam remains lovingly absorbed in the Primal, Absolute Principle. -----Kabir, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 1103-19 & 1104-1

    Of course no one knows what happens after death. But while we are still alive, salvation can be achieved through Divine knowledge. There is no way to prove this. The only option is to accept it as a matter of faith. Understanding concepts such as salvation is not easy at present. Implicit in it is the notion that there was a before, during and after as part of this stipulation.

    The need for salvation rests upon a surprising and apparently enduring fact, the fact of contradiction in the inner life. We all tend to begin, as Socrates did, with the assumption that wickedness is a matter of ignorance, and we often hold that, if a man really knows what is good, he is sure to do it. The Primary Good is good, pure and simple, not by virtue of connection with some thing else, because there is nothing else above it. All things are below It, and receive good from It. It is further more an agent, whose action is intellect (The Higher Self), life, and every thing in which there is life and intelligence. It should not be supposed that evil/bad is opposite to the Primary Good, because there is no intermediary between them. The Primary Good has no opposite. Good either does not exist, or if it does exist, it has no opposite what so ever. But it is impossible for the Good not to exist, because it is the cause of causes. The Primary Good (Akal Purkh) does exist being the cause of causes and It does not cease to exist. The secondary good is what the Primary Good has created, which is intellect. The tertiary good is the self with its arrangement winding up in bodies.

    ਹਾਹਾ ਹੋਤ ਹੋਇ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨਾ ॥ਜਬ ਹੀ ਹੋਇ ਤਬਹਿ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਾ ॥ਹੈ ਤਉ ਸਹੀ ਲਖੈ ਜਉ ਕੋਈ ॥ਤਬ ਓਹੀ ਉਹੁ ਏਹੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥

    Hāhā hoṯ ho¬ė nahī jānā, Jab hī ho¬ė ṯabeh man mānā, Hai ṯa¬o sahī lakẖai ja¬o ko¬ī, Ŧab ohī uho ėhu na ho¬ī.

    HAHA: God exists, but also is not known to exist. When Akal Purkh is known to exist, then the mind is pleased and appeased. Of course the God exists, if one could only understand It. Then, alone It exists, and not this mortal being.-----Kabir, Gauri Bawan Akhari, AGGS, Page, 342-16 & 17

    We all know of sweet and beautiful lives ruined by explosive tempers, lack of poise in character, ending in bad blood. How few people we meet in life seem to be well balanced, having that exquisite poise which is characteristic of a refined character! A growth in spirituality animates a different kind of wisdom from the higher worlds to those who dwell here below. Through growth in spirituality this flow of spiritual vitality occurs upon following the esoteric principles enshrined in AGGS. People of other faiths can similarly follow the precepts for good deeds according to their own religions. Thus, any one on this earth making the effort can be blessed by spiritual wisdom or so called salvation in life.

    Yes, humanity surges with uncontrolled passion, is tumultuous with ungoverned grief, is blown about by anxiety and doubt. Only the wise individual, only he whose thoughts are controlled and purified by being blessed by the Grace of Akal Purkh, makes the winds and the storms of the mind obey him.

    Tempest-tossed souls, wherever you may be, under whatsoever conditions you may live, know this in the ocean of life (ਭਵਜਲ), the isles of Blessedness, Grace, are smiling, and the sunny shore of your ideal awaits your coming. Keep your hand firmly upon the helm of thought. In the bark of your mind reclines the commanding Master; but sleep: wake It and follow Its command and Will. “Thy Will be done”. Self-control is strength; Right Thought is mastery; Calmness is power. Say unto your heart, "Peace, be still!" Tranquility is a prelude to the state of liberation.

    Guru Arjan describes in Raag Basant, AGGS, Page 1192, the liberated devotees of the Akal Purkh:

    Ajaamal uttered the “Akal Purkh's Name” once, and was saved.

    Baalmeek found the “Sadh Sangat”, the Company of the Holy.

    The God definitely met Dhroo.

    Ganika the prostitute was saved, when her parrot uttered the “Akal Purkh's Name”.

    The elephant “meditated” on the Akal Purkh, and was saved.

    He delivered the poor Brahmin Sudama out of poverty.

    Even the hunter who shot an arrow at Krishna was saved.

    Kubija the hunchback was saved, when God placed Its Feet on her thumb.

    Bidar was saved by his “attitude of humility” in mind; you too must meditate on the
    God.

    God It self saved the honor of Prahlaad.

    Dropatee's honor was preserved, when she was being disrobed in the court.

    Dhanna served the God, with the “innocence” of a child.

    “Meeting with the Guru”, Trilochan attained the perfection of the Siddhas.

    The Guru blessed Baynee with “His Divine Illumination”.

    Jai Dev gave up his “egotism”.

    Sain the barber was saved through his selfless service.

    Kabir meditated on the One God with love.

    Naam Dev lived with the Dear God.

    Ravi Das meditated on God, the Incomparably Beautiful.

    Guru Nanak Dev is the Embodiment of the God of the Universe.

    Dhanna also got liberated with dedication.

    There seems to be no scientific test to prove the above described salvation.

    Guru Amardas addresses Kabir about the door of salvation in Raag Gujri;

    ਕਬੀਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਸੰਕੁੜਾ ਰਾਈ ਦਸਵੈ ਭਾਇ ॥ ਮਨੁ ਤਉ ਮੈਗਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਰਹਾ ਨਿਕਸਿਆ ਕਿਉ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਐਸਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਜੇ ਮਿਲੈ ਤੁਠਾ ਕਰੇ ਪਸਾਉ ॥ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਮੋਕਲਾ ਸਹਜੇ ਆਵਉ ਜਾਉ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਅਤਿ ਨੀਕਾ ਨਾਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਨੁ ਅਸਥੂਲੁ ਹੈ ਕਿਉ ਕਰਿ ਵਿਚੁ ਦੇ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਹਉਮੈ ਗਈ ਜੋਤਿ ਰਹੀ ਸਭ ਆਇ ॥

    Kabīr mukaṯ ḏu¬ārā sankuṛā rā¬ī ḏasvai bẖā¬ė, Man ṯa¬o maigal ho¬ė rahā niksi¬ā ki¬o kar jā¬ė, Aisā saṯgur jė milai ṯuṯẖā karė pasā¬o, Mukaṯ ḏu¬ārā moklā sehjė āva¬o jā¬o. Nānak mukaṯ ḏu¬ārā aṯ nīkā nānĥā ho¬ė so jā¬ė, Ha¬umai man asthūl hai ki¬o kar vicẖ ḏė jā¬ė, Saṯgur mili¬ai ha¬umai ga¬ī joṯ rahī sabẖ ā¬ė.

    O Kabir, the gate of liberation is narrow, less than one-tenth of a mustard seed. The mind has become as big as an elephant; how can it pass through this gate? If one meets such a True Guru, by His Pleasure, He shows His Mercy. Then, the gate of liberation becomes wide open, and the soul easily passes through. O Nanak, the gate of liberation is very narrow; only the very tiny can pass through. Through egotism, the mind has become bloated. How can it pass through? Meeting the True Guru, egotism departs, and one is filled with the Divine Light. -----Guru Amardas, Gujri Ki Var, AGGS, Page, 509-16, 17, 18 & 19

    ਕਬੀਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਸੰਕੁਰਾ ਰਾਈ ਦਸਏਂ ਭਾਇ ॥ ਮਨੁ ਤਉ ਮੈਗਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਰਹਿਓ ਨਿਕਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਕੈ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਕਬੀਰ ਐਸਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਜੇ ਮਿਲੈ ਤੁਠਾ ਕਰੇ ਪਸਾਉ ॥ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਮੋਕਲਾ ਸਹਜੇ ਆਵਉ ਜਾਉ ॥

    Kabīr mukaṯ ḏu¬ārā sankurā rā¬ī ḏas¬ėʼn bẖā¬ė, Man ṯa¬o maigal ho¬ė rahi¬o nikso ki¬o kai jā¬ė, Kabīr aisā saṯgur jė milai ṯuṯẖā karė pasā¬o, Mukaṯ ḏu¬ārā moklā sehjė āva¬o jā¬o.

    Kabir, the door of liberation is very narrow, less than the width of a mustard seed. Your mind is larger than an elephant; how will it pass through? Kabir, if I meet such a True Guru, who mercifully blesses me with the gift, then the door of liberation will open wide for me, and I will easily pass through.-----Kabir Slokes 58 & 59, AGGS, Page, 1367-10,11 & 12

    After all is said and done, liberation/salvation is the state of equipoise developed with dedication, and service, that one enjoys the divine bliss in this life. It comes with the development of virtues and treating every one as equal.

    Question arises about Mukti ending future birth and death cycles.

    Where do we go...does everything end for us? Do we no longer exist...do we loose our self?

    The religious man, believing as he does in the spiritual nature of God and in the spiritual nature of man, soon discovers that he has two selves. One is the present actual self, narrow, confused, and self-contradictory; the other is the Real Self which a man may see but dimly hidden under the veil of ego (ਹਉਮੈ), but which he soon realizes is his greatest possession gained through the teachings of Sabd Guru or The Word. Mind is all inclusive of conscious and unconscious processes and is the seat of Cause of Causes. This is the place where all interchanges take place. The following hymns of Guru Nanak in Raag Gauri and Guru Arjan in Ramkali describe where we came from and where do we go after death;

    ਦੇਹੀ ਮਾਟੀ ਬੋਲੈ ਪਉਣੁ ॥ਬੁਝੁ ਰੇ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਮੂਆ ਹੈ ਕਉਣੁ ॥ਮੂਈ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਬਾਦੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ॥ਓਹੁ ਨ ਮੂਆ ਜੋ ਦੇਖਣਹਾਰੁ ॥ਹਉ ਨ ਮੂਆ ਮੇਰੀ ਮੁਈ ਬਲਾਇ ॥ਓਹੁ ਨ ਮੂਆ ਜੋ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ॥ ਮਰਤਾ ਜਾਤਾ ਨਦਰਿ ਨ ਆਇਆ ॥

    Dayhee Maatee Bolai Pa-un, Bujh Ray Gi-aanee Moo-aa Hai Ka-un. Moo-ee Surat Baad AhaNkaar, Oh Na Moo-aa Jo Daykhanhaar, Ha-o Na Moo-aa Mayree Mu-ee Balaa-ay, Oh Na Moo-aa Jo Rahi-aa Samaa-ay, Kaho Nanak Gur Barahm Dikhaa-i-aa, Martaa Jaataa Nadar Na Aa-i-aa.

    The body is dust; the wind speaks through it. Understand, O wise one, who has died. Awareness, conflict and ego have died, but the One who sees does not die. I have not died; only the evil nature within me has died. The One who is pervading everywhere does not die. Says Nanak, the Guru has revealed God to me, and now I see that there is no such thing as birth or death. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 152

    Guru Arjan in Raag Ramkali;

    ਕਉਨੁ ਮੂਆ ਰੇ ਕਉਨੁ ਮੂਆ ॥ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ਇਹੁ ਤਉ ਚਲਤੁ ਭਇਆ ॥ਅਗਲੀ ਕਿਛੁ ਖਬਰਿ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥ਰੋਵਨਹਾਰੁ ਭਿ ਊਠਿ ਸਿਧਾਈ ॥ਭਰਮ ਮੋਹ ਕੇ ਬਾਂਧੇ ਬੰਧ ॥ਸੁਪਨੁ ਭਇਆ ਭਖਲਾਏ ਅੰਧ ॥ ਇਹੁ ਤਉ ਰਚਨੁ ਰਚਿਆ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ॥ਆਵਤ ਜਾਵਤ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਅਪਾਰਿ ॥ਨਹ ਕੋ ਮੂਆ ਨ ਮਰਣੈ ਜੋਗੁ ॥ਨਹ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਹੋਗੁ ॥ਜੋ ਇਹੁ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਸੋ ਇਹੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ਜਾਨਣਹਾਰੇ ਕਉ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ ॥ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਿ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਇਆ ॥ਨਾ ਕੋਈ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇਆ ॥

    Ka-un Moo-aa Ray Ka-un Moo-aa, Barahm Gi-aanee Mil Karahu Beechaaraa Ih Ta-o Chalat Bha-i-aa, No One Knows What Happens After Death. Rovanhaar Bhe Ooth SiDhaa-ee, Bharam Moh Kay BaaNDhay BanDh, Supan Bha-i-aa Bhakhlaa-ay AnDh. Ih Ta-o Rachan Rachi-aa Kartaar, Aavat Jaavat Hukam Apaar, Nah Ko Moo-aa Na Marnai Jog, Nah Binsai Abhinaasee Hog. Jo Ih Jaanhu So Ih Naahi, Jaananhaaray Ka-o Bal Jaa-o. Kaho Nanak Gur Bharam Chukaa-i-aa, Naa Ko-ee Marai Na Aavai Jaa-i-aa.

    Who has died? O, who has died? O, God-realized beings meet together and consider this. What a wondrous thing has happened! No one knows what happens after death. The one who is lamenting will also arise and depart. Mortal beings are bound by the bonds of doubt and attachment. When life becomes a dream, the blind man babbles and grieves in vain. The Creator created this creation. It comes and goes, subject to the Will of the Infinite Higher Power. No one dies; no one is capable of dying. The conscience does not perish; it is imperishable. That which is known, does not exist. I am a sacrifice to the one who knows this. Says Nanak, the Guru has dispelled my doubt. No one dies; no one comes or goes. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 885

    Guru Nanak, ponders in Raag Malar on the next life, AGGS, Page, 1289-6

    ਕਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਆਇਆ ਕਹਾਂ ਏਹੁ ਜਾਣੁ ॥ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਤ ਰਹੈ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥ਹੁਕਮੈ ਬੂਝੈ ਤਤੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ॥ ਇਹੁ ਪਰਸਾਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੇ ਜਾਣੈ ॥ KahaaN Tay Aa-i-aa KahaaN Ayhu Jaan, Jeevat Marat Rahai Parvaan. Hukmai Boojhai Tat Pachhaanai, Ih Parsaad Guroo Tay Jaanai.

    Where has he come from, and where will he go? Remaining dead while yet alive, he is accepted and approved. Whoever understands Akal Purkh’s Command, realizes the essence of reality, through Guru's Grace.

    Guru Nanak ponders in Raag Gauri:

    ਜਾਤੋ ਜਾਇ ਕਹਾ ਤੇ ਆਵੈ ॥ਕਹ ਉਪਜੈ ਕਹ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥ਕਿਉ ਬਾਧਿਓ ਕਿਉ ਮੁਕਤੀ ਪਾਵੈ ॥ਕਿਉ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥

    Jaato Jaa-ay Kahaa Tay Aavai, Kah Upjai Kah Jaa-ay Samaavai. Ki-o BaaDhi-o Ki-o Muktee Paavai, Ki-o Abhinaasee Sahj Samaavai.

    How can we know where we came from? Where did we originate, and where will we go and merge? How are we bound, and how do we obtain liberation? How do we merge with intuitive ease into the Eternal, Imperishable Akal Purkh?

    Guru Nanak Answers in Raag Gauri:

    ਸਹਜੇ ਆਵੈ ਸਹਜੇ ਜਾਇ॥ਮਨ ਤੇ ਉਪਜੈ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਇ॥ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮੁਕਤੋ ਬੰਧੁ ਨ ਪਾਇ ॥ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ਛੁਟੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਇ ॥

    Sehjay Aavai Sehjay Jaa-ay, Man Tay Upjai Man Maahi Samaa-ay. Gurmukh Mukto BanDh Na Paa-ay, Sabd Beechaar Chhutai Har Naa-ay.

    With intuitive ease we come, and with intuitive ease we depart. From the mind we originate, and into the mind we are absorbed. As Gurmukh, we are liberated, and are not bound. Contemplating the Word of the Sabd, we are emancipated through the Name of the Akal Purkh.

    ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਮਰਣੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥ਬਿਨੁ ਮੂਏ ਕਿਉ ਪੂਰਾ ਹੋਇ ॥

    Sabd Marai Fir Maran Na Ho-ay, Bin Moo-ay Ki-o Pooraa Ho-ay.

    One, who dies in the Word of the Sabd, shall never again have to die. Without such a death, how can one attain perfection? -----Guru Nanak Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 152 & 153

    Guru Ramdas in Raag Gauri and Guru Arjan in Raag Maru ponders on the subject;

    ਹਮ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਨਹ ਆਗੈ ਜਿਉ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਖੈ ਤਿਉ ਠਾਢੇ ॥ ਹਮ ਭੂਲ ਚੂਕ ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰਹੁ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਕੁਤਰੇ ਕਾਢੇ ॥

    Ham jāni¬ā kacẖẖū na jānah āgai ji¬o har rākẖai ṯi¬o ṯẖādẖė. Ham bẖūl cẖūk gur kirpā ḏẖārahu jan Nānak kuṯrė kādẖė.

    I know nothing, and I do not know the future; as the Akal Purkh keeps me, so do I stand. For my failings and mistakes, O Guru, grant me Your Grace; servant Nanak is Your obedient dog. -----Guru Ram Das, Raag Gauri Poorbi, AGGS, Page, 171-5

    ਆਗਾਹਾ ਕੂ ਤ੍ਰਾਘਿ ਪਿਛਾ ਫੇਰਿ ਨ ਮੁਹਡੜਾ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਿਝਿ ਇਵੇਹਾ ਵਾਰ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਹੋਵੀ ਜਨਮੜਾ ॥

    Āgāhā kū ṯarāgẖ picẖẖā fėr na muhadṛā. Nānak sijẖ ivėhā vār bahuṛ na hovī janamṛā.

    Look ahead; don't look back over your shoulders to the past. O Nanak, be successful this time, as there is no birth again. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Maru-Dakhnay, AGGS, Page, 1096-12

    Finally Guru Nanak leaves it up to God in Raag Gauri:

    ਕਿਰਤੁ ਪਇਆ ਨਹ ਮੇਟੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ਕਿਆ ਜਾਣਾ ਕਿਆ ਆਗੈ ਹੋਇ ॥ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਣਾ ਸੋਈ ਹੂਆ ॥ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕਰਣੈ ਵਾਲਾ ਦੂਆ ॥ਨਾ ਜਾਣਾ ਕਰਮ ਕੇਵਡ ਤੇਰੀ ਦਾਤਿ ॥ਕਰਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ॥

    Kirat Pa-i-aa Nah Maytai Ko-ay, Ki-aa Jaanaa Ki-aa Aagai Ho-ay. Jo Tis Bhaanaa So-ee Hoo-aa, Avar Na Karnai Vaalaa Doo-aa. Naa Jaanaa Karam Kayvad Tayree Daat, Karam Dharam Tayray Naam Kee Jaat.

    Past actions cannot be erased. What do we know of what will happen hereafter? Whatever pleases the Akal Purkh shall come to pass. There is no other Doer except Akal Purkh. I do not know about karma, or how great Your gifts are. The karma of actions, the righteousness, social class and status, are all contained within Your Name. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page 154

    Conclusion:

    Liberation is achieved when the individual consciousness is absorbed in to the Universal Consciousness in Divine bliss while alive. This is very difficult state but can be achieved by contemplation, deliberation, reflection, prayer, meditation, devotional Divine love, accepting Divine Will, and application of these principles in daily life. This state of tranquility is explained beautifully by Guru Tegh Bahadur in Raag Sorath.

    ਜੋ ਨਰੁ ਦੁਖ ਮੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਨਹੀ ਮਾਨੈ ॥ ਸੁਖ ਸਨੇਹੁ ਅਰੁ ਭੈ ਨਹੀ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਕੰਚਨ ਮਾਟੀ ਮਾਨੈ ॥ ਨਹ ਨਿੰਦਿਆ ਨਹ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਅਭਿਮਾਨਾ ॥ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਤੇ ਰਹੈ ਨਿਆਰਉ ਨਾਹਿ ਮਾਨ ਅਪਮਾਨਾ ॥ਆਸਾ ਮਨਸਾ ਸਗਲ ਤਿਆਗੈ ਜਗ ਤੇ ਰਹੈ ਨਿਰਾਸਾ ॥ ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਜਿਹ ਪਰਸੈ ਨਾਹਨਿ ਤਿਹ ਘਟਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਨਿਵਾਸਾ ॥ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਜਿਹ ਨਰ ਕਉ ਕੀਨੀ ਤਿਹ ਇਹ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਪਛਾਨੀ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਲੀਨ ਭਇਓ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਪਾਨੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਪਾਨੀ ॥
    Jo Nar Dukh Mai Dukh Nahee Maanai, Sukh Sanayhu Ur Bhai Nahee Ja Kai Kanchan Maatee Maanai, Neh Nindiyaa Neh Ustat Jaa Kai Lobh Moh Abhimaanaa, Harakh Soag Tay Rahai Niaarao Naaeh Maan Apmaanaa, Aasaa Mansaa Sagal Tiaagai Jag Tay Rahai Niraasaa, Kaam Krodh Jeh Parsai Naahin Tah Ghat Barahm Nivaasaa, Gur Kirpaa Jeh Nar Kaou Keenee Tah Aeh Jugat Pachhaanee, Nanak Leen Bhaio Gobind Sio Jio Paanee Sang Paanee.

    God dwells in the heart of one who in the midst of pain does not feel pain, is not affected by pleasure, affection or fear. He looks alike upon gold and dust. He is not swayed by either slander or praise, nor affected by greed, attachment or pride. Such a person remains unaffected by joy and sorrow, honor and dishonor. He renounces all hopes and desires and remains desire-less in the world. He remains untouched by sexual desire or anger. That man, blessed by Guru's Grace, understands the way. O Nanak, he merges with Akal Purkh, like water with water.-----Guru Tegh Bahadur, Raag Sorath, AGGS, Page, 633

    Virinder S. Grewal
    Williamston, MI
     
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  3. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Virinder ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Salvation is carrot and stick approach concocted by the dogmatic religions. It is based on fear factor where as Sikhi is all about love.

    As Guru Gobind Singh said," Jin prem kio, tinh hee Prabh payeio".

    In other words Salvation is only needed where there is absence of love. Where there is love, there is no fear of hell, hence life of Miri- Piri becomes heavenly.

    Thanks once again for a thoughtful essay.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  4. Archived_member7

    Archived_member7
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    i wonder what would once achieve by being in salvation...i have so many thigns to do ..i dont think its possible in this birth..i need some more births ..i want to see Khalsa raaj..the Kesri nishaan as the national flag...I better being born again and again..
     
  5. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    rajkhalsa ji

    That is a new twist on the topic. I often think myself that I have more to do. Maybe that is the way it works. Each life is an opportunity and a challenge, and not a punishment -- with Guru's kirpa.

    BTW -- Did you ever wonder why the Tibetan Buddhists believe that the Dalai Lama returns each time as the next Dalai Lama. It is because in Mahayana Buddhism even the holiest and enlightened Boddhisatvas withhold individual and personal mukhti until all the beings on the planet can be liberated. It is a major difference with other branches of Buddhism, and one of the reasons for the division in Buddhism in 100 CE at the 4th Buddhist Council from the Theraveda. The belief is also different from thinking of the Hindu panths.
     
  6. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
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    Dear Raj Khalsa Ji,

    There is no reincarnation, heaven or hell-it is all in mind.

    Guru Nanak Answers in Raag Gauri:

    ਸਹਜੇ ਆਵੈ ਸਹਜੇ ਜਾਇ॥ ਮਨ ਤੇ ਉਪਜੈ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮੁਕਤੋ ਬੰਧੁ ਨ ਪਾਇ ॥ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ਛੁਟੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਇ ॥
    Sehjė āvai sehjė jā¬ė.Man ṯė upjai man māhi samā¬ė.Gurmukẖ mukṯo banḏẖ na pā¬ė.Sabaḏ bīcẖār cẖẖutai har nā¬ė.

    With intuitive ease, we come, and with intuitive ease, we depart. From the mind, we originate, and into the mind, we are absorbed. As Guru willed, we are liberated, and are not bound. Contemplating the Word of the Sabd, we are emancipated through the Name of the Akal Purkh.

    ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਮਰਣੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੂਏ ਕਿਉ ਪੂਰਾ ਹੋਇ ॥

    Sabaḏ marai fir maraṇ na ho¬ė. Bin mū¬ė ki¬o pūrā ho¬ė.

    One, who dies in the Word of the Sabd, shall never again have to die. Without such a death, how can one attain perfection? -----Guru Nanak Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 152 & 153

    Finally Guru Nanak leaves it up to God in Raag Gauri:

    ਕਿਰਤੁ ਪਇਆ ਨਹ ਮੇਟੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ਕਿਆ ਜਾਣਾ ਕਿਆ ਆਗੈ ਹੋਇ ॥ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਣਾ ਸੋਈ ਹੂਆ ॥ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕਰਣੈ ਵਾਲਾ ਦੂਆ ॥ਨਾ ਜਾਣਾ ਕਰਮ ਕੇਵਡ ਤੇਰੀ ਦਾਤਿ ॥ਕਰਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ॥

    Kiraṯ pa¬i¬ā nah mėtai ko¬ė.Ki¬ā jāṇā ki¬ā āgai ho¬ė.Jo ṯis bẖāṇā so¬ī hū¬ā.Avar na karṇai vālā ḏū¬ā. Nā jāṇā karam kėvad ṯėrī ḏāṯ.Karam ḏẖaram ṯėrė nām kī jāṯ.

    Past actions cannot be erased. What do we know of what will happen hereafter? Whatever pleases the Akal Purkh shall happen. There is no other Doer. I do not know about karma, or how great Your gifts are. The karma of actions, the righteousness, social class and status, are contained within Your Name. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 154-1 & 2

    ਹਮ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਨਹ ਆਗੈ ਜਿਉ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਖੈ ਤਿਉ ਠਾਢੇ ॥ ਹਮ ਭੂਲ ਚੂਕ ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰਹੁ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਕੁਤਰੇ ਕਾਢੇ ॥

    Ham jāni¬ā kacẖẖū na jānah āgai ji¬o har rākẖai ṯi¬o ṯẖādẖė. Ham bẖūl cẖūk gur kirpā ḏẖārahu jan Nānak kuṯrė kādẖė.

    I know nothing, and I do not know the future; as the Akal Purkh keeps me, so do I stand. For my failings and mistakes, O Guru, grant me Your Grace; servant Nanak is Your obedient dog. -----Guru Ram Das, Raag Gauri Poorbi, AGGS, Page, 171-5

    Guru Arjan in Raag Maru ponders on the subject;

    ਆਗਾਹਾ ਕੂ ਤ੍ਰਾਘਿ ਪਿਛਾ ਫੇਰਿ ਨ ਮੁਹਡੜਾ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਿਝਿ ਇਵੇਹਾ ਵਾਰ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਹੋਵੀ ਜਨਮੜਾ ॥

    Āgāhā kū ṯarāgẖ picẖẖā fėr na muhadṛā. Nānak sijẖ ivėhā vār bahuṛ na hovī janamṛā.

    Look ahead; don't look back over your shoulders to the past. O Nanak, be successful this time, as there is no birth again. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Maru-Dakhnay, AGGS, Page, 1096-12

    Kabir in Raag Gond on Soul, AGGS, Page, 870;

    ਮੋਹਿ ਬੈਰਾਗੁ ਭਇਓ ॥ ਇਹੁ ਜੀਉ ਆਇ ਕਹਾ ਗਇਓ॥ਪੰਚ ਤਤੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਕਾਇਆ ਕੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਤਤੁ ਕਹਾ ਤੇ ਕੀਨੁ ਰੇ ॥ਕਰਮ ਬਧ ਤੁਮ ਜੀਉ ਕਹਤ ਹੌ ਕਰਮਹਿ ਕਿਨਿ ਜੀਉ ਦੀਨੁ ਰੇ ॥

    Mohi bairāg bẖa▫i▫o. Ih jī▫o ā▫e kahā ga▫i▫o. Pancẖ ṯaṯ mil kā▫i▫ā kīnĥī ṯaṯ kahā ṯe kīn re. Karam baḏẖ ṯum jī▫o kahaṯ hou karmėh kin jī▫o ḏīn re.

    I have become sad, wondering where the soul comes from, and where it goes. The body is formed from the union of the five tatvas; but where were the five tatvas created? You say that the soul is tied to its karma, but who gave karma to the body?


    Cordially,
    Virinder
     
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  7. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    vsgrewal ji

    Forgive me however I am not 100 percent convinced there is no reincarnation -- as per Gurmat. Another forum member has from time to time discussed this point with me but has not yet convinced me that Sikhism contradicts reincarnation.

    Now this verse seems clear on that point, from your post above:


    Āgāhā kū ṯarāgẖ picẖẖā fėr na muhadṛā. Nānak sijẖ ivėhā vār bahuṛ na hovī janamṛā.

    Look ahead; don't look back over your shoulders to the past. O Nanak, be successful this time, as there is no birth again. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Maru-Dakhnay, AGGS, Page, 1096-12



    But this one is not a conclusive denial of reincarnation:

    Mohi bairāg bẖa▫i▫o. Ih jī▫o ā▫e kahā ga▫i▫o. Pancẖ ṯaṯ mil kā▫i▫ā kīnĥī ṯaṯ kahā ṯe kīn re. Karam baḏẖ ṯum jī▫o kahaṯ hou karmėh kin jī▫o ḏīn re.

    I have become sad, wondering where the soul comes from, and where it goes. The body is formed from the union of the five tatvas; but where were the five tatvas created? You say that the soul is tied to its karma, but who gave karma to the body?


    I read it as a very philosophical admission that the soul, the body, and its tatvas are given according to the will of Creation. And also that the soul is tied to its karma -- according to the hukam of Waheguru.

    Personally I do not subscribe to the idea that this life is a period of time in which we pay off karmic debts from previous lives. And I do not think Guru Nanak accepted that idea and in fact I believe that he rejected this idea as an Brahminical ploy to control the earthly destiny of everyone else. There have been other threads on this topic so I don't want to repeat the arguments.

    The idea that the soul returns does not have to be rigidly linked to the theory of past karams for a concept of reincarnation to be consistent with Gurmat. Another understanding can be that the soul has a destiny, a future, that is linked to the karams of this life. What I have in mind is that Waheguru may have work for some of us to do -- that reincarnation speaks to the need to progress; not to the idea of punishment or purification because of past "sins" and deficiencies, evil natures, bad deeds, etc.
     
  8. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
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    Dear Tony Ji,

    I have discussed this topic in my post review of Re-incarnation in detail. I have left to the individual to make up his/her mind about it. There is no reincarnation is my view and is a state of mind and Guru Nanak has referred to,it in Siri Raag. You can review my post on Karma as I do not believe in the Karma of past life too but do believe Karma/Deeds in the present as you sow so shall you reap.

    We can always agree to disagree.

    Respectfully submitted.

    Virinder
     
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  9. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    vsgrewal ji

    Forgive me if I press the point. Then how do we disambiguate two ideas: The liberation of the personal self (which I agree does not return in another form); versus the liberation of the soul?

    I understand the the opportunity for liberation comes only one time. So far after all my reading on this point on SPN and other places, no one has convinced me that the soul will only visit one time.

    My regards to you for persisting with me.
    Antonia
     
  10. Archived_member7

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    I shall share my experience. I once was watching a episode on Sahara channel, they show such incidents and also the real people associated with it. The episode had some stuff about rebirth and a therapist Dr. Yuvraj Kapadia who i can say 'takes' u to your previous life. I was interested and fixed an appointment.

    I am often teased by people that i dont belong to this era and should have been born 200 years back so i always wanted to know why this was since my parents mindsets completely differ.

    The first day session was to making me comfortable to hypnosis. The next day he took to that state..now let me tell you this state is not something like a theatre where u r seeing a film ..you are completely alert enough of whats going on around you...

    The doc takes you to the state and keeps asking you about what you can see ...i saw myself which looked like the fileds of
     
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  11. Archived_member7

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    sorry got disconnected ...so i saw myself in what seemed to be the fields of Punjab..yelllow lush...a house which was huge...and the ongoings ..myself in a elderly state and some people ...and then death....maybe some illness...

    The doc asked me .what was my name ...the name automatically came out Inderpal singh....
     
  12. spnadmin

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    Guru Nanak on Ang 154 is teaching us that karma is one of the Gifts of the Akaal-- who we know from japji Sahib has intelligence too large to comprehend and whose gifts are too enormous and plentiful to grasp with our petty minds. From this I understand that the nature and significance of the karams in my own life are not within my ability to understand completely, and certainly not their design or purpose. I am who Akaal intended. All of it is contained within His reality-- and that is unknowable to me. So who is to say that there cannot be a path of righteousness, a dharam that I or someone else is not destined at another stage of development?

    ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
    gourree mehalaa 1 ||
    Gauree, First Mehl:


    ਕਿਰਤੁ ਪਇਆ ਨਹ ਮੇਟੈ ਕੋਇ ॥
    kirath paeiaa neh maettai koe ||
    Past actions cannot be erased.


    ਕਿਆ ਜਾਣਾ ਕਿਆ ਆਗੈ ਹੋਇ ॥
    kiaa jaanaa kiaa aagai hoe ||
    What do we know of what will happen hereafter?


    ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਣਾ ਸੋਈ ਹੂਆ ॥
    jo this bhaanaa soee hooaa ||
    Whatever pleases Him shall come to pass.


    ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕਰਣੈ ਵਾਲਾ ਦੂਆ ॥੧॥
    avar n karanai vaalaa dhooaa ||1||
    There is no other Doer except Him. ||1||


    ਨਾ ਜਾਣਾ ਕਰਮ ਕੇਵਡ ਤੇਰੀ ਦਾਤਿ ॥
    naa jaanaa karam kaevadd thaeree dhaath ||
    I do not know about karma, or how great Your gifts are.



    v
    ਕਰਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    karam dhharam thaerae naam kee jaath ||1|| rehaao ||
    The karma of actions, the Dharma of righteousness, social class and status, are contained within Your Name. ||1||Pause||




    In the Bani of Guru Arjan Dev on Ang 176 we are told about our opportunity to attain ethical and moral perfection. I have never understood this passage to be Guru Arjan's version of a scientific treatise on the evolution of the species. It is about the evolution of something else. So many time people will quote the worm and insect part and forget that we are told that we only become truly human in the company of the holy. This is spiritual evolution in my humble understanding. Why would the soul not continue its evolution if that is a possibility, or if it is so ordained by Akaal Purkah?


    ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਭਏ ਕੀਟ ਪਤੰਗਾ ॥
    kee janam bheae keett pathangaa ||
    In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;


    v ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਜ ਮੀਨ ਕੁਰੰਗਾ ॥
    kee janam gaj meen kurangaa ||
    in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.


    ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਪੰਖੀ ਸਰਪ ਹੋਇਓ ॥
    kee janam pankhee sarap hoeiou ||
    In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.



    v ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਹੈਵਰ ਬ੍ਰਿਖ ਜੋਇਓ ॥੧॥
    kee janam haivar brikh joeiou ||1||
    In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1||


    ਮਿਲੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ਮਿਲਨ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥
    mil jagadhees milan kee bareeaa ||
    Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.


    ਚਿਰੰਕਾਲ ਇਹ ਦੇਹ ਸੰਜਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    chirankaal eih dhaeh sanjareeaa ||1|| rehaao ||
    After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause||


    ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸੈਲ ਗਿਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ ॥
    kee janam sail gir kariaa ||
    In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;


    ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਰਭ ਹਿਰਿ ਖਰਿਆ ॥
    kee janam garabh hir khariaa ||
    in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;


    ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸਾਖ ਕਰਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
    kee janam saakh kar oupaaeiaa ||
    in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;


    ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਇਆ ॥੨॥
    lakh chouraaseeh jon bhramaaeiaa ||2||
    you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2||

    ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਭਇਓ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ॥
    saadhhasang bhaeiou janam paraapath ||
    Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human lif
    e.


    ਕਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ਭਜੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ॥
    kar saevaa bhaj har har guramath ||
    Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har.
     
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  13. Archived_member7

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    I have not known any one by that name ..i dont even know how that name came in my mind ... I was then brought back ...i needed more sessions ...i then realised i couldnt do much even if i knew ..i possibly could that amount to help a needy person rather paying the doc
     
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  14. spnadmin

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    rajkhalsa ji

    This is very interesting information and I wish I had the Sahara channel and could see it. My concern though always is that a self-fulfilling hypothesis is in play -- a kind of pseudoscience. People hear about this and talk about it. When it is their turn to be put under by the expert, low and behold they do have a memory of a previous life!

    There is no way to prove or disprove these findings. Therefore they are not science. There is no way to prove or disprove a religious belief either -- but religious understanding does not have to be proved or disproved.

    HOWEVER, science must be able to disprove its theories and hypotheses or it is not science. All science is held to the principle of dis-confirmation. It is more important to reject an hypothesis than it is to accept an hypothesis.

    The problem with the past life theories -- they are neither scientific nor religious. So we have to be skeptical.

    Good point p/s -- a needy person could use that money.
     
  15. Archived_member7

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    this is true ...Aad ji....there is no proof ...my concern to undergo that experience was to realise why i was born like that...even my wife says ..u got a spirit of some kinda soldier in u ...
     
  16. vsgrewal48895

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    Dear Tony Ji,

    I posted on the subject of soul and IMHO being a student of Medicine I believe that there is no soul as believed by the people at large. There is conscience created by three trillion snaps and interaction of cells in association and complimentary integrated functions of other components of the body.

    Cordially,

    Virinder
     
  17. spnadmin

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    virinder ji

    Forgive me again -- but I cannot seem to be quiet. It is very hard to keep the subjects of karma, soul, Guru ki seva, dharma and salvation as discrete topics. They are actually inter-connected concepts. That is why I refer to more than one of them at a time, and relate them to each other, in the same reply. I have read your threads and value your learning.
     
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  18. vsgrewal48895

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    Dear Tony Ji,

    I present the topic as I understand-it may not be right in others understanding. Some of these topics are difficult to digest for me-being removing kidneys from a brain dead person and transplanting in to other where these function normally-same is true about other organs being removed and transplanted by other specialities. There is a brain death and cellular death as you know being interested in biology.

    I believe in the Karma of the present life presenting as a consequence during the duration of present life. God being compassionate, Merciful, and forgiving definitly would have made it transparent for the human to work for his/her being better in this life. These questions are mind boggling and past Karma being speculative.

    Thanks for your thoughtful comments, which I accept graciously.

    Regards.

    Virinder
     
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  19. spnadmin

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    virinderji

    Thanks! although you have me laughing now. There is one physical life per person on the planet (we are assuming this is true). A person dies. A person, complete with mind, memories, and personality, does not reincarnate or transmigrate as a package deal (again we are assuming this is true). There is only one time for salvation (though I don't like this word and prefer liberation). Then it is Nanak himself who asks, What happens to the Soul? The key question where I focus my energies when I can. If some miss their one opportunity, then what happens to the soul? Why would there not be opportunities to progress?
     
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  20. vsgrewal48895

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    Dear Tony Ji,

    It is all about positive attitude and mental serenity during this only life by acceptence Akal Purkh's Will.
    I have posted many times as there are references in AGGS that no one knows what happens after death. Keeping patients alive on life supporting measures and increase of life span in the modern days might lead to speculations that God is pleased with humans in the west due to their good deeds and now giving them extra 10-15-20 years to live.

    The more tranquil an individual becomes, the greater is his success, influence, and his power for good. Such an individual will prosper along with his self-control and equanimity. People prefer to deal with an individual whose demeanor is consistently even. One who considers every one equal is religious and is liberated while alive.

    ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਜਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਏ ॥ ਸਚੀ ਰਹਤ ਸਚਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਏ ॥ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਰੇ ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਿ ਜਾਣੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਪਛਾਣੁ ॥

    Jīvan mukaṯ jā sabaḏ suṇā▫e. Sacẖī rahaṯ sacẖā sukẖ pā▫e. Man māre jīvaṯ mar jāṇ. Nānak naḏrī naḏar pacẖẖāṇ.

    One is dead and liberated while yet alive, by listening to the Sabd. Living a truthful way of life, one finds true peace. Whoever subdues his mind, knows the state of being dead while yet alive. O Nanak, by Its Grace, the Gracious Akal Purkh is realized.
    -----Guru Nanak, Raag Parbhati, AGGS, Page 1343


    Cordially,

    Virinder
     
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  21. spnadmin

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    virinder ji

    Thank you ji. But you know then there is a question to logically follow your laslt remarks above. i will be quiet for now.
     
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