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S. G. S. Kala Afghana Ji's opposition to whole Bani of Tenth Master.

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by vijaydeep Singh, Feb 17, 2006.

  1. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Jul 30, 2004
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    Das did made a post of new topic of it at tapoban.org but was not posted perhaps admin did not want children to go to much deep.Its OK and nothing wrong.

    Perhaps das will start it today and may take time to write all in flow.

    Das is fan of Kala Afghana Sahib Ji but on some issue das wants him to try to learn more before teaching it to others.

    Say at one hand he takes explantion of Guru Granth Sahib Ji based on Prof sahib Singh ji while on the other hand he uses the explantion of Dasham Granth Ji by Pandit Narayan Singh Ji.

    Had he used Fareedkoti Teeka hardly any contradiction would have been found between the two.

    Best so far version in market is Dr Jodh Singh version of Sri Dasham Granth's explantion,while that also is not totaly correct.

    As Gyani Bhag Singh Ji Ambala did better explantion of Guru Granth Sahib ji on the verse from Sant Namdev Ji say on Mata Devki and Vrinda Vana praising verse and perhaps symbolosim of Akals coming sitting over Garuda which Prof Sahib Singh ji could not do.

    In another thread das is writing flaws over work by Gyani Bhag Singh Ji's understadning of Dasham Granth Ji.

    Bhai Harbans Singh Ji also wrote Dasham Granth Darpan to answer the issues raised by Gyani Ji.Das is not convinced by all replies by Bhai ji also but will try yo make his book online soon.

    But as Bhai Sahib Ji used the quotes from those five Banis which Gyani Ji said were from Tenth Master,our Sirdar Kala Afghana Sahib Ji are saying whole bani to Tenth Master is doubtfull including Japu Sahib.

    God only knows that why do they quotes Sarbloh Granth then which has Khalsa Mero Roop Hai Khas.

    In fact Jab Lag Khalsa Rahit Nayra is not at all in Sarbloh Granth(but in Sau Sakhi) and Jab Eh Gahe Vipran Ki Reet..(is not at all in any Granth).

    In Hindu poets writing of Gurus are didivded in mnay Granths like Sumat Prakash,Sarbloh Praksh etc.

    The doubt over Sakhi of Bhai Mehtab Singh Ji at Damdam Sahib was not over if this Bani is from Guru or not.

    It was over if to let the Granths remain separate or to be clubbed in one book.and Clubbing them all in one book was decided.Ie Dasham Granth was later made as one book while some chapters themselves could be books like Holy Bible has three books as mainn yet other smaller books also.

    So doubts risen by Sirdar Sahib as follow.
    1. It is countray To Guru Granth Sahib(whole Bani incluidng Japu Sahib).
    2.Why did not word Nanak is used.
    3. Why was this not included Guru Granth Sahib.
    4.How can the writier himslef write Sri Mukhwak Patshahi 10.
    5.Who is Ram Kavi and Siam Kavi?

    Das will try to answer all these and other issues raised by Vipran Ki reet to Sach Da Marg vol 9 and 10, only problem will be that Das finds it difficult ot understand Punjabi yet das will try to do somet hing later.

    So this thread id dedicated to Kala Afghana Sahib like other is to Ambala Sahib.

    He seems to be very happy in challenging with Five qoutes theory.So let us see.

    Das invites the suggestions of others also.
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  3. hakimpuria

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    Jul 23, 2005
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    I know everybody is scared of this touchy subject.I have gone through most of the contents of Kala Afgana's books with the exception of the book about Gurbilas Patshai 6. His writings do not appeal to the people who want to keep Sikhi wrapped in the arms of Hindu fold.Guru ji gave a unique universal lifestyle to whole humanity called 'Sikh way of life'. Some of our great scholars like Gianni Dit Singh Ji, Bhai Khan Singh Ji Nabha,also faced same kind of criticism from so called Sikhs (of brahaminical thoughts) when they preached real values of Sikhi.Coming to the writing of Dasam Granth, our elders like SantTeja Singh who helped to prepare our Rehat Maryada, picked up banis to be included in our nitname. They were fully aware about what is written in Dasam Granth.I have gone through all chapters of dasam granth.It contains material like Chritro Pakhian,Krishna Avtar and so on. I don't think any body with a clear mind can read those and accept that our Great Guru Sahib can use his hands to write that. It will be in the in the best interest of our higher authorities of Khalsa Panth to give clear instructions about it. It will not be wise for an individual to draw any line about it.The possible way is to setup a research board of educated Sant Scholars and well wishers of Sikhi.The sad part is that at this moment we don't have the right climate, because for some sikhs 'Kursi is much more important than Sikhi' these days. Guru ji wil bless us with good days.
  4. Archived_member2

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    Jul 18, 2004
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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

    I have heard Jeevs praying on earth. God should visualize before them.

    Every time God is visualizing before them. They fail to recognize HIM.

    You know. Why?

    It is because God does not appear in the dress Jeevs want HIM to wear at the ceremony.

    There are people who wish to dictate what the Guru should write. They forget.

    The Guru does not dictate anybody. Nor He is to be dictated by Jeevs.

    The Guru just sing.

    Balbir Singh
  5. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Jul 30, 2004
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    Dear Sahib Hakimpuria Ji,

    das can say one thing without doubt that interpetation of Gurbani as per Kala Afghana Sahib is fool proof ,ie no one can bring any misinterpetaion upon it logically.

    And das hope that his kind of purists form surivives.

    Coming to hinduism thing,then this ism came into being much after Dasham Granth was writtan.

    And unlike Hindus who do not converts other into thier faith but are more racial ie faith for higher castes.

    Das finds vocabulary of Triya Charitar actualy still used by lower castes.Das finds that writer is using thier language(which was used on lower castes by exploiting kings etc.) to abuse thier oppresser class.

    To bring in revleutions itis must that lowest of lower also rise against exploiter.

    It is possible that we may not understand Guru's intention if we put his writing in our own high class crertria.

    Das will soon try to bring out meanings of texts(Kala Afghana Sahib objected) as per Gurmat.

    But here das was talking intitaly about those five writings which were told as Per Amabala Sahib to be from Guru but Kala Afghana Sahib did not agree.

    There are some old Sikhs books also which give testomany that Guru did write Japu Sahib and it was the part of nitnem.

    We need to rememeber that if Guru Granth Sahib ji themselves were everything then there would have been no need to of Tenth master or his making us Singh.

    There is another thing Called Guru Panth,which was made clearer by Tenth Master.And topmost Gurubar Akal.

    Das finds that lower spirits in followers of Kalal Afghana Sahib regarding Panthic state is due to lacking of Dasham Guru's Bani which makes us agressive preachers.and offensive then being defeinsive.And Triya Charitars are full of offense for non Sikhs who were hypocrates and some Sikh cases are also covered.

    After reading Tenth Master Bani das can only draw conculsion that we are nearest to Islam and in fact Muslims also did preach Islam with mention of hindu metaphors in hindi.
  6. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Jul 30, 2004
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    Das was a bit busy with other works so could not put more views over here so does das will bring some explantions raised by Sirdar Sahib here.

    1. It is countray To Guru Granth Sahib(whole Bani incluidng Japu Sahib).

    Das can say that there is nothing in world which can go contrary to Guru Granth Sahib JI.

    Say it has absolute Truth in it.

    So even if some false exisit in world we can have expplnation of false just be seing truth so it rather helps us to understand false also as we knw the truth so we get to know the thing which is untrue on that standard.

    But does False is contradictory to truth.In west and semtic faiths especaily if protestants then they will agree to it as in them there is a concept of Satan(lucier is matching to God in protestants in power but in Islami Iblis is mere servent of Allah).

    and evil Satan and Good God exists and so there is contradiction.But even in holy Bible book of Jobs tells Satan works as God told him.In one Verse God by self say that I do Evil.(which protestants take as 'make') even if this make is taken then also contradiction is overcome.

    simple Verse of Sorrow and Medicine and Comfert as ailment tells about no contradiction at all.

    Staying beyond Praise and slander again thing is to see no contraditiction at all.

    so we can explain say idol worshipper does idol worshipping as Akal misguided that by Narad.

    So idol worshiping can be explained by Guru Granth Sahib and is not contradictory to it as we know Truth and we know the Truth ab oput untrue things also.

    then see Ang 149 and 150

    ਦਯਿ ਵਿਗੋਏ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਵਿਗੁਤੇ ਫਿਟਾ ਵਤੈ ਗਲਾ
    दयि विगोए फिरहि विगुते फिटा वतै गला ॥
    da-yi vigo-ay fireh vigutay fitaa vatai galaa.
    Ruined by the Merciful Lord, they wander around in disgrace, and their entire troop is contaminated.
    See this from whole verse

    ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ
    सलोकु मः १ ॥
    salok mehlaa 1.
    Shalok, First Mehl:

    ਸਿਰੁ ਖੋਹਾਇ ਪੀਅਹਿ ਮਲਵਾਣੀ ਜੂਠਾ ਮੰਗਿ ਮੰਗਿ ਖਾਹੀ
    सिरु खोहाइ पीअहि मलवाणी जूठा मंगि मंगि खाही ॥
    sir khohaa-ay pee-ah malvaanee joothaa mang mang khaahee.
    They pluck the hair out of their heads, and drink in filthy water; they beg endlessly and eat the garbage which others have thrown away.

    ਫੋਲਿ ਫਦੀਹਤਿ ਮੁਹਿ ਲੈਨਿ ਭੜਾਸਾ ਪਾਣੀ ਦੇਖਿ ਸਗਾਹੀ
    फोलि फदीहति मुहि लैनि भड़ासा पाणी देखि सगाही ॥
    fol fadeehat muhi lain bharhaasaa paanee daykh sagaahee.
    They spread manure, they suck in rotting smells, and they are afraid of clean water.

    ਭੇਡਾ ਵਾਗੀ ਸਿਰੁ ਖੋਹਾਇਨਿ ਭਰੀਅਨਿ ਹਥ ਸੁਆਹੀ
    भेडा वागी सिरु खोहाइनि भरीअनि हथ सुआही ॥
    bhaydaa vaagee sir khohaa-in bharee-an hath su-aahee.
    Their hands are smeared with ashes, and the hair on their heads is plucked out-they are like sheep!

    ਮਾਊ ਪੀਊ ਕਿਰਤੁ ਗਵਾਇਨਿ ਟਬਰ ਰੋਵਨਿ ਧਾਹੀ
    माऊ पीऊ किरतु गवाइनि टबर रोवनि धाही ॥
    maa-oo pee-oo kirat gavaa-in tabar rovan Dhaahee.
    They have renounced the lifestyle of their mothers and fathers, and their families and relatives cry out in distress.

    ਓਨਾ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪਤਲਿ ਕਿਰਿਆ ਦੀਵਾ ਮੁਏ ਕਿਥਾਊ ਪਾਹੀ
    ओना पिंडु न पतलि किरिआ न दीवा मुए किथाऊ पाही ॥
    onaa pind na patal kiri-aa na deevaa mu-ay kithaa-oo paahee.
    No one offers the rice dishes at their last rites, and no one lights the lamps for them. After their death, where will they be sent?

    ਅਠਸਠਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਦੇਨਿ ਢੋਈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਣ ਅੰਨੁ ਖਾਹੀ
    अठसठि तीरथ देनि न ढोई ब्रहमण अंनु न खाही ॥
    athsath tirath dayn na dho-ee barahman ann na khaahee.
    The sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage give them no place of protection, and no Brahmin will eat their food.

    ਸਦਾ ਕੁਚੀਲ ਰਹਹਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਮਥੈ ਟਿਕੇ ਨਾਹੀ
    सदा कुचील रहहि दिनु राती मथै टिके नाही ॥
    sadaa kucheel raheh din raatee mathai tikay naahee.
    They remain polluted forever, day and night; they do not apply the ceremonial tilak mark to their foreheads.

    ਝੁੰਡੀ ਪਾਇ ਬਹਨਿ ਨਿਤਿ ਮਰਣੈ ਦੜਿ ਦੀਬਾਣਿ ਜਾਹੀ
    झुंडी पाइ बहनि निति मरणै दड़ि दीबाणि न जाही ॥
    jhundee paa-ay bahan nit marnai darh deebaan na jaahee.
    They sit together in silence, as if in mourning; they do not go to the Lord's Court.

    ਲਕੀ ਕਾਸੇ ਹਥੀ ਫੁੰਮਣ ਅਗੋ ਪਿਛੀ ਜਾਹੀ
    लकी कासे हथी फुमण अगो पिछी जाही ॥
    lakee kaasay hathee fumman ago pichhee jaahee.
    With their begging bowls hanging from their waists, and their fly-brushes in their hands, they walk along in single file.

    ਨਾ ਓਇ ਜੋਗੀ ਨਾ ਓਇ ਜੰਗਮ ਨਾ ਓਇ ਕਾਜੀ ਮੁੰਲਾ
    ना ओइ जोगी ना ओइ जंगम ना ओइ काजी मुंला ॥
    naa o-ay jogee naa o-ay jangam naa o-ay kaajee muNlaa.
    They are not Yogis, and they are not Jangams, followers of Shiva. They are not Qazis or Mullahs.

    ਦਯਿ ਵਿਗੋਏ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਵਿਗੁਤੇ ਫਿਟਾ ਵਤੈ ਗਲਾ
    दयि विगोए फिरहि विगुते फिटा वतै गला ॥
    da-yi vigo-ay fireh vigutay fitaa vatai galaa.
    Ruined by the Merciful Lord, they wander around in disgrace, and their entire troop is contaminated.

    ਜੀਆ ਮਾਰਿ ਜੀਵਾਲੇ ਸੋਈ ਅਵਰੁ ਕੋਈ ਰਖੈ
    जीआ मारि जीवाले सोई अवरु न कोई रखै ॥
    jee-aa maar jeevaalay so-ee avar na ko-ee rakhai.
    The Lord alone kills and restores to life; no one else can protect anyone from Him.

    ਦਾਨਹੁ ਤੈ ਇਸਨਾਨਹੁ ਵੰਜੇ ਭਸੁ ਪਈ ਸਿਰਿ ਖੁਥੈ
    दानहु तै इसनानहु वंजे भसु पई सिरि खुथै ॥
    daanhu tai isnaanhu vanjay bhas pa-ee sir khuthai.
    They go without giving alms or any cleansing baths; their shaven heads become covered with dust.

    ਪਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਰਤਨ ਉਪੰਨੇ ਮੇਰੁ ਕੀਆ ਮਾਧਾਣੀ
    पाणी विचहु रतन उपंने मेरु कीआ माधाणी ॥
    paanee vichahu ratan upannay mayr kee-aa maaDhaanee.
    The jewel emerged from the water, when the mountain of gold was used to churn it.

    ਅਠਸਠਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਦੇਵੀ ਥਾਪੇ ਪੁਰਬੀ ਲਗੈ ਬਾਣੀ
    अठसठि तीरथ देवी थापे पुरबी लगै बाणी ॥
    athsath tirath dayvee thaapay purbee lagai banee.
    The gods established the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage, where the festivals are celebrated and hymns are chanted.

    ਨਾਇ ਨਿਵਾਜਾ ਨਾਤੈ ਪੂਜਾ ਨਾਵਨਿ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਜਾਣੀ
    नाइ निवाजा नातै पूजा नावनि सदा सुजाणी ॥
    naa-ay nivaajaa naatai poojaa naavan sadaa sujaanee.
    After bathing, the Muslims recite their prayers, and after bathing, the Hindus perform their worship services. The wise always take cleansing baths.

    ਮੁਇਆ ਜੀਵਦਿਆ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਜਾਂ ਸਿਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਪਾਣੀ
    मुइआ जीवदिआ गति होवै जां सिरि पाईऐ पाणी ॥
    mu-i-aa jeevdi-aa gat hovai jaaN sir paa-ee-ai paanee.
    At the time of death, and at the time of birth, they are purified, when water is poured on their heads.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਸਿਰਖੁਥੇ ਸੈਤਾਨੀ ਏਨਾ ਗਲ ਭਾਣੀ
    नानक सिरखुथे सैतानी एना गल न भाणी ॥
    naanak sirkhutay saitaanee aynaa gal na bhaanee.
    O Nanak, the shaven-headed ones are devils. They are not pleased to hear these words.

    ਵੁਠੈ ਹੋਇਐ ਹੋਇ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਜੀਆ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਸਮਾਣੀ
    वुठै होइऐ होइ बिलावलु जीआ जुगति समाणी ॥
    vuthai ho-i-ai ho-ay bilaaval jee-aa jugat samaanee.
    When it rains, there is happiness. Water is the key to all life.

    ਵੁਠੈ ਅੰਨੁ ਕਮਾਦੁ ਕਪਾਹਾ ਸਭਸੈ ਪੜਦਾ ਹੋਵੈ
    वुठै अंनु कमादु कपाहा सभसै पड़दा होवै ॥
    vuthai ann kamaad kapaahaa sabhsai parh-daa hovai.
    When it rains, the corn grows, and the sugar cane, and the cotton, which provides clothing for all.

    ਵੁਠੈ ਘਾਹੁ ਚਰਹਿ ਨਿਤਿ ਸੁਰਹੀ ਸਾ ਧਨ ਦਹੀ ਵਿਲੋਵੈ
    वुठै घाहु चरहि निति सुरही सा धन दही विलोवै ॥
    vuthai ghaahu chareh nit surhee saa Dhan dahee vilovai.
    When it rains, the cows always have grass to graze upon, and housewives can churn the milk into butter.

    ਤਿਤੁ ਘਿਇ ਹੋਮ ਜਗ ਸਦ ਪੂਜਾ ਪਇਐ ਕਾਰਜੁ ਸੋਹੈ
    तितु घिइ होम जग सद पूजा पइऐ कारजु सोहै ॥
    {censored word, do not repeat.} ghi-ay hom jag sad poojaa pa-i-ai kaaraj sohai.
    With that ghee, sacred feasts and worship services are performed; all these efforts are blessed.

    ਗੁਰੂ ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਨਦੀ ਸਭਿ ਸਿਖੀ ਨਾਤੈ ਜਿਤੁ ਵਡਿਆਈ
    गुरू समुंदु नदी सभि सिखी नातै जितु वडिआई ॥
    guroo samund nadee sabh sikhee naatai jit vadi-aa-ee.
    The Guru is the ocean, and all His Teachings are the river. Bathing within it, glorious greatness is obtained.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਜੇ ਸਿਰਖੁਥੇ ਨਾਵਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਤਾ ਸਤ ਚਟੇ ਸਿਰਿ ਛਾਈ ॥੧॥
    नानक जे सिरखुथे नावनि नाही ता सत चटे सिरि छाई ॥१॥
    naanak jay sirkhutay naavan naahee taa sat chatay sir chhaa-ee. ||1||
    O Nanak, if the shaven-headed ones do not bathe, then seven handfuls of ashes are upon their heads. ||1||

    so perhaps Jains may find contrdiction with us as we oppose them and eat meat but we know that they do as Akal tells them to do.

    So is idolator or say present day so called Muslim,who is fundamentalist.

    As we see above while describing there has been no encouragement but only obejcitve description.

    Das will touch Triy Charitar in another thread but just wants to aks a question.

    should the equalty of Female folk comes only by forcing them to wear Turban?

    If we can talk some explicit sexual talk with Male say Father or Brother or Son then why should we be sexual concious with say Mother,Doughter or Sister.?Can soul be male or female while both are Akal?

    Is not that our chavinism still due to pagan mentailty which makes us think that Guru was like us and can not think as we too can not think.

    And when that Guru who took baptism from us(Khalsa) only tells us all the experiance of life to us so that we also behold him like us and do not worship him,we say that someone else is belittleing Guru.

    Guru had humbleness and did gave us various way to prevent ourselves from wrong.Some could be own expiriances.And many others to expose anti Sikh people.
    2.Why did not word Nanak is used.

    This is somthing often asked that why did Guru did not use term Nanak.

    Well let us consider one Verse form Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    ਸਭ ਤੇ ਵਡਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਲ ਰਾਖੀ ਮੇਰੀ ॥੪॥੧੦॥੫੭॥
    सभ ते वडा सतिगुरु नानकु जिनि कल राखी मेरी ॥४॥१०॥५७॥
    sabh tay vadaa satgur naanak jin kal raakhee mayree. ||4||10||57||
    Guru Nanak is the greatest of all; He saved my honor in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga. ||4||10||57||
    ang 750

    Till this day here glory of Nanak as Satiguru is sung.

    But did this heavanly verse meant this?
    does it means that Fifth Master were not one with First Master and if yes then why does it happened?

    Cannot we read it as Oh Nanak! Satiguru(Akal) is highest,who protected my Tommow/movement or protected me in evil age.

    As we as a Sikh never had humans as Satiguru but personal worshippers were always wanted to misuse Gurbani to let thier living Gurus be praised so they always wanted to proeve that First Master was a living Satiguru.

    But Tenth master had other plans.

    He did not want the Sikhs to go to personal worship by misunderstadning the verse.

    Akal sent Verses of Guru Granth Sahib,Akal only misinterpreted them and Akal only in the form of Tenth Master directed us to understand the verses correctly.

    Tenth master never used his name so that people must not start to worship him.

    It is clear in Vachitar Natak

    ਜੋ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਉਚਰਿਹੈਂ ॥ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਨਰਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਮਹਿ ਪਰਿਹੈਂ ॥
    जो हम को परमेसर उचरिहैं ॥ ते सभ नरक कुंड महि परिहैं ॥
    Whosoever shall call me the Lord, shall fall into hell.

    thenat other place also

    ਜੇ ਜੇ ਭਏ ਪਹਿਲ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ ॥ ਆਪੁ ਆਪੁ ਤਿਨ ਜਾਪੁ ਉਚਾਰਾ ॥
    जे जे भए पहिल अवतारा ॥ आपु आपु तिन जापु उचारा ॥
    All the earlier incarnations caused only their names to be remembered.

    ਪ੍ਰਭ ਦੋਖੀ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਬਿਦਾਰਾ ॥ ਧਰਮ ਕਰਨ ਕੋ ਰਾਹੁ ਨ ਡਾਰਾ ॥੪੪॥
    प्रभ दोखी कोई न बिदारा ॥ धरम करन को राहु न डारा ॥४४॥
    They did not strike the tyrants and did not make them follow th path of Dharma.44.

    and also

    ਨ ਧਿਆਨ ਆਨ ਕੋ ਧਰੋਂ ॥ ਨ ਨਾਮ ਆਨ ਉਚਰੋਂ ॥੩੮॥
    न धिआन आन को धरों ॥ न नाम आन उचरों ॥३८॥
    I do not meditate on anyone else, nor do I repeat the Name of anyone else.38.

    ਤਵੱਕ ਨਾਮ ਰੱਤਿਯੰ ॥ ਨ ਆਨ ਮਾਨ ਮੱਤਿਯੰ ॥
    तवक नाम रतियं ॥ न आन मान मतियं ॥
    I am absorbed only in the Name of the Lord, and honour none else.

    Does Guru says that erlier Guru did that then anwer is no as he tells that

    in the same Vachitar Natak

    ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
    दोहरा ॥

    ਤਿਨ ਬੇਦੀਅਨ ਕੀ ਕੁਲ ਬਿਖੈ ਪ੍ਰਗਟੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਇ ॥
    तिन बेदीअन की कुल बिखै प्रगटे नानक राइ ॥
    Nanak Rai took birth in the Bedi clan.

    ਸਭ ਸਿੱਖਨ ਕੋ ਸੁਖ ਦਏ ਜਹ ਤਹ ਭਏ ਸਹਾਇ ॥੪॥
    सभ सिखन को सुख दए जह तह भए सहाइ ॥४॥
    He brought comfort to all his disciples and helped them at all times.4.

    [SIZE=-1]Previous[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Sri Dasam Granth Sahib; Displaying page of 1478 Home[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Next[/SIZE]
    ਚੌਪਈ ॥
    चौपई ॥

    ਤਿਨ ਇਹ ਕਲ ਮੋ ਧਰਮੁ ਚਲਾਯੋ ॥ ਸਭ ਸਾਧਨ ਕੋ ਰਾਹ ਬਤਾਯੋ ॥
    तिन इह कल मो धरमु चलायो ॥ सभ साधन को राह बतायो ॥
    Guru Nanak spread Dharma in the Iron age and put the seekers on the path.

    ਜੋ ਤਾਂ ਕੇ ਮਾਰਗ ਮਹਿ ਆਏ ॥ ਤੇ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਪ ਸੰਤਾਏ ॥੫॥
    जो तां के मारग महि आए ॥ ते कबहूं नही पाप संताए ॥५॥
    Those who followed the path propagated by him, were never harmed by the vices.5.

    ਜੇ ਜੇ ਪੰਥ ਤਵਨ ਕੇ ਪਰੇ ॥ ਪਾਪ ਤਾਪ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਹਰੇ ॥
    जे जे पंथ तवन के परे ॥ पाप ताप तिन के प्रभ हरे ॥
    All those who came within his fold, they were absolved of all their sins and troubles,

    ਦੂਖ ਭੂਖ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨ ਸੰਤਾਏ ॥ ਜਾਲ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਬੀਚ ਨ ਆਏ ॥੬॥
    दूख भूख कबहूं न संताए ॥ जाल काल के बीच न आए ॥६॥
    Their sorrows, their wants were vanished and even their transmigration came to and end.6.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਅੰਗਦ ਕੋ ਬਪੁ ਧਰਾ ॥ ਧਰਮ ਪ੍ਰਚੁਰ ਇਹ ਜਗ ਮੋ ਕਰਾ ॥
    नानक अंगद को बपु धरा ॥ धरम प्रचुर इह जग मो करा ॥
    Nanak transformed himself to Angad and spread Dharma in the world.

    ਅਮਰਦਾਸ ਪੁਨਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥ ਜਨ ਦੀਪਕ ਤੇ ਦੀਪ ਜਗਾਯੋ ॥੭॥
    अमरदास पुनि नामु कहायो ॥ जन दीपक ते दीप जगायो ॥७॥
    He was called Amar Das in the next transformation, a lamp was lit from the lamp.7.

    ਜਬ ਬਰਦਾਨ ਸਮੈ ਵਹੁ ਆਵਾ ॥ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਤਬ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਹਾਵਾ ॥
    जब बरदान समै वहु आवा ॥ रामदास तब गुरू कहावा ॥
    When the opportune time came for the boon, then the Guru was called Ram Das.

    ਤਿਹ ਬਰਦਾਨ ਪੁਰਾਤਨ ਦੀਆ ॥ ਅਮਰਦਾਸ ਸੁਰਪੁਰਿ ਮਗੁ ਲੀਆ ॥੮॥
    तिह बरदान पुरातन दीआ ॥ अमरदास सुरपुरि मगु लीआ ॥८॥
    The old boon was bestowed upon him, when Amar Das departed for the heavens.8.

    ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਅੰਗਦਿ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨਾ ॥ ਅਮਰਦਾਸ ਅੰਗਦ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ ॥
    स्री नानक अंगदि करि माना ॥ अमरदास अंगद पहिचाना ॥
    Sri Nanak was recognized in Angad, and Angad in Amar Das.

    ਅਮਰਦਾਸ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥ ਸਾਧਨਿ ਲਖਾ ਮੂੜ੍ਹ ਨਹਿ ਪਾਯੋ ॥੯॥
    अमरदास रामदास कहायो ॥ साधनि लखा मूड़्ह नहि पायो ॥९॥
    Amar Das was called Ram Das, only the saints know it and the fools did not.9.

    ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਸਭਹੂੰ ਕਰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥ ਏਕ ਰੂਪ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ ॥
    भिंन भिंन सभहूं कर जाना ॥ एक रूप किनहूं पहिचाना ॥
    The people on the whole considered them as separate ones, but there were few who recognized them as one and the same.

    ਜਿਨ ਜਾਨਾ ਤਿਨ ਹੀ ਸਿਧ ਪਾਈ ॥ ਬਿਨ ਸਮਝੇ ਸਿਧ ਹਾਥਿ ਨ ਆਈ ॥੧੦॥
    जिन जाना तिन ही सिध पाई ॥ बिन समझे सिध हाथि न आई ॥१०॥
    Those who recognized them as One, they were successful on the spiritual plane. Without recognition there was no success.10.

    ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਮਿਲ ਗਏ ॥ ਗੁਰਤਾ ਦੇਤ ਅਰਜਨਹਿ ਭਏ ॥
    रामदास हरि सो मिल गए ॥ गुरता देत अरजनहि भए ॥
    When Ramdas merged in the Lord, the Guruship was bestowed upon Arjan.

    ਜਬ ਅਰਜਨ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਲੋਕ ਸਿਧਾਏ ॥ ਹਰਿਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਤਿਹ ਠਾਂ ਠਹਿਰਾਏ ॥੧੧॥
    जब अरजन प्रभु लोक सिधाए ॥ हरिगोबिंद तिह ठां ठहिराए ॥११॥
    When Arjan left for the abode of the Lord, Hargobind was seated on this throne.11.

    ਹਰਿਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਲੋਕ ਸਿਧਾਰੇ ॥ ਹਰੀਰਾਇ ਤਿਹ ਠਾਂ ਬੈਠਾਰੇ ॥
    हरिगोबिंद प्रभ लोक सिधारे ॥ हरीराइ तिह ठां बैठारे ॥
    When Hargobind left for the abode of the Lord, Har rai was seated in his place.

    ਹਰੀਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਸੁਤ ਵਏ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਤੇ ਤੇਗ ਬਹਾਦਰ ਭਏ ॥੧੨॥
    हरीक्रिसन तिन के सुत वए ॥ तिन ते तेग बहादर भए ॥१२॥
    Har Krishan (the next Guru) was his son; after him, Tegh Bahadur became the Guru.12.

    ਤਿਲਕ ਜੰਵੂ ਰਾਖਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਾ ਕਾ ॥ ਕੀਨੋ ਬਡੋ ਕਲੂ ਮਹਿ ਸਾਕਾ ॥
    तिलक जंवू राखा प्रभ ता का ॥ कीनो बडो कलू महि साका ॥
    He protected the forehead mark and sacred thread (of the Hindus) which marked a great event in the Iron age.

    ਸਾਧਨ ਹੇਤਿ ਇਤੀ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਰੀ ॥ ਸੀਸੁ ਦੀਆ ਪਰ ਸੀ ਨ ਉਚਰੀ ॥੧੩॥
    साधन हेति इती जिनि करी ॥ सीसु दीआ पर सी न उचरी ॥१३॥
    For the sake of saints, he laid down his head without even a sign.13.

    ਧਰਮ ਹੇਤਿ ਸਾਕਾ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਸੀਸੁ ਦੀਆ ਪਰ ਸਿਰਰੁ ਨ ਦੀਆ ॥
    धरम हेति साका जिनि कीआ ॥ सीसु दीआ पर सिररु न दीआ ॥
    For the sake of Dharma, he sacrificed himself. He laid down his head but not his creed.

    ਨਾਟਕ ਚੇਟਕ ਕੀਏ ਕੁਕਾਜਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਲੋਗਨ ਕਹ ਆਵਤ ਲਾਜਾ ॥੧੪॥
    नाटक चेटक कीए कुकाजा ॥ प्रभ लोगन कह आवत लाजा ॥१४॥
    The saints of the Lord abhor the performance of miracles and malpractices. 14.
    ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
    दोहरा ॥

    ਠੀਕਰਿ ਫੋਰਿ ਦਿਲੀਸਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀਯਾ ਪਯਾਨ ॥
    ठीकरि फोरि दिलीसि सिरि प्रभ कीया पयान ॥
    Breaking the potsherd of his body head of the king of Delhi (Aurangzeb), He left for the abode of the Lord.

    ਤੇਗ ਬਹਾਦਰ ਸੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਕਰੀ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਆਨ ॥੧੫॥
    तेग बहादर सी क्रिआ करी न किनहूं आन ॥१५॥
    None could perform such a feat as that of Tegh Bahadur.15.

    ਤੇਗ ਬਹਾਦਰ ਕੇ ਚਲਤ ਭਯੋ ਜਗਤ ਕੋ ਸੋਕ ॥
    तेग बहादर के चलत भयो जगत को सोक ॥
    The whole world bemoaned the departure of Tegh Bahadur.

    ਹੈ ਹੈ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਜਗ ਭਯੋ ਜੈ ਜੈ ਜੈ ਸੁਰ ਲੋਕ ॥੧੬॥
    है है है सभ जग भयो जै जै जै सुर लोक ॥१६॥
    Whit the world Iamented, the gods hailed his arrival in heavens.16.

    ਇਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ ਬਰਨਨੰ ਨਾਮ ਪੰਚਮੋ ਧਿਆਇ ਸਮਾਪਤ ਮਸਤੁ ਸੁਭ ਮਸਤੁ ॥੫॥ਅਫਜੂ॥੨੧੫॥
    इति स्री बचित्र नाटक ग्रंथे पातशाही बरननं नाम पंचमो धिआइ समापत मसतु सुभ मसतु ॥५॥अफजू॥२१५॥
    End of the Fifth Chapter of BACHTTAR NATAK entitled `The Description of the Spiritual Kings (Preceptors).5.


    It is stating that all were one on Guruship .When i came into deeds of rightiousness then Father moved to realem of God.
    Often it is asked that in Vachitar Natak guru did not mentioned the Gurus before him why?

    Because cronologically they were nearer and Sikhs new about them but many things they yet wanted to know and Guru revealed the secrets of History,which was later preoved to by mytholgyies decryption inot History.

    Teh why did only Prophet Muhamud(PBUH) As Mahdeen was mentioned and why not Lord Jesus.

    See below the verse.

    ਜੇ ਜੇ ਗਉਸ ਅੰਬੀਆ ਭਏ ॥ ਮੈ ਮੈ ਕਰਤ ਜਗਤ ਤੇ ਗਏ ॥
    जे जे गउस अ्मबीआ भए ॥ मै मै करत जगत ते गए ॥
    All the earlier prophets ended themselves in ego

    and otherwise also say if these Ghaus and Mabias were not mentioned we need to understand that Guru did understood Islam where Prophet Moumud(PBUH) is termed as Final and in linage with reamining so rest before are conacelled who were before him in light of power of Akal.

    Das can sinply mention that in Japu ji Sahib,we have mention of Vedas and Holy Bible and Holy Kuran but why not Zend Aveta which was also a book of religeon.By absesnse of Zend Avesta or Bonpa,Shinto,Taoism,confusision does not mean that Guru did not know about that or we should question Gurubani.

    there the few scriptures or people say Kazi or Pandit being mentioned are in general been told the falacity of other faiths conditions at that time and not directed towards any faith in particular.But present day fantics like Kala Afghana Sahib ,who is even anti to fellow Sikhs can not understand this.

    so it was in general terms that other books or faiths are mentioned and not attacked slanderously as often people try to interpret Gurbani of Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Dasham Granth.

    coming back to main issue.Das only wanted to prove that this time due tom misuse of Name Nanak to worship say Idol of First Master(which did happned later more in some Udasis) did Guru niether used his name of Guru Nanak's name(Gobind das or Ram or Siam term will be explanied later).

    another question that Did Guru fail as people started to worship the picture.

    answer is not.those who had Faith in Dasham Granth did fail and did worship Akal only and are still there as Akali Nihungs but Udasis due to wrong thing at present are moved out in large number to hinduism.

    Had they or other pre Khalsa orders had faith in Dasham Granth then they would have been on corre ct path and some those who have are still on correct Path.

    3. Why was this not included Guru Granth Sahib.

    When Guru moved out of Anandpur Sahib ,Guru saw that heavy book of Seven Manns(a unit of wiethgt) was drwan.So it was to be made sure that in futre book needs to be handy and poratble for moving Army.

    Two books or three books can be carried by one each on horse back teied on back while one persaon can not carry three books in one man.

    there are instance recorded where Taksal of Amritsar and Damdam actualy died figthing while carrying Beerhs(Copies) Old Panth Prakash by Bhangu.

    And in fact if too much of diferent aspect of energy(Akal) and Power(Shakti ie enrergy in time time frame where Khalsa has to overcome it as power=Energy/time).

    So say a person reading aspect of non power only spritual aspect in Guru Granth Sahib ,first gets similar Bani till Ninth Master ,then Before Bhagat's Bani unlikly type of Bani by Tenth Master comes which tells how to gain kingdom to let rightounes or Dharam remain.

    so ther can be endless reasons.

    We can also think that a copy of Damdami Beerh could have been made they Ninth Master himslef and Bani of Ninth Master was included by same in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
    (to be continued..)
    #5 vijaydeep Singh, Apr 1, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  7. Suntink

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    Nov 7, 2008
    Likes Received:
    I hope I can say this nicely, but your post is extremely hard to understand. Someone who only knows English would not be able to understand it and there are people who only know English on this site.

    The Guru Granth Sahib is all in poetry and it is a very complex holy book. The Guru Granth Sahib teaches a series of principles which are called Gurmat. Gurmat has not ever accepted idol worship, since the time of Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

  8. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    SPNer sikhiart.com

    Apr 25, 2006
    Likes Received:
    The title is misleading "S. G. S. Kala Afghana Ji's opposition to whole Bani of Tenth Master."

    It should be
    "S. G. S. Kala Afghana Ji's opposition to what is assumed to be the whole Bani of Tenth Master."
  9. pk70

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    Writer SPNer Supporter

    Feb 25, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Vijaydeep Singh ji,
    If that is the reason (of Guru’s decision not to add his bani in SGGS Ji ) and you want us to trust that, answer the following question please
    “Had Guru Gobind Singh ji added “Jaap Sahib” “and Akaal Ustit” how heavier Sree Guru Granth Sahib ji would have gotten?”
    #8 pk70, Nov 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2008

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