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India Rejection of Astrological practices in Gurbani

Discussion in 'Breaking News' started by dalbirk, Aug 23, 2010.

  1. dalbirk

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    May 24, 2008
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    I find the following Puari ( no 8 ) of Vaar 5 of Bhai Gurdass Ji as a good proof that Gurbani specifically rejects superstition & practices based upon astrology . what else can be termed as rejecting astrological superstitions specifically in Gurbani in view of all SPNrs

    ਸਉਣ ਸਗੁਨ ਵੀਚਾਰਣੇ ਨਉ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਬਾਰਹ ਰਾਸਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਾ ।
    saun sagun veechaaranay nau grih baarah raasi veechaaraa|
    The life led in the light of omens, the nine planets, the twelve signs of the zodiac;
    Line 1
    ਕਾਮਣ ਟੂਣੇ ਅਉਸੀਆ ਕਣਸੋਈ ਪਾਸਾਰ ਪਸਾਰਾ ।
    kaaman toonay auseeaa kanasoee paasaar pasaaraa|
    Incantations, magic divination by lines and by the voice is all futile.
    Line 2
    ਗਦਹੁ ਕੁਤੇ ਬਿਲੀਆ ਇਲ ਮਲਾਲੀ ਗਿਦੜ ਛਾਰਾ ।
    gadahu kutay bileeaa il malaalee gidarh chhaaraa|
    Cries of donkeys, dogs, cats, kites, blackbirds and jackals cannot control our lives.
    Line 3
    ਨਾਰਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਪਾਣੀ ਅਗਨਿ ਛਿਕ ਪਦ ਹਿਡਕੀ ਵਰਤਾਰਾ ।
    naari purakhu paanee agani chhik pad hidakee varataaraa|
    It is superstitious to draw good or bad omens from meeting a widow, a bare headed man, water, fire, sneezing, breaking wind, hiccups;.
    Line 4
    ਥਿਤਿ ਵਾਰ ਭਦ੍ਰਾ ਭਰਮ ਦਿਸਾ ਸੂਲ ਸਹਸਾ ਸੈਸਾਰਾ ।
    diti vaar bhadraa bharam disaa sool sahasaa saisaaraa|
    Lunar and week days, lucky-unlucky moments and going or not going in a particular direction
    Line 5
    ਵਲਛਲ ਕਰਿ ਵਿਸਵਾਸ ਲਖ ਬਹੁ ਚੁਖੀ ਕਿਉ ਰਵੈ ਭਤਾਰਾ ।
    valachhal kari visavaas|akh bahu chukhee kiu ravai bhataaraa|
    If a women behaves like a prostitute and does every thing to please everybody, how can she be loved by her husband.
    Line 6
    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੁਖ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਰ ਉਤਾਰਾ ॥੮॥
    guramukhi sukh dhalu paar utaaraa ॥8॥
    The gurmukhs who reject all superstitions enjoy happiness with their Lord and get across the world-ocean.
    • Like Like x 2
    #1 dalbirk, Aug 23, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2010
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  3. Mai Harinder Kaur

    Mai Harinder Kaur
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    Oct 6, 2006
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    I have an Amritdhari Sikh friend who is caught up in the whole "Mangleet" thing, which truthfully, I do not even understand what it is except that it is Hindu astrology. Would anybody like to explain this and give me a good argument for him to completely disregard all this astrological superstitious nonsense.:angrykudi:

    (She is mangleet and he isn't. He is convinced that when they marry, one of them will die.):confusedkudi:

  4. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Jun 17, 2004
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    Mai ji

    Is your amritdhari friend a member of Sikh Dharma/3HO? I ask because astrology and numerology are practiced along with the maryada. Knowing if that is the vantage point, the next step would be to come up with an argument that does not threaten that person's sense of Sikhi, while at the same time bring things in line with gurbani. Of course that would be true for anyone.

    And, of course, sooner or later everyone is going to die, married or not, mangleet or not, and it is just a matter of how and when.
  5. Mai Harinder Kaur

    Mai Harinder Kaur
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    Oct 6, 2006
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    Nope. He's a garden variety SRM Sikh who lives in Punjab.
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  6. dalbirk

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    May 24, 2008
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    Mai Ji ,
    Recently I met a full family of Amritdharis who were also wearing Maulis ( sacred Hindu threads ) regular visitors to Naina Devi & Chintpurni both a hit with the rural masses of Punjab . I happened to visit him on a sales pitch visit , his talks nearly made my head go tizzy . He said everything is not needed to be covered by GURBANI , there are certain things which are beyond the scope of Gurbani like the miracles ( also described in Janamsakhis ) which were real but Gurbani does not approve of them ( being conducted by humans ) As he was a big customer I thought it right to ignore him not try to convince him . He was a member of local Gurudwara Committie . What I made out was that the man had a lot of property big money so this talk of Mata , astrology & Caste seemed perfect situation for him ( except that he was dressed as an Amritdhari ) . Gurmat is the way of the downtrodden who wants to make something of his life , get elevated , get emancipated . The rich certainly can ignore Gurmat ( at their own peril ) in the short term until & unless they fall on bad days again or the next generation fritters all the gathered wealth in bad habits . They are a bunch of hypocrites who despite knowing everything are themselves are afraid to lead the Gurmat way of life because it denies them the advantage of wealth , family status & family name , caste etc. The rural Punjab flushed with wealth is into the similar mindset IMHO .
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  7. Mai Harinder Kaur

    Mai Harinder Kaur
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    Oct 6, 2006
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    dalbirk ji,

    I know Gursikhs are few and far between.

    My friend is a young man from an urban middle-class family. He works in the computer division - design, I think - of an auto factory. He has always been a Gursikh, completely devoted to Guru ji, as long as I've known him. Before I knew him, he had gone through a wild period of drinking andpartying, but that ended when he received Amrit.

    This astrology thing seems completely out of character for him. I want to help him out of this hole he's fallen into, if I can.
  8. dalbirk

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    May 24, 2008
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    Mai Ji ,
    I have a good collection of Gurmat based articles ( in Gurmukhi ) against this astrology . If you PM me your mail ID I can send them to you & you can forward them to him . If you can mail his ID & phone no to me then I can send as well talk to him personally also .
  9. Hardip Singh

    Hardip Singh India
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    Jan 14, 2009
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    Veer jeo,
    Pl try to post these articles on SPN, it will be definately helping all of us to clear this misconceptions.
    Regards & Guru Fateh.
  10. dalbirk

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    May 24, 2008
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    Dear Hardip Ji ,
    I'm attaching these articles for the use of all SPNers
    Also in addition is this Shabad


    रामकली महला १ ॥
    Rāmkalī mėhlā 1.
    Raamkalee, First Mehl:

    ਸਾਹਾ ਗਣਹਿ ਨ ਕਰਹਿ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
    साहा गणहि न करहि बीचारु ॥
    Sāhā gaṇėh na karahi bīcẖār.
    You calculate the auspicious days, but you do not understand

    ਸਾਹੇ ਊਪਰਿ ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ ॥
    साहे ऊपरि एकंकारु ॥
    Sāhe ūpar ekankār.
    that the One Creator Lord is above these auspicious days.

    ਜਿਸੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਸੋਈ ਬਿਧਿ ਜਾਣੈ ॥
    जिसु गुरु मिलै सोई बिधि जाणै ॥
    Jis gur milai so▫ī biḏẖ jāṇai.
    He alone knows the way, who meets the Guru.

    ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ॥੧॥
    गुरमति होइ त हुकमु पछाणै ॥१॥
    Gurmaṯ ho▫e ṯa hukam pacẖẖāṇai. ||1||
    When one follows the Guru's Teachings, then he realizes the Hukam of God's Command. ||1||

    ਝੂਠੁ ਨ ਬੋਲਿ ਪਾਡੇ ਸਚੁ ਕਹੀਐ ॥
    झूठु न बोलि पाडे सचु कहीऐ ॥
    Jẖūṯẖ na bol pāde sacẖ kahī▫ai.
    Do not tell lies, O Pandit; O religious scholar, speak the Truth.

    ਹਉਮੈ ਜਾਇ ਸਬਦਿ ਘਰੁ ਲਹੀਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    हउमै जाइ सबदि घरु लहीऐ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Ha▫umai jā▫e sabaḏ gẖar lahī▫ai. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    When egotism is eradicated through the Word of the Shabad, then one finds His home. ||1||Pause||

    ਗਣਿ ਗਣਿ ਜੋਤਕੁ ਕਾਂਡੀ ਕੀਨੀ ॥
    गणि गणि जोतकु कांडी कीनी ॥
    Gaṇ gaṇ joṯak kāʼndī kīnī.
    Calculating and counting, the astrologer draws the horoscope.

    ਪੜੈ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ ਤਤੁ ਨ ਚੀਨੀ ॥
    पड़ै सुणावै ततु न चीनी ॥
    Paṛai suṇāvai ṯaṯ na cẖīnī.
    He studies it and announces it, but he does not understand reality.

    ਸਭਸੈ ਊਪਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
    सभसै ऊपरि गुर सबदु बीचारु ॥
    Sabẖsai ūpar gur sabaḏ bīcẖār.
    Understand, that the Word of the Guru's Shabad is above all.

    ਹੋਰ ਕਥਨੀ ਬਦਉ ਨ ਸਗਲੀ ਛਾਰੁ ॥੨॥
    होर कथनी बदउ न सगली छारु ॥२॥
    Hor kathnī baḏa▫o na saglī cẖẖār. ||2||
    Do not speak of anything else; it is all just ashes. ||2||

    ਨਾਵਹਿ ਧੋਵਹਿ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਸੈਲਾ ॥
    नावहि धोवहि पूजहि सैला ॥
    Nāvėh ḏẖovėh pūjėh sailā.
    You bathe, wash, and worship stones.

    ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਤੇ ਮੈਲੋ ਮੈਲਾ ॥
    बिनु हरि राते मैलो मैला ॥
    Bin har rāṯe mailo mailā.
    But without being imbued with the Lord, you are the filthiest of the filthy.

    ਗਰਬੁ ਨਿਵਾਰਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਾਰਥਿ ॥
    गरबु निवारि मिलै प्रभु सारथि ॥
    Garab nivār milai parabẖ sārath.
    Subduing your pride, you shall receive the supreme wealth of God.

    ਮੁਕਤਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਜਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਿਰਤਾਰਥਿ ॥੩॥
    मुकति प्रान जपि हरि किरतारथि ॥३॥
    Mukaṯ parān jap har kirṯārath. ||3||
    The mortal is liberated and emancipated, meditating on the Lord. ||3||

    ਵਾਚੈ ਵਾਦੁ ਨ ਬੇਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੈ ॥
    वाचै वादु न बेदु बीचारै ॥
    vācẖai vāḏ na beḏ bīcẖārai.
    You study the arguments, but do not contemplate the Vedas.

    ਆਪਿ ਡੁਬੈ ਕਿਉ ਪਿਤਰਾ ਤਾਰੈ ॥
    आपि डुबै किउ पितरा तारै ॥
    Āp dubai ki▫o piṯrā ṯārai.
    You drown yourself - how will you save your ancestors?

    ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਚੀਨੈ ਜਨੁ ਕੋਇ ॥
    घटि घटि ब्रहमु चीनै जनु कोइ ॥
    Gẖat gẖat barahm cẖīnai jan ko▫e.
    How rare is that person who realizes that God is in each and every heart.

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਤ ਸੋਝੀ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥
    सतिगुरु मिलै त सोझी होइ ॥४॥
    Saṯgur milai ṯa sojẖī ho▫e. ||4||
    When one meets the True Guru, then he understands. ||4||

    ਗਣਤ ਗਣੀਐ ਸਹਸਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਜੀਐ ॥
    गणत गणीऐ सहसा दुखु जीऐ ॥
    Gaṇaṯ gaṇī▫ai sahsā ḏukẖ jī▫ai.
    Making his calculations, cynicism and suffering afflict his soul.

    ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਰਣਿ ਪਵੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਥੀਐ ॥
    गुर की सरणि पवै सुखु थीऐ ॥
    Gur kī saraṇ pavai sukẖ thī▫ai.
    Seeking the Sanctuary of the Guru, peace is found.

    ਕਰਿ ਅਪਰਾਧ ਸਰਣਿ ਹਮ ਆਇਆ ॥
    करि अपराध सरणि हम आइआ ॥
    Kar aprāḏẖ saraṇ ham ā▫i▫ā.
    I sinned and made mistakes, but now I seek Your Sanctuary.

    ਗੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਭੇਟੇ ਪੁਰਬਿ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥੫॥
    गुर हरि भेटे पुरबि कमाइआ ॥५॥
    Gur har bẖete purab kamā▫i▫ā. ||5||
    The Guru led me to meet the Lord, according to my past actions. ||5||

    ਗੁਰ ਸਰਣਿ ਨ ਆਈਐ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
    गुर सरणि न आईऐ ब्रहमु न पाईऐ ॥
    Gur saraṇ na ā▫ī▫ai barahm na pā▫ī▫ai.
    If one does not enter the Guru's Sanctuary, God cannot be found.

    ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਈਐ ਜਨਮਿ ਮਰਿ ਆਈਐ ॥
    भरमि भुलाईऐ जनमि मरि आईऐ ॥
    Bẖaram bẖulā▫ī▫ai janam mar ā▫ī▫ai.
    Deluded by doubt, one is born, only to die, and come back again.

    ਜਮ ਦਰਿ ਬਾਧਉ ਮਰੈ ਬਿਕਾਰੁ ॥
    जम दरि बाधउ मरै बिकारु ॥
    Jam ḏar bāḏẖa▫o marai bikār.
    Dying in corruption, he is bound and gagged at Death's door.

    ਨਾ ਰਿਦੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਸਬਦੁ ਅਚਾਰੁ ॥੬॥
    ना रिदै नामु न सबदु अचारु ॥६॥
    Nā riḏai nām na sabaḏ acẖār. ||6||
    The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is not in his heart, and he does not act according to the Shabad. ||6||

    ਇਕਿ ਪਾਧੇ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਮਿਸਰ ਕਹਾਵਹਿ ॥
    इकि पाधे पंडित मिसर कहावहि ॥
    Ik pāḏẖe pandiṯ misar kahāvėh.
    Some call themselves Pandits, religious scholars and spiritual teachers.

    ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਰਾਤੇ ਮਹਲੁ ਨ ਪਾਵਹਿ ॥
    दुबिधा राते महलु न पावहि ॥
    Ḏubiḏẖā rāṯe mahal na pāvahi.
    Tinged with double-mindedness, they do not find the Mansion of the Lord's Presence.
    #9 dalbirk, Aug 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2010

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