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Reincarnation

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by confusing, Jul 14, 2006.

  1. confusing

    confusing
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    hello readers,
    (i am sikh) when i was told about reincarnation and how it was involved in sikhism i had to try to adjust to this concept, but as time progressed i realised you dont always HAVE to believe what you are told you can actually question things. So im questioning reincarnation....over the last 6 years i have fought with the idea that reincarnation really exists, to be honest i have come to the conclusion that i dont believe in reincarnation. I believe that those who have led their life the way Gxx wanted and basically avoided the bad stuff in the world will rest with the waheguru ji when they pass away. I feel that only this aspect of sikhism has been majorly been incorporated from Hinduism. In fact I believe that the reincarnation idea may have been added from Hinduism as if to provide support for their religion? this is only my opinion. if you believe in reincarnation tell me why you believe in it, if you think otherwise i dont mind you telling me so but explain why. i would also like to here other view points about those who dont believe in reincarnation.....:)
     
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  3. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    reincarnation is mentioned several times in gurbani

    ਸੁਖੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਪੁਰਬ ਜਨਮ ਕੇ ਕੀਏ ॥
    सुखु दुखु पुरब जनम के कीए ॥
    sukh dukh purab janam kay kee-ay.
    Pleasure and pain are the consequences of the actions of past lives.


    ਸੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਜਿਨਿ ਦਾਤੈ ਦੀਏ ॥
    सो जाणै जिनि दातै दीए ॥
    so jaanai jin daatai dee-ay.
    The Giver, who blesses us with these - He alone knows.


    ਕਿਸ ਕਉ ਦੋਸੁ ਦੇਹਿ ਤੂ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਸਹੁ ਅਪਣਾ ਕੀਆ ਕਰਾਰਾ ਹੇ ॥੧੪॥
    किस कउ दोसु देहि तू प्राणी सहु अपणा कीआ करारा हे ॥१४॥
    kis ka-o dos deh too paraanee saho apnaa kee-aa karaaraa hay. ||14||
    So who can you blame, O mortal being? The hardships you suffer are from your own actions. ||14||

    i do beleive in reincarnation and there is simple reason behind it.1 life is not enough to be with the god.there are so many different kind of destinies.some persons are born like princes while some are born without anything even sometime without limbs.if we have 1 life then why god is discriminating between us..just an example for you.if a person is born mentally retarted or with very low iq then where these people will go.they don't understand what is right what is wrong for them.will the person autonmatically be with god if yes then what is the purpose of his life and all the people in this world do not have same age.some people die at the age of 1 ,2 10 or 15 years,then again the question is what is the purpose of their life why god has given them such a small life.
     
  4. Anoop

    Anoop
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    Its probably true, i think reincarnation comes about about your karma...the good and bad you have done. Life may be a cycle of births and deaths through different life forms..according to sikhism 8.4 million or something like that? But what i dont understand is, how come in hinduism is says the same about 8.4 million life forms of births and deaths. But anyway, just be yourself and you dont have to keep thinking about god, because everything is god, we just have to be ourselves ..just be yourself, and take the pressure and joy of life at thesame time by being yourself.

    We go through cycles of different life forms, and it is an adventure, we should appreciate the creator, and this life is just....just too great! We should love it, no matter what situation we are in. just let god handle everything, and all we can do is, be ourselves, because that is how our soul will progress, your inner self!

    We are here in this life to learn and to progress! Love everything! Dont think to much, dont try to be too much into god...dont try being devoted if you cant handle it, just be yourself, and be thankful for everything! Everything is one! We are all humans, we all have the same organs and everything! Just think about it...life is so interesting, we cry when our loved ones die, but we dont realsie, death can come about anytime. But we dont need to worry, just be at ease and be truthful, and handle what you can only handle! Life is an adventure, do what it says in your heart, be yourself!!

    Do not live for money, or anything, be yourself, and you will find the truth of the divine loving god!
     
    #3 Anoop, Jul 15, 2006
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2006
  5. max314

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    How exactly does this advocate reincarnation?

    This is the author effectively talking to Hindus, saying that - even if you happen to believe in reincarnation as a Hindu - that it doesn't matter. All that matters is what you do in this life.

    This is not saying that reincarnation exists. In fact, it's emphasising quite the contrary.
     
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  6. Anoop

    Anoop
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    exactly, you dont have to look back at your past lfe, just get on with this...same with worrying...stop worrying about life and just get on with it..be yourself!
     
  7. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    gurbani can be interpretted in many ways and nobody knows the correct meaning of gurbani.

    i read the translation of pro sahib singh of the above lines and according to him the meaning is that we should not blame god for the sufferings in this life
    because it is according to our actions of previous lives.and i don't think there is anything wrong in it.
     
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  8. kaur-1

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    Veerji, you REALLY need to read this book:

    UNDITTHI DUNIYA (The Mystical Invisible World)
    by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji.


    It will take you awhile to read. My advice is to read the book few pages at a time to TRULY ABSORB whats been wrtten down. I still havent not finished reading.

    The other books are by Bhai Rama singh Ji.
     
  9. confusing

    confusing
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    hey everyone thankyou so much for replying i didnt think i would get a response like this. Anoop you message was especially so uplifting to read because your the first person who has ever given so excited about life!

    thanks everyone...keep posting....
     
  10. Anoop

    Anoop
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    its ok brother,

    Most of us forget who we are, we are stuck into the physical!

    I am not a hindu but a sikh, but i am not a proper sikh. I dont really belive in religions, because they come and go, i think religion had its meaning when there was a time for it, and i think the guru jis, and the guru granth sahib ji is all truth, from the divinity of god...

    The thing is people treat sikhism as a religion, when in fact we shouldnt be calling it anything but gods divine rule.

    In life, the you reach divinit truth by having pure concious. We are already one with creator, its how we realise it in this life that matters.

    Our soul takes into this life memories and records of your life. Nothing is bad and good in life...everything is perfect! Dont worry if you havent reached your pure concious, as long as you be yourself, just tke the pressure of life, and be yourself, there will be time swhere you get confused and have pressure, but whateva happens, just be urself, because ur soul is one with the truth which we call god!

    I advise you to watch sadhguru jaggi vasudev's show on aastha channel 808 sky digital!

    Everyone wil give uplifiting messages, everyone is perfect...no matter screwed u por not, there are all members here who have good threads forums! we are all perfect and unique, we are here to share our love to this human race. We always forget about the animals, how beautiful creation is...all the worlds misery, with dead bodies in terrorist attacks happening, all is life! explore it! May you go through life wisely!

    life is a cycle of many different life forms creations, dnt try ur hard to look upon god, dnt ask questions about where god is, just be urself! remember tht, and thnk god in ur heart!

    And look upon Guru Nanak Dev Ji, what a philosopher! god realsied, passion for waheguru ji! listen

    give love to others, dnt try so hard to, but by lovin urself, u give love to others, so do that, and just tke time in life to wonder how beautiful this life really is, as it is going through the divine plan!
     
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    #9 Anoop, Jul 24, 2006
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2006
  11. kaur-1

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    Dah!!

    """I advise you to watch sadhguru jaggi vasudev's show on aastha channel 808 sky digital!""""
    DAH..!!!!
    WHAT???????????????????is that all about!!!.:down:

    As a Sikh you DO NOT NEED to watch programs by this or that baba or yogi or whatever.!

    YOU SHOULD BE reading books by GURSIKHS such Bhai Rama Singh ji, Naranjan Singh Ji, Randhir Singh ji.

    As a Sikh you should be reading the banis in Guru Granth Sahib Ji to answer your question.

    Read the translations if you dont understand them and ask on this forum any queries regarding guru's bani.

    We have enough "distracted-like lost sheep!!" sikh sangat in the uk for eg, following fake sants and yogi's of other religion.

    To keep the sikh panth strong (and not have another 84!!) a sikh must:

    "aagi-aa bhe-ee akaal kee,
    tabai chal-aa-o panth.
    sabh sikhan ko hukam hai,
    guroo maani-o granth.

    guroo granth jee maani-o,
    pragat guraa kee deh.
    jo prabh ko mil-bo ch-hai,
    khoj shabad mil leh."


    From Sikh Ardas. I will sent you the ppt pictorial ardas if you want.

    There are summaries and answer-questions section even at the back of Nitmen gutka with translations in english.

    Read them!!..
     
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  12. Anoop

    Anoop
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    There goes the ego again ^

    Because your a sikh you must do this..you must do that.....its not what the hell is that all about. Im not saying believe in jaggi vasudev. Hes not what you call a guru, but a saint, just a normal person. He even admits that he dont like people aho say they want to get blessings from people. He realised truth, the light, and thats why he likes to share his things. By saying things like, we are sikhs we should do that we should do that, its all ego-ism, sikhism is ofcourse the ultimate truth divine by god, but its not always about religion, its about pure concious, and love, and truth. Sadhguru Jaggi vasudev has not got a religion, hes just himself, inner self, and he realised the light. Whatever he says is like Sikhism, and i understand that, we should not bbelive in those who think they know everything. Sadhguru Jaggi vasudev, i just like to listen to his views, he dont want people do believe in whatever he says, he just answers peoples questions to share his experience he has had. Has any of us actually been enlightened by the light? Sometimes we try our best, but then again, we dont even reach our goal. It would help if you be yourself in life.

    You think the sikh gurus were talking about their is neither hindu o r muslim just for fun? Sikhism developed because to make it easy for people to follow morals and teachings that was needed at that time! We are not here to show of about sikhism and say look we a re sikhs, we are here to say we have realsied the truth of god!... people dont even follow sikhism the right way, but anyway, there is no wrong and right in life as people are progressing.

    I listen to shabads, the loveliest hyms you could ever listen to. I dont do it because i say im a sikh, but because i love god

    its hard for some people to actually read everything u know, obviously the truth is in the gutkas, everything in sikhism is truth, it was the actually way of god, realised by the gurus, im just saying it is safe to watch sadhguru jaggi vasudev

    there is always a time for things, and reasons for it! Whatever it is, its all from god

    What you mean for the sikh panth? We are not here to create a group of sikhs and to be like muslims.
    We are not here to show that we are sikhs, we are here to be true. WE ARE SIKHS, WE MUST DO THAT, WE ARE SIKHS??? what the hell?

    That's what i hate about sikhism, they turning it into a fantasy island where you must do this do that. You know how much i love the gurus of the sikhs. Infact, i love them so much that, i learnt alot from their teachings. People dont like to expand, they like to stick to one thing in life...thats not me, i dont like to have a religion, because they come and they go, plus sikhism is truth, but people making it as a religion. Its not about doing this and doing that, because by doing the following in religion, your soul doesnt grow, you just make it hard for yourself to grow in life. I think the sikh guru ji's were talking about being your self, being pure concious, and be truth! People make it like its power rangers for god sake!!!

    People want religion because they want to go to heaven. Well its not like that. I dont know anything myself, i may be wrong, but i knw that the easiest way of dealing with life is being yourself, which then you progress into becoming pure. Everything in Sikhism is right, exactly what god is looking for, but people turned it into an organisation where you have to show off about it and do stricly according to the religion...how are we mean to learn in life if we just sit there reading the gutkas? Be yourself, and progress in becoming pure, thats all, love everything, explore everything!

    Theres A Time And Place For Everything That Happens!!
     
    #11 Anoop, Jul 24, 2006
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2006
  13. kaur-1

    kaur-1
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    You said that you have been "told" therefore I have assumed that you have never "read" or "lookedup" in Gurbani and books by Gursikhs. Please read my 2 previous post.
    "Sikhism - The faith of the new age" is one of the many free literature you can pick up to read but the back of the Nit Nem gutka is a good start to answering your question"

    A link from http://www.allaboutsikhs.com/sikh-way-of-life/parcha-shabad-ka.html

    "
    Parcha Shabad Ka (Understanding Gurbani)
    Sikhism believes in reading, and reciting Gurbani by understanding it properly. The Sikhs are required to practice the Gurbani in their practical life. Bani enshrined in Sri Guru Granth Sahib is Dhur-Ki-Bani (Revelation of God's Word ). Bani is Shabad Guru.
    Guru Arjan Dev says,

    “Gurbani is Word of God and it emnated from Him.”
    “From the Primal one, has emnated the Gurbani and it has effaced all the anxiety.”
    Dur kI bwxI AweI ]
    iqin sglI icMq imtweI
    ]
    (628)
    Guru Arjan Dev Ji says,
    “In the platter are placed three things, truth, contentment and meditation.”
    Qwl ivic iqMin vsqU peIE squ sMqoKu vIcwro ]
    (1429)​
    Sikhs are required to regularly read and understand the Gurbani written within the Guru Granth Sahib. Gurbani teaches God's virtues and how they can be revealed to us.
    The daily recitation of hymns reminds us repeatedly of the pitfalls of egotism, anger, lust, attachment, and greed. The hymns encourage readers to develop good character by constantly reminding that these virtues bring peace.
    Sikhs accept the word of the Guru as their guide. They regard the Guru Granth Sahib as their living Guru because from Gurbani, they obtain the spiritual guidance they need."
     
  14. Anoop

    Anoop
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    Sorry kaur ji, i guess i may have been harsh and wrong at times,

    he thing is, i dont think being yourself is the way, but its true though when ever i hear the name guru nanak dev ji, and see the poems guru nanak dev ji has written and the paintings of the guru, real or not, i just feel blessed and calm and emotional, i imagine an old interetsing adventurous wise, comfortable, yet flashing saint god who is just queit and has no expression and is just full commited to god,

    i am not amrit shak and i dont have the 5k's, but i really in lov ewith this religion, the ting is when we talk about guru nanak dev ji, theres peace, with the shabads aswell.

    Sorry kaur ji, i didnt mean all that, and i might be wrong, i understand things now! I feel like reciting the gutkas aswell, but i dont know punjabi. I feel as thoguh i am blessed by guru nanak dev ji, even if im imagining it, i can sense some love and purity, and amazement.

    Kaur ji, sister thanks for sharing your information :)
     
  15. Satyaban

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    I can only say what I believe.
    I believe thatkarma is the driving force of reincarnation. As the soul evolves in incurrs less karma to be brought into balance. I don't think this can be done without great spiritual understanding.
    I believe the atman to be God's image within us and as the rishis have learned the eternal atman returns to God.

    If this were not so where would the atman go after the death of this life. Could God banish himself to a place called hell, I don't think so.

    At the end of this time God will absorb all therefore there can be no eternal damnation. What's more if one believes God loves his creation it would give us chance after chance to get this right.

    Om shanti shanti Om
    Satyaban
     
  16. confusing

    confusing
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    thank you again for the information you all have provided me with on this topic...........its good to get others perspectives. Once again, thank you!
     
  17. Jaspal Singh

    Jaspal Singh
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    Concept of Reincarnation is accepted by Christians as well, however they DONOT want to talk about it.

    Here is from Bible:

    Good News Bible

    Page 16 Chapter11:

    Verse10: For John is the one of whom the scripture says ’God said, I will send my messenger ahead of you to open the way for you’


    Verse14: and if you are willing to believe their message, John is Elijah, whose coming was predicted.

    Elijah was a prophet (mentioned in Old Testament) who was born well before Christ the Jesus. It was John who baptized Jesus through full immersion in water.

    John was later on beheaded and his head was offered to some one to please a lady.

    ……………

    Here is shabd from Guru Granth sahib ji about reincarnation:



    gauVI guAwryrI mhlw 5 ] (176-10)
    ga-orhee gu-aarayree mehlaa 5.
    Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:


    keI jnm Bey kIt pqMgw ] (176-10, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    ka-ee janam bha-ay keet patangaa.
    In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;


    keI jnm gj mIn kurMgw ] (176-11, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    ka-ee janam gaj meen kurangaa.
    in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.


    keI jnm pMKI srp hoieE ] (176-11, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    ka-ee janam pankhee sarap ho-i-o.
    In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.


    keI jnm hYvr ibRK joieE ]1] (176-11, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    ka-ee janam haivar barikh jo-i-o. ||1||
    In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1||


    imlu jgdIs imln kI brIAw ] (176-12, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    mil jagdees milan kee baree-aa.
    Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.


    icrMkwl ieh dyh sMjrIAw ]1] rhwau ] (176-12, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    chirankaal ih dayh sanjaree-aa. ||1|| rahaa-o.
    After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause||



    keI jnm sYl igir kirAw ] (176-12, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.
    In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;


    keI jnm grB ihir KirAw ] (176-13, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.
    in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;


    keI jnm swK kir aupwieAw ] (176-13, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.
    in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;


    lK caurwsIh join BRmwieAw ]2] (176-13, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    lakh cha-oraaseeh jon bharmaa-i-aa. ||2||
    you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2||


    swDsMig BieE jnmu prwpiq ] (176-14, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    saaDhsang bha-i-o janam paraapat.
    Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.


    kir syvw Bju hir hir gurmiq ] (176-14, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    kar sayvaa bhaj har har gurmat.
    Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har.



    iqAwig mwnu JUTu AiBmwnu ] (176-14, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    ti-aag maan jhooth abhimaan.
    Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance.
    jIvq mrih drgh prvwnu ]3] (176-15, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    jeevat mareh dargeh parvaan. ||3||


    Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord. ||3||



    jo ikCu hoAw su quJ qy hogu ] (176-15, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    jo kichh ho-aa so tujh tay hog.
    Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord.



    Avru n dUjw krxY jogu ] (176-15, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    avar na doojaa karnai jog.
    No one else can do anything at all.



    qw imlIAY jw lYih imlwie ] (176-16, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    taa milee-ai jaa laihi milaa-ay.
    We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself.




    khu nwnk hir hir gux gwie ]4]3]72] (176-16, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
    kaho naanak har har gun gaa-ay. ||4||3||72||
    Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har. ||4||3||72||

    ....................................................



    gauVI
    (308-5, gauVI, mÚ 4)

    satgur kee banee sat sat kar jaanhu gursikhahu har kartaa aap muhhu kadhaa-ay.​
    O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true.
    The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it.​
    ..............................................



     
  18. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Reincarnation is a fancy word for recycling. We as living organisms die and get recycled. Thats the law of the land. No one can change that. Yes, Gurbani does mention about past lives because they are part of Vedas and as people at that time were almost all hindus and/or muslims, our gurus used thier scriptures to show them the meaninglessness of the subjective truths carved by different religions.

    Tejwant
     
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  19. No_One

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    If you are a sikh then I am sure you trust Guru Gobind Singh not to lie about past life, would you? or infact Kabir and other bhagats who openly talk of their previous lives?
     
  20. roopsidhu

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    A learner's reading scope should not be restricted to some writers or writers from his own faith only. Why this sort of rigidness? The preachings of many sikh preachers are many a times against the teachings of SGGS ji, should we follow all of them. Lets put it in a way that all writings, explainations and litrature which matches the core idea of SGGS ji should be accepted with all due respect irrespective of the religon of the writer. When we select the authers of the books on the basis of religon then what are we doing ? are we following SGGS ji? Is it acceptable as per SGGS ji to devide the people on the basis of religon? Lets read and accept everything which is in line with the teachings of SGGS ji . Lets stop deviding the humanity on the basis of religon, cast and creed etc. Then only we will be following the hukam " guru maniyo granth"
    Bhul chuk maaf
     
  21. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Apr 25, 2006
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    How do you explain my mountain form in one of my past births??

    :ice:
    I should write a book called "The Curse of the Living Mountain"
    muahahaha
    ignoring that last bit...

    what's a soul?? or should a make a new topic?
     

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