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rehat

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by kds1980, Dec 21, 2005.

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  1. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    today i read the following shabad


    parh pustak sanDhi-aa baadaN.
    You read your books and say your prayers, and then engage in debate;
    ??? ????? ???? ????? ?
    ??? ????? ???? ????? ?
    sil poojas bagul samaaDhaN.
    you worship stones and sit like a stork, pretending to be in Samaadhi.
    ???? ??? ?????? ???? ?
    ???? ??? ?????? ???? ?
    mukh jhooth bibhookhan saaraN.
    With your mouth you utter falsehood, and you adorn yourself with precious decorations;
    ??????? ????? ?????? ?
    ??????? ????? ?????? ?
    taraipaal tihaal bichaaraN.
    you recite the three lines of the Gayatri three times a day.
    ??? ???? ????? ?????? ?
    ??? ???? ????? ?????? ?
    gal maalaa tilak lilaataN.
    Around your neck is a rosary, and on your forehead is a sacred mark;
    ??? ???? ????? ????? ?
    ??? ???? ????? ????? ?
    du-ay Dhotee bastar kapaataN.
    upon your head is a turban, and you wear two loin cloths.
    ?? ????? ?????? ???? ?
    ?? ????? ?????? ???? ?
    jay jaanas barahmaN karmaN.
    If you knew the nature of God,
    ??? ???? ????? ???? ?
    ??? ???? ????? ???? ?
    sabh fokat nischa-o karmaN.
    you would know that all of these beliefs and rituals are in vain.
    ??? ???? ????? ????? ?
    ??? ???? ????? ????? ?
    kaho naanak nihcha-o Dhi-aavai.
    Says Nanak, meditate with deep faith;
    it is clearly written in guru granth sahib that external practices are useless so how can we justify rehat.
     
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  3. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
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    Dear KDS


    Y are absolutely right when you say that external signs ar e useless and they are but if does not mean that they are prohibited as they are useless when just done alone but they can complement tyour internal sate of being if they are also accompanied by good deeds


    So is the rehat of a hndu , Muslim and sikh and guru ji talke about hindu and muslims of that time and is happen to walk on earth again now he will surely talk same about the Sikhs as well

    But the thing is their is nothing wrong with the rehat but just to follow rehat is useless
    their ar many other examples in gurbani where guru ji has similarly said the bathing of body to be useless but obviously it jsut mean that just external bathing your body is useless if you dont clean your inside with naam simran

    So what I think is there is nothing wrong in rehat even hindu and muslim rehat if spirtuality is also given a chance to develop inside along with xternal signs



    Jatinder Singh
     
  4. devinesanative

    devinesanative
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    Knowledge cannot be found in books , when you will get inside the shoes of the writer , then you will find that what ever is written in the books is the world percieved and concieved by the writer.

    Writer only provides you the raw material to make further churn out knowledge from your real life.

    If you carefully observe the universe , Just sit in a lonely place and meditate of this question.

    Is there any spindle or Axle which his holding the SUN in the same place since the dawn of the civilization ?

    Is there any specific road made around the SUN were the planets revolve ?

    No .

    But , still the SUN is there for millions of years and all the planets are revolving around the SUN in the specific path with any physical Roads.


    Similarly we must , not be attached to the physical attributes or packaging of the exterior Looks .


    First Create the Valuable Product , ie SIKH FROM WITHIN , then think of Packaging it .
     
  5. devinesanative

    devinesanative
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    Jab Dil se Nikalti Hai aah ,
    Tab milti hai manzilon ko Rah,

    Rukawtein aateen hai bepanaah ,
    Mat karo tum kisi Rukawat ki parwaah.
     
  6. devinesanative

    devinesanative
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    Dil se agar chaho to Pathar mein Jaan aa jayegi .
    Nakal(rituals) karoge agar to jaan chali jayegi.
     
  7. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    dr.khalsa ji please be fair and tell that is it possible to keep rehat in some places.i mean you can keep rehat in india uk canada and may be in us but what about other countries.the sikh who joined pak army have to eat halaal meat as i don;t think they are going to give him vegetarian or jhatka food
    similarly sikhs are facing lot of problems in france and other countries what option they have should they leave their jobs or businesses to move to toher countries
     
  8. devinesanative

    devinesanative
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    Make the whole world SIKH .

    Then there will be no problem .

    But the Indians have a typical mindset .

    Starting form the First Guru to the Tenth Guru , there are ten steps .

    Sikhs are head on heals , to skip the first 9 steps and directly jump to the 10th step .

    Otherwise , today the whole world would have been the follower of the Sikhism .

    During the time of Gurunanak dev ji , people from diverse backgrounds gathered together and listened to him.

    But today only Sikhs Listen from the first Ear and Pass out from the Second Ear , simultaneously Expecting that From the second Ear may reach to the others First Ear and the process is going on.
     
  9. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    excellent reply dvs i totally agree with you on ten steps
     
  10. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
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    Dear Kds 1980



    I understand your concern and I also live in a place where there no sikh around me ( I am in N Ireland)

    And I will never ever proclaim that I am the sikh with best Rehat

    what i was trying to say that to say rituals are bad or bash them as some of our sikh fellows always try to do by bashing others religions for being ritualist is totally wrong in the essence that the only thing matters is one's spirtuality and love for god

    I have seen many ritualist hindu fellows who worship idols but they are so spirtual and have love for God that feel myself so small among them so there is no question I can call them wrong

    Now about keeping rehat ,yes it is chalange a big challenge and I will be difficult to keep it anywhere whether it is India or overseas ( as per my view for our young generation it is more difficult or atleast of same difficulty to keep rehat in Punja India)

    As mentioned by Ds and acknowledged by yourselfabout the ten step point in above post I also believe that Becoming khalsa is the Peak of Spirtual journey in sikh way of life and offocurse would need Matching internal strength otherwise Just if some body want to immitate it then he will be in trouble and will suffer


    Now I agree france is a special case and I agree that till sikhs win their write to wear turban they should try follow the agreed alternative as accepted by Government there and with God's will this problem will be solved in coming time

    But If you are also including to this the problem the problem people face in Uk and canda for example

    They cut theie hair just to fit in just to look more pleasant or make their life easy or something like that then obviously this shows the amount of their internal strenght to follow sikhi
    And I am more than happy that they do so ( cut their hair) because it become useless if dont get it or understand it and will give rise to hipocracy In this situation as well their is nothing against the Rehat if you have strenght to keep it

    Now about eating Halal by the Pak Sikh soilders

    well I think If he make it a point he will get Vegetarian Food
    And I hradly know how much that soilder is into sikhi we are just using the hypothetical situation

    As per understand I have I think for a sikh there is no problem in eating meat but guruji Prohibited halal due the fact of sacrificial nature of it and the opressive element of it at thattime ( every body had to eat halal if they wanted meat)

    I tell you my experience I live here with lot of peopels from Pakistan and Iran and obviously they eat Halal
    They invited me for Dinner and then we had as usuall the disscusion aout halal why sikhs dont eat it
    I explained to them about the two pints that first I am not allowed the sacrificial food and second Historical one
    But the situation here was different because every body of us there were of scintific mind set( all doctors )

    They also accused me of being ritualistic and told me that sikhs are not ritualistic and they asked me for solution as per will of akal the solution that came to my mind was
    On the dinner table in front of every body I put my mind to Akal and Did ardass make the food non sacrificial in the same way iy was made sacrificial by reading Kalma by Muslim butcher

    know some people will object ti this but This is what Akal has given me understanding If some body can make food sacrificial by reading Kalma I can make it non sacrificial in the same way their no chemical change involve in both the processes .
    But I just made my point to them that I am not allowed Sacrificial food so I have to do it and they were more than happy with that


    at last Sikhism is living religion and is not ritualistic so we have rehat but it is not ritual but our spirtual tool and Akal always help you just have to be willing to take it



    Jatinder Singh
     
  11. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    i agree with you there is nothing wrong in eating meat but isn,t halaal cruely
    slaughtered meat
     
  12. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh
    Today das met a missioary who was saying that making Halal as tabbo in us was a ploy of Hindus to blaock our union with Muslims.
    This is needed to be adjgudged.

    But we were unaniomous that we see God in all and so have no diffreance between blood and flesh(main reason for Halal) so it is ideaological and for health also animal killed with pain is not OK so if Halal is done after giving pain killer Das can say it may not be still Kutha.

    But das wil avoid to eat it.

    In Muslim dominated Area without Sikhs at all das eats fish,pork or animal killed by self.

    Learn to kill Hare or bird by chopping neck.Best of luck.In west anyway where Halal is sereved it is writtan while west people kill animal with stunning by electricution and then klling and as per Bhai Kahan Singh Ji Nabha animal kiled by Elecricity can be consumed by us.
     
  13. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
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    Dear Vijaydeep and KDS


    I differ a bit on the idea of pain involved in killing animal

    It is kind of hypocracy if you are killing animal then offcourse their is ging to be pain and now you want eat it when their is minimum pain involved. on scientific bases it is really hard to prove which method is less painful many islamic institutes claim halal to be least pain ful but i hardly believe them and in western world where farms are big industry animal are treated badly even before kiling them so anyway lot of pain is involved . And if some body has personal experience of killing a animal ( i think vijaydeep has) then he knows that when you cut the head od hen even in one blow its rest fo body goes into voilent movements and you have to hold it for some time so assuming it to be painless is not good idea
    The best thing as per my knowledge is jatka of animal like goat ( and not poultry) where the animal has no idea what is going to happen and they just feed it and in aflash of second head is removed so it is best way yo kill

    and i think halal is prohibited due to other reason and not due to pain involved in killing .well i can be wromg on that
    but methods could be devised in mordern science to kill animal peacefully and painless manner if somebody takes initiative

    Jatinder Singh
     
  14. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh
    Dear Jatinder Singh Ji,

    Das was just thinking that after head of fowl is off from neck then concetin of brain is cut of from spine and no transfering of signal of pain from body goes to brin which by that time lies on ground.

    while if a blood vessle is cut which lets the blood be drained out till death by anemia but spine intact it may appear that pain of death by loose of blood and pain in neck will be more.

    Das was thinking that hen is vertabrate and may be spine of hen be having bone marrow plus nerous system taking impulse to brain.
    das any way does not know much as he is not from mediacl side.

    Das hope to find more from you.
     
  15. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    Dear KDS Ji,


    First we need t have faith in God and then our action by will of God are our code of conduct or what we do keeping faith in mind.


    Without faith rahit is useless.Only if Rahit can bring faith then only it has any value.
     
  16. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    vijaydeep ji please answer my these questions
     
  17. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    is it possuble to keep rehat in some places and if you are trapped in such a situation then what to do
     
  18. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    btw my views are that rehat was the neccesity of that time thats why guru gobind singh ji started it.if 5ks and rehat are for all times then why guru nanak dev ji didn't started it.
     
  19. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
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    Dear Vijaydeep Singh


    Yes I got your point about spnal cord and brain and you are very right that we precieve main trough thalmic centres in brain and if head is cut off very quickly it should not be causing pain to brain because even though there is movement in the rest of the body but the pain cant be percieved because signal cant reach brain
    and the same is true for all animals and yes hen is also vertebrate like us as it has spinal cord so the same for it

    Thanks ofr your disscusion and now I can say that yes jatka is less pain less but jsut as a reminder the meat we get in Superstores in Western world and now even in india is not jatka and I think one should learn to do Jatkha as it helps when one is alone and canyt get jatkha from other source

    About cutting big blood vessel just like in hallal its just similar to a persom dying due to massive bleeding in which you loose blood an d your heart start racing fast and it try to fulfill needs of body with the less amount of blood available so more speed so it gives you the feeling of impending doom or death and lot of fear arises in a organism and so it releases lot of stress harmones and chemical trying to save it so it may be said that such a meat contains stress ormones if eaten fresh




    Jatinder Singh


    Jatinder Singh
     
  20. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    jhatka is available in india.chickens are sold live in india and anybody can
    see jhatka in front of their eyes i myself had purchased live chickens.and their are meat shops owned by sikhs which sell jhatka
     
  21. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    btw i have heard that animal does not feel pain even in halaal because
    at that time animal is in state of shock
     

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