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Christianity Real Liberation & Salvation

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by dattaswami, Jul 24, 2005.

  1. dattaswami

    dattaswami
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    Real Liberation & Salvation

    This physical world, which consists of the inert objects like Sun, Moon, Stars
    Air, Earth etc., is not the world, which is binding you and this is not
    The world from which you have to attain the liberation or salvation
    If you get salvation from this physical world it is called the death
    Death is not the salvation since even after death you are bound by the bonds
    The bonds are not with the physical world but they are with your family members
    It is this family that constitutes your entire world from which you must be salvated

    The physical world is real and it is unreal for the creator only and not for you
    You are a part and parcel of this world and if you say that this world is unreal
    You too become unreal, your unreal world is your own family, which is created
    By yourself only and why this is unreal? If you analyse, these bonds did not exist
    Before this birth and do not exist after this birth and hence are not existing
    During this birth also, Sankara told that temporary is always unreal
    Therefore, Gita emphasizes for the detachment from these worldly bonds

    Jesus goes one step further and advises you even to hate these family bonds
    This is surprising but if you analyse, I should say, He is absolutely correct
    If you analyse deeply, these family members deserve your hatred and not love
    The reason is that these family members were very vehement enemies to you
    In the previous birth you stole their hard earned property and fought with them
    Now they have come to collect their wealth from you along with the
    Compound interest, they are in the form of wife and children and you are bound

    To pay them according to the force of Karma Chakra i.e., associated with Kala Chakra
    Payment of loans is Karma Chakra and payment in this birth is Kala Chakra
    The same is said “Runanubandha Rupena Pasu Patni Sutalayaah”
    The three strongest bonds are with money, wife and children and these three
    Are called as “Eeshanaas”, which are the stainless steel chains, which never
    Corrode, the secret in the force of these three bonds is only the force of Karma
    The Karma is the payment of the loans with interest and for that you have to earn
    Therefore, you are forced by Karma to earn the money and that is the spontaneous
    Attraction to the money, the Karma is dragging you to earn the money so that
    You can pay to your enemies who are surrounding you for the collection of loans
    Thus these three bonds are inter related and amalgamated by the force of Karma

    ANIL ANTONY
    Universal Spirituality for World Peace
     
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  3. tejinder_singh

    tejinder_singh
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    dear dattaswami, i apologize to be different. Our SGGS does'nt teach us to regret anything because the more you regret, the more will you indulge in that thing. God has made us a part of this world and we should not hate our family members because they are also the Creation of one Supreme power. The way to salvation or getting the light according to our holy Guru is 'Naam Jaap'. Hating family members and sacrificing everything according to me will not help much in attaing enlightment. We should try to live in 'hukam', have a family, and do naam jap.
     
  4. dattaswami

    dattaswami
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    Family Bond-Responsibility To Family-Bond With God


    Gita says ‘Eka Bhakthih Vishishyate’ which means that the person having only one bond with the Lord alone is liberated. The liberation itself means destruction of all the bonds in this world. Without full liberation, one cannot have a strong bond with the Lord. Unless one is completely relieved from the world, one cannot join God. The joining report in the new institution is not possible without complete relief from the previous institution. You cannot partially join the new institution. It cannot be a side employment. Ofcourse such partial bond can be treated as the intermediate stage and is better than no bond. But the aim should not be such partial bond. If you aim at 100 marks, you may get 40 marks and pass. But if you aim at 40 marks only, you will fail. Therefore, let the aim be total liberation from the world and single bond with the God.

    The bond consists of three parts. The service in terms of sacrifice of work and fruit of work comprises ninety-nine paise. Love with mind consists of 2/3rd paise. Remembering through words consists of 1/3rd paise. If you take the case of Sankara, he has donated the whole rupee to the Lord. His love for his mother, words to praise mother and service to mother are diverted towards the Lord. He left his mother for the sake of the Lord. He has donated all the one hundred paise to the Lord. He is the top most beloved of the Lord. He should be our aim. In the beginning stage you cannot divert your work, which is called duty and mental attachment, which is called love to the Lord. At least make a humble beginning by donating the words to the Lord. Go on reading spiritual books and go on chanting his songs. By this you have donated 1/3rd paise to the Lord. Remember that you cannot purchase any item from any shop with 1/3rd paise. Therefore, do not aspire any thing in return from the Lord, for this 1/3rd paise. In the next stage you try to divert your mind towards the Lord, which is 2/3rd paise.

    Do your duties to your family members, but without mental attachment. Such mental detachment has several added advantages. If one is mentally detached from the family members, he will not be hurt if they insult him in future. He will not be disturbed when their behaviour is not correct. He will not suffer if death attacks them. Such mental detachment brings full peace and balance of mind. Due to this he will be always energetic with good health. Therefore such mental detachment is needed even for an atheist. The detached mind cannot keep silent because it is habituated to the attachment. Therefore, attach the mind to the Lord. Such attachment will always give infinite bliss in the life. When you are successful in attaching the mind to the Lord, you are called as devotee. But a devotee can be disturbed. The devotion becomes firm if his intelligence takes a firm decision through knowledge. Therefore, Knowledge gives firm decision to the intelligence (Buddhi) and this makes the devotion of mind (Manas) to be firm. Therefore, Gita started with Buddhi Yoga or Jnana Yoga in the second chapter.

    When the mind is fixed on the Lord with the help of the knowledge of the intelligence, the work will naturally change and will follow the mind. The mind is like the king. The words are like his ministers. The intelligence is like his preacher or Guru. The work is like his army. Therefore, with the help of the words the mind should be diverted to the Lord and it is fixed with the help of the intelligence. The words divert the mind, whereas the intelligence fixes the mind. Therefore, when you have donated words and mind to the Lord and when you are strengthened by the spiritual knowledge your duties and responsibilities, which form the work, will naturally be diverted towards the Lord. The work is always inert item and is controlled by the mind and intelligence.
     
  5. dattaswami

    dattaswami
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    Meaning of PRAVRUTTI



    In this people desire the welfare of their body and family. They love their bodies and their families only. Their real love is not on the God but only on their body and family. When that welfare is disturbed and when it is not possible to rectify it by worldly means, then only they look at God. When you get fever and it is not subsided by the medicines you used, then you are approaching a doctor. Thus God is only an instrument to achieve the welfare of their body and family. They pretend real love on God, which is not real. When you go to the doctor you respect him too much. That respect is not real. That respect is only apparent and the aim of that respect is only that he will cure carefully your disease. These people do not bother about tomorrow. They don’t bother about the hell after death and about the next birth. Their aim is only the temporary happiness confined to this birth only. They worship God for this purpose, which is not true love at all. God also acts accordingly. He postpones all your bad results to the next births like pro-notes with increased interest. He brings the good results from future births with reduced values like the pre-matured deposits. The Lord will not save these people in the hell. They will go to the heaven and when the results of their good deeds are finished, they are thrown back to the earth. In the future births, which are full of difficulties only, these people weep scolding the Lord. But the Lord keeps silent, because He acted according to their prayers only in the previous birth. In this field one can worship the Lord with single face, who is Vishnu, the embodiment of Sattvam quality. With this quality God will help you when you worship. But this quality always requires justice and logic. Therefore, within the rules of the cycle of justice God helps you. He will never harm you for your worship. In this field God in human form is not necessary. God will protect the justice by His power. In this field the aim of the people is not God. Their aim is only protection of justice and their families. Lord Krishna did not fight directly in the war because in this field His power is sufficient to protect the justice. Arjuna was charged with His power and Arjuna fought with the enemies. In this field the devotees can worship formless God or statues and can get apparent and temporary protection in this world.

    Meaning of NIVRUTTI



    In this field people want God only. Their aim is the permanent association with the God and not the temporary results in this world. They never care for the worldly justice. They don’t care for their body or family bonds. Their concentration is always on God. Here the justice is also crossed. Prahlada did not care for his father’s death. God came directly and fought with the enemy in his case. Gopikas left every body and every thing for the sake of Lord Krishna. He liberated them in this world itself. God in human form was required by Gopikas and not by Arjuna. Gopikas wanted to see, touch, talk and live with the God. The Lord came in the human form as Krishna for the sake of Gopikas only.

    Arjuna wanted only the power of God to protect justice by getting back the kingdom. Therefore, Arjuna worshipped statues like Siva Lingam and energetic body like Siva. Lord Krishna was an instrument for Arjuna in achieving his kingdom. The aim of Arjuna was kingdom and not Krishna. But in the case of Gopikas the aim was Krishna and not anything else or anybody else. They crossed even the traditional justice and ran to Brindavanam to dance with Krishna. They were unable to live for even one minute without Krishna. In this field of Nivrutti the Lord comes down in human form and donates Himself to the devotees. Such human form is called as Datta. In this field the Lord has all the three aspects of Brahma, Vishnu and Rudra. He shows Sattvam of Vishnu, Rajas of Brahma and Tamas of Rudra. In this field He gives troubles when you worship Him. Troubling a devotee unnecessarily is Rajas and Tamas. In this field only the real love on God is proved. When God troubles you after your worship and if you are unable to leave Him still then that is real love. Thus single face Datta (Vishnu) is for Pravrutti and three-faced Datta is for Nivrutti.

    God acts according to the field you choose. In Nivrutti only He protects you from hell and takes you to His eternal abode. In this field only He attracts the evil effects of His real devotees and undergoes sufferings to save His devotees. Here the attitude of God is not logic and justice but only pure love. But real devotees oppose this. Therefore, He undergoes the bad results without their knowledge. The God circulates the information regarding Pravrutti and Nivrutti to everybody so that nobody can blame Him later on for their ignorance. Except the motto of information He is not having an intention to attract the people into Nivrutti. He is not benefited in any way by doing so. All the benefit is only for the devotee. The person following the Pravrutti always scolds the Nivrutti. The reason is that he is unable to catch God directly in Nivrutti and therefore, discourages that field with jealousy. When he is unable to succeed in that field he does not want anybody to succeed in that field. He wants to close that field and wants that his field only to remain. Such psychological jealousy is not good because God will punish him. Even though he is incapable he should appreciate others and in such case God will help him to come to Nivrutti. In nutshell God helps in Pravrutti with sympathy only and such help is only in the apparent and temporary rearrangement of your good and bad results. In Nivrutti the fruit is permanent and real and God really loves the devotees.

    If you are unable to follow Nivrutti, please be in Pravrutti at least and never become an atheist. You try constantly to follow the Nivrutti. You might have not reached the goal, but you have left your station. Only a person who is always limited to Pravrutti should worry. The attitude towards Pravrutti or Nivrutti comes from the accumulated Sadhana done in several previous births. Such a person turns spontaneously towards Nivrutti and the association of Satguru is only accidental. In the pearl shell one raindrop fallen becomes the pearl. Even if 100 drops fall on mud pond, all the drops become mud water only. Therefore, the deservingness of the devotee due to previous Sadhana is the most important factor and not the close or long association with Satguru. One may sit on the seashore for several hours but he has only a small tumbler in his hand. He can take only a tumbler of water even after sitting for several hours on the seashore. A fellow may come with a pot but he takes a full pot of water in 5 minutes. The Satguru rains His divine knowledge on all the people impartially so that He should not be blamed later on. The knowledge is essential like the rain, but more essential is the deservingness of the devotee that developed based on his sincere spiritual efforts for the past several births continuously (Purva Janma Samskara).
     
  6. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    Well Dear Bro Datta Swami Ji

    Das will recomend you to read the 14th Chapter of Holy Gita and if possible try to search its online content.

    As an ex Hindu Das can say that Gita is truly by God but often not well understood by hindu breathern.

    Gita clrealy state in that chapter that one has to stay away from three Qualitees of Stva Guna(deed of good),Rajo Guna(Practiclae or Material Quality) and Tamo Guna(Dark or -ve one).

    and for that even if we desire or have kaman for that then we will still be in Satva guna.

    to attain Nishkan Karm yoga or unioon with desireless deeds we need to be in state by mrecy of Lord Krishna that we are not the doer but God is the one.

    Often term Lord by used by Lord Krishna in gita and was shown in Virat(Huge) Rupa(Form).

    As in that form whole universe was there so there was no form but all form.

    When devotee of krishan sees that Virat Rupa of Krishan ie Krishna in all forms then that mohan or Krishna becomes formless as all forms are of Krishna.

    That one does not live in golok(world in unverse where god of viahnavs Krishna lives) but in whole Universe.Theroy of Virat roops tells us that as we are ourself Part of Krishan our urself the Krishna so we have no control over ourselves likeBrain control hand so does formless Krishna controls us the way Krishna of Gokul was controled and same will reapet in coming dwaper age.

    Krishnam Vande Jagat Guru that may also means that Krishna always worshipped Jagat Guru ,who is Yogeshwar or God of unioin or salvation who was not born of Devaki nor was killed by hunter but we are bron out of that God.
     
  7. dattaswami

    dattaswami
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    Gita is the special spiritual knowledge, which can be told by the Lord only. Gita is Prajnanam and not simple Jnanam. It stands as the special identity card of the Lord. Gita establishes the justice in this world and simultaneously shows the path for the individual liberation. The former path of justice is called as Pravrutti and the latter path of the individual liberation is called as Nivrutti.

    Both these fields must be clearly understood and must be isolated clearly demarcated (Pravruttimcha Nivruttimcha---Gita). In both the individual aspect and the social aspect exist (Lokasangrahamevapi—Gita). In Pravrutti one has to practice the justice at the individual level and propagate the justice at the social level for the peace of the world. In Nivrutti also, one has to uplift at the individual level and uplift others at the social level. In both the fields the Lord is pleased but the pleasure of the Lord in Nivrutti is infinite. In both the fields, the obstruction for the success is also the same, which are the side attraction and that is the attraction towards these worldly bonds.

    When the excess attraction in these worldly bonds is reduced, one succeeds in Pravrutti. When these worldly bonds are completely destroyed due to the intensive attraction present in the new bond formed with the Lord, one succeeds in Nivrutti. In Pravrutti the attraction towards the Lord is not required and here only the knowledge of the unreality of these worldly bonds is only required. By such knowledge even if the worldly bonds are not cut completely, at least the bonds become weak. In Pravrutti there is no need of the complete destruction of these worldly bonds.

    But in Nivrutti the complete destruction of these worldly bonds is essential, but the cause for this destruction should be the new bond formed with the Lord (Eka bhaktih---Gita). In fact the bond with the Lord alone can destroy these worldly bonds. The knowledge of the unreality of these bonds can only weaken these bonds and cannot completely destroy them. Therefore the Lord is personally required in Nivrutti for the formation of such a new bond. The Lord in human form is the best for the real and complete formation of such a new bond as the case of Gopikas with Lord Krishna.

    It is the climax of ignorance to think that the spiritual knowledge is unrelated to the present worldly affairs. People think that the spiritual knowledge is always related to the upper world only and this shows their ignorance. The Lord is simultaneous ruler of this world as well as the upper world. The Lord can grant any materialistic boon in this world and also can give simultaneously the protection in the upper world. The Lord is also involved in the social problems of this world because He is ultimately governing this society also.

    There is His government underlying in the present human government as the foundation. The present human government is like the castle seen above the ground. But the government of the Lord is like the hidden foundation present inside the ground. Jesus always referred this government of the Lord. Lord Krishna also exhibited the existence of this invisible government of the Lord by showing the vision of His cosmic form (Viswaroopam).

    Arjuna decided to withdraw from the war and thereby he thought that his grandfather Bishma and the teacher Drona would escape from death. By this Dharmaraja will not become the king. Both the punishment of the evil and protection of justice were withdrawn by Arjuna. The actual petitioner was withdrawing from his own case. Then in such case Krishna, the advocate of Arjuna need not worry.

    Arjuna thought that he brought Krishna as his helper in his own case. If the petitioner withdraws his own case, the court accepts and leaves the case in the present human government. But the ultimate government will not accept it. Even if the petitioner does not file his case, the case is registered in the court of the ultimate divine government.

    Therefore Krishna turned the tables diagonally opposite. In His exhibited Viswaroopam, Krishna showed that He Himself was killing the evil opponents called as Kauravas. This picture proved that Krishna is the petitioner and Arjuna was His helper. The petitioner will do his work even in the absence of the helper. You may think that the kingdom belongs to Pandavas for, which the war was taking place and therefore Arjuna should be the real petitioner and war must be his work.

    You will misunderstand like this as long as you think Krishna as an ordinary human being. But Krishna was Lord in human form and the entire creation was His kingdom. Therefore the society present on this tiny earth is also a small part of His kingdom. Every living being is under the rule of His divine government and therefore any affair of the individual or the society is His subject only.

    Arjuna understood the meaning of this vision and that his grandfather and teacher cannot live even if he withdraws from the war. Therefore he thought that it would be better to follow the instruction of the Lord and kill them so that at least he will please the Lord.


    At the Lotus feet of Datta Swami
    ANIL ANTONY
    Universal Spirituality for World Peace
     
  8. Humble_Gursevak

    Humble_Gursevak
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    The same is said “Runanubandha Rupena Pasu Patni Sutalayaah”
    The three strongest bonds are with money, wife and children and these three

    Datta swami Ji..... does Gita says ....... wife, children are bonds or stainless steel chains on MEN ....so gita is just for men not for women or children......women or children are men's property like house, money, cows, goats etc.........and man need to detach himself from these worldly bonds. This is the way women and children are treated in the ancient scriptures.


    Therefore, Gita emphasizes for the detachment from these worldly bonds

    Sri Guru Granth Sahib does not teach us to treat women or children like property of men. Women are given equal status as individual human being. Men and women are one soul in two bodies. This universe cannot run with one.

    Gita establishes the justice in this world and simultaneously shows the path for the individual liberation.

    So Gita only establishes the justice for men and only Men are shown the path for liberation. Women are not individual they do not need the liberation or Salvation because they are just men's property.

    The world from which you have to attain the liberation or salvation.......

    The bonds are not with the physical world but they are with your family members
    It is this family that constitutes your entire world from which you must be salvated


    If scriptures are telling you Family members are bondage and to get salvation, first you need liberation from your family .........sir do not create family,…… do not get married and have children…….SGGS teaches us to live a life of householder……that is our karma…… only then one can achieve Salvation.


    I am sad, why I or any women be part of, or read scriptures where they are degraded.

    How can you say.....Universal Spirituality for World Peace......when women and children are not part of it.

    Khoji.
     
  9. dattaswami

    dattaswami
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  10. dattaswami

    dattaswami
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    Family Bond-Responsibility To Family-Bond With God


    Gita says ‘Eka Bhakthih Vishishyate’ which means that the person having only one bond with the Lord alone is liberated. The liberation itself means destruction of all the bonds in this world. Without full liberation, one cannot have a strong bond with the Lord. Unless one is completely relieved from the world, one cannot join God. The joining report in the new institution is not possible without complete relief from the previous institution. You cannot partially join the new institution. It cannot be a side employment. Ofcourse such partial bond can be treated as the intermediate stage and is better than no bond. But the aim should not be such partial bond. If you aim at 100 marks, you may get 40 marks and pass. But if you aim at 40 marks only, you will fail. Therefore, let the aim be total liberation from the world and single bond with the God.

    The bond consists of three parts. The service in terms of sacrifice of work and fruit of work comprises ninety-nine paise. Love with mind consists of 2/3rd paise. Remembering through words consists of 1/3rd paise. If you take the case of Sankara, he has donated the whole rupee to the Lord. His love for his mother, words to praise mother and service to mother are diverted towards the Lord. He left his mother for the sake of the Lord. He has donated all the one hundred paise to the Lord. He is the top most beloved of the Lord. He should be our aim. In the beginning stage you cannot divert your work, which is called duty and mental attachment, which is called love to the Lord. At least make a humble beginning by donating the words to the Lord. Go on reading spiritual books and go on chanting his songs. By this you have donated 1/3rd paise to the Lord. Remember that you cannot purchase any item from any shop with 1/3rd paise. Therefore, do not aspire any thing in return from the Lord, for this 1/3rd paise. In the next stage you try to divert your mind towards the Lord, which is 2/3rd paise.

    Do your duties to your family members, but without mental attachment. Such mental detachment has several added advantages. If one is mentally detached from the family members, he will not be hurt if they insult him in future. He will not be disturbed when their behaviour is not correct. He will not suffer if death attacks them. Such mental detachment brings full peace and balance of mind. Due to this he will be always energetic with good health. Therefore such mental detachment is needed even for an atheist. The detached mind cannot keep silent because it is habituated to the attachment. Therefore, attach the mind to the Lord. Such attachment will always give infinite bliss in the life. When you are successful in attaching the mind to the Lord, you are called as devotee. But a devotee can be disturbed. The devotion becomes firm if his intelligence takes a firm decision through knowledge. Therefore, Knowledge gives firm decision to the intelligence (Buddhi) and this makes the devotion of mind (Manas) to be firm. Therefore, Gita started with Buddhi Yoga or Jnana Yoga in the second chapter.

    When the mind is fixed on the Lord with the help of the knowledge of the intelligence, the work will naturally change and will follow the mind. The mind is like the king. The words are like his ministers. The intelligence is like his preacher or Guru. The work is like his army. Therefore, with the help of the words the mind should be diverted to the Lord and it is fixed with the help of the intelligence. The words divert the mind, whereas the intelligence fixes the mind. Therefore, when you have donated words and mind to the Lord and when you are strengthened by the spiritual knowledge your duties and responsibilities, which form the work, will naturally be diverted towards the Lord. The work is always inert item and is controlled by the mind and intelligence.

    At the Lotus feet of Datta Swami
    ANIL ANTONY
    Universal Spirituality for World Peace
     
  11. dattaswami

    dattaswami
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    Bonds hindering the spiritual progress & overcoming them


    There are four strong bonds, which hinder the spiritual progress.
    1) The bond with the wife 2) The bond with the money 3) The bond with the child
    4) The bond with ones body and life.


    Avadhoota can only be the soul who has cut all these four bonds. A Sanyasi could cut the first three bonds but not the fourth bond. A Sanyasi takes food, drinks water, sleeps and leaks the sperm periodically. The Sanyasi avoided the wife but not the desire for the sex. The eating, drinking, sleep and sex are the four biological needs of the body. The Avadhoota lives maintaining his body without these four needs and his body is beyond the rules of the nature. His body is a divine body maintained by the super power (Maya) of the Lord. The state of Avadhoota is complete liberation and such complete salvation is possible only by the complete grace of the Lord. Avadhoota is just an inert house of the Lord. There is no soul in that body. The soul also is a part of the nature and so the soul becomes a part of the inert house of the Lord.
    The Avadhoota thinks talks or does anything only by the will of the Lord. It is one system and not two in one. Avadhoota is one hundred percent Lord. It is the state of the goal and there is no journey further. He is called as Siddha and not Sadhaka. Even the Sanyasi is a Sadhaka who is still travelling towards that state. However, a stone can be also equated to Avadhoota because it also has complete salvation but the Lord is not dwelling in it. The Salvation must be attained through the devotion of the Lord, which will lead to the state of Avadhoota. If simple salvation is attained without devotion it will lead to the state of a stone.

    Among the three bonds the strongest bond is the bond with the children. The wife can help in the spiritual effort (Sadhana) and therefore she is called as ‘Saha DharmaCharini’. The sex, which is a biological need, is a matter of attraction of few minutes or at the maximum few hours. This little time is negligible compared to the long lifetime and the energy dedicated to the Lord. But the bond with the children persists in all the times and requires the expenditure of the energy continuously. The Bond with the money also increases due to this bond with children.
    For the sake of the children people become currupt and try to rob others. In such process they are doing lot of injustice. The strength of this bond is reduced by realization and with this not only the individual salvation in the upper world is achieved, but also the justice in this world can be easily established. This is the reason why the Lord spoke about the detachment of worldly bonds for the establishment of the justice. He says that He is born to establish the Justice, but He does not speak about the rules of the Justice.
    The Government, Police and even the courts quote the rules of Justice, which cannot establish the Justice. People are trying to misinterpret these rules and win the case. In Gita the Lord attempted for the detachment of these bonds, which are responsible for the injustice. He attacked the problem at the basic level. Therefore, the strength of the bond with the children is proportional to the injustice in the world. This bond also hinders the spiritual elevation. Unless the strongest bond is cut, salvation is impossible. Without the salvation, the single bond with the Lord is impossible. You can analyze Vyasa, Arjuna and Dhritaraashtra who are representing the three above average, average and below average levels.

    Vyasa is the highest Guru and his birthday is celebrated as Guru Purnima. The divine prostitutes who are of the lowest level mocked such a highest Guru due to this strongest bond. Vyasa was running after his son and was mocked. He was not mocked for his bond with the divine lady called ‘Gritaachi’ because it was just a temporary bond for few minutes. She gave birth to ‘Suka’ through whom Vyasa had permanent bond for twenty years. For the sake of wife he wasted only few minutes but for the sake of son he wasted twenty years. Arjuna was also bound by this strongest bond. He was killing all his relatives on the order of the Lord. He was prepared to leave the kingdom, but when his son Abhimanyu died, he stopped the war. The war is the work of the Lord to punish the evil people. Therefore, the bond with the Lord is not stronger than the bond with his son. The Lord performed the surgery and broke this strongest bond by killing even the other children (Upa Pandavas). The Lord wanted to lift Arjuna.
    Bhagavatgita was the medicine, which could not work to break the strongest bond. Therefore, the Lord performed the surgery and lifted Arjuna and other Pandavas also as they surrendered to Him. The Lord lifted Vyasa by preaching him through the divine prostitutes. For Vyasa the medicine was sufficient but for Arjuna surgery was required. Since Vyasa and Pandavas are His devotees, the Lord did everything for their upliftment. Dhritarashtra is not a devotee. He knows that Krishna is the Lord. He saw the Viswarupam. He advised his sons to arrange a feast and attract the Lord to help them. He tried to grab the wealth of his own brother Pandu who only conquerred the whole kingdom. When Pandu went to the forest, Dhritaraashtra was made the representative of the king. He became blind with this strongest bond and did not mind to do injustice to the son’s of his own brother. The whole wealth actually belongs to his brother. If he passes an order as a king, his son cannot hinder it.
    He has the support of Bhishma. Bhishma took a oath that he will protect the king. Therefore he need not fear for his son. His wife Gandhari found fault always with her husband and her sons, but at the last when her children were killed she gave the curse to Lord Krishna forgetting that He is the Lord. Such is the strength of this illusory bond! Today Dhritaraashtra represents people. People are trying to earn the money for the sake of their children and they are prepared to do injustice to any extent for this. Like Dhritaraashtra they want to please the Lord by worship to help their children. Therefore if the Sadhaka can cut this strongest bond all the other two bonds can be easily cut.

    Gopikas represent the state of a real Avadhoota. In the absence of Krishna, they forgot all the biological needs of the body and they jumped into the fire when they heard that Lord Krishna left the body. They only could cut the bond with their bodies and bond with their lives also. The Lord could cut their bonds by dancing with them, by attracting their children to do mischief and by stealing their butter. By the dance in Brindavanam (Raasakeli), the husband-wife bond was cut. Their own children stole butter on the order of Krishna and due to this the mother-child bond was cut. By giving butter to Krishna, which was their hard-earned wealth, their bond with money was also cut.
    Like this Gopikas only could cut all the bonds and achieved the highest grace, which is the fifteenth upper most world called Goloka. In the case of Hanuman, he fought with the Lord for the sake of his mother to protect king Yayathi. Therefore Bhagavatam, which contains the story of the Gopikas at the end is the most sacred scripture, which could give salvation to Pareekshith in seven days. The very first verse of Bhagavatam speaks about this strongest bond of Vyasa. The love in these worldly bonds can be cut only by the love on the Lord. A diamond can be cut only by another diamond. These bonds with human beings can be cut only by the bond with the Lord in the form of human being only. The bond with formless God, or the bond with a form in the upper world like Vishnu and Siva, or the bond with a statue or a photo cannot cut your family bonds. These are stones, which fail to cut the diamond. Gopikas could cut these human bonds by their bond with Lord Krishna who is in the human form only. Your question is very important because it deals with the actual journey towards the goal. For us neither the analysis of goal nor the analysis of a soul is so important as the analysis of the path and journey. The goal can be realized even after reaching it and need not be known now itself. Since the soul is travelling towards the goal, the soul is already not the goal. This one point is sufficient regarding the soul. All the concentration is to be put up on the analysis of the real path and the mode of the journey.

    At the Lotus feet of Datta Swami
    ANIL ANTONY
    Universal Spirituality for World Peace
     
  12. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh
    Das is repeating the things which beloved devotee Datt Swami Bhagat Ji have not underserstood.
    Well which is the knowildge in eartt which omni present God Krishna Mohan is not imparting to us.

    Then nivritti (to not to do) and Prviti (to do) is in in hand of the Man or Human.

    In fact had not Devki and Vasudev slept Togather then incarnation of DEvkinanadan was not possiible.

    That lord had to flea from Kal Yavan and had to take help of Muchkund to kill Kal Yavana.

    Had to die with the arrow of hunter on the feet with deer eye.

    Just to prove to not go after the form which is made or destroyed. And

    Had that form was the cearter then where did that formed creator stood while making first creation.

    In fact who made the space where he stood to make the universe?

    Das needs the answer and that is in Virat Rups of holy Gita.



    Is any such upliftment being possible without the will of Krishna or can a person be able to do it by own?

    While that persoan is well within the body of Krishna.Can your hand act without the control of brain?

    Is omni potant God so weak that can not contraol the body part ie componant of the unvcerse?



    This all is description but not the explantion that who is the Karta(Doer) or Who is the Karan(Reason) for all that?

    Did not God in Krishna's body spok of the fact that if you will be Karta(Doer apprantly) then you will bear the fruit(result) of those deeds?

    That is that till we have ourself behled as doer our ego will let us know ourself and not the one who composes us and our surrounding ie your God Krishan in Virat or unlimited form(Rupa).

    No limit in space nor in power or if there is limit then not the God at all.



    Well these worldly forms are ntoing but form of Krishna like your Body is your form.

    We can not be such naive that to get met vijaydeep we will avoid the body of vijaydeep.

    As world is part or rather universe in part of the body of Krishna so are bond with it by the will of Krishna.Be it old bonds or new bonds all are by God or who else?



    Reason is the omni potance of God.

    And there is no upper world as such as we have lower world as both are from of God ands made by God and can be destroyed as well.

    There are two ultimate stages ie not realiseing the God even aftering knowing That by books like holy Gita.

    And to realising that God with or without Gita but by mercy of God.



    Well the cosmic form is true and still exist and that has all form so not a single form.It is your as well as vijaydeep's form.It is hidden till it itself want us to not to see it.

    When it wants us to see it is is visible.Dear it is in the contraol of that cosmic form.It was shown to Mata Yashoda also while opeing the mouth and in the court of Kauravs also when they tried to imprision that form but can be shown to any one any where that Lord want that person to see.



    Well ,We nned to understand that Arjuna was only the medium to or a reason to let Gitas be writtan in fact inside Arjunas thought it was Krishan who made him to follow what he was doing. The willl of Arjuna not fightinh was not his own but of Krishan.

    In fact it was Krishan inside Arjuna who became weak and ask another Krishna inside Dwarkadheesh for help.What was the diffreance between the two?



    This means that we are under the control of that God so understanding that as human or devine is not in our Hands but in That Gods hand.Like Jesus came to saul and made him good St Paul so did lord Krishna did brought in goood light to Arjuna by self.

    We do not foprget to see Krishna in eaqch and every atom and in each and every ordinay human being.

    Krishna was not an oridnary human being nor Was Jesus but all oridinary Human beings are nothing but Krishna and inspite of going after that man who fled Kal Yavan better serve those Krishna around you by will of Krishna.

    Krishna did made many of the people whowere against him to his side like Jambwant so it is blessing of God to make us move on right direction.
    Then now das will only recomed you one thing.

    Gita is a part of Mahbhaarat writtan by Lord Ved Vysa,there Sanjay saw the war and narrated to Dhritrashtrta so not only Arjuna but Sanjay and Dhritrashtra were also the audience.

    If by will of God Arjuna understood but Dhritrathra did not and later tried to kill Bhhema who killed Duryodhan but was unsuccessful due to act of Krishna(replaceing bheeam with his statue).

    So it was Lord Ved Vysa the one of the great teacher of Vedanta.

    Das recomend you to read his Brahmsutra which he wrote by the name of Vadrayan.

    His son wrote Shrimad Bhagvat(Sukdev Swami Ji).

    He said that he like the actss or Leela or Krishna but worship Nirgun(no qulaity as all qulity installed).

    As lord Krsihna who was born was equiped with 16 arts or 16 Kala wirthin him so he had a limit or why else did we left body after 100 years and could not reatin it till now.

    And as per the Writer of Mahbharat(incluyidng Gita) Ved Vysa only worhty to worship is that Krishna who is in all including in Ganesha who is in fact Istdev or worshipped god of Krishna(who was born).

    Community of Krsihna was Ganpatya(those who see Ganesh in all and within visit www.udasi.org) by that.
     
  13. rosethorne

    rosethorne
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    WJKK
    WJKF

    Dear Vijaydeepji, You are really very Heavy weight person, I really salute you. It is not the question that Mr.Dattaswami is not understanding your reply but the thing is that he is amazed to see Gursikhs with the knowledge of Hindu scripts. His Fingers are in his mouth surely now, and he will be thinking of that why should he getinto this Forum. He is Chanting always That GOD is Omnipotent and He can be on Earth in Human form. He is not Claiming for Real Lord but for his survival that you can see at his website. He is Claiming that He Is PariPUranavtaara Means incarnation of Lord Krishna. And he is claiming also that whatever you give to your God will not reach to God because other's God is not in human form but how can a cunning person think that how can we or anybody can give anything to The GOD.



    sUhI mhlw 5 ] Gr mih Twkuru ndir n AwvY ] gl mih pwhxu lY ltkwvY ]1] Brmy BUlw swkqu iPrqw ] nIru ibrolY Kip Kip mrqw ]1] rhwau ] ijsu pwhxkau Twkuru khqw ] Ehu pwhxu lY aus kau fubqw ]2] gunhgwr lUx hrwmI ] pwhx nwv n pwrigrwmI ]3] gur imil nwnk Twkuru jwqw ] jil Qil mhIAil pUrn ibDwqw ]4]3]9]{pMnw739}


    SOOHEE, FIFTH MEHL: Within the home of his own self, he does not even come to see his Lord and Master. And yet, around his neck, he hangs a stone god. || 1 || The faithless cynic wanders around, deluded by doubt. He churns water, and after wasting his life away, he dies. || 1 || Pause || That stone, which he calls his god, that stone pulls him down and drowns him. || 2 || O sinner, you are untrue to your own self; a boat of stone will not carry you across. || 3 || Meeting the Guru, O Nanak, I know my Lord and Master. The Perfect Architect of Destiny is pervading and permeating the water, the land and the sky. || 4 || 3 || 9 || {Page739}
     
    #12 rosethorne, Sep 28, 2005
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2005
  14. dattaswami

    dattaswami
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    Dear Vijay deep singh;


    Tell me how many poeple recognised Krishna as Lord when came in Human form?

    and How many consider Him as God after His death?

    Anil
     
  15. rosethorne

    rosethorne
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    Dear Dattaswamiji,
    In the time of MABHARATA every sipahi of Kaurwaas or Pandwaas know the exsistence of Shri Krishna. And all the Mathura knows about him. The question is that why you are anterdhyan for so many days. Did you find my identity? And why you changed your front page of website named universal-spirituality.org. Hey God Mr.Dattaswami pls tell me.
     
  16. rosethorne

    rosethorne
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    Hey Mr.Dattaswami I urged you to come again at this forum and you respected me thanks a lot. But if A person Claiming as God then How can he come to a calling of a true Gursikh. It is My GURU"S grace which dragged you here again. Just remmember my other words It will be your's soon. Bye, Have sweet dreams of Gursikhs.
     
  17. dattaswami

    dattaswami
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    Dear rosethorne;

    My question was how many identified Krishna as the God?
     
  18. dattaswami

    dattaswami
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    I have come here to share and discuss the knowledge but not for preaching. Because, I am also a human being like any other. Do not be under the impression that I have come here for preaching. Do not get even distracted by my words at the end (at the lotus feet of Shri datta swami ..). That is simply related to my practice. I am not imposing it on any body. You are most welcome to discuss, to comment, to counter ... anything you like on this knowledge.

    I can claim any belief. My belief does not necessarily please the Lord. Whatever was preached by Lord is important. That has to be followed. Because finally He is only going to bless us not belief. For getting His blessing, we should follow the path preached by Him.

    Ex: If water is there in a beaker. I have a very strong belief that it is cold water. I put my finger and found it hot. Here, 'Water is cold' is only my belief and need be true also. What is the truth here is that water is hot, which is opposite to my belief.

    Truth is important not the belief. Truth is the one preached by Lord. True belief is the right one, which will be in line with the preaching of Lord. Will any father please with his son if his son does not follow any of his words? Likewise Lord comes down to preach the
    divine knowledge and uplift the people. If we do not listen to him or follow His words, then we cannot claim that we have got devotion (love towards Lord). Lord is father of all the individual souls.

    Please for God's sake do not consider this as preaching. Once again I am stressing I am a human being like any other. If you think that this is not the right perspective, please tell me your views. I am ready to accept and correct myself.

    Please accept my apologies, if this is not relevant and you can discard this message.

    At the Lotus feet of Datta Swami
    ANIL ANTONY
    antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org
    http://www.universal-spirituality.org
    Universal Spirituality for World Peace
     
  19. dattaswami

    dattaswami
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    Why have you superimposed your face on that of past incarnations? Will that not shock sincere devotees of other incarnations or religions? No other incarnation in the past did such a thing.
    ============================
    One of the friends of My devotee also asked a similar question and I was thinking to answer this. The original background was different. When some of My devotees were fortunate to have some visions on seeing Me, a point was noted by them. In all those visions the face was My face only. The devotees who did not have such visions were anxious to hear about the visions from the other devotees. Based on the explanations some devotees decorated My face in different forms so that the other devotees may have some satisfaction by seeing the visions indirectly.

    Originally these photos were restricted to the circle of My devotees only. When the Universal Spirituality was started as a Mission, My devotees suggested using these photos. I agreed based on one concept, i.e., when the same face is present in all the pictures it would give a psychological impression that the same God appeared in different forms. The face is the real identity of a person. Unfortunately, the pictures of various deities and incarnations were only the imaginary drawings of artists. But, they included different faces in these imaginary diagrams. This will give an unconscious impression that the deities and incarnations are quite different and the idea of one God does not become strong.

    I have super imposed My face on the faces of deities and incarnations for whom the real photos were not present. Don’t you think that a real face is better than the imaginary face? My face and the imaginary faces on the photos are constituted by five elements only and there is no difference. I did not agree to super impose My face on the face of Shri Shirdi Sai Baba, because His real photo exists. For this concept of one God, this single face helps. This single real face need not be mine only. In fact you can also super impose your face in the faces of these deities and incarnations to explain that concept. It is only just a pictorial model. I will appreciate equally for two merits. 1) The face is real and not imaginary and truth is better than false imagination. 2) The face is single and this point does not exist in the imaginary faces.

    In the spiritual field the only two impurities, which are the two layers that cover our two eyes are egoism and jealousy. Nobody is exceptional in these two impurities. Sadhana is only the eye operation to remove these two layers from our two eyes. Then only one can accept the existence of God and finally accept the existence of God in Human incarnation. When two eyes are completely covered by these two layers, one does not accept even in the existence of God. If the two layers are partially operated, the human being accepts the existence of God but not the human incarnation. When these two layers are completely removed, the devotee recognizes the human incarnation like Hanuman recognizing Rama.

    Because of these two layers many people did not recognize the human incarnations. Some recognized and respected but did not worship. A few recognized and also worshipped. Sometimes the human incarnation was also killed due to the intensity of these two layers as in the case of Lord Jesus. Lord Mohammed also had to fight with people constantly because He tried to unite the various sub-religions in Islam. Sankara was killed by black magic because He condemned all the sub-religions and united them. Swami Dayananda tried to bring out the real heart of Vedas and was killed by food poisoning. Therefore, we must carefully watch the various effects of these two layers present within us before we analyze the object. The subjective analysis is very important before the objective analysis. Sankara told that unless the mind is purified from these impurities (Chitta Suddhi), recognition of God and recognition of Human Incarnation finally (Jnana Yoga) is not possible.

    I have answered not only your question but also the root of your question. Previously the super imposition of face might not have been done due to the absence of photography and computer graphics. However, when Hanuman did not agree Krishna as Rama, Krishna did the same computer graphics by His divine power and super imposed the face of Rama on His face. You may not believe if I say that the same face of Lord Krishna was decorated by the dress of the face of Rama. Due to change in the dress the face appears different. You will find this fact in My photos also. Actually, it is the same face but appears different due to different external dress. Thus the human body is only the external dress and the single actor present in all these roles is the same Lord. Hanuman could not recognize Krishna as Rama due to this external dress only.

    When we see a film actor in the role of Rama in the cinema, the devotees look him as Rama only. They do not see the inner actor but only the external role. But some people call him by the name of the actor and they see only the inner actor and not the external role. When the Lord comes as human incarnation the inner actor is the Lord and the outer role is the human being. This is just reverse of the above. In the case of human incarnation also the devotees see the Lord who is the inner actor and not the external role, which is the human being. But ordinary people see only the external human being and not the inner actor who is the Lord.

    Therefore, whether it is the world drama or a drama in this world, devotees only look at the Lord and the other people only look at the human being. When I was decorated in the dress of the Lord, I told My devotees like this "The Lord is hidden in Me and wants to give the fame to this external human being. I am just reversing this point and brought out the inner Lord to outside in the form of this decoration and hidden Myself inside the decoration. I want to say that the inner hidden Lord must be seen by all of you, who has done all these wonderful things and you must give credit to the Lord only. The Lord hided the truth and I revealed the truth".


    At the Lotus feet of Datta Swami
    ANIL ANTONY
    antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org
    http://www.universal-spirituality.org
    Universal Spirituality for World Peace
     
  20. rosethorne

    rosethorne
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    Dear Mr.Dattaswamiji I know that in front of me is Anil Antony But I want to know That If you are Apologising then where is Mr.Dattaswami Who is Behind you. And if you clarify the matter then that means You are trying to clear his image. But If you aRE there or Mr.Dattaswami was, You both are Lier. You both are lieng either in this forum or in your website. If Mr.Dattaswami is able to convert a girl into a boy as per his website's miracle link states then why not my identity can he open by you or Mr.Dattaswami. Don't even try to grab a Gursikh into the words. It will be very Heavy on you by the GOD.
     
  21. dattaswami

    dattaswami
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    Dear rosethorne;

    One should approach human incarnation of God for getting knowledge only.

    Other things like, past, future, identity etc you can get from an astrologer.

    No human incarnation will encourage wordly things, His aim will be the spiritual upliftment of the soul, not wordly upliftment.

    At the Lotus feet of Datta Swami
    ANIL ANTONY
    antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org
    http://www.universal-spirituality.org
    Universal Spirituality for World Peace
     

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