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India Reading Calculated Banis

Discussion in 'Breaking News' started by Hardip Singh, Mar 6, 2013.

  1. Hardip Singh

    Hardip Singh India
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    Reading Calculated Banis
    By Gurjeet Singh of Delhi

    In stubborn mindedness (Mann-Hatha), many count beads (Maalaa), many read calculated Banis or Paaths, many perform calculated prayers, and so on. This is the nature of the worldly, calculating mind (The Manmukh). This is the way the sense-blind mind thinks.

    The Gurbani declares that no one can Realize God by such calculations or accounting. The Gurbani indicates that all calculations are in egotism (Haumai). It is nothing but wanderings “in duality or Maya”, a sign of (Manmukhtaa).

    • ਤੂੰ ਗਣਤੈ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਸਚੇ ਅਲਖ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥: Toon ganatai kinai na paaio sache alakh apaaraa: No one has attained You by clever calculations, O True, Unseen and Infinite Being (sggs 140).
    • ਹਉਮੈ ਸਭਾ ਗਣਤ ਹੈ ਗਣਤੈ ਨਉ ਸੁਖੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥: Haumai sabhaa ganat hai ganatai naou sukh naahi: All accounting is in egotism, in these, there is no Peace (sggs 36).

    • ਗਣਤੈ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਰਮੀਤਾ ॥: Ganatai prabhoo na paaeeai doojai bharmeetaa: God cannot be obtained by counting; (by doing so the man only) wanders in duality or Maya (sggs 510).

    • ਤੂ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਅਗਣਤੁ ਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਗਣਤੈ ॥: Too karata aapi aganat hai sabh jagg vichi ganatai: You Yourself, O Creator, are incalculable, while the entire world is within the realm of calculation (sggs 314).
     

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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Hardip ji

    This topic is interesting, and important too! I wonder if you would tell a little more about how you found the ad/poster that is uploaded. And also delve in some to what those in the ad/poster were communicating.

    It should turn out to be an interesting discussion.
     
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  4. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    This GUY is INFAMOUS for this type of stunt..he is the one who started that 300 saal Guru de naal..counting SIKHI form 1699 and disregarding the earlier NINE GURUS.....also making students WRITE the Mool mantar 50,000 times to get prizes like handphones bicycles radios etc....Poor studnets who cnat afford to buy copybooks for ordinary school work..bought and wasted hundreds of thousnads of copybooks on this stupid contest..
    He is also the oen who insisted on calling this kaula lady MATA klaual and persisted for over 12 years....until the Akal takhat finally told him NOT to..as MATA title is reserved solely for GURU wives/mothers only...

    This is another totally useless STUNT.
     
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  5. aristotle

    aristotle
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    A simple case of demand and supply.
    People prefer easy cakes to get profits and successes, these self-proclaimed babas/saints give them their placebos.
    Ignorance isn't bliss..
     
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  6. findingmyway

    findingmyway
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    I thought it would be a good idea to explore the shabads mentioned at the beginning in more detail so here they are in full with my understanding inspired by Prof Sahib Singh's Darpan.

    Ang 140
    ਪਉੜੀ ॥
    ਮਾਹਾ ਰੁਤੀ ਸਭ ਤੂੰ ਘੜੀ ਮੂਰਤ ਵੀਚਾਰਾ ॥ਤੂੰ ਗਣਤੈ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਸਚੇ ਅਲਖ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥
    ਪੜਿਆ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਿਸੁ ਲਬੁ ਲੋਭੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰਾ ॥ਨਾਉ ਪੜੀਐ ਨਾਉ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਵੀਚਾਰਾ ॥
    ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਨੁ ਖਟਿਆ ਭਗਤੀ ਭਰੇ ਭੰਡਾਰਾ ॥ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਦਰਿ ਸਚੈ ਸਚਿਆਰਾ ॥
    ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਜੀਉ ਪਰਾਣੁ ਹੈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ਸਚਾ ਸਾਹੁ ਇਕੁ ਤੂੰ ਹੋਰੁ ਜਗਤੁ ਵਣਜਾਰਾ ॥੬॥

    Akaal Purakh can be remembered anyday, any time, any hour so there is no special hour for remembrance. No-one has been able to find you by counting. Those who do those are full of greed and pride. There is no special time to join yourself with the True Guru’s teachings, think and incorporate this into our life. Those who live as Gurmukhs are the true Bhagats. Those who have incorporated Naam (truthful living) into their lives understand its true value. This life is given to each of us by you and Waheguru is present in every person. Only Waheguru is ever present. Every other life comes and goes.

    LESSON: Don’t waste time on rituals and compartmentalising your life but focus on being the best you can and being connected to Akaal Purakh always.

    Ang 36
    ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥
    ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਰੋਗੁ ਨ ਤੁਟਈ ਹਉਮੈ ਪੀੜ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਨਾਮੇ ਰਹੈ ਸਮਾਇ ॥
    ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਇ ॥੧॥ਮਨ ਰੇ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
    ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਾਲਾਹਿ ਤੂ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ਹਰਿ ਇਕੋ ਦਾਤਾ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਦੂਜਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
    ਸਬਦਿ ਸਾਲਾਹੀ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਸਹਜੇ ਹੀ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ਸਭ ਨਦਰੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਵੇਖਦਾ ਜੈ ਭਾਵੈ ਤੈ ਦੇਇ ॥੨॥
    ਹਉਮੈ ਸਭਾ ਗਣਤ ਹੈ ਗਣਤੈ ਨਉ ਸੁਖੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ਬਿਖੁ ਕੀ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਣੀ ਬਿਖੁ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਹਿ ॥
    ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਠਉਰੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਨੀ ਜਮਪੁਰਿ ਦੂਖ ਸਹਾਹਿ ॥੩॥ਜੀਉ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਸਭੁ ਤਿਸ ਦਾ ਤਿਸੈ ਦਾ ਆਧਾਰੁ ॥
    ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਤਾ ਪਾਏ ਮੋਖ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹਿ ਤੂੰ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰੁ ॥੪॥੨੪॥੫੭॥

    Without Satguru the struggle of constantly being spiritually reborn can’t be escaped and the pain of the ego doesn’t go away. With Satguru’s blessing whoever is able to merge with Waheguru and incorporate truthful living in their life remins connected with the Naam. By following Gurbani, the connection can be made. Without Gurbani, a person wanders in doubt and life is wasted. I hope my mind always remains connected to Waheguru. By living as a Gurmukh, spiritual rebirth will be escaped. Rahao. The only one capable of giving life and blessings is the one Akaal Purakh. No-one else can compare (especially not human beings). If I always follow the lessons of Gurbani, it will remain with me always and bring peace to my life. Everyone is capable of the receiving this blessing. Where there is ego, there is only counting. No peace came from counting. Living under the influence of ego, the mind (and life) is filled with poison. With living according to Gurbani, peace of mind cannot be attained and the pain of dying is felt. Once we are able to understand that our body, mind and soul belong to Waheguru alone, then we understand that Akaal Purakh is also our support. When we realise the Satguru’s grace, then we can walk along the path of freedom from the evils within. Nanak says, forever live as per Gurbani (Naam) as per the Satguru who’s goodness cannot be counted and limits cannot be envisaged.

    LESSON: Forever remain immersed in Gurbani and follow the instructions provided to escape from the miserable life guided by ego. Ego leads to pain and false pride in useless rituals such as counting paaths.

    Ang 510
    ਪਉੜੀ ॥
    ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਵਸਿ ਆਪਣੈ ਕੀਤਾ ॥ਗਣਤੈ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਰਮੀਤਾ ॥
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਜੀਵਤੁ ਮਰੈ ਬੁਝਿ ਸਚਿ ਸਮੀਤਾ ॥
    ਸਬਦੇ ਹਉਮੈ ਖੋਈਐ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲੀਤਾ ॥ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਜਾਣੈ ਕਰੇ ਆਪਿ ਆਪੇ ਵਿਗਸੀਤਾ ॥੪॥

    Waheguru created everything and is present within creation. Practices controlled by maya (such as counting of prayers) don’t help you connect but leave you in living aimlessly in doubt. By understanding the truth about the difference between maya and life, connection with Waheguru can take place. With Waheguru’s help, pride can be killed to allow the connection to take place. Then you understand that Waheguru knows everything and looks after all creation.

    LESSON: Learn to recognise the truth so you can live a truthful life with peace and without doubt.

    Ang 314
    ਪਉੜੀ ॥
    ਤੂ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਜਾਣਦਾ ਜੋ ਜੀਆ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਵਰਤੈ ॥ਤੂ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਅਗਣਤੁ ਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਗਣਤੈ ॥
    ਸਭੁ ਕੀਤਾ ਤੇਰਾ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਸਭ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਣਤੈ ॥ਤੂ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਇਕੁ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਸਚੁ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਚਲਤੈ ॥
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨੋ ਮਿਲੇ ਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਸੈ ਪਰਤੈ ॥੨੪॥

    The creator knows all and resides within the creation. Creation is stuck in the worries of counting creation. O Parmeshwar you are aloof from such things because you are the one who created all. O Hari, you are within all. No-one has been able to discover you alone. The only people who realise this connection are the ones looking for it. They don’t look for Parmatma within the influences of maya.
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  7. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    findingmyway ji

    It never ceases to amaze me that around the world single tuks are tossed about without a single drop of thought. Here we say all the time, "When we look at the complete shabad the meaning is completely different."

    Should SPN rent a hot-air balloon? with this message written across THE FULL SHABAD PLEASE!

    Then again habits are hard to break. I am very grateful that Hardip Singh ji called this to our attention.
     
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  8. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    i agree that reading calculated number of shabad will not bring you realisation of god...but the methodology behind is i believe is a step in the right direction.

    the 5 thieves manifest in our minds as thoughts...and we pick up them thoughts and think about them, discard some, act on some of them...they pretty much dictate our actions....we run around like unconscious robots at the hands of them.

    by doing something completely different (using your mind) and trying to break the mind out of its useless thought manifestations...we can begin to retain control and become conscious again...acting on our intutition, our love, compassion, forgiveness without 'overthinking things'.

    often just repeating anything over and over is attempting to take the mind out of it's usual bad habits and thoughts...mind always tries to fight back...this is the battle of the mind that gurbani talks about over and over.

    the problem is that people think the repeating will give them realisation...so it becomes a ritual...if you know what its for, it becomes a useful practice...

    a darts coach can spend years trying to take a darts player out of a bad habit of holding and throwing a dart...they do this by repetition practice...eventually the bad habbit is removed....same principle.

    some people take this further and sit during amrit vela, quiet place, dark room...so that they block out as much usage of external senses...and they use a mantra to stop the mind from thinking about all the crap that it does, and then they sit and observe and be a witness to what exists in the silent space between the thoughts...

    if we receive guru ji's grace we touch base with inner shabad...and so our journey towards god realisation begins...

    To me this is what the below shabad tells me. from my own experiences i relate to the shabad below. The complete shabad is really long and can be read via this link:
    http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=3406

    naanak naam rathae path hoe ||9||
    O Nanak, imbued with the Naam, the Name of the Lord, one is honored. ||9||

    raajan raam ravai hithakaar ||
    One who lovingly chants the Name of the Sovereign Lord King,

    ran mehi loojhai manooaa maar ||
    fights the battle and conquers his own mind;

    raath dhina(n)th rehai ra(n)g raathaa ||
    day and night, he remains imbued with the Lord's Love.
     
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  9. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    How does mindless repetition take you in the right direction? How does ritual become useful practice?

    The ad is putting forward a gimmick. People go for it for the same reason that they are drawn to rituals in the first place. If you don't have to think you will never need to think. If you don't have to think, someone else can take the blame if things don't work out right. You can move on to the next guru, baba, sant. Or of course, you can always say I did not complete my ritual with exact and perfect actions. I need to start all over again and get it right, again and again and again. Then the mind becomes dull to reflection. We are back to brahminism once more.
     
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  10. findingmyway

    findingmyway
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    I see a lot of English translations refer to 'chanting the name'. When you look at the actual shabad, the meaner goes much much deeper and this is what I was trying to show with my interpretations above. Chanting the name is a misleading and very shallow interpretation that really muddles a lot of people.
     
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  11. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    NEVER be "CALCULATIVE" with HIM...He who is NEVER Calculative with us.
    AS Spnadmin ji has explained in her post...a GIMMICK. remains a GIMMICK.nothing more or less.....no matter what the hype or the PR selling it...and all these Mantras Jantras countings maalas etc have been ROUNDLY and SOUNDLY CONDEMNED by SGGS....so by giving "explanations"..circling around..are we trying to show we are cleverer than the GURU ?? Maala carriers and Dart Throwers..???? Are we perhaps using the Maala to throw darts at HIM..and hope to strike BULLS EYE by repeatedly and furiously counting the beads ??? NO JI..it doesnt work that way....HE is NOT a dart Board.:kaurkhalsaflagred::faujasingh:
     
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  12. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    spnadmin ji,
    we can all agree that when the focus is on calculative repetition i.e. i need to do this many repetitions of bani, or a mantra etc....then this is wrong...because the focus is on the number, not the piaar/love..the thirst for god, the longing, the sadness sometimes felt...

    How do you feel when you say the shabad 'waheguru' or 'satnaam'
    does it strike deep into you and help you focus on God?
    the start of mool manter EKONGKAAR defines how creation was created...

    from the ONE(EK) came the sound (ONG),,,from the sound came the creation(KAAR)....
    therefore by this definition...words, sounds, vibrations, energy, waves are within out very being...deep in us...the common thing amongst us all.

    So saying a shabad like waheguru, or satnaam or any shabad that came from EKONGKAAR will have a positive effect on you.

    the focus is not on stopping your thoughts...no one can stop their thoughts...thinking and manifestation of thoughts are two seperate things...we are all bombarded by thoughts about our past, hopes desires aspirations for the future...worries, concerns, trying to fit in with everyone, feeling the need to be accepted...these are all thought patterns...they provide our sense of ego...of individual self.

    Listen to the Actor Jim Carey...who describes his moment of 'Awakening'...listen to how he describes feeling 'free' for once from his mind..
    but also listen to how he longs for that feeling again...because it was only short lived...the mind takes over again.
    These awakenings are happening all over the wold...global consciousness is evolving faster now than ever.

    Jim Carrey on "Awakening" - YouTube

    Simran is the key to shifting one from being 'played' by the mind...to being observant/witness to the mind and it's thoughts...once that distinction is made then one asks 'who am i that is aware of my thoughts'...and then the journey to explore ones own consciousness which is a part of totality of consciousness (god) begins...
    Simran stages evolve and progress...
    repeation with love and devotion changes to listening and observing and being witness in deep meditation to your own consciosness.

    so if anyone is repeating the words 'waheguru' 'satnaam' with complete love, devotion, thirst for god...will eventually (god willing) feel the distinction decribed above...and once they're able to meditate on Gods naam with EK MAN (single mindedness) then to door begins to open to self/god realisation.

    pa(n)ch paravaan pa(n)ch paradhhaan ||
    The chosen ones, the self-elect, are accepted and approved.

    pa(n)chae paavehi dharagehi maan ||
    The chosen ones are honored in the Court of the Lord.

    pa(n)chae sohehi dhar raajaan ||
    The chosen ones look beautiful in the courts of kings.

    pa(n)chaa kaa gur eaek dhhiaan ||
    The chosen ones meditate single-mindedly on the Guru

    full shabad:
    http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=16
     
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  13. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    Satnama Gyani Ji,

    being calculative i completely agree is the wrong way to go about it...so these methods are wrong...

    but saying the divine words of gurbani, whether its 'waheguru' 'satnaam' 'ekongkaar' or full shabads with so much love and devotions and thirst for God that everytime you repeat the word, its vibration hits you deep within your inner self, as though the shabad is providing a pointer towards god...

    this my friend is not just mere repetition...this is the simran that gurbani describes...it is the meditating with Ek Man (single mindedness) that gurbani says over and over again... it is the shutting down of the bodies 9 openings to the outer world, and being witness to your own consciosness and hirda within your inner being where god himself resides...

    so lets not judge the act of japping, as there are major differences between one persons calculative methods, and anothers utterence of a shabad with a crying out and surrendering to the will of our God and Guru.

    i wouldnt dare judge or tell someone that they're doing wrong with repetion...because i myself use repetition when i sit for 2.5 hours amrit vela...and believe me if it was mere repeition then i would have gotten bored a long time ago and just slept through the night :)

    no dharavaaj navae dhar feekae ras a(n)mrith dhasavae chueejai ||
    There are nine doors, but the taste of these nine doors is bland and insipid. The Essence of Ambrosial Nectar trickles down through the Tenth Door.

    kirapaa kirapaa kirapaa kar piaarae gur sabadhee har ras peejai ||2||
    Please take pity on me - be kind and compassionate, O my Beloved, that I may drink in the Sublime Essence of the Lord, through the Word of the Guru's Shabad. ||2||

    kaaeiaa nagar nagar hai neeko vich soudhaa har ras keejai ||
    The body-village is the most sublime and exalted village, in which the merchandise of the Lord's Sublime Essence is traded.

    full shabad:
    http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=4825
     
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  14. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    chazSingh ji

    The difference? I don't circulate posters around the world. And my spiritual practice is by shabad not by numbers. No one particular number of times is superior to another.
     
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  15. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    satnaam spnadmin ji,

    and i agree with you :)
    unless i'm mistaken, i don't think i have stated anywhere in my posts that i agree with 1.calculative repetition...or 2. circulation of posters concerning such a method :)

    all i mentioned is that all repetition isnt bad, and we are using shabad vibrations that came direct from god...powered by love, devotion and a thirst for his presense...it is the most powerful tool we have...which isn't the only tool, but one which gets is moving in the right direction.

    God bless ji.
     
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  16. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    chazSingh ji

    It is always a tough nut to share spiritual practice because someone is likely to find offense in disagreement. However, spiritual advice is also like a seva. For me, there is no peace in a numbers seva, hearing musical tones in my head seva, or vibration seva --- all of which are touted on posters, in papers and on the Internet. If there was one and only one seva I could offer it would be to give back what Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak has given: deep, liberating stillness and love found in shabadGuru in the face of every trouble and every joy in life. I have seen this in others in my life. No posters!
     
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    #15 spnadmin, Mar 7, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
  17. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    I agree with all that you are saying.
    whole of creation was born of vibration (we cannot understand this but the term vibration, sound, waves has to be used from our phisical language)
    all we can do is use the outer shabad we have in SGGS Ji, to connect with our inner shabad which exists in us all...it's the same shabad or Word as described by jesus. this inner shabad guides us back to our true home...it is our guru.
    completeing our cycle and returning back home is our only goal and true seva...and helping others on their journey is part of that seva.

    this is just my current understanding through my own experience...but this is my personal experience...others may have their own different experiences....so god bless them all.
     
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  18. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Yes! and forgive me... a very good thing about this...it is not an accident and there is enough to it to last a lifetime and more.
     
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