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Promoting Teachings of Guru Granth Sahib

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by pk70, Jun 21, 2008.

  1. pk70

    pk70
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    (Quote Gyani Jarnail Singh)

    (Quote Dalbirk)



    Guru Granth Sahib in Other Language should be installed out of Punjab

    Points raised by dalbirk and Gyani Jarnail Singh are very vital to keep Sikhism a beautiful religion on a path of growth. In Punjab the people who have control on income of Gurudawara, are so self-centered that they are forgotten their moral responsibility. Deras and other conversioning forces are at full swing, they are doing nothing to negate them.
    I request all of you to come up with ideas to promote Sikhism in Gurmat way in area where people do not know Gurmukhi... Share your ideas and we can go from there.
    Dalbirk’s idea about promoting Sikhism, is through installing Guru Granth Sahib Ji out of Punjab Gurdawaras, in regional languages. Just share your views; you never know what can work better. Especially I urge Vijaydeep Singh ji who has such concerns on high priority.
    Thanks.
     
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    pk70 ji

    This is a great thread! Let us see what people have to say. Issues of the message and the language of the message can be explored as they are interconnected and as they have importance as individual issues. The perception that Sikhi is the preserve of those of Punjabi origin versus the challenges of adapting the practice of Sikhi in foreign lands applies here. Lessons learned in the Diasporas. Sikhism in the West...all of this. I am going to be quiet for now. This thread will take many different directions and all of them will be good.

    So many who have learned about Sikhi -- those with no interest in becoming Sikh -- are invariably impressed by our religion. Why? I know why. Then let us explore that also.
     
  4. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    maybe i am a bit biased or have my two feet in separate boats...
    Reason is I learnt Gurbani at the knees of my late mother Gyani Gurcharan Kaur even before i knew anything else...Both my parents were Gyanis - academically from Punjab University as well as religiously "trained" from the taksaal..and to my advantage came our migration to malaysia where i received an more than excellent English education in Christian Brothers Jesuit run school where the Irish/Welsh/Scottish brothers were really good dedicated educationists...so i added English to my bag of goodies inherited from my parents. They had background of Urdu/Farsee/BrijBhasha/Hindi/Sanskrit..and I have Excellent English....and while they had books by the hundreds..i have Computers and the Net full of resources..so i am equally comfortable in any langauge..i can translate on the fly from Englsih to Punjabi and vice versa...so although i do most of my "gurbani work" in ENGLISH based on English teekas..I always go back to the original Gurmukhi and Prof Sahib Singh/Faridkotee teeka/manmohan singh/vir singh...Its like comparing......HONEY to Cane SUGAR. GURBANI in ENGLISH..tastes like Cane Sugar....GURRH...and Gurbani in Origianl tastes like HONEY of the best kind... so there you are !!!
    Todays REALITY is that Cane SUGAR is much more widely available...cheaper to produce...and more widely accepted...than HONEY which is essentially for "Health freaks"....????
    SO I am never a Fanatic about using REGIONAL LANGUAGES..for the INITIAL PROPOGATION of Gurmatt...its a good idea to disseminate and spread Gurbani Message in any regional langauage ..no matter how "inadequate"...I am sure later on these students will definitley get the URGE to taste the real ORIGINAL HONEY..AMRIT...even if they dont..its better than not having even tasted any sugar. Just for the record..my Gurbani classes are run in Both English/Punjabi..about 5% return to "begin tasting Honey"..the rest are happy with sugar...Not everyone is as lucky as me or my brothers and sisters who are all bilingual in Gurbani as well.my younger brother is a BILINGUAL..kathawachak par excellence while doing a full time Govt Job

    Lets hear from the others...how does Gurbani in Regional language taste...do you have a feeling of lacking soemthing..some magical ingredient missing perhaps...??? as they say the "OOOMPH" ??
    Then we can perhaps come to a consensus..a concrete plan to help out...

    Warmest regards to all
    Gyani jarnail Singh
     
  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    THIS IS WHAT IS WRITTEN ON THE BROCHURE I PASS OUT TO PROSPECTIVE STUDENTS WHO APPROACH ME TO TEACH THEM PAATH/GURBANI.

    Countless times i have been asked..whats so great about GURMUKHI ? Isnt the Translated Gurbani the SAME THING ?? WHY isnt the translated verison enough for me...isnt it the same thoughts ??

    Lets go back to the time of Guru Nanank Jis aagman. In 1469 there were a myriad of well established, well developed, and very popular languages...there was Persian, Farsee, Arabic, Sanskrit, Hindi, Marathi, Gujrati, Bengali, Tamil, Kannada, etc etc etc.
    When Akal Purakh sent Guru nanak Ji Sahib on His Divine Mission..He must have made it clear that the Divine Mission of Guru nanak Ji Sahib is such a New revolutionary GYAN...that any of the already used languages/scripts cannot fit that. Thus to spread His New Mission..Guru nanak Ji Sahib set about scripting GHARRING the brand new GURMUKHI SCRIPT. Granted that some remnants of an older script similar to Gurmukhi already existed and Sheikh Farid Ji wrote his sloks in that but the entire RESHAPING/REMOULDING of the 35 akharee Gurmukhi rests squarely on Guru nanak Ji Sahibs Broad shoulders. Guur Nanak Ji sahib then began to use this new script to pen down His Gurbani..as it came from AKAL PURAKH.
    This is another aspect we always forget or overlook - the ORIGINAL LAREEDAAR GURBANI scripted in SGGS is the TRUE "Shape" of the Gurbani that AKAL PURAKH SENT DOWN. AAslee cheez hee eh hai.
    2. Paddchedd..is one LAYER DOWN the road AWAY from the TRUE GURU. Instead of holding on to the Guurs FINGER..we seek to hold the finger of the Padd chedder..
    3. Translation..is another SECOND layer down the road AWAY from the TRUE GURU...here we follow the direction of the translator/teekakar..as to what Guru Ji MEANS... its the GURU..the way the "translator" sees !!! IF the Transaltor is wearing green coloured specs....we will also see GREEN WORLD/GREEN SUN !! after all Gurbani is Not a "story"....or a tale fable...which can be easily translated and essence retained in any langauge....Gurbani is an EXPERIENCE..a MESSAGE....that is why "Amrit" is AMRIT..phrases like ambriosal nectar..honey..sugar water..etc dont fit the bill....you can get a "Genral Idea"..but not the real exact thing...Guru Ji says..its like asking a deaf mute to describe the taste/sounds...

    3 Just take a worldly example.... the Works of Shakespeare. Everybody knows his works are in the ORIGINAL....and also abridged versions, stories, simple english verisons etc..even some in Punjabi ( I had a Punjabi version of Raja Lear in my Gyani Exam in the 1970's...a very simplified story/tale...)
    Now who in his right mind will say that ALL these are SAME ?? What Shakespeare wrote ORIGINALLY is the pristine pure form of his thoughts in his english. If a fool like me insists that having read Raja Lear in Punjabi drama is the same as reading Original King Lear...i will be laughed out on my ear...BUT we expect that answer form those who support ENGLISH HUKMNAMAS...from the Translated version of SGGS..they INSIST it is all the SAME ???? REALLY ?? who says ?? The person who listens to the English Hukamnama is on the same wavelength as me reading the punjabi verison of Raja Lear in simplified Punjabi... I will get the gist of the story/tale of lear and his daughters etc etc BUT...then again...a cheap imitation is always visible...

    There is a reason why the Ilahi Gurbani is in Gurmukhi Script..time is short lets..get into the act and get cracking....its just 35 akhars..and Guru Ji will do the rest..300 saal GURU de NAAL must be made truly worthwhile...

    AM i right ?? wrong ?? partially right ?? let the SPN redaers decide...

    Jarnail Singh
     
  6. dalbirk

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    Dear Giani ji ,
    WJKK WJKF
    I was just trying to find way to preach Sikhism amongst more & more people . Let me tell u my example , I was not known to Sikh Principles , Beliefs much , though I am a Sabat Surat Sikh boy living in Ludhiana ( Punjab ) . During my entire 25 years of life , I had not done a Path of Japuji Sahib Ji even once in my life . One day during Guru Nanak Dev Ji's birthday Gurupurab , I went to a Gurudwara with my family . After coming out of Gurudwara I stopped to buy a Kara for my daughter , suddenly an aged man came to me & offered Sikh Phulwari Magazine for Rs 8/ . When I bought that , he offered me annual subscription for Rs 60/ . I took that out of mercy for that OLD FELLOW . But after three or four magazines I was nearly hooked , kept on thinking about Gurbani , its principles , life of Gurus , Sikh history . I slowly realized that Sikhism was very UNLIKE other religions , a complete way of life a constant Guide & companion . I slowly started reading all literature of Sikh Missionary College , Ludhiana . Then on net i read the whole Guru Granth Darpan By Prof Sahib Singh Ji . I had turned into a real maniac reading for about 10-12 hours daily about almost anything I could lay my hands on . I have now my quite big collection of Sikh literature thanks to Lahore Book Depot , Ludhiana . Seeing my example , I am still not in a position to really appreciate the essence of Gurbani MYSELF till now after doing so much input . I am barely clear about Sikh principles , beliefs . There have been so many different voices about Sikh ideology that any casual Devotee is never able to find truth about almost anything . Let us just try for the mass base . Even if HONEY ( AMRIT ) SEEKERS r not 58 % , it will surely set many more people on this path . The continous problem of Patitpuna , Deras , PS Badal , SGPC Elections , Lack of Unity , RSS's interference & target all these factors r contributing to the Demise of Sikhism in Punjab . If we do not act outside Punjab , Sikhism will be in a very dangerous position some years down the line . All efforts & ideas should be explored to avoid such a scenario . My aplogies for any mistakes in my post . I request all members especially Vijaydeep Singh Ji to contribute something with their views on this subject .
    Regards ,
    Dalbir Singh
     
    #5 dalbirk, Jun 21, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2008
  7. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    dear dalbir singh ji,
    gurfateh.
    Since i visit Punjab every year for various Samagams, IOSS Confrence etc I agree with you that the Sikh Phulwaree is...one of the BEST and the Sikh missionary College is doing the job beautifully. I saw with my own eyes how much Punjab LACKS...my god..there are less "dastars" in Punjab than they are in the Disapora....to say the least about the other things you mention. Most of all i saw was PAKHAND...thousands and thousands of DERAS, Pakhandi saadhs, and more pakhand in GURDWARAS than anywhere else outside... I saw Amrtidharees bowing to holy men...to graves..samadhs....statues..all in the name of "shardha"....Gurbani has been EFFECTIVELY wrapped up in thick rumallahs and sealed off from the ordinary SIKH.
    I agree with you that Sikhi must thrive OUTSIDE PUNJAB...there are about 80 million Sikh WANJARAS..100 million SIKH SIKLIGARS..outside Punjab..180 million already half sikh...much more cna be done..
    I hope SPN/ Memebers/readers outside Punjab will give their input...how is Sikhi..in Hyderabad..Calcutta..Banglore..Kannada...Tamil nadu..Orrissa..???

    Gyani jarnail Singh
     
  8. dalbirk

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    In the diaspora also , the younger generation must be feeling this problem as not all r fluent in Gurmukhi , much less in reading . The languages I feel we should go all out for r Hindi & English firstly . In Hindi belt of India ie . Uttar Pradesh , Uttrakhand , Rajasthan , Madhya Pradesh , Chattisgarh , Bihar , Jharkhand & to some extent Orrissa , Gujarat , Maharashtra Hindi should be the only language used for writing Hukkamnamas & doing Kathas . In Southern States like Karnatka , Andhra , Tamil Nadu , Kerala English can be used for a start if possible it can be followed up by regional languages few years down the line . Also in West , English should be the medium of Kathas & lectures & reading Gurbani can be done at two places one in Punjabi & another in English . Hukamnammas be wriiten in both English & Gurmukhi alongwith meanings as per Bhai Sahib Singh Ji's ' Guru Granth Darpan ' . That way younger generation will also start finding Gurbani of practical use in day to day lives & they'll be more involved in daily affairs & quest for deeper understanding .
     
  9. pk70

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    I feel good translations of Gurbani should be put on line, people and their children in diaspora can make use of it to understand Guru Bachan. Some thing should be done to provide free material to the interested ones on high level. A trust or something like that should consider it Guru Seva to provide material free. All we see out there is money making. If some one translates, he/she wants money for that instead of making it available free. Controversies regarding some old literature should be settled soon so that misleading should be stopped. A counter progremmes should be lauched against Deras, now they go to them and beg votes, if with efforts, people are get turned back to Guru Bachan, the same votes will not go in hands of Deras.
     
  10. spnadmin

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    I am completely in alignment with what you are saying. From personal experience. You start off with your native language, and the message of the Guru envelops you. Then you are so moved by it that you end up WANTING to learn Gurmukhi. Were it not for the translations, a person would never know that the Gurmukhi was even there.

    So the next thing you do is this: You take steps to learn Gurmukhi.

    The sugar becomes too sweet, too cloying. The honey has a deeper bouquet. It has a better taste, and add to that many healing properties. But without going for the sugar first -- would you even want to try the honey? Would you even know that the beehive was there? Just my thoughts.
     

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