Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

General Prayer To Get Well Soon?

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Kanwaljit Singh, Jun 25, 2012.

Tags:
  1. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
    Expand Collapse
    Apache Spark, Scala developer
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    2,147
    One of our friends is not doing well. So there was just a status message asking for prayers so that he gets well soon. I was thinking, why are we praying about? Are we reminding God that this nice man is suffering and needs God's help? Are we asking God to save him? I am a bit confused and feel a bit guilty for having such questions! Maybe I am just over-analyzing the usual figures of speech in today's language!
     
    #1 Kanwaljit Singh, Jun 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2012
  2. Loading...

    Similar Threads Forum Date
    Humility, Equality, Human-rights. What Donald Trump Could Learn From Sikh Prayer Hard Talk Jul 25, 2016
    Sikh News California Lawyer To Deliver Sikh Prayer At GOP Convention Breaking News Jul 20, 2016
    General Airport Prayer Rooms Blogs Jan 27, 2016
    God has listened to my prayers Sikh Youth Aug 9, 2015
    "Prayers" Do they really change Things ?and for what shall we Pray? Questions and Answers Nov 8, 2013

  3. findingmyway

    findingmyway
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer Contributor Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,667
    Likes Received:
    3,767
    I personally don't believe it makes any difference to God but it helps the person who is sick psychologically to know others out there care enough to remember them. If there is any effect on the healing process, I think it is a psychological one, which can be very powerful.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    Its similar to visiting the sick in hospital..giving them flowers, chatting with them..holding their hands...ALL these dont really help medically...but are great boosters of happiness..
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,634
    Likes Received:
    2,749
    Absolutely, It's a gesture of kindness and care just to say waheguru or god bless for them.
    As a patient, it is definitely comforting to hear. To know that someone else is hoping and saying a prayer or two for your well being is the least that one can physically do, because one can't give a magic cure for such patient.

    I was in a very serious condition about a year ago where I was in a coma for weeks. When I came around, it was very comforting and reassuring when everyone was telling me that they had prayed for me. Just the thought itself of knowing that all those around you care and took more than a moment or two to think about you is itself a booster.

    Waheguru
    Lucky Singh
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Ishna

    Ishna
    Expand Collapse
    On hiatus
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,942
    Likes Received:
    5,002
    I am in agreeance with my bhajis and bheinjis so far.

    But, do you still actually pray for a sick person (with the belief that it won't actually help them), or do you just tell them you're praying for them?

    Personally, I do actually pray for them. I wonder if by doing so, are we abusing our spiritual integrity. Perhaps it is as psychologically healing for us as it is for them though.

    Harry is banned from commenting on this thread.

    lol just kidding!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,120
    Likes Received:
    7,947
    I will actually confess to be being ever so slightly irritated when people pray for me, I also get equally irritated when people use the phrase 'God bless'.

    Creator is everywhere, in everything, knows everything. By praying, firstly, are we not saying to Creator,' please change Hukam?' or are we saying 'the will you have gifted us is inadequate, make a better one'.

    We are all blessed, 24 hours a day, blessed with free will, the choice to nail our colours to the mast of self, or Guru.

    Prayer at its most basic, asking Creator for help, can be both superstitious and ritualistic. And if we are praying for someone else, if we really believe it will help, then it is questioning Hukam to boot.Invariably we feel the need to let the person know that they are being prayed for, I would say if prayer is 'like' visiting someone in hospital, or chatting to them, why not cut out the middle man, and just stick with the visiting in hospital and chatting.

    Of all the thoughts, actions and words that I will think, do and say today, I find it ludicrous that Creator will only note and act on what I have outlined as a prayer. It as ludicrous as those that behave in a certain way in front of SGGS, forgetting that Creator is present everywhere 24/7.

    Maybe if we all over-analyse the usual figures of speech then we might move away from Sikhism turning into a magical miracle machine.Sikhism, in my view, is an acceptance of Creators order, obeying the laws of Creation, of being able to assist, and of having the knowledge to know what to do when assisting. The latter, some call Simran, some call prayer, but you cannot beat constant, calm, dialogue with Creator.

    If you are learning to drive, then your driving instructor is your Guru, if the object is to gain a licence, then the mission is to gain as much knowledge from the Guru as possible, whilst showing respect and humility to one who has the power to instruct you. Prostrating yourself in front of the instructor and praying, chanting and begging that you pass, on account of your devotion to him is not really going to cut the mustard, Life is a test, the exam is everyday, there will be those that get top marks for devotion, and then there are the quiet ones, they respect the teacher, but are not teachers pets, they are more concerned with passing the exam than giving apples, and the more knowledge they obtain, the quieter they get

    ਮੰਨੇ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ
    The state of the faithful cannot be described.
    ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ॥
    One who tries to describe this shall regret the attempt.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  8. Ishna

    Ishna
    Expand Collapse
    On hiatus
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,942
    Likes Received:
    5,002
    But what if the prayer for them is not "Dear God help them get better soon" but "Dear God may they be blessed to accept your hukam" or "May Harry ji be blessed with realisation of Naam and find peace therein"?

    I dunno, I think this kind of prayer might have a place in the world.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  9. Archived_Member16

    Archived_Member16
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,451
    Likes Received:
    3,761
    Newsmaxhealth.com

    Proof of the Healing Power of Prayer

    Friday, April 6, 2012 12:28 PM



    For the devout, there never has been any question — prayer has the power to heal. Now, more and more medical research from leading hospitals and universities across the United States has shown conclusively that a belief in God really is good for you, and can make you healthier, happier, and induce you to live longer to boot.

    “Studies have shown prayer can prevent people from getting sick, and when they do get sick, prayer can help them get better faster,” Duke University’s Dr. Harold G. Koenig tells Newsmax.

    An exhaustive analysis of more than 1,500 reputable medical studies “indicates people who are more religious and pray more have better mental and physical health,” Koenig says. “And out of 125 studies that looked at the link between health and regular worship, 85 showed regular churchgoers live longer.

    Dr. Koenig, director of Duke’s Center for Spirituality, Theology and Health, and the author of several authoritative books on faith and healing, says a striking study published in the Southern Medical Journal last year demonstrated that prayer has a remarkable effect on patients with hearing and visual deficiencies. After prayer sessions, “They showed significant improvements based on audio and visual tests,” Koenig says.

    What’s more, he says, “The benefits of devout religious practice, particularly involvement in a faith community and religious commitment, are that people cope better. In general, they cope with stress better, they experience greater well-being because they have more hope, they're more optimistic, they experience less depression, less anxiety, and they commit suicide less often.” He adds, “They have stronger immune systems, lower blood pressure, and probably better cardiovascular functioning.”

    The proof of the power of prayer is overwhelming, says researcher and writer Tom Knox, a one-time atheist who became a regular worshipper after doing in-depth study of the medical benefits of faith. “What I discovered astonished me. Over the past 30 years a growing, and largely unnoticed, body of scientific work shows religious belief is medically, socially, and psychologically beneficial.”

    Study after study backs up the benefits of having faith, especially in prolonging life.

    In 2006, population researchers at the University of Texas discovered that the more often you go to church, the longer you live. “Religious attendance is associated with adult mortality in a graded fashion,” says Knox. “There is a seven-year difference in life expectancy between those who never attend church and those who attend weekly.”

    The American Journal of Public Health studied nearly 2,000 older Californians for five years and found that those who attended religious services were 36 percent less likely to die during that period than those who didn’t.

    A study of nearly 4,000 older adults for the U.S. Journal of Gerontology revealed that atheists had a significantly increased chance of dying over a six-year period than the faithful. Crucially, religious people lived longer than atheists even if they didn’t go regularly to a place of worship.

    Prayer intercession also has been shown to have a positive impact across a wide range of diseases and disorders.

    The American Society of Hypertension established in 2006 that churchgoers have lower blood pressure than non-believers. Scientists have also revealed believers recover from breast cancer quicker than non-believers, have better outcomes from coronary disease and rheumatoid arthritis, and are less likely to have children with meningitis.

    A massive 12-month study from a Kansas City hospital showed patients admitted with heart trouble did better when somebody was praying for them. Amazingly, the patients were not told people were praying for them. Volunteers from a local church were given the first name of a patient on a piece of paper and asked to pray for that person.

    Those patients had fewer complications than those who weren’t prayed for. Researchers said they did not have a scientific explanation for the outcome.

    Research at San Francisco General Hospital looked at the effect of prayer on 393 cardiac patients. Half were prayed for by strangers who had only the patients’ names. Those patients had fewer complications, fewer cases of pneumonia, and needed less drug treatment. They also got better quicker and left the hospital earlier.

    Two studies at the University of California San Francisco Medical Center showed prayer could be a positive benefit for AIDS victims, too. Patients not prayed for spent six times as long in hospital as those who received prayers — and got three times as many illnesses.

    An arthritis treatment center in Florida used prayer sessions to try to help patients suffering pain. A study says they showed “significant overall improvement” for up to one year later.

    In a study of nearly 92,000 people in Maryland, people who attended church once or more a week had 50 percent fewer deaths from coronary artery disease, 56 percent fewer deaths from emphysema, 74 percent fewer deaths from cirrhosis, and 53 percent fewer suicides.

    Concluded Knox: “Atheists can sneer at faith all they like, but they can’t assume science is on their side.”


    © 2012 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

    source: http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/headline_health/prayer_healing_power/2012/04/06/443812.html


    Recommended Reading:

    - The Miracle of Ardas, by Sant Baba Surain Singh Ji & Saint Scholar Naranjan Singh Ji ( Shirmoni Kathakar)
    - Ardas Shakti, by Raghbir Singh Bir
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #8 Archived_Member16, Jun 25, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
  10. jasbirkaleka

    jasbirkaleka India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2006
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    425
    The Miracle of Ardas[/B], by Sant Baba Surain Singh Ji & Saint Scholar Naranjan Singh Ji ( Shirmoni Kathakar)
    - Ardas Shakti, by Raghbir Singh Bir[/COLOR][/quote]

    My sincere advice to all Sikhs is to keep at arm"s length,all such scholars and sants.:singhbhangra:
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #9 jasbirkaleka, Jun 25, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
  11. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
    Expand Collapse
    Apache Spark, Scala developer
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    2,147
    Some of the points I have come across:
    • Inspire the patient to accept the Will of Creator (sadly in my case he is in coma, suffering from an infection or worse, rejection of lung transplant after CF)
    • Gives strength to the patient's family to do what is best.
    • Personally, you doing prayer/conversations-with-God/meditation/Simran will help you keeping your spiritual, mental and perhaps to some extent, physical health!
    • I am still not sure if we can ask God to save them from the illness. The question of trying to change the Hukam remains.
    • We can ask God to bless them with realization of Naam and peace? But I would rather do Sukhmani Sahib paath with sangat in the ward if possible.
    • I would usually say that rather than Pray to, we should Remember God, for all is in His hands.
    • We should surely do other gestures of kindness, and we can say we are thinking about your welfare all the time?
    • Rather than make the person feel better psychologically (saying we are praying for him) we should discuss Gurbani with him and his family if they are available!
    • What we surely should NOT do is, ask the Granthi ji in Gurudwara to do a special Ardas for this patient, frantically handing him money just when he is about to start on the mic!
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,634
    Likes Received:
    2,749
    Harryji, It's fine to feel the way you do.

    Saying that, I knew like Ishna ji that you would try to topsy turvy the issue. But, I do actually understand and did at one time agree with all you said.
    I have in all honesty felt this same way where I would hear someone saying 'I'm praying for you or praying for them...etc..' -I too would get a little irritated and think to myself, cut the crap- are you really praying from your heart and why even mention it, just shut up and do it then!!!

    However, like I said earlier, about this time last year, I was in a very,very critical situation where I was in a coma for nearly a whole month.
    All that everyone could do was simply hope, that I came around OK, even if it meant being somewhat dysfunctional, they just wanted me to be ALIVE at my age with my young family.

    Trust me, when you are in a coma-you don't know about praying for yourself, infact you only know that you were in such a state if and after you come around. It's what everyone tells you and then you realise that all these weeks are just missing from your life, and you were just lay there breathing through a ventilator and life support that was the only sign of living life.-(the bleeps on the monitors)

    Before such an experience, my view too would have been similar to yours.
    But when you come around and you wonder what everyone you know was doing, it's VERY COMFORTING to be told that you were in their thoughts and prayers.
    In fact, It NEVER EVER occured to me that yes, it's their prayers that saved me, no not at all. That is NOT the point. All along, I knew that it was the lord's will, it's his hands that saved me.

    To hear and learn that everyone stopped in their tracks maybe just for a moment or two just to say 'waheguru' whilst their thoughts were on my well being is ALL you need to hear to comfort and reassure you at that moment when you are just wondering- 'why is this happening or why has it happened?' - BECAUSE, believe me, that is ALL that the patient or the one in need is actually thinking.

    Infact, I cannot even imagine how upset I would have been if no one had given a second thought or a moment to wish me better. I mean, many of them did say that it was all in the creators hands, but they didn't mean that this meant they didn't need to wish or pray for me, just because they were powerless compared to the Lord.

    What I learned was, to give a few moments of thought and prayer for the one you care about in their moment of need is a NICE way to SIMPLY EXPRESS YOUR LOVE. It doesn't mean hours of ardaas and paath, just whatever makes one comfortable, even if it's just saying 'waheguru' once.

    After my experience, I know that when someone asks me or says -to pray for such and such, In effect all they are asking me is - if I love this person, then I should allocate a few moments of my thoughts to their well-being.

    You can call it prayer or you can call it what ever you want. BUT, it's not going to make me think twice, ever. It's no commitment or ritual, just a very informal way of sending my love.


    Waheguru
    Lucky Singh
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Archived_member15

    Archived_member15
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2012
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    642
    My dear brothers and sisters peacesign

    First of all, God does not need a prayer in 'words' to know what we or other people need. He already knows what we need before we pray. I suppose that is one of the 'perks' that come with Him being "All-knowing" and "omniscient" :sippingcoffeemunda: Our prayers will have no effect on God, especially if by praying we hope somehow to force God's 'hand' and bend his will to ours, such prayer is useless. Prayer is ultimately a gift from, for our benefit and not the other way around:



    "...God has stood in unmoved detachment from all eternity, and still so stands. All the prayers that a human being can do in time affect God’s detachment as little as if no prayers had ever occurred in time, and God never became more ready to give or more inclined towards a person than if that person had never uttered the prayer..."

    - Meister Eckhart (c. 1260 – c. 1327), Catholic Mystic & Dominican priest


    So why bother to pray at all? Well it makes us aware of our lack of self-sufficiency and need for God's grace. It helps us grow towards ever closer union with God, as we strip away our self-will and tame our passions. And finally God wants us to pray because we are his co-workers.

    Might it not be the Will of God that we pray for other people when they are ill or so ask us?

    I consider it a possibility that it might be God's will for a person to turn to God in prayer on behalf of another, not out of hope for a chance miracle or a changing of God's will, but rather so as to turn that person's thoughts away from self to selfless concern for the welfare of the other person. By praying for others in their time of need, we surrender our time and the thoughts in our head that otherwise would probably be put to self-use or self-gratification, so as to humbly prostrate our hearts before God and ask that he might vouchsafe whatever he wills - be it grace, benevolence, peace, health or whatever else - for the benefit of that other person.

    In so doing we come into spirtual solidarity with others.

    Of course this is no substitute for actually having physical contact with another person, however there are times when this is simply not possible, or indeed we continue to worry about that person's health even when we are not with them, and so feel the need to direct our worries towards God.

    After all, God is in all things and all things are in God. This means that when we direct our thoughts in prayer to God, who is in all, we are therefore with that other person in spirit since the God we are praying to is with that person, within that person and all around that person.

    Prayer is thus a form of connection. It is never a solitary act. That is why Christians pray, "Our Father" not "my Father". When we pray, we unite ourselves with God and since God is already within everything, we thereby unite ourselves with all our fellow human beings, all creatures and all creation.

    That said, I fully agree that we should never seek to change whatever God wills to happen to us or to other people:


    "...You must know that people who resign themselves to God and diligently seek his Will alone, whatever God sends them will be best...Sickness or poverty, hunger or thirst, whatever God sends you or does not send you, what He grants you or withholds, that is best for you...whatever you have or lack, be minded to honor God in all things, and then, whatever He sends you will be for the best. Now you might say, 'How do I know whether it is God's Will or not?' Be sure, if it were not God's Will it would not be. You have neither sickness nor anything else unless God wills it. And so, knowing it is God's Will, you should so rejoice in it and be content that pain would be no pain to you...If you loved God, you could rejoice in nothing more than in that which pleases Him best and that His will is done in us. However great may seem the pain or distress, unless you have an equal delight in it, it is wrong. One thing I am wont to say and it is a fact, that we daily cry in our paster noter (Our Father), 'Lord thy will be done!' and when His Will is done, we are angry and discontented with it. But whatever he did should please us best. Those who do take it as best ever remain in perfect peace. But sometimes you think and say, 'Oh, it would be better if it had turned out differently,' or, 'If it had not been so, things might have been better'. As long as you think this way you will never find peace...No hardship and loss is without some gain, and there is no harm that is wholly negative. Whoever has abandoned themselves and gone entirely out of themselves, for such a person nothing can be a cross, or pain or suffering, but for them all is bliss, joy and the heart’s delight and they will come and follow God truly. There are people who enjoy God in one way but not in another. They only want to possess God in one way of devotion and not in another. I will say no more about this, but it is nevertheless quite wrong. Whoever wants to receive God properly must receive him equally in all things, in oppression as in prosperity, in tears as in joy. Always and everywhere He is the same..."

    - Meister Eckhart (c. 1260 – c. 1327), Catholic Mystic & Dominican priest


    To this end Eckhart says:


    "...People often say to me, 'Pray for me'. And I think, 'Why do you go out? Why do you not stay within yourself and draw on your own treasure? For you have the whole truth in its essence within you.' That we may thus truly stay within, that we may possess all truth immediately, without distinction, in true blessedness, may God help us..."

    - Meister Eckhart (c. 1260 – c. 1327), Catholic Mystic & Dominican priest


    A very simple Catholic prayer for people who are suffering from illness reads as follows:


    "...I confidently turn to you for help in my present sickness. God, relieve me of this sickness, if it be your Holy Will. But if it should be your Holy Will that I bear this sickness, give me courage and strength to accept these trials from the loving hand of God with patience and resignation, because you know what is best for the salvation of my soul..."


    This prayer is addressed by the sick person to God, however would it not be acceptable to offer up such a prayer on behalf of another person?

    We ask God to help our loved one/friend in their present hour of trial in whatever way he wills. We ask that God relieve the person of the illness if it be his Will for them to recover. And we finish the prayer by asking, that if it be God's will for this person to bear the sickness, that he through the power of his Divine Spirit grants them courage and the strength to endure whatever awaits them with pure trust in God's Will and perfect love of God.

    It is not that we expect God to work miracles, or to bend to our will, but rather it is a show of spiritual solidarity on behalf of the sick person, because when we address our thoughts to God we are united with Him and with everyone else on the deepest level, including our loved one, for God is in all things and all things are in Him.

    It is also beneficial to our health, since by entrusting all our worries about that person to God, we are helping ourselves to become more conformed to his Will rather than stress ourselves and fret over the health of our loved one or friend.

    These are just some thoughts. I do regard prayer as a means to growing in union with God, as I wrote in a previous post - quoting another person on another forum:



    That said I also see nothing wrong with praying for someone as described above ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #12 Archived_member15, Jun 26, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012

Share This Page