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Prabh Milne Ka Chao - Bhai Sewa Singh Tarmala

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by BaljinderS, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. BaljinderS

    BaljinderS
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    I know the following... I have never been to one of their programmes. Can someone shed some light on this please?

    Most of them seem very nice Gursikhs. But some veechara like becoming BrahmGyanee is 4 years don't seem right.
    -----------------------
    1.They have a Brahm Gyan University Set Up
    2.Main Asthaan is Called Prabh Milne Ka Chaao (Ludhiana if i remember)
    3.I was given a card and they started preaching to me, in a very gurmat oriented.
    4.In the University there is a 4 year Brahm Gyan Course
    5.They target youth that wear Gurmukhi Bana in particular
    6.Openly showing Ridhee Sidhee happens in there Satsangtee programs.
    7.There are few dera outside of India
     
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  3. hpannu

    hpannu
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    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ
    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਿਹ ॥

    I have a little bit of info. on Prabh Milne Ka Chao that i would like to Share.

    I would first like to say - I was raised by my parents to follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji only. No Dera influence.

    In one of NJ Gurduara Sahib there are followers of Prabh Milne ka chao. Sangat members were told sukhmani Sahib ਦੇ ਪਾਠ ਦੀ ਲੋੜ ਨਹੀ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਾਂ । Sangat was discouraged to do ਪਾਠ and encouraged to do Simran. Management was split between the two. There was friction and a youtube video was shown from Dera Prabh Milne ka chao (near Moga, Punjab). In the video Seva Singh Tarmala is leading people asking them to do Vaheguru Simran and rotate there head at the same time resulting in Turbans coming off. ਲੋਕ ਸਿਰ ਮਾਰ ਰਹੇ ਸੀ ਅਤੇ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕਰ ਰਹੇ ਸੀ । ਪੱਗਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਵਾਲ ਵੀ ਖੁਲੇ ਹੋਏ ਸੀ । ਸੇਵਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਤਰਮਾਲਾ ਸਿਰ ਨਹੀ ਸੀ ਘੁਮਾ ਰਿਹਾ । ਕਮਲਵਾਹ ਸੀ - ਇਹ ਸਭ ਕੁਝ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੀ ਹਜੂਰੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਹੋ ਰਿਹਾ ਸੀ । After seeing the video a normal person is upset at the situation in Punjab. Negative influence of Deras.

    Second incident is from 2 years ago when i was visiting California and went to see a friend of mine. My friend is a big fan of Prabh Milne ka chao. They bought an old church converted it into Gurduara Sahib and i was there when they were doing opening ceremony. when i went to see him he was at Gurduara Sahib running a Khalsa Camp. what i saw over there ? Sangat members were doing Simran ( I had only heard of it from the incident in NJ). There was no Kirtan or Katha in regular diwan. One of the Singh was telling Sangat techniques how to do Simran ? breath in and out and leading in Simran.

    I was not impressed from this experience and first hand saw what I had only heard of before ?

    Here are the things to ponder -

    do we need deras for Brahm Gyan ? my answer is big NO.

    People are looking for short cuts and there is no short cut. All they have do is believe in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Learn Gurmukhi / Gurbani, try to understand it ( to a person's best ability ) and lastly follow it. seems easy but it's not easy - right. well make a good effort to follow these steps.

    Bhul chuk maaf karna ji !
     
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  4. hpannu

    hpannu
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    I forgot to say - I blame SGPC for the all the Dera influence in Punjab. ਪੰਥ ਦੇ ਲੀਡਰ ਚੋਰ ਹਣ - ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਗੋਲਕ ਦੇ ਅਤੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਨਿਜੀ ਸਵਾਰਥਾਂ ਦੇ ਪਿਛੇ ਲੱਗ ਕੇ ਇਹ ਕੁਝ ਹੋ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ । ਪਰ ਜੇਕਰ ਸੋਚਿਆ ਜਾਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਲਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਅੱਜ ਕਲ ਤਾਂ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਦਾ ਵੀ ਕੋਈ ਦੀਨ ਅਮਾਨ ਨਹੀ ਹੈ । The whole thing comes down to people itself. Look at the results of Punjab elections. Drugs / Cancer all the problems in Punjab are growing day by day and not a single person is saying anything about it. People of Punjab, Punjab Police and Politicians are all to be blamed for all this misery.
    They are ready to blame NRI's - saying you guys don't know anything. :(
     
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  5. BaljinderS

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    Thank you Veer Ji for the information. Its not just me then. You have confirmed what I know and feel. A lot people from my town go to one of their deras and they have a very similar attitude to what you have described. Religion is now being sold in the same manner as any other material goods. We know that is not true dharm. What really gets me is that they do this very cleverly by presenting it as Sikhi but then twisting to lead people of the path without them knowing.

    They do naam jaapana at our Gurudwara. One person stands on the stage (where the stage sectary stands) and then does naam jaap and the sangat following him. Why standing up??? This is disrespectful to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Don't you think? Well known respected parcharkas always sit down so what purpose is there in standing up and doing it?

    All this is clearly not right. Daal which kuch kaala hai???
     
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  6. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  7. hpannu

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    Baljinder Singh Ji -

    Naam Japna / Simran karna is not the issue. It can be done. The problem is other things like ਪਾਠ ਕਰਣ ਨਾਲੋ ਨਾਮ ਜਪਣਾ ਚੰਗਾ ਹੈ, ਸਿਰ ਨੂੰ ਘੁਮਾਣਾ ਨਾਮ ਜਪਣ ਵੇਲੇ !

    and i don't know what else they do. I am not a Dera follower. I also don't like the concept of Brahm Gyan degree ਲਓ ਸਾਡੇ ਕੋਲੋ ! ਜੇਕਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨ ਮਿਲਣ ਲੱਗ ਜਾਵੇ ਇਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਤਾਂ ਸੋਚ ਕੇ ਵੇਖੋ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਵਿੱਚ ਕਿੰਨੇ ਡੇਰੇ ਹੋਰ ਖੁਲ ਜਾਣਗੇ । ਸਭ ਆਪਣੀ ਦੁਕਾਣ ਖੋਲ ਕੇ ਬਹਿ ਜਾਵੇਗਾ japposatnamwaheguru:
     
  8. BaljinderS

    BaljinderS
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    Good question veer ji... I do wonder why people in Malwa tend to follow?? So many question, so little time...:interestedsingh:
     
  9. prakash.s.bagga

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    Unless we have a unified system of interpretation and understanding of SGGS ..there can be no barrior to the expansion of DERAWAD or SANT WAD.
    At present any one can interprate SGGS according to his own understanding so in this situation how can any improvement be expected.
    Therefore it is utmost important to evolve a unified code system for interpretation of SGGS.
    Basically we dont need Preachers or Teachers we need good and matured interpraters of Gurbanee.
    Prakash.s.Bagga
     
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  10. BaljinderS

    BaljinderS
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    Veere, I don't see any problems with naam simran... however, its this whole thing about how it should done (head shaking, breathing technique). its very ritualistic approach which i find a bit fishy. Who knows what else is behind the closet?? All the signs tell me this very dangerous and not good for Sikhi.

    Yes, is it really that easy become Brahm Gianee??? who are they kidding?? My dad has been studying Gurbani all his life and I never heard him mention anything about becoming a Brahm Gianee. Me and you are clearly not falling for this but allot of people are which needs to addressed.
     
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  11. InSearch

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    WJKKWJKF!

    I was actually looking up the address of the Sacramento PMKC Gurudwara and the search also turned up a link to this discussion (I have been to their Sac Gurudwara once before, but I wasn't driving so I didn't remember exactly where it was). I had no idea that there was a controversy over "their" interpretation of Gurbani or way of meditation, so I'll throw in my two cents.

    My perception of the group/movement comes mainly from two people and four-five "encounters"; first and foremost from the Singh who visits our local Roseville Gurudwara. I've attended his simran sessions three times, and so far so good. There hasn't been any talk of becoming a "brahm-gyani," or any weird head-spinning-church-type-possessed-by-holy-spirit thing. The main concept has been that Guru Granth Sahib tells us that we can not meet God without Simran/meditation. I respect the dude's dedication, as he drives 30 miles to our Gurudwara after work, once every week, and has refused any money that the sangat has offered him for gas. My dad, who has participated in more of his simran sessions, likes to read bani more than before now, and supposedly understands it a little better and feels more connected. Logically, we can chalk off the "connection" to a better understanding, which would be because of more reading/listening consuming Gurbani, but at the end of the day, there is a change towards the positive (not that he wasn't a devoted Sikh before).

    The last time I went to their Sac Gurudwara (my first time), it was because of a weekend camp they had, and I met another Singh sahib who was leading the kids' camp. He was a lawyer by education and ran some sort of a media/political campaign company (I must admit part of my interest in talking to him was because I'm a web developer myself), but I was impressed by the brief discussion on Sikh philosophy and meditation I had with him. He too seemed like a dedicated person, as he had flown-in from Chicago to lead the kids camp.

    Recently my faith has not been as strong as it used to be when I was a student, and I feel some guilt for that. Having that in the background, when I came across the idea that they introduced (maybe "re-introduced" I should say)--seeing that Akaal Purakh is 'ang-sang' and becoming one with Him is not impossible--excites me a bit. I've only seen Gurbani and simran/mediation so far at their Gurudwara, and I need both of those things.

    I also liked how their langar was simple. The camp focused on Simran, Katha and Kirtan. I didn't think about it earlier, but after reading one of the posts here, it does come to mind that they did spend more time on Simran and Katha, than on Kirtan...then again, it was a "Simran" camp. They did do Nitnem before starting the Simran.

    During their Katha, they do seem to bring up the consequences of not doing simran quite often, at least more so than at other gurudwaras. It's been a very very long time since I read it (high school), but it reminds me of "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God," by Jonathen Edwards. What I never knew, was that the hell-like river of fire and being taken across it (loosely interpreted) is mentioned in Gurbani as well! I have not read all of Guru Granth Sahib, but I am familiar with bhai Gurdas ji telling that Guru Nanak Dev ji came to save a burning world, and references to the crossing an ocean/body of fire of Maya, etc. Their interpretation makes it sound somewhat like we go through the Christian concept of hell (burning fire) after death, before we are re-incarnated, if we waste our life without dwelling upon Him. I'm no Sikh scholar, but I did not find anything Gurmat, as I understand it.

    I would be a little freaked out by the trance/possessed behavior some people have mentioned in their postings. On becoming a "brahm-gyani"...naming a place of spiritual learning "Brahm-Gyan University" or whatever it is, is just inspirational and no big deal IMHO; promising brahm-gyan in four years, or any given time, however, is non-sense. Again, I have not heard any such claims. If I do, I'd be like "uh, where do I sign up...how many units will it be and do I have to take summer school?" because that's gotta be better than any other 4yr degree and a mediocre job ;)

    All I'm trying to say is check it out for yourself. I'm doing it. Just be wary if anyone asks you to drink any KoolAid :)
     
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