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Our 4 Days in Maya

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichaar' started by Astroboy, Dec 9, 2008.

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  1. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    The given definition of Maya at this link
    maya - definition of maya by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    The transitory, manifold appearance of the sensible world, which obscures the undifferentiated spiritual reality from which it originates; the illusory appearance of the sensible world.

    Please view the full shabad :

    Page 429, Line 6
    ਇਹ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੀ ਸੋਭਾ ਚਾਰਿ ਦਿਹਾੜੇ ਜਾਦੀ ਬਿਲਮੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੫॥
    इह माइआ की सोभा चारि दिहाड़े जादी बिलमु न होइ ॥५॥
    Ih mā▫i▫ā kī sobẖā cẖār ḏihāṛe jāḏī bilam na ho▫e. ||5||
    The glory of this Maya lasts for only for four days; it disappears in an instant. ||5||
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     
    #1 Astroboy, Dec 9, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
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  3. pk70

    pk70
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    Guru goes further to wake the humans from slumbering in play of Maya and forgetting the end which is inching closer, if any one listening, please read on
    ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ਘਰੁ
    Sirīrāg mėhlā 1 gẖar 2.
    Siree Raag, First Mehl, Second House:

    ਧਨੁ ਜੋਬਨੁ ਅਰੁ ਫੁਲੜਾ ਨਾਠੀਅੜੇ ਦਿਨ ਚਾਰਿ
    Ḏẖan joban ar fulṛā nāṯẖī▫aṛe ḏin cẖār.
    Wealth, the beauty of youth and flowers are guests for only a few days. ( It has time limit)

    ਪਬਣਿ ਕੇਰੇ ਪਤ ਜਿਉ ਢਲਿ ਢੁਲਿ ਜੁੰਮਣਹਾਰ
    Pabaṇ kere paṯ ji▫o dẖal dẖul jummaṇhār. ||1||
    Like the leaves of the water-lily, they wither and fade and finally die. ||1|| ( Example is to understand how they fade with time limit)

    ਰੰਗੁ ਮਾਣਿ ਲੈ ਪਿਆਰਿਆ ਜਾ ਜੋਬਨੁ ਨਉ ਹੁਲਾ
    Rang māṇ lai pi▫āri▫ā jā joban na▫o hulā.
    Be happy, dear beloved, as long as your youth is fresh and delightful. (Note> Hint is at contemplating on the Lord’s name and to enjoy living in His Love)

    ਦਿਨ ਥੋੜੜੇ ਥਕੇ ਭਇਆ ਪੁਰਾਣਾ ਚੋਲਾ ਰਹਾਉ
    Ḏin thoṛ▫ṛe thake bẖa▫i▫ā purāṇā cẖolā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    But your days are few-you have grown weary, and now your body has grown old. ||1||Pause|| ( A warning about closer visit of old age)

    ਸਜਣ ਮੇਰੇ ਰੰਗੁਲੇ ਜਾਇ ਸੁਤੇ ਜੀਰਾਣਿ
    Sajaṇ mere rangule jā▫e suṯe jārāṇ.
    My playful friends have gone to sleep in the graveyard. ( example of some one closer answered the call of the Lord)

    ਹੰ ਭੀ ਵੰਞਾ ਡੁਮਣੀ ਰੋਵਾ ਝੀਣੀ ਬਾਣਿ
    Haʼn bẖī vañā dumṇī rovā jẖīṇī bāṇ. ||2||
    In my double-mindedness, I shall have to go as well. I cry in a feeble voice. ||2|| ( we see the truth but for some reason we try to forget)

    ਕੀ ਸੁਣੇਹੀ ਗੋਰੀਏ ਆਪਣ ਕੰਨੀ ਸੋਇ
    Kī na suṇehī gorī▫e āpaṇ kannī so▫e.
    Haven't you heard the call from beyond, O beautiful soul-bride?
    ਲਗੀ ਆਵਹਿ ਸਾਹੁਰੈ ਨਿਤ ਪੇਈਆ ਹੋਇ
    Lagī āvahi sāhurai niṯ na pe▫ī▫ā ho▫e. ||3||
    You must go to your in-laws; you cannot stay with your parents forever. ||3||
    ( The meaning of these Guru Vaakas is: isn’t it a fact that we hear that after birth, after spending some time here, we have to leave to face the Lord as no one ever stayed here? Haven’t we heard it?)

    ਨਾਨਕ ਸੁਤੀ ਪੇਈਐ ਜਾਣੁ ਵਿਰਤੀ ਸੰਨਿ
    Nānak suṯī pe▫ī▫ai jāṇ virṯī sann.
    O Nanak, know that she who sleeps in her parents' home is plundered in broad daylight. ( In slumber of Maya, soul is being robbed of virtues and time to meditate on the Lord)

    ਗੁਣਾ ਗਵਾਈ ਗੰਠੜੀ ਅਵਗਣ ਚਲੀ ਬੰਨਿ ੨੪
    Guṇā gavā▫ī ganṯẖ▫ṛī avgaṇ cẖalī bann. ||4||24||
    She has lost her bouquet of merits; gathering one of demerits, she departs. ||4||24||( One remains involved in Maya and deeds are done of low quality in Maya love, then the Death grabs and what soul has to present?)
     
    #2 pk70, Dec 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  4. JimRinX

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    Yes, my good ji, loosing oneself in the prusuit of the deceptive pleasures of Maya can be a Bad Thing; but after you die and your book of life is read, you may discover that such pleasures were the closest thing that you'd ever known - in your Mortal Life - to the Nirvana that you will, in the Bardo, be experiencing - at least during the duration of said mortal lifetime - for the first time in your memory.
    This is why I disagree with those who are too Socially Conservative; as they would have us live our lives without these pleasures, and that causes people to become bitter and evil minded - just as a lack of proper perspective vis-a-vis Women, Sex, Hashish, etc., can lead one to become irresponsible in that they spend too much effort in the pursuit of this kind of 'false' happiness.
    Lying in the rams of your Loved One - your special one - is, for many people, as close as they will come to knowing Nirvana - as a Mortal; therefore, it should be encouraged - but only after they've been indoctrinated with the preceeding precautionary knowledge!!!
    Don't cave in - if your in America - to the 'Conservatives'; you, and your Sikh belief system (including it's very un-Catholic Sexual P.O.V.), are beautiful; while most of these who would challenge you - who would take advantage of your desire to appear proprietous - are mostly a bunch of hypocrits.
    Love. Your American Friend; JimRinX :D
     
  5. pk70

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    Enlightened ones experienced eternal happiness, the people,deep down in the quagmire of so called momentarily pleasures, fell on their feet to be saved; it is not a story of one religion but all. Where ever enlightened ones asked people to stay on a track, there were always those who remained enveloped in their bragging achievements.. Without having that enlightened experience, one is free to bark at the wind:)
     
  6. spnadmin

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    pk70 Veer ji,

    I want to remember this message. There will be many other times on the forum when it needs to be said. It says so much that is true. :)

    JimRinX ji,

    My appreciation of pk70 ji's remark does not imply that I disagree with you. In fact, you are creating a zone of compassion and tolerance for ordinary people who may not have come to that threshold where awareness peers through the clouds of mind. It is a balancing act -- to know what detachments and discernments we are impelled to choose for ourselves as individuals; and to know that others must be allowed to live their lives without harsh moral review. For me both ways are extremely difficult. My inability to find this balance is my greatest deficiency as a human being. I am not a Buddhist, but it is true that in the Tibetan school the greater vehicle is to hold one's personal salvation in abeyance in both life and in death in order to help others to achieve their spiritual destiny. That is the ultimate act of compassion. Perhaps the urge for compassion is what you are expressing in your remarks.
     
  7. JimRinX

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    Dear: aaad002 (a.k.a.: Antonia, if I recall correctly)
    Thank You for the caring response; as I seem to - once again - have been accused of having a less than humble, object obssessed, attitude problem.
    Perhaps this is so; the fact is that a group of Christians has interfered with my Disability Process (I have a Painful Neuropathy) to get me labeled Mentally Ill, instead.
    This has happened because they are Religeous Fascists - with a friend in the White House who is willing to humor them, to the point of allowing them to Violate my Rights in several ways, so as to maitain their support (they are the 20% who still 'like W').
    While I do consider myself a Buddhist (though, maybe, I should be a Sikh), I seem to defy most 'definitions'; but then you know that I got my primary beliefs from 'the source' - and The Lord IS Beautiful; which is why I'm attracted to Sikhism - and any other beliefs systems that seem to agree with what I was shown.
    My problem is, and the Christian Right is stirring up trouble for me here - in all sectors, perhaps even amongst Sikhs - that THEY think that I THINK that I'm "Jesus".
    While I feel Lucky for my Spiritual Journey - and what The Lord showed me about 'Life, The Universe, and Everything' (love Douglas Adams!); I've have been made to regret ever speaking of it - so please excuse me if I sound like I'm bragging or bitching; in the former case - NEVER, I just care and want to share, and in the latter case YES I am bitching!
    Please don't let anyone fool you; I'm not an Acid Head - or Crazy (or a Cultist), I'm not looking for Disciples or to found a New Kingdom of God; I'm simply under attack by The Christian Right - and I'm quite bitter about it, as I loved my Country before they threw out our Constitution - in my case, at least - in an effort to shut me up.
    I guess my statements about Maya derive from the fact that I've been hassled by Catholic Women about Pre-Marital Sex - which though it is actually O.K., under mutually respectful circumstances, with God; I've had such women screech at me that "They hate their Husbands, they don't know what an Orgasm is, they only had Sex because the Bible said thatt they had to."
    Now do you understand me better? These people a SINNERS, they want others to repeat their same mistakes - in 'Gods' name - when, in fact, they are bitter, evil people who are using Gid to force other people to be miserable, too! Misery loves company, they say.
    I guess that I'm just trying to express to Forum Members taht they should not be like these so-called Christians. I'm NOT saying that you should be - or that I am - deluded by the Mortal Pleasures; as the path to True Enlightenment does indeed lie elsewhere.
    Please, if the rumors have reached the SPN, know that I suffer Pain; that I'm not a 'Druggie' who "took Acid and saw an Aura" (that's what they told the Monks at my Temple!); my experience was Real - and I'd be doing us all a diservice by not sharing it with like minds.
    I did, after all, promise the Being that 'instantly' caused my hair to turn white - in a narrow streak above and between my eyes (during Meditation) that I'd share It's Gift to Me with all who would listen.
    Please don't consider me unhumble for fulfilling this obligation. After all; can YOU - or even a Scientist at CERN - cause a Physiological Change like that?
     
  8. spnadmin

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    JimRinX ji

    I am myself negative, critical and judgmental even when my better nature tries to stop me. Every night when I take account of my actions and my emotions there are too many examples where I have failed. When people on the forum seem narrow controlling and mean-spirited always remember that these expressions come from fear. That is the whole story. Fear in life and Fear of death. And when we let the SatGuru release us from our burdens that ends. But few have reached that level.

    As long as you are a member who is not someone who deals in hatred nothing will happen to you. No "stories" are going to reach us. So please relax and find your place in dharma.

    Sat Nam :)
     
  9. pk70

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    jimRinX Ji

    My apologies ji if you have felt that way. My statement is not about judging you but to express a truth in context of spiritual success and the commotion some create due to lack of spiritual experience.
    My heartily prayers for you in all aspects, forgive me if you are offended in any way
     
  10. Saint Soldier

    Saint Soldier
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    Sat shri akal,:D

    wow! Forum philosophy:rofl!!::thumbup:
     
  11. pk70

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    Kindly elaborate how one becomes controlling and mean spirited if disagreement is expressed. Blaming always others than accepting opposite views itself represents not much positive.
     
  12. spnadmin

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    Pk70 ji

    I think I started something I did not intend to start. My words were not directed against you nor do I think JimRinX was specifically referring to you. He was speaking generally about narrow-mindedness in religious circles. I was saying that sometimes that happens here too at SPN. Wherever it happens we have to understand that people are not perfect.

    Sainty ji -- What is your point about forum philosophy? You see something humorous and what I see is misunderstanding. Thanks for any explanation that you can give.

    Antonia
     
  13. pk70

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    No aad Bhain jio,
    It is not you, it is just some thing within we mortal harbor, when we face the truth, we just stagger, the first reaction is to blame others,Who feel like wise, join the club. You have done nothing, said nothing, in this context only your post stands intact in fairness.
    :yes:
     
  14. spnadmin

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    pk70 ji

    Thank you. You have expressed the view much better than I did.
     
  15. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    I'm confused about this duality thing. Can someone please shed some light on this.
    There are two shabads which seem to contradict each other.

    Shabad No.1

    Sabh Kich Ghar Mein Bahar Nahi
    Bahar Dhundai to Bharam Bhulayee.

    Everything is within the self, nothing is outside.
    We are deluded if we attempt to find Him from the outside.

    Shabad No.2

    Eh Jag Sache Ki Hai Kothree
    Sache Ka Vich Vaas

    This world is the home of the True One
    The True One resides within his creation.

    :hmm:
     
  16. pk70

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    I'm confused about this duality thing. Can someone please shed some light on this.
    There are two shabads which seem to contradict each other.(quote namjapji)

    Shabad No.1

    Sabh Kich Ghar Mein Bahar Nahi
    Bahar Dhundai to Bharam Bhulayee.


    Everything is within the self, nothing is outside.
    We are deluded if we attempt to find Him from the outside
    .

    Namjap ji, how come you think these two Guru vakas have any thing to do with duality?
    In them two different aspects are addressed
    In the first one, Guru is addressing those who leave themselves within as they are but start looking the Lord in Mosques, Mandirs, Gurduwaras, on pilgrimage-sites and Jungles. Advice is this that the all pervading Lord can be found within. Hint is that if we first look at our own mind, mold it in Lord’s love, His existence will be felt, if that occurs, “every thing within experience” materializes.

    Shabad No.2

    Eh Jag Sache Ki Hai Kothree
    Sache Ka Vich Vaas

    this world is the home of the True One
    The True One resides within his creation.

    In the above Guru Vaak, Guru ji is elaborating “The Lord and His existence in His creation”, all the world is His and He permeates in it. However, it doesn’t mean He can be found outside, if you try, where is that special place? There is none. He is realized within. Looking for Him on different places is ignorance; His realization still comes through within if one reaches to that state of mind. As said earlier, this Guru Vaak expresses His infinite nature contrary to what you have figured out.
    Duality word in Gurbani expresses the divided love of the mortals; advice is to love only the one Lord instead of knocking numerous doors in frustration, in love, if duality exists, it takes away the merit of love.:)
     
  17. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Pk70 Ji, thanks for your attempt. This earth and physical universe is His residence
    and this physical creation is subject to change and dissolution. It is also known as
    a lesser reality or Maya. Because it is impermanent. It can be compared with
    Einstein's theory of Relativity - there are as many realities as are its observers.
    Eh Jag Sache Ki Hai Kothree - please explain further.
     
  18. pk70

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    ਮਹਲਾ ਇਹੁ ਜਗੁ ਸਚੈ ਕੀ ਹੈ ਕੋਠੜੀ ਸਚੇ ਕਾ ਵਿਚਿ ਵਾਸੁ ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਸਮਾਇ ਲਏ ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਹੁਕਮੇ ਕਰੇ ਵਿਣਾਸੁ ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਭਾਣੈ ਕਢਿ ਲਏ ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਚਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਏਵ ਭਿ ਆਖਿ ਜਾਪਈ ਜਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਆਣੇ ਰਾਸਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਆਪਿ ਕਰੇ ਪਰਗਾਸੁ
    2nd Guru. This world is the True Lord's chamber and within it is the abode of the True One. Some, by His order, He absorbs in Himself, and some, by His order, He destroys. Some at His pleasure, He withdraws from mammon, and others He causes to abide therein. This too cannot be said, as to whom He will reclaim. Nanak, he alone is known to be Guru-ward unto whom the Lord reveals Himself.
    In this Sloka Guru ji first expresses the Lord and His relation with His creation meaning He permeates in it, its all about His eternity and infinite control. Next he states Lord’s Will. As He wills He takes some back into Him and others remain in cycle where destruction and creation is in process. Right here as we witness, there are some people who, as per His Will, remain imbued with Him and there are others who stay glued to Maya. Next Vaak is very important to understand His Will; Guru says that literally no one can tell who is going to be put on right path by Him. Guru says that whom HE reveals Himself is a true Guru follower. This statement fortifies the stress on “GUR PARSAAD” It also should be considered as a measure of progression we claim to do in on spiritual path.
     
  19. Astroboy

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    PK70 Ji,

    So far so good.

    Shabad No.1

    Sabh Kich Ghar Mein Bahar Nahi
    Bahar Dhundai to Bharam Bhulayee.

    We have discussed about Creation, dissolution, His Hukam and His Grace.

    So now when we are to find him with His Grace, we have to do it from within ourselves
    because without the observer there can be no universe. Therefore, what we are
    observing as outside ourselves is a projection from our inner vision. So it is, as without
    our observation there is no projection thus reality is in the inner and not the outer.
    We ourselves are the reality who project an illusion-like physical universe outside ourselves.
    Please comment.

     
  20. pk70

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  21. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Good attempt, PK70 Ji. Thank you. You know while reading SGGS (sehaj paath)
    I have come to realize many things which in the past never occured to me to be true.
    It is like trying everything else except actually reading SGGS - a whole 30 fruitless years
    just past by. And now I face the beautiful wisdom of SGGS which surpasses all other knowledge.
    But at times, those ego-supported theories do take the better of me and cause me birha again.
     

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