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No Punjabi in Punjab?

Discussion in 'Punjab, Punjabi, Punjabiyat' started by princess kaur, Sep 4, 2011.

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  1. princess kaur

    princess kaur
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    punjabi being our mother tongue is missing from punjab especially from urban areas, the attitude towards punjabi is changing. new generation even does not know that punjabi is our mother tongue.
    according to peoples now a days punjabi speaking person is having low standard and pendu (this is practically seen by me)

    families stop their infants not to learn and speak punjabi.

    hindi is overtaking punjabi at very fast speed. even sikhs now stop their children from speaking punjabi.

    some pretend that they dont know the language this is the case with my many such friends.

    language is the weapon that bind the people of the community or the state and represent their state outside punjab.
     
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  3. OSingh

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    In the west, it will be Gursikh's that will make efforts to promote Gurmukhi script and Panjabi language, because without Gurmukhi one cannot read bani.

    The next generation of Sikhs are rapidly losing the ability to speak Panjabi let alone read and write. My cousin who arrived from India noted that young Sikh's here in UK cannot converse in Panjabi and speak only in English whether they be monai or Kesdhari.

    The young generation in the West make no attempt to converse in Panjabi among themeselves, only when they have to, if they themseleves cannot speak Panjabi its unlikely their kids will speak Panjabi.

    So in the west and in Panjab, our ma boli (mother tongue) is declining rapidly, my cousins in Panjab speak Hindi and thier kids speak Panjabi, its a crazy situation. However in the pind (village) everybody, including kids still speak Panjabi. The main problem is in the shaer (city) areas of Panjab. They think Hindi is cooler, higher class than Panjabi, Fools!

    The only way to keep the fire of Gurmukh and Panjabi burning is to learn Gurmukhi script, read Panjabi books and speak Panjabi among ourselves. Satguru Mehar Karan.

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
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  4. aristotle

    aristotle
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    The situation is dismal, but certainly, not such that it cannot be reversed. Punjabi is very much an urban language, if you were to compare it with the European languages. The ridiculous thing is that, the Punjabi scholars have been constantly targeting English as the culprit, when the real danger is from Hindi. Many dont even know that Hindi is not the national language, just the medium of Government instruction (alongwith English) as the Constitution of India clearly states.
    :interestedsingh:
     
  5. Ishna

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    What a shame it would be to lose Panjabi language. It would be like Latin to the Catholics.. German to the Amish (their Bible's are all German and not many can understand it).. Hebrew to the Jews... Punjabi to the Sikhs...
     
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  6. princess kaur

    princess kaur
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    situation is worse!! in urban areas schools are also hindu oriented and students only speak hindi.........according to them dis is pendu languge and we dont like it.....and they say in their family no one speak this lang......dont know where dis situation will lead to...?????
     
  7. singh is king

    singh is king Australia
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    In private schools of Punjab it is compulsory to be speaking in english. In some schools students who speak in any other language than english have to pay fine. I saw in Chandigarh employees of a pvt ltd company speaks only english at work. Sorry, but its true that English is an official language at SPN as well. Including SPN every institute/Company justifies one reason or another.
    for whatever reason, Whenever any Gurmukh says not to communicate in Gurmukhi, it really hurts me a lot. :angryyoungsingh:
     
  8. Ishna

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    Singh is king ji

    It would be a shame for those who can't communicate in Punjabi or read Gurmukhi to not have access to the profound spiritual wisdom within Sikhi. I am very thankful SPN is an English forum.

    But you do make a good point, and it raises the question of what the future can be for the Punjabi language? I know it sounds like a silly question, but what is the reason to keep the Punjabi language?

    I am personally trying to learn Punjabi so I can understand what Punjabi-speakers have to say about Sikhi. But as more of them learn English, will it even be necessary for anyone else to learn Punjabi?
     
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  9. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Bhenji,

    I suppose a good reason to learn would be so that one is able to understand the content of SGGS without third party translation.
     
  10. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    English is very much demanded in private companies.If you don't know english then no private company will give you job no matter how good your technical skills are
    .The kids that grow up learning in Hindi or other regional medium school end up saying that non english medium school has ruined their life,so English learning is must for future.

    The problem of Punjabi is that it has become language of local businessmen ,drivers who use it in abusive manner.Punjabi is more used in abusing than talking in respectable manner
     
  11. Ishna

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    Harry ji

    Yes, that is a good reason to learn, however I am told our dear SGGS is written in Ye Olde Punjabi, and modern Punjabi speaking people need a translation of it into modern Punjabi!

    Is it possible to learn the language of SGGS without learning modern Punjabi?

    Even so, it relegates Punjabi to religious language (and for angry courier drivers, haha). When learning spiritual truths is hard enough, who is going to bother to learn an entire "dead" language just to read the scripture they could read in English (at the loss of some scriptural integrity)?

    Obviously those interested in Naad / sacred sound will always pursue the Punjabi words for their sound vibration. However, this runs the risk of "magic mantras", with the emphasis on the sound and not the message.

    I just worry, it's already happened that other religions have lost the language of their original text, and I'm sure that changes the message. But then, language evolves, scriptures evolve, so maybe it's just natural. Should we be emotionally attached to a language?

    I've got monkey-mind again... need more gurbananas.
     
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  12. Arvind

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    Veer ji, SPN has English for a reason. Audience from all around the world comes here, and most of the times they are not from Punjabi background. Limiting the discussions to Punjabi wont help such seekers. In fact, going one step further, I am totally in favor of translating the Punjabi books and literature to other languages including English, to make them reach more and more audience. This doesn't indicate, in any way, that we Gurbani lovers have any lesser respect and love for our own language :singhbhangra:

    Warm Regards.
     
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  13. rajneesh madhok

    rajneesh madhok India
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    Now I come to the track from which Sri Guru Granth Sahib or Adi Sri Granth Sahib ji, the granth is also called as Adi Granth or Adi Guru Darbar, which is called the scripture of the sikhs, and every sikh treat this Granth in other words this holy book as their living Guru. The said Granth is in the language which has actually been spoken by Gurus. The text in which the Granth is written is a script called Gurmukhi literally it may be called From the Guru's mouth, which is considered a modern development of the ancient language called SANSKRIT. Though Sri Guru Granth Sahib is written in Gurmukhi script but he shabads were written in many different languages including Punjabi, Sanskrit and Persian.
    If this is the fact then why the discrimination with SANSKRIT AND HINDI. Why the Punjab Government wants to get the SANSKRIT language eloped.
    Regards,
    Rajneesh Madhok
     
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  14. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Rajneesh Ji,
    imho Hindi and sanskrit are very well treated in PUNJAB...much much more than in Tamil nadu !! IN Tamil Nadu they BURN "HINDI" as Punjabis burn "newly wed BRIDES"...IN Tamil nadu Road signs in HINDI.. Govt Institution Hospital etc signboards in HINDI..are as rare as birds milk....compared to PUNJAB....thousands all over...Tamil nadu is just as apart of India as is PUNJAB...but we seldom see any Hindi supporters making a fuss over this lack of Hindi in Tamil nadu....and isnt it true that almost 80% of Civil servants in DELHI and in Embassies abroad are from the SOUTH...the Indian Embassy in malaysia is almost 99.9% Tamil staff....
     
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  15. Tejwant Singh

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    I learnt Punjabi, Hindi, English and Sanskrit at school in Ferozepore, Punjab. Let's not forget that no one speaks Sanskrit nor Latin. BTW,Sanskrit has the same verb conjugation as Latin does in case people did not know about that. Both these languages are used in religious affairs and are not comprehended by the lay people. So, they lack any real connection to the understanding of the scriptures which can be put into practice. They are more used in a ritualistic manner.

    Ishna ji writes:

    Ishna ji,

    All the languages you have mentioned above have their own alphabets.

    According to National Geographic, every 14 days a language dies.

    http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/travel/enduring-voices/

    I do not know whether you are aware of it or not that Punjabi was only a spoken/oral language. It was written in Hindi, Urdu, Pashto, Arabic and Farsi alphabets. It became a hodge podge in each language it was written in.

    If it were not for the Gurmukhi script created by our Gurus, it would have been long disappeared into oblivion. So, its preservation and usage is of utmost importance.

    Having said that, SGGS, our only Guru, should be translated in an understandable English and other languages which it is not at the moment.

    The universal message of Sikhi can not become universal if it is only confined to one language.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  16. rajneesh madhok

    rajneesh madhok India
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    Gyaniji,
    Kindly come to the point. Punjabi language can be understood not more than 1% population of India. We come to the point suppose a person from any other state come to Punjab or a person from Punjab goes beyond (Sarhind--- the part of Punjab) one needs a common language to communicate between the public. Suppose our children don't conversate in Hindi and English and they should conversate in Punjabi language only. Kindly let me know the prospects of those children on Career point of view. Can they compete in All India level competition or Can they compete eg USMLE (United States Medical Licensing Examination) or GRE Graduate Record Examination, CAT, GMAT, GPAT, GATE. All these tests those are being conducted at All India Level, In those tests we need the proficiency in All India level Language of HINDI and English. That is the reason that most of the urban population want that their children should communicate in Hindi, English besides Punjabi. We should not be so adamant to the language in which we communicate. If we keep on stressing that the Punjabi should be the language in communication, that will be harmful for the coming generation. It is Bigotry, that we are not doing favour to the community but we are obstinately or intolerantly devoted to our opinions and prejudices. You would have listened the proverb in Hindi "Aasman se gire khajoor mein atke " Letral meaning that Fell from the sky, got stuck in a date palm. ----Translation- From the frying pan into the fire. If we keep on dictating that the children should communicate in particular language only then the above mentioned proverb will be applicable and we will sow rotten seeds for our children. To avoid that stage almost 90% families living in Urban areas in Punjab used to conversate in Hindi because everybody knows "Ab pachtay hot kya jab chidiya chug gaii khet" There is no use crying over something that has already finished. If we keep on advocating and making unnecessary lecture on the language then it will be like Bahins ke aage been bajana " Litterally Reading Bhagvad Geet (Hindu holy book ) to a buffalo (is a waste) Translation: Tailor your speech to your audience. So we should keep one thing in consideration "Nhaate dhote reh gaye muh te makhi bai gayi, "Got nothing after so much hullaabaloo. So, kindly don't stress on language only but the stress on the teachings should be made. If we keep on preaching in favour of Punjabi language then our children will lag behind in competition.
    Regards,
    Rajneesh Madhok.
    Regarding Tamil nadu and Kerala, it should be in your kind knowlege that the Tamilians and Keralites are stressing that their children should learn Hindi language as Hindi is the National language and one can communicate in Hindi all over India on this language basis. Even in rural areas. We can't communicate on the basis of any other language on all India basis.
     
  17. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Rajneesh Ji,
    I have travelled Punjab extensivley...every school has HINDI...I check the Exam papers..each student from PRIMARY onwards has HINDI and most times the marks in HINDI are above those in PUNJABI. Almost ALL Private Schools curriculum is in HINDI/ENGLISH...Punjabi is merely a SUBJECT and Gurbani is not taught in any except the religious schools. 99% of SIKHS and Punjabis in Chandigarh Delhi and other Urban centres speak and write only HINDI/slight English but NIL Punjabi. Almost ALL the ILLEGALS from Punjab cna write/speak only in HINDI..although they are SIKH and so they Cannot seek employment in Gurdwaras, Punjabi Schools etc in MALAYSIA !! they regret they never learnt any Punjabi becasue its due to HINDI they have to work as Labourers.
    Such do cut BOTH ways..in India they could have got a job due to HINDI..BUT they DIDNT..and thats whyt ehy are ILLEGALLY in Malaysia...and over here PUNJABIS appreciate only PUNJABI !! so these Punjabis are as they say''dhobe de kutteh..na ghar de na ghaat de.. I have nothing against ANY Language...and i am no bigot...BUT I learnt Punjabi at my mums knee and I made sure my kids and their kids after that will learn PUNJABI as MOTHER Language..and then ENGLISH..HINDI..FRENCH..Mandarin..in that order. I REFRET very much that i never learnt HINDI...as I miss out a lot due to that oversight....also I shoudl haev learnt FARSEE and URDU from my dad...as I fail to appreciate Bhai Nand Lala Goya..and URDU from Pakistan....a great LOSS.
     
  18. rajneesh madhok

    rajneesh madhok India
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    Gyaniji,
    In 2008 the Punjab Government had issued an ordinance on Punjabi language as compulsory language in schools and degree colleges in all humanities like B.Sc, B.Com and B.A. The student who has failed in Punjabi in matriculation exam conducted by Punjab School Education Board is decalred failed, and if he/ she has passed in Punjabi subject even if he/she has failed in all the subjects like Maths, Science, English, Social Studies and other humanities subjects he/ she is declared Passed. This is the notification. Secondly the official communication in Punjab as per notification is in Punjabi language. The Government implemented this decision and the public those have to file the suit against the State Government up to Supreme court got harassed by getting the translation of the documents and then got that translation verified and attested from the officials not less than Gazetted Officer.
    Every citizen who submit Affidavit should be accepted but the offiicals to harass the public firstly issue the certificates, information and then one has to run from pillar to post to get that translated in English language. Got verified and attested from the Gazetted officers. In most of the court cases one can not understand the language in which the Registration Deed has been made. The most of the words typed in Punjabi language are Persian language words, but we people are supporting that the language in which it has been written is in Punjabi.
    Now come to the point, in court cases how many people those understand Punjabi very well has the capacity to understand the official language. We come to the point that if you seek any information from Local Government department. The reply will be in punjabi language ss2 vikhe jankari milegi. is baare maal vibhag ko jaankari milegi. Now every body will be confused what is ss2 (sthanik sarkar 2) what is this. Sthanik Sarkar 2 means the office of Principal Secretary Local Government. Why not the reply been given in the language understandable by the public. In punjabi pramukh saktar will be written. What is Parmukh sakktar, Whether it is Chief Secretary, Secretary, Prinicipal Secretary, Parliamentary Secretary, Financial Secretary, Adminsitrative Secretary, Additional Secretary, Joint Secretary, Director, Additional Director, Under Secretary, The addresses of the Directors and the Secretaries are different. The Department will not give you the address of the said official. You keep on wandering. Now suppose you want any information and from Punjab State Power corporation Ltd. You can not find the official address to whom the application is to be addressed. The reply you get in case will not be in your knowledge that if you want clarification, who has written that letter.
    Why not the official working made in English. Because if it is in English then all the ommissions and commission of the officials are being checked, but in case of Punjabi they people shield in a very dramatic way that you can find the solution.
    Regards,
    Rajneesh
     
  19. dalbirk

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    Rajneesh Ji ,
    I travel all over India for my business . There is not even an iota of Hindi in Gujarat , Maharashtra (except Mumbai ) , Karnataka , Andhra , Kerala , TN , Bengal , Assam , Orrisa & all Eastern States . I fail to understand why this Hindi love is RESERVED for Punjabi speaking state of Punjab only . Is it because the Punjabi is considered as the language of the OTHER people ie Sikhs only by a section of Punjabis .
     
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  20. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Rajneesh Ji,
    Punjabi was the LAST state to get its state minus the Capital, waters, dams etc.
    Can you elaborate what the situation in the other states like Maharshtra, Gujrat, Kerala, Orissa, Bengal etc. Do they have compulsory mother tongue ? Do they issue all Govt directives etc in ENGLISH ? What percentage of local langiuage in daily govt business/administration.
    IN MALAYSIA..its been Offcial policy that any child who FAILS in Malay language FAILS the entire Examination even if he scores Straight A's in all 9-18 subjects. He will be not given ajob, no university/college entrance, no govt aid of any kind.Malay is the language of the Majority Malays (60%) while others constitute 40% of the population...ENGLISH is merely a Single SUBJECT and English Literature as a subject is discouraged by lack of teachers. RECENTLY my son travelled to FRANCE...every single sign is in FRENCH..they dotn even SERVE YOU in the restaurant if you cannot speak FRENCH. In Canada there are FRENCH PROVINCES..side by side with English Canada...
    In my book a Person who disowns, disparages, goes against his own MOTHER TONGUE..is beynd description ( i am too polite to use the words i want ) Nations and Kaums who disown their MOTHER TONGUE die. PUNJABI is FLOURISHING in CANADA..UK etc...in fact parts of Canada look more like PUNJAB than Punjab itself....Vancouver has more street signs in PUNJABI than any Punjab town or Chandigarh. PUNJABI is being promoted in universities and schools in the WEST more than in Punjab.and as far as I am concerned that makes me very happy.
     
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  21. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    WELL SAID Dalbir ji. Exactly my point. Only the PUNJABI HINDUS and owners of the Mahasha Press like Jagbaani etc hate PUNJABI thorugh and through even they live in Punjab and drink its waters. Every Bengali LOVES BENGALI..doesnt matter if he is Pakistani/bangladeshi/Hindu or Muslim..they LOVE BEBGALI 110%..same goes for the Gujjus of Gujraat, marathas tamils etc etc..the ONLY exception are Punjabi Aryasamajii HINDUS. what a sorry state of affairs these sons of punjab have created by their attitude.
     
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