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Mixed-Race Relationships And The Damage They Can Cause

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Bubaladee, Feb 26, 2006.

  1. Bubaladee

    Bubaladee
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    Hi everyone, as you may see from the title my problem can seem pretty simple. Three years ago i met my husband, Manj as i'll call him, has always been a hardworkimg bloke, the youngest of three sons from an indian family that had set up home here in the 60's the whole family are proud sikhs and have sucssessful businesses, are extremly hardworking. Thats where the nice story ends, you see i went to work for the family a few years back i just hit thirty had been divorced for year and had four kids to look after, so thats what i did. The family praised me for my family values and would often invite me into their home with the children, as it turn out i spent more and more time with the youngest son, in fact his mother would often ask me to guide them onto a good path, a good family path, even though my marriage was ended they could see i am dedicated to my kids ands traditional home values. I hepled the middle brother set up his new business, many an hour me and the two brothers would work long hours and them being the kind people they were, would feed my kids, or pick them up from school etc, in fact we all had a good relationship, often the older brothers wives would call me for advice or to go out shopping, as the two older brothers had arranged marriages and there wives had not long been in england, but the whole family trusted me with my sister-in-laws, often i have had to stay at home with them whilst there husbands were out on business, and cook with them, or they would teach me punjabi. This was all fine until we realise that me and manj were in love, even though i had four kids and he is 5 years younger than me, i could'nt let go. Don't ever think his attitude was ever that of just lust, he really meant it, we would met up after work, in laybys or at parks and talk of the day when we would one day tell the would we were together, so just to make sure, manj went to india for two weeks, and we both knew it was his turn to see the match maker, but we agreed that it was in the hands of god, and infact if it was just lust then he would be pointed in the way of true love ( eg his bride) so off he went and by the next day he was on the phone saying he just could'nt do it, we agreed that he should stay out there and tell the family when he came back. So we did, erm.... well there response was well erm...................well the fight continues, even though i converted to sikhism, and my children, even though i study punjabi everyday even though i cook from scratch just like his mother taught me, only this time i have to get the spices myself. No matter what i do they have never excepted me. I agreed to live with the family, i worked in there businesses for nothing, as a family member then when they found out they threatened to burn my house down, they kicked me out of my job, attacked me, emptied my husbands bank account , taken his passport and documents, they tryed bribing him with money when he refused they beat me up. i was spat at in a street in a well known part of london, because i was wearing a bhindi and holding my husbands hand. We are noe in sort of hiding, we have no money, as the family have made sure it is difficult for him to get a job, i mean what do you put on your c.v, i worked for my dad since i was 8 and have no qulifacations and he has no chance of a referance, coz its his dad. And of course they have all his i.d so we can't even prove he's British, let alone anything else. I mean the list is endless. but know we are waiting to move again, because the family kicked him out of his home, and we have tryed to struggle on, and we both agreed to keep our faith going stronger then ever. but the question i ask every sikh is when are you following religion and when are you following culture, because my understanding of sikhism, is that we must except everyone and allow them into our religion. In fact is that not the point that Guru Nanak makes when he intoduced Langar ( Free vegeterian food in temples) so to break the caste system, so prevelent in the 16th century, hold on, sorry to sound bitter but it seems no-one is listens to the scriptors, this is still going on in our present day 2006 and i'm in hiding from an indian family. We got married last year, on our own , we ask the family and community to help, but no-one did so we did it on our own. I'm now pregnant with our first child together. and we are very proud and he/she will have a good Punjabi name given by the temple, and he/she will be brought up in a good stable sikh home, regardless of weather the parents are red blue pink or back, we are all sikhs. one god

    Dee
     
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  3. thecoopes

    thecoopes
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    Dear Dee,

    When I read this I lament over the introverted mindset that religion engenders, while here on the Sikh forum I have seen that the majority of contributors appear to be reasonable and open minded to the beliefs of others.

    However as life teaches us, “You never know someone until you live with them!”
    I don’t want to think that Sikhism is no different than all other religions, that is nice words and thoughts but when tested in the cauldron of life it is no different than the other myopic beliefs that enslave men.

    I feel that atheism offers you a better path to travel; if God does exist do you honestly feel that any of the organized religions actually represent him?

    Commonsense flies in the face of religious devotion, as this not only directs the mind to the right course but it has no hidden agenda that corrupts the correct action one should take in any situation.

    Do your best to find a new life away from the chains of religiously organized peoples, if God sees you as an individual then as an individual worship him don’t look for approval from other men.
    Look at all the worlds religions, all are short sighted and intolerant.

    As it has been said. “ If there was no religion then evil men would do evil and good men would do good. But for good men to do evil you need religion.”

    You may have a tough few years ahead of you but the sooner you strike out and distance yourselves from both family and community the sooner you can build a new life that is not one shaped in the image of intolerance that has you jumping through hoops to please the whims of fools.


    Best wishes Dee.

    John
     
  4. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    dee your story is really a sad one.but your problem has nothing to do with sikhism.most of the sikhs do not follow sikhism properly and follow punjabi/indian culture.in typical indian culture it is very hard for family to accept a daughter in law who is divorced and have four kids.even if you are from a indian sikh family i don't think the family would have accepted you.this is the typical mentality of indian families whether they are hindus,sikhs,muslims or christians.
     
  5. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    Dear Dee,

    If your in laws are bounded by Sikh code ie Amritdhari or baptised then they can be subjetcted to prosecution on religeon ground which may mean boycott.

    First inform das about thier way of life ie do they keep 5ks and if yes you can forward thier adress and das can forward this thing to Singhs in UK who can meet them and take care of them.

    There are many asses in lion hide,so oppressor can not be Sikh and you are beter Sikh then them and you yourself are capable to kick them out of faith.

    Give more details and if possible by personal message but beter openly and we may try to fix the issue.

    But often in UK and in India they are more asian crap then being Sikhs and there are many non Asian beter Sikhs then Asian.

    Anyway sister in law(Brothers wife) of das is also russian but being Hindu Asian family we had no problem.Even we have good relation with native British aborgines converted to faith and more respect.

    Main thing is that did you contacted any Sikh institution in UK for your matter.you can put same post on tapoban.org and you will get good lots of help coming from there too.

    Das found two punjabi factors which are strong in your Sikh family.

    1. Bindi has more to with pagan culture then Sikhs
    2. Free kitchen is Vegitarians more for Punjabi then Sikhs as we can eat non veg also in our Gurudwaras but more in non Punjabis.

    So cher up ,it is more to do with Indian or Punjabi racial mind set and you are a beter Sikhs then them.

    Do not forget to furnish your details and das will try to send some Singh from London to help you.Das lives outside UK but had lived there and had he been there then could have visited you.

    We all are with yuo and do not feel afaird or Alone and fear not clumsy Asians,who are not at all Sikhs.
     
  6. Lionchild

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    [​IMG]

    Sister Bubaladee…

    I hope you are a little more settled down now that you have moved away from that You and your husband are very brave and at the same time setting a good example for the rest of us by doing something that shows that Waheguru shines light on all of us who strive to be better sikhs and person. You two are living example of the next generation of the sikh people, so move forward and don’t let people get in your way :wah:

    On a similar note: I think one of the main reasons why some people get upset over their son/daughter marrying a non-punjabi Sikh is that families/people are overly exposed to themselves and people of their own background/culture. Because some families have a tendency to keep a very close knit family, and have a network of very select friends, they have closed doors to new ideas and ways. As a result, when people from the “outside” try to enter the families “comfort zone” (that being family expectations, ideals), the results, as illustrated by Dee’s experience, can be somewhat negative and unpredictable. This is actually a very common problem in many culture/peoples, and for the most part, there really is no quick solution to solve this. It takes time, and patience – Bubaladee and her husband have shown a lot of this, and there fore should be greatly thanked.

    I have a suspicion that this is part of a greater problem within most of the punjab/sikh community. This isn’t the first time I heard about this, and probably not the last. There is a long term solution to this; however it will takes years for it to make a noticeable impact.

    In the end, this is most likely I strong sign of a people in trouble.

    -Bindy Bains
    (Formerly Khalsa Starr)
     
  7. rooh

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    Am really sorry to read about your plight but not in the least bit surprised. You talk about "sikhs", but most people who wear a turban and got to a gurdwara and perhaps even read the bani, are not real Sikhs in the true sense of the word. To be conferred with the title "Sikh" is not so easily attained. The mentality of so called Sikhs actually totally contradicts what the gurus taught and sacrificed so much for. Displaying outward symbols is not the same as living the teachings of the saints and gurus. True Sikhs are very few and far between. a rare species
     
  8. thecoopes

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    Dear friends, just an observation in respect to religion in general.

    Rooh said:
    QUOTE:
    Am really sorry to read about your plight but not in the least bit surprised. You talk about "sikhs", but most people who wear a turban and got to a gurdwara and perhaps even read the bani, are not real Sikhs in the true sense of the word. To be conferred with the title "Sikh" is not so easily attained. The mentality of so called Sikhs actually totally contradicts what the gurus taught and sacrificed so much for. Displaying outward symbols is not the same as living the teachings of the saints and gurus. True Sikhs are very few and far between. a rare species

    Now isn’t this what all religions say? Especially Muslims, It’s a sad fact that it appears that all religions are just a label, a club to divide mankind.

    The more devout an individual the more sanctimonious and pious that one is in their dealings with others. Religion when practiced to devotion does not bring out in people anything but intolerance and elitism!
     
  9. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    first of all coopes don't compare sikhism with islam.
    fanatic muslims beleive what they are doing is written in their relegious scriptures.and honestly speaking bad things are written in quran.according to islam meaning of brotherhood means brotherhood with other muslims.while in sikhism what sikhs are doing is not sanctioned in their relegious scriptures although various man made practices are introduced by some fanatics.if you study guru granth sahib it is the only relegious scripture in the world which promotes brotherhood between human beings

    now on your second question of religions dividing the humans.scientifc theories are also responsible for dividing humans.slave trade world wars had nothing to do with the religion infact hitler wants to prove that his aryan race is superior.infact ti is peaceful religions which control humans from doing crime

    it is human nature to divide whether it is religion, race or language to prove itself superior.from your
    posts it looks that you beleive humans should stop
    following religions because religions divide humans
    by this logic we should stop speaking because languages are also responsible for division
     
  10. thecoopes

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    Indeed you are correct in that there are many things that divide mankind, most of which are a corruption of their root purpose.
    The big difference with religion is this, above all of the structures of mankind’s existence religion stands alone as the reason for that existence, the one channel between God and Men.

    So this must be judged more heavily, I am on a quest to find if God exists, and if there is a God how does this one interact with mankind.

    Unfortunately every religion I examine is full of noble writings but none of the adherents as a body harmoniously reflect those qualities.

    It appears that as I have mentioned before, “There are good people and there are bad people, with or without religion those same people would be good and bad.”


    Best wishes

    john
     
  11. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    god just interact with humans through love and prayers which should be from heart not from brain.

    ??? ????? ???? ?????? ?
    naanak gaavee-ai gunee niDhaan.
    O Nanak, sing of the Lord, the Treasure of Excellence.


    ????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?
    ????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?
    gaavee-ai sunee-ai man rakhee-ai bhaa-o.
    Sing, and listen, and let your mind be filled with love.


    ???? ????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?
    ???? ????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?
    dukh parhar sukh ghar lai jaa-ay.
    Your pain shall be sent far away, and peace shall come to your home.
     
  12. Lionchild

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    You mean the people of the religion don't follow those qualities? :}:):

    Please explain :)
     
  13. Bubaladee

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    Thank you all your replies, some more constructive than others, i'd like to point out, that i did say, when are we following culture or religion, because in the Indian community i've found these can be some what confused.but thanks anyway.
    However i'm sorry to say that the situation has got worse.
    My mother-in -law arrived back from India a few days ago, and for some reason, she is making every effort to get on side with us. But nothing upsets me more, then anything, is the lack of support, me and my husband have approached everyone, the police, they said it was hearsay, and not much we can do,
    Benefits said they could help me as a single parent but not together, and if we are in danger then we would have to split our family and stay in different parts of the country. We have had no money since November, and bless her my own mum has been going shopping for us. My husband feels useless. He's always worked hard for the family and has done since he was 8. His family have totally distroyed us financially, infact our car is due to be reposessed, we are now in council accomodation. But we are still happy we are good sikhs, and i strongly believe that our time will come, when we will be settled.

    It just breaks my heart that due to what seems to be a good religion, has been twisted into a culture that rejects the very essence of its own religion. A good stable happy, honest hard working family, with good values, just like ourselves. I wish i could say that this is the end of it, but i know its not.

    Dee
     
  14. Lionchild

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    Don;t base your thought sand viewpoints of sikhi on people's culture. Culture and religion = 2 seperate things.

    I hope you get a better understanding of sikhi religion.

    -Bindy Bains
     
  15. Bubaladee

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    I too hope i learn to find a true understanding of sikhism, as i feel that along the way, people have lost sight of their true religion, and have adopted a culture instead. Infact when i was spat at in London it was in a place called Southall, the man that spat at me was a sikh, he was wearing his 5 k's, a middle aged man, in a turban, this jan 2006. Need i say anymore.
    I feel totally beaten by it all.
    In fact in the news papers last week, a very sad story about a young punjabi girl, who had an arranged marriage, but her mother was a divorcee, and her husbands family just could'nt get to grips with this, and the women became depressed, she went to a train station in london, with her two very young children, and she took her and her childrens life. She was 28 i think, her mother felt so guilty that she had forced her daughter into the marriage, she took her own life at southall train station two weeks ago. This has got to stop, i fear for the safety of my unborn child, we have already been threatened with kidnapp, i've been told never to step foot in India as i won't be coming back.
    For some this may sound like a cool gangster movie, for some, you may not want to believe this thing goes on, but its as real today as it was in the 16th century, when Guru Nanak, ask women to be equal to men, and our door should always be open for others. We have yet to find a place to belong.
    Until then i shall continue educating
    the local community, i use to have lots of funny looks and the kids on the streets would often ask, why i dress the way i do, so i decided to go into local schools and just talk to the children about Sikhism and the Indian culture, and just answer the questions, i don't know much, but what i do know has seemed to help others, its good fun. We live in the south west now, and our town is totally white, apart from my husband, so it stopped alot of idle gossip when i went into the school and explained!!!
    well i wish everyone was so open minded like the kids, our world would be a better place.
    Dee xx
     
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  16. Lionchild

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    Well i hope it works out for you and your family, yeah... i wish we could think more like children, more open minded :)
     
  17. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh
    With 5ks one does not become Sikh but with faith that God is in all.

    unfortunatrly there are some vegitarian so called Amritdhars in UK you are not at all nearest to Sikhism.

    To respected thecoopees Ji,

    In our faith also there are classes which are sonewhat like Orthodox(most libral),Catholic(some what les librals) and protestanats(hardly libral at all).

    Last two are the majority of Sikhs and are outcome of British rule in India and thier getting influneced by protestant Chrsitian ideolgy.


    Same people behold Sikhism like say Church of England so Sikhism is only Punjabi faith.

    But in those gropus also some libralism is creeping in.

    Then as far as our God is concern it is energy which makes matters and make actions in that matter.

    within and without.in us outside us.
     
  18. devinesanative

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    I think BELIEF , FAITH , COURAGE , INTEGRITY AND MATURITY are the 5 Ks that one has to wear rather than the mere physical objects .
     
  19. devinesanative

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    I would like to pose a question to the Intellectuals and Pious people :

    "Why some or most of the families create a illusive feel good environment around the Victim , which the outside world feels that the family is very good with him/her but in reality the family creates a hell for him/her to live, Even if the victim needs help no one helps him/her,saying its hearsay ?"
     
  20. thecoopes

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    Sorry for the time delay in replying.

    I Know that to generalise can be very simplistic and not a true representation.

    However that said, human frailties erode good intentions and the high qualities of any belief are at best just an outward show.

    So to answer only very few ever reach that ideal. 0.00000001%

    This is not cynical just a fact, otherwise the world would not be the S!***t place it is.:whisling:

    Best wishes

    John
     
  21. thecoopes

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    Ah, a true visionary.
    The true meaning of our beliefs not outward symbols but the control software of our lives.
     

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