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Metaphors From BIBLE

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by ravneet_sb, Jun 10, 2016.

  1. ravneet_sb

    ravneet_sb India
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    Jesus has been explaining to Nicodemus that He has come from heaven and has seen it. He also says that He is in heaven. He is present everywhere. The story He uses about Moses comes from Numbers 21:4-9. In this story, there was nothing a person who was bitten by the snakes could do to save themselves. God told Moses to put a snake on a pole. If they just looked, they would be saved.

    Arad Destroyed

    21 When the Canaanite king of Arad, who lived in the Negev, heard that Israel was coming along the road to Atharim, he attacked the Israelites and captured some of them. 2 Then Israel made this vow to the Lord: “If you will deliver these people into our hands, we will totally destroya]">[a] their cities.” 3 The Lord listened to Israel’s plea and gave the Canaanites over to them. They completely destroyed them and their towns; so the place was named Hormah.b]">[b]

    The Bronze Snake
    4 They traveled from Mount Hor along the route to the Red Sea,c]">[c] to go around Edom. But the people grew impatient on the way; 5 they spoke against God and against Moses, and said, “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? There is no bread! There is no water! And we detest this miserable food!”

    6 Then the Lord sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died. 7 The people came to Moses and said, “We sinned when we spoke against the Lord and against you. Pray that the Lord will take the snakes away from us.” So Moses prayed for the people.

    8 The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.

    The Journey to Moab
    10 The Israelites moved on and camped at Oboth. 11 Then they set out from Oboth and camped in Iye Abarim, in the wilderness that faces Moab toward the sunrise. 12 From there they moved on and camped in the Zered Valley. 13 They set out from there and camped alongside the Arnon, which is in the wilderness extending into Amorite territory. The Arnon is the border of Moab, between Moab and the Amorites. 14 That is why the Book of the Wars of the Lord says:

    “. . . Zahabd]">[d] in Suphah and the ravines,
    the Arnon 15 ande]">[e] the slopes of the ravines
    that lead to the settlement of Ar
    and lie along the border of Moab.”

    16 From there they continued on to Beer, the well where the Lord said to Moses, “Gather the people together and I will give them water.”

    17 Then Israel sang this song:

    “Spring up, O well!
    Sing about it,
    18 about the well that the princes dug,
    that the nobles of the people sank—
    the nobles with scepters and staffs.”

    Then they went from the wilderness to Mattanah, 19 from Mattanah to Nahaliel, from Nahaliel to Bamoth, 20 and from Bamoth to the valley in Moab where the top of Pisgah overlooks the wasteland.



    REVIEW

    Please forgive me if It appears to me as false notion to my mind. This is for review, comment or just reject thought how it comes to my mind.

    Number 21:4-9 appears to be metaphor, to make human mind understand.

    Evil is like a deadly snake, which kills humans. "God" or "NATURE" has give learning to make the snake appear to eyes before it kills, by making bronze icon.

    It is not the eye which actually see, it is just the instrument, actually its mind which makes the world
    visible through our eyes, but at first place, on shall have input to mind, before eyes can see.

    This is training the human mind

    For HUMANS to visualise EVIL through study or icon before it kills the human society,

    Focus is on creating an ICON of evil to make human mind understand, before it actually appears.

    Religion is about awareness of ones "OWN MIND" through "MIND AWARENESS"

    Before "one's MIND Learns" one must know how "MIND LEARNS"

    One must learn subject with "visual objective" otherwise subjective education is false education.

    Please correct my notion about the text.

    Waheguru Ji Da Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji KI Fateh
     
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  3. swarn bains

    swarn bains United States
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    made up stories to entice the ignorant, completely unable and out of context to guide on divine path to obtain divine knowledge
     
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  4. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    More from the Bible:

    From Genesis Story:

    Eating of the tree of knowledge = birth of the human race from animal instinct to advanced thought - but animals are closer linked to spiritual existence, so we give up that and become more individuals (duality).

    Punishment for Adam and Eve for eating the apple:

    Pain in childbirth = birth of the human race would come at a cost (even more than loss of spirituality) war, greed, etc are hardships (pains) experienced as a result of the birth of human kind into an advanced species.

    Snake = the quest for realization. The inner voice / drive that allowed humans to advance. "but if we gain knowledge we die... this loss of direct spiritual connection to God)" and the snake said, you will not die you will gain knowledge of God and the Universe. As a result, humans gained the capacity to ask the question "who am I and why am I here" and over time, in a fully conscious way, can then realize God (as an individual) remember only through duality can we realize this. They did die in a sense... spiritually... but we can regain this connection so the "snake" was right, we did not die after all. This could also be a metaphor for the fear that holds many cultures back... fear of change, fear of progress, and what will happen. Will the old ways die or will they surpass their old ways and learn things previously not known to them?
     
  5. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    Bible shows the path.
    It showed me the path and showed me that God is all loving and all knowing.
     
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  6. swarn bains

    swarn bains United States
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    I read genesis chapter of bible. the stories in it are absurd. firstly adam was born first but the science says that female was born first. every fetus is a female to begin with and some who become males change later on. secondly any prophet or a male in first few thousand years lived up to 3 hundred years and they married after the age of 150 years and then married to up to 150 females. it appears that a female the mother of all is a just a pawn to produce children. if that is godliness then so be it or anyone who proclaims so advise me. I fail to understand why those humilioated females still follow the bible.
    Test of the bible is a story book as well and it is like any other baat or story. but the real and direct godly path is not mentioned in it. it has western belief which does not understand the godly path. people who believe so it is their business but godly path is different that what bible advertises
     
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  7. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    That's an opinion that you are rightfully entitled to. However, we should always try in every way to not speak ill of other faiths. Most of the time it's because we cannot understand.
    Bains sahib ji, ..I'm not saying your opinion is correct and neither am I saying it is wrong, but I can give you a few little pointers that may make you view a little bit with a different light.

    The bible and most of the religions are full of metaphors and parables. It is foolish to think of them as real stories. This even refers to when phrases are used in the parable, un some context to make our awareness understand the degree of emotions, strength or 'feel' matter they are pointing at.....since these factors cannot be measured and documented. For example, when someone says that "God's temple is my ROCK when I need him to lean on" .....doesn't mean that a piece of rock is the temple of God? ...me and you both know that.

    I've looked at many parts of the bible and I have my own interpretations that help give me some understanding to what I may already know as per gurmat. Below, I will share part of my own opinions and interpretations that I wrote some time ago. I'm only going to stick with the genesis that you referred to..........

    For eg. there was no real Adam and Eve, but it talks about Adam being made in the image of God himself.

    This is the image of his formless consciousness. Then further it mentions that God clothed Adam with some skin, which gets interpreted as God gave clothes of animal skin to cover Adam.....This is actually about God giving a layer of skin to this very consciousness or soul that is itself a small fragment of God's image himself. It's the same analogy as "kapra" (cloth) used in gurbani to refer to skin of human body.

    NOTE that the word for "MAN" in indian is "AADMI"......this could very well come from the same "Adaam"

    Then we have duality of Eve or WO-MAN coming from Adam's chest. This is reference to how duality/opposite of the same image of man was created...For example, We have the Positive first in a circuit and the Negative comes as a dependant of this. In an Atom, we have +ve Protons in nucleus and the -ve electron numbers in orbit are dependent on the charge and bond formed between the positive. The change in electron numbers determines the power of the positive or negative charge of the atom.
    Same principle is in SHAKTI: SHIV,..... MASCULINE:FEMININE, ....YIN:YANG..etc. it's all about DUALITY and Dubida. ..SUN:MOON...Yogas IDA:INGLA.....and so on..


    Genesis has the serpent and eating the forbidden fruit from a tree

    In my personal opinion, this is also a very strong metaphor because the Tree references are to a "Tree of knowledge'' that provides all the gyaan to realise God and then there is the ''Tree of the Mind'', which of course is the tree that we get TEMPTED to eat from,the tree with Kaal's influence, the 5 dhuts, the worldly maya.. This is how gurbani differentiates between MAN-MUKH and GUR-MUKH... ie the one that eats fruit from the changing MIND's mouth or from the True GURU"S Mouth
    (tree of knowledge is also popular in quite a few other faiths such as amongst kaballah and jews...)

    It's also no surprise that I believe the Serpent itself is a metaphor for MAYA. The temptations of MAYA.
    In gurbani, there are numerous mentions of Maya the serpent. This Maya wraps and coils it's body around you, just like a snake does. And when one tries to fight and free themselves from the snake... what happens??
    ..... The snake just continues to grip even more tighter, virtually making the stranglehold very difficult to escape from...........MAYA does exactly the same thing in wrapping around you and making you dance around!.....it's all the play of maya!

    The above are just some ideas and interpretations that I gave some thought to. They are not to be evaluated as fact but you or anyone else may find it worthwhile to give a little consideration and try make some sense of the world prior to the arrival of Guru Nanak ji. :)

    I did some very in depth interpretations of other parts of the bible and I was no longer surprised when I say direct parallels and correlations with gurbani. I may feel like sharing some of those some other time.
     
    #6 Luckysingh, Jun 13, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  8. swarn bains

    swarn bains United States
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    good luck to you, but why try to read stories or so called metaphor when there are means to catch your ear with the closest hand rather than going around and catch your ear with opposite hand. I had bible once but not now show me anything which tells the direct path to divinity in bible. i will read it and give you my interpretation. Trying to learn from stories is old fashion way. read the story first and then derive your own meanings. the story of a snake in bible. a Sheppard came across a snake while grazing his herd. he had to kill it otherwise may be the snake would bite him. the orators or bible experts change the snake into a evil and the man who kills him is called good. why not to come across straight. The best thing i found in bible is the story goes and reaches a point of no solution, at that time the story takes a turn and it is called that God changed it and took it to the different path. God does not have to look after the bible stories only. he has many more things to do. According to bible God leaves everything else and comes to straighten the story in bible. sorry for this but it is the site for reality and direct destiny not stories. i can tell stories like that too. tell me the subject i will make ti up and i also ask God who will change path of my story if needed
     
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  9. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Lucky ji,

    Guru Fateh. Thanks for your candor.
     
  10. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    I thought this was an open forum for everyone, the SPN header welcomes everyone with "Recognize all Human race as one "
    On an "interfaith" subsection, with a title thread "Metaphors from Bible"...I contributed Exactly that.
    Instead, members find it entertaining to belittle and discredit other faiths on here. Not only that, they make it seem righteous to "judge" another belief or book about God, that may be respected and considered highly sacred by some other path.

    .
     
    #9 Luckysingh, Jun 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  11. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    Yes, Its fact, and it's the Truth.
    I also respect what everyone else considers to be their Truth, regardless of whether it falls in my line of belief or not.
     
  12. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    We live in a time where Sikhism is being infiltrated by aspects of other faiths, to some this is welcome, to some this is not so welcome, I personally feel that there is something different in Sikhism that makes it different to other faiths, in fact, the facet that I find most attractive about Sikhism is the lack of carrot and stick learning. We call ourselves adults, but it seems to me that a lot of us need to be treated like children, even now, I can browse a few Sikh forums and find plenty of content regarding ritual and ceremony and the need for validation from the rest of the community, the question 'how should I worship god in a way that is socially acceptable' seems to be common. As a Sikh I found my way deep in Sikhism, I am not a 'all roads lead to rome' kind of guy, I have respect for any and all other religions, even the order of holy nun worshipers, actually, especially the order of holy nun worshipers, but as a Sikh, there is a difference between respect and immersion, if it is the Bible that showed you the way. and if it is the Bible that showed you that god is loving and all knowing, then why are you not a Christian? Bearing in mind you are a senior member of this forum in terms of posts submitted and time spent here, do you not think you owe some responsibility to younger Sikhs who read your posts? Do you not think some might find this confusing? It would be easy to get the impression that one can follow aspects of any religion and still be a Sikh, as its all the same, again, I disagree, anyone can follow aspects of any religion and become enlightened, but not necessarily a Sikh.

    The SRM states the following

    :-
    Definition of Sikh
    A Sikh is defined as any person, male or female, who faithfully:

    • Believes in the existence of One Eternal God
    • Follows the teachings of, and accepts as their only Spiritual guides, the Guru Granth Sahib and the ten human Gurus
    • Believes in the baptism (Amrit Sanchar), as promoted by the tenth Guru
    • Does not owe allegiance to any other religion
    bearing in mind the bible showed you the path, I find it completely acceptable that your conflict of interest should be pointed out, how can you then define yourself as a Sikh?

    Am I questioning your Sikhi? absolutely not, I question your statement, how can the bible have shown you the path given the above?
     
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  13. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    How?
    Well, How can I show you, your reflection that only YOU can see, when you look in the Mirror?
    Also, You can't show me the same reflection of yourself either. When the mirror comes in front of me, then I only see me. I wont see the reflection that you saw, will I?
     
    #12 Luckysingh, Jun 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  14. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    if that is the answer you are going with, then that is fair enough, it does not really answer the question, to be honest, it does not really have anything to do with the question, but I am beginning to realise now that certain answers are given not due to lack of knowledge, but more to do with a reluctance to be honest, either with the questioner or even with yourself, but thanks for the answer anyway
     
  15. swarn bains

    swarn bains United States
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    when I read bible, i see what people used to do during older days. e.i. people sit on the logs and design stories and tell others but they used to be on the sport created stories. those stories used to end without any concrete result and guidance. bible is the same story book the Sheppard tell each other while grazing sheep with one exception. one of the story teller is very smart person he used to twist the story saying that God came and changed the course of the story and it took a new path. There were and are no persons in the western society who have divine knowledge except Moses. So they gave one more turn to those stories adding metaphor to it. They turn the story the same way and make it look like godly. if an open minded person reads bible the meanings are completely different than the priests pastors turn and twist it. It is not at all a spiritual book but the orator makes it to look like one. Because of financial position of the westerners it has become a religious book because there is nothing else. they also say the Christ is the only son of God, then what about you mr metaphor follower. Christ was an ordinary man. He went to India. Got into India from Pondichary and then stayed there for 16 years. If he learned anything it happened at a shrine (kidarnath) in India. watch the movie lost years of Christ. Same applies to whether a man was born first or a woman. watch the documentary why men have nipples. it is proof who was born first and who is first on conception.Sikh and Hindu religious scriptures say that all are the sons of God whether eighteen ten or twenty. Bible should not have any mental affect on the followers if it is not twisted with metaphor the same way as the smart Sheppard dictates it. if some one has been affected by it, he or she is hypnotized by metaphor like twisted words put forward by the pastors.
     
  16. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Christ was an ordinary man. He went to India. Got into India from Pondichary and then stayed there for 16 years. If he learned anything it happened at a shrine (kidarnath) in India.


     
  17. swarn bains

    swarn bains United States
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    i did not know that there are so many christians on this site. I believe there are no sikhs on christian site but i could be wrong
     
  18. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Isn't there a christian Sikh TV Channel?
     
  19. Tejwant Singh

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    There are some sikh turban wearing Christian pastors in India. There are some outside India too.
     

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